How hard would getting a SBC engine into a 966 be? Anyone done it before?

Well I have a line on a MINT turbo body, but no drivetrain. Its a steal of a deal. And when I price out new porsche parts to get it running the total is still under what a running car in the same condition would fetch, problem is, that amount is still higher then my budget. So I was thinking. I can get a LS6 engine (same one as the new vettes, 400hp, 400 ft lbs) for about the cost of the bolts on the Porsche turbo engine. I was quoted $27,000 for the turbo engine and transaxel. The LS6 with a supercharger on it would come in at around 12500. This is for a new engine, using almost new parts the cost would be around 8000 and the SBC infinitely cheaper to fix over the porsche. A supercharged LS6 will put more power down to the wheels then the turbo Porsche engine at the flywheel. So my only question is.... Will it fit? I'm not really interested in Porsche elitists saying I am ruining a great car or anything like that, I have gotten enough of that from local sources in trying to answer this question. If you have a big problem with it I will be more then happy to let you cover the difference between the Porsche and LS6 engine costs.

Size wise, it will fit, they are surprising compact due to lack of ohc. LS3/LS7 is lighter than TT engine and even the vanilla 3.4/3.6/3.8. You'll need to mount as far forward as possible to avoid cutting the rear cross member to clear belts, but you'll get that done. Mechanically, transaxle will be the biggest issue, as you'll need a 2WD G50 (G96 just won't work right, unless you have enough time and money for machining a lot of trial and error adapter plates, it's a long story). The big torque G50s are in low supply high demand, the highest torque rated G50s run 600+ ft/lbs in cars like the ultima. The LS6 + SC is overkill though, and the titanium con-rods are reputed to not handle boost, if you SC go to the newer LS3 (which is the same setup as ZR1) or just do the LS7 (427) if N/A. LS3 crate trim is 480hp/450tq before S/C, with S/C est. 650bhp no one has done this on a watercooled car to my knowledge, and if I had some major free time I would try just out of sheer curiosity, but since you are getting a shell you might be OK. probably new water pump, existing radiators if they come with the car (if not, do a rear radiator in a wing decklid). You'll need to figure out the reluctor for the starter, you'll manage though. Remember SBC mounts up differently than LSx, don't say SBC when ordering up parts or they won't fit! The big question is the DME. You need to find a way to get the GM engine management to coexist with the Porsche DME and immobiliser. You will eventually find a way to defeat everything and make this work, but the one word that will get in the way of this is "budget". You will be a pioneer here, and that means spending time with a race shop, esp on the DME/immobiliser etc. Now, if the car you are getting is truly, truly a shell, meaning no starter, no DME, nothing nothing, then you can try going all GM (starter/immobiliser/ECU). You'll lose the gauge cluster, airbags, PSM, probably ABS, who knows what else, I mean it's a major commitment. Email me/PM me, I'll refer you to a guy whom you should speak with

Guys put small block v8s in 914s, even Miata's, so I'm sure someone could figure out how to do it. I can't think of a way to get the power to the rear wheels if you leave the engine in the back though, but good luck. I would l love to see it or even some pictures if you succeed. How cheap is cheap on the rolling chassis? If you don't mind me asking. I will look for a url for a guy in FL who does v8 conversions. He is probably a good source, I just can't think of the name of his place right now

Thanks guys I think the link you are looking for smshirk is toy-jet.com but thats in an older body. And yes I know the LSx isnt the same as what most call an SBC (but its still a small block chevy :P and besides I come from Camaro's so I interchange it more then I should, lol). The LS3 gets up there in price, especially since used will be out of the question. LS6+SC is less money then the LS7. And seeing as the LS6 is in quite a few vehicles hardly used parts are easy to find to help with the cost. Also weight of the LS6 and LS7 are within a few lbs. The electrical is something I hadnt even considered. I would like to keep the airbags and stuff like that. I have ~8500 in my budget after the engine and car purchase price for the little things and the big things like the computers. The car is whole, but the transaxel and engine are gone. most accessories for the engine are there still too. The guy blew the engine with a bad choice of gear when down shifting, sent it and the transaxel out to be fixed, divorce happened, he couldnt pay the shop, shop sold engine to cover his bill. And the car has sat for 2 years. He now needs QUICK cash to prevent bankruptcy, so the price is low enough that I almost feel guilty. He is a friend of a friend and I am being given till the 2nd to have cash in hand or pass on it. Body has less then 14,000km on it. Lets just say parting out the interior and the wheels would almost get more.

Converting the GM ECU to the Porsche can be done at Fuel Injection Specialties here in San Antonio, TX for about $850. My Dad has had 2 done there with total success. They lay all the harnesses on a pin board and remove whatever components that will not be used in the Porsche. Then, they defeat parts of the ECU to avoid all the trouble codes. Like Hans said, the interface between the dash and other Porsche components/electronics will be huge hurdles that I believe, no one has overcome yet. So, in a nutshell, the machining game would be tough but doable, the electronics side would be a huge obstacle.

it might be cheaper to get the TT motor...

What you may consider doing, keeping in mind how low TT prices are getting, is buying the TT shell and literally just parting the whole thing out to raise cash, and then go out and buy a TT. With patience I think you'll do very well on that trade. Overall you'll be happier, it's finance-able if budget is a concern, and warrant-able if mechanicals are a concern. Since you don't strike me as the kind of guy who's afraid to get a little dirty, you could also buy a C2 and supercharge (FAST). Or, if you don't like the idea of parting out, get someone to quote you for the TT motor and a 2WD trans (assuming you have no driveline in the roller), maybe it'll be cheaper enough to make the exercise and risk seem less worthwhile. Talk to the renntech folks or our TT board about how ABS/PSM etc are affected by no front diff though. I'm just pulling for you to do the heavy lifting on the LSx since it's such a brain teaser! Typically the cost of LS conversion in an oil cooled car is ~15K. Figure you'll spend another few grand assuming you can spin the wrenches. Remember, in 2500lbs 930s the 500-600bhp is incomprehensible, and there's no other solution to hit those power levels in those cars short of a sprint motor or a TON of boost, and the replacement Porsche motor is practically even money or more. In a TT, you can hit those output numbers pretty handily with the motor it's got.

Why ruin a perfectly good design?

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I think you may be onto something with the parting out of the TT shell and then buying a real TT. But I agree, putting an LSx into the 911 would be bad ***, and very quick. I have seen 966 C4's with blown engines now and then for a good deal. Throwing a reman engine in there or doing it myself and then putting a SC on it (can I SC it?) would give pretty good results too. I dont mind getting dirty. If I could do everything for 25k over the cost of the shell I think I will go that way. At this point I'll be buying the shell for sure and then work out the kinks. Just the day dreams of a 500+ hp LSx in a turbo 966 body has me drooling. How am I? I am keeping the perfect body design and lines of the Porsche and adding the perfect design of the LSx Engine. But for real, if your willing to front the costs I have NO problem at all putting the TT engine in.

LS6 engine belongs in a GM body car, not for an efficient Germany machine. Just don't go together. Push rod isn't exactly the prefect design, too much energy lost. If you want perfect design look into a Ferrari small V8, the flat crank design is more enjoyable than the good old faithful flat 6. Of course that comes with a hefty price tag. I hang out with American V8s (A small car meet in Chino every Sunday from 7-9am), hang out and see plenty of awesome pushrods everyweekend, regardless the Porsche body shape deserves something better then the push rod.

carerra crate motor, a used trans + s/c? DIY, throw in a software flash and you could be within budget.....

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The way I see it the new Z06 and the new turbo are pretty good competition, mind you two Z06's could be had for the turbo price tag though. Despite perfect design or not you can not argue the fact that the good old American V8 is a lot more reliable and will take a lot more abuse then the Porsche motor. And well lets not forget price since it is a factor here. But as I said, I am more then willing to let you pony up the extra bones to put the proper engine in her. where can I get a crate motor for a good price?

Would you ever be able to get this car past the referee for smog and licensing?

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I am in Alberta, so thats really a non issue. We dont smog test here.

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What are you talking about? The whole business of Porsche is based on their motors being reliable and able to take a beating. Hint.... 24 hours of LeMans?

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+1 The corvettes are always in the pits...while the Porsche cars keep zipping around.

Well if you're going to go out and spend 25K, you're better off with the turbo at 27K than a whole new carrera driveline + SC. Run a good flash on the ECU and you'll be very happy.

Besides, the TT will have resale. a Chevy powered V8 porsche not so much.

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Advertise as a drag car and it will sell like hot cakes.

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I wasnt aware the Lemans Porsche used a factory motor.... Nor the vette for that matter. And to that note, how many people have posted about blown engines on here? or if not blown at least needing somewhat major work, even more so if they arent driven much. I would say 10 to 1 over any LSx vehicle. I actually dont ever recall seeing anyone blown an LSx engine without putting too much boost on it or too much nitrous. GM cars have had a lock out to prevent poor downshifts for YEARS so thats not a problem even. I wont argue that Porsche makes a good engine, and makes lots of power. But there is no way you can say that they have less problems then an LSx.How many Porsche engines hit 200k miles without more then oil changes? hell even 160k. To this day I have yet to buy a car or do anything to a car with "The next guy" in mind. **** him. Its my car and I will not do something just to please the "next guy".

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Well, that's good mentality to have for a Ferrai ownership.

Cory's right, this would sell as a drag car and for money. With proper planning 1000+bhp is possible and it won't cost a fortune. I have a great deal of respect for the latest LS motors. They represent as much of a leap over the SBC/LT1 as the M96 did over the M64, in fact much more so. The 7K redline's higher than TT, titanium connecting rods, dry sump, 4140 crank, and power to weight far greater than any other big power motor. The LS7 puts out 550ish hp/tq from a 458lb package with stock cams, lifters, and injectors on pump gas. Dressed TT is nearly 100 lbs more and over 100 hp less, and an N/A 3.6 is about the same weight yet only 320ish bhp. Reliability is going to be roughly equivalent, the GT1 block in the TT is known to handle massive boost That having been said, this is a budget limited build for someone who wants to retain street features like slip and airbags and gauges etc. Sky's the limit budget for drag or even X class I would say roll up the sleeves, it would be a wild ride to figure this out. But given the situation, I think you need to just grab the TT drivetrain for 27K, you can drop it in yourself and it's pretty indestructible as turbo motors go. 25K or 27K it's no contest, TT drivetrain. If you do decide to mess around with this though, start by buying an el cheapo Ls1 for 2K, do nothing to it, and see if you can get it to work. If so boost the crap out of it, and when it blows drop in the LS6, all the hard work will have been done an you'll have less risk. A last note, equating the use of pushrods to low performance is a rather consumer oriented viewpoint, one needs only remember the Mercedes/Ilmor Indy motor to realize that for open displacement forced induction applications there are few better solutions, and when considering the true concern, power to weight, there is really nothing close to the LS7 in the naturally aspirated world short of the 6.3 litre AMG V8 at 525hp out 439 lbs (but $60-$70K for M156 crate) or a CGT M80 or the amazing F430 V8 at 490 hp and 417 lbs (360 is 400hp/408lbs). Cams, whether in block or overhead, and conventional valvetrains in general are low tech. If it's about state of the art, open your valves with magnets like the pros, or go to DC if you want to talk about engineering.

I wasn't referring to "the next guy". From your first post cost seemed to be a factor in your descison making. Going with the TT motor would most likely reduce your Total Cost of Ownership over the Chevy. It's something you should think about. But hey... do what you want. I don't really give a ****

I recall seeing ads in Excellence about installing a V8 into a 911...I think it is possible and has been done. I'll check and see if I can find the ad for you.

I think the excellence ads are for renegade hybrids in nevada, air cooled pre-odb cars only i think

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I'm won't argue that. If you're gonna do it, do it right. But in the context of this budget, I don't see it. $27K (used?) and you still need a trans. I recently priced a new TT motor, and it was considerably more than that.

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the OP said he had a line on a motor and transaxle for 27K total in his first post, so I keep using that number. Agreed it's a low number, new trans is ~10K alone

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Upon hearing that the 27k seemed like a low quote I phoned Porsche again at lunch. When he answered the phone I knew it was the same guy. And i just said I would like to order the TT powertrain for the 27k I was quoted. his reply "Uh hold on" After being on hold for 5 minutes a new guy picked up the phone. Asked a few questions and then told me that they had never sold a TT driveline as parts and didnt even know how to look it up, the number was "just a guess". WTF! since when do you guess on a quote... He said he would have to make a couple calls and get back to me. About 3 hours later I had a voice mail from him. "The total for the TT drive line would be 58,719.18 with gst" HOLY ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats almost half what the TT sells for. A little discouraging to say the least. Althought it pretty much settles that I can not afford to put the TT engine in, unless I dont want to eat anymore, and even then. This is a great idea. I would probably take it to the drag strip and keeping upping an N2O shot until she blew and see how fast a run I could make. (cheaper then boost). Good news is I am waiting for my buddy to pick me up with the car hauler trailer to go pick the shell up

Looks like we've got a project!

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wow, some ignorant statements I never thought I'd see from you.

Htny, just for reference, only the Ls7 has the titanium rods. The LS6 does not. If your budget is $8600 after the motor, what are you considering for a transaxle. A nice G50 runs like $6k, so that kind of takes a big bite out.

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Hells yes. The car is perfect! The thought of parting it out and seeing how close I can get to an actual TT is still in the back of my mind though. And depends on a couple calls I am waiting to hear back on, mostly about how hard the computers will be to deal with and stuff like that. 8500 after purchase of engine and transaxel. I have ~25 over the cost of the shell to spend. If I do a budget motor to just get everything working then I would have that much more if other things came up. Or if I could part out the car for ~25-30k then I could afford to buy a nice turbo for next summer. Considering the car only has 13,701 km on it everything is still pretty new.

This may sound obvious, but why not start putting out feelers for a crashed TT to salvage used drivetrain? In these days of unlimited info on the web, I'm sure there are some poor crashed TT's just waiting for new life somewhere. Well best of luck.

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Thanks for catching that, LS6 (at least the one boosted one that broke that I have seen personally) did have some titanium up top though, maybe the spring retainers? Anyway you're correct, I was thinking LS7 from the start.

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Definitely speak with the folks in San Antonio whom Cory mentioned re: electronics. By going to a cheap cheap motor to start you have a little R&D headroom that will pay dividends I just priced CPO turbos, nice cars for 55-60, no warranty much lower. great idea

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ya the 60k range is about where I priced turbos too. I agree about the feeler for the crashed turbos, but I am just seeing if the parting out might be the best idea still. Finding a crashed turbo might be tough, as I know if I crashed mine I would just collect the insurance check and be done with it. Finding used turbo drive train in my preliminary search did not look promising.

What's a 966? Is that the factory designation for the 996 turbo or is it a typo?

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My bad, thats a typo.