99 coupe with w/ 21K miles 2 trans replaced?

Hey Fellas, I am still in the hunt for my first Porsche. I am looking at a car this evening that is 3 miles from my house. The owner says the car is fantastic like new condition. The pictures reaffirm this. The car has 21K on the clock. Arena red base coupe with tan leather interior. 6 psd They are asking a ridiculous price (because the car is in such great shape) but they said they would be flexible on price for a serious buyer. I ran the carfax today to find out more about the car. It says the trans has been replaced... TWICE!!!! Here I am looking for IMS or RMS issues and the trans has taken a crap twice under warranty. Once at at 6,447 miles and again at 15,752. Question: should I "leave this where it lies?" I think I already know the answer but appreciate some addtional insight. Hypothetically, what if I offered them $15K for the car and they agreed? Thanks, Jim

Why not ask for the repair sheets for the 2 tranny issues, find out if it was a synchro or sheared gears etc. There are many 996s out there and prices IMO are a bargain, so I'd suggest looking around for other, perhaps better examples. I would be a bit wary of this problem unless it could be explained to my satisfaction. GL

what did the owner say about it

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She is the second owner. It was replaced once while the first owner had the car. The second and current owner says that the trans was never replaced. They took the car in for a cluthc assmebly noise that was fixed under warranty. She believes that was some type of recall.

carfax are known to make a few errors... 2 tranny issues is not the same as 2 tranny replacement.... If your really like the car I would get to the bottom of it.... ask a dealer if they can pull the records on the vin... some dealers do this for free or for a fee. The tranny on the 996 in general are trouble free if serviced properly. However, I would buy it at market price per mileage... lots of mint samples out there if you are patient.

if you can get it for 15k do it immediately. in fact, go there with the 15k cash just in case she is crazy enough to take that insultingly low offer.

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That was just a hypothetical Tom. Her asking price is equally unreasonable. To update, she is going to get the entire service history of the car from the dealer and see what she can do to straighten out the error, if it is indeed an error. The first trans could have crapped out and she wouldn't have known.

Only 21K miles in 10 years!!!!!!!! I have read a LOT of comments on this site about avoiding garage queens...........does this qualify for that title? Pete

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It certainly might. She bought it 2003 with 14k on it. Trust me, I have thought of that too. "If i don't drive it, it won't break." Not exactly my reason for wanting to purchase a 996.

where are you located? check out my buddy joe's 99 with 55k in real nice shape. https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...ro-kit-fs.html There are a half dozen guys here that have seen the car and can nit pick it to death for you before you get a PPI. i just bought a 95 M3 that had the motor replaced at 21k because the owner missed a shift. That didnt scare me, but that was 161k miles ago.

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I'm in Newark, DE. It's a little far (colorado) but a great looking car. I have my eye on a few 99-01 cars right now. As many have said before, lots of cars to choose from.

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there are awesome people here at Rennlist that would be happy to look over a car for you before making a flight out, PPI and drive it home... I have looked at a few for others.... who made the plunge. I wouldnt be afraid of buying outside of your state....

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I can't remember a single post giving a real reason why a low mileage car should be avoided. That doesn't mean lots of people don't feel that way, but no one has been able to back it up with anything other than anecdotal.

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Redridge, I would definately utilize the help of the rennlist folks. So far all have been very helpful. With regards to the car that started my post, the dealer addressed a clutch assembly noise and they recorded the replacment of the trans when all they did was remove it to address the concern. Carfax really can screw people over. I test drove the car this evening. The car is drum tight. It has been garaged kept but it is fairly dirty. Oddly, the car had the fewest options that I have ever seen.. The Arena red is nice, not sure if I am feeling the mustard colored leather. So, if the dealer report comes back with no major concerns (RMS/IMS/defective trans etc), and a PPI comes back clean, what is the best price on this car? Recap: 99 coupe - Arena red/mustard leather. 6spd 22,250 miles very very few options- colored crests/leather seats Solid Michelin Pilots all around. The person selling the car is what I would call a "lazy" seller. 1 grainy photo on the for sale site, didn't clean the car before presenting, didn't check the car fax etc. I'm thinking $23-$24 tops. I appreciate your thoughts.

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The only thing that concerns me with the low mileage is that things haven't had the opportunity to fail and the seal, metals, and the like are made to expand and contract repeatedly. A car not driven often might have seals that have "dried out" Just my opinion.

To further confuse the issue I have seen two 2001's advertise recently for 23-or-soK with 35 -45K miles. A lot of folks got into these cars when cash was flowing like water during the real estate and stock market hey-day. Cash is gone and the cars have to go. It's a very, very severe buyers market right now (for anything). Strategy: get prequalled for a 22K loan and have that check in hand - they will smell the money and become dizzy and it will give you an edge - guaranteed. So what if you have to write a personal check or cash for the difference on a car you like. Having the cash gives you more confidence (without you realizing it) when you are talking turkey. One other thing - after you pull the trigger on the deal almost guaranteed you will see a car you 'like better' the next week after you get the one you just bought. SayLaVee. One the plus-side lots of them out there right now - got to Autotrader.com to help you baseline what's out there. It will give a good data base although the cars there are blatantly W-A-Y overpriced for some reason. ALSO: pay the 39 bucks to carfax for UNLIMITED carfaxes. Everytime you see one you want to know more about - RUN THE CARFAX on it. AND - always ask for option codes and run them on the Option code Finder on the web. If a seller does not know where the option codes are found on the car - they are clueless, ruthless or both and you should move (run) on. (The option codes are under the front hood AND in the original owners manual btw) If the codes are NOT under the hood that is a good indicator that the hood has been replaced or possibly repaired and repsrayed - regardless of what the CARFAX indicates. High end car owners are very savvy about recovering from a fender bender - they will get the car repaired and pay out of pocket so the insurance never reports it to the 'system' and they can turn the car in at the end of lease and tip-toe away. Cars without the manuals should be generally avoided - we can talk about the many reasons for my opinion on that. That 's my story and I'm sticking to it. BTW: for folks in Northern VA looking at cars you have loads of folks to take the car to for an assessment of the powerplant, tranny, lights, and sunroof operation. If you want an experts view of the condition of your body - take it to Autocrafters in Manassas, [phone removed] (no affiliation, etc.). Robert is a genius on spotting and explaining any manner of body issues on Porsches. He is to the 911 body and chassis what your favorite Indy is to your engine & tranny. He can also fix or paint your car to like new - just ask r-lister, MrBock.

low mileage and a stripper vs a few more miles on a loaded car? i would prefer the higher mileage car since i and most porsche owners dont drive more than 5-7k a year. whats the premium on a better suspension, or more options, and a color you can live with? i think you will have a hard time getting out of a car with a bad color no matter how low the mileage, and a good color well optioned car will sell faster even with some more miles.

Holy long paragraph Marlon! I'd like to see the ads for $23k or so cars with 35-45k miles that are not a Tiptronic or have some sort of story or condition issue. The market for these cars has tanked, but not that far, I think. Of course, there will be some examples of great deals, but that doesn't define the market any more than examples of folks who way overpaid. A market is defined by what a buyer is willing to pay and a seller is willing to take. In my opinion, of course there are some ads that are clearly overly optimistic, but on the whole the ads are an indication of what those sellers are willing to take for their cars. I know in my case, if I can't get (what I feel is) a fair price, I'll just keep it. I disagree totally with your logic on people paying cash to fix a leased car. As long as a repair is done properly, the leasing company cannot charge the lessee for diminution of value associated with a ding on a carfax. Also, a substantial crash repair cost will certainly exceed the diminution of value of a repaired car. Of course, many of us would pay cash to fix minor damage to avoid the risk of increases in our insurance premiums. I know not everyone will agree with me. Ah well... C'est la vie Joe

Back to the trans issue...the carfax for the car I bought was messed up. It showed a transmission replacement when there simply was not one done and it did *not* show the engine replacement that was done. I have the records from Porsche with dates and mileage, and they do not agree with the carfax.

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You won't 'see' ads at 23K - it emerges when negotiating. I've done it twice. Just like buying a house I have experience with at least two cars that have had extensive repairs that were not reported to carfax. Carfax reveals 'reported' accidents, but more importantly can reveal certain maintenance actions AND the name of the repair facility which allows YOU the prospective buyer the latitude to CALL and find out more on the car. I've done that too - with interesting results, mostly good. You get out of it what you put into it.

Hey Marlon, This post, I almost entirely agree with you. Your original email stated "I have seen two 2001's advertise recently for 23-or-soK with 35 -45K miles". That sure made me think that you did SEE such ads. Now you're saying I WON'T 'see' these ads. Carfax is imperfect. (That's the very nice way of putting it) We've all heard enough stories to know that they often do not show accident history or report information incorrectly. It's the best tool we have and better than nothing, but I sure wouldn't automatically assume an intent to defraud on a car that failed to show accident damage on a Carfax. My old 964 didn't have a ding on the Carfax, yet had been involved in a fairly substantial front end collision prior to my ownership. All parts had been replaced (not repaired) and the paint work was outstanding. The previous owner told me about it and I told the buyer when I sold it. Most of our cars will never be collectible, they are just very nice cars to own and drive. At 10 years old, I'd be much more concerned with mileage and condition than if some collision damage (not involving structural damage) had been repaired long in the past. To the best of my knowledge, and Carfax, and an outstanding body shop in Denver, my car has not been in an accident. Yet, the option code sticker is missing under the hood. Interestingly, when I called Porsche North America to ask for the option codes, they did not list everything my car has. Option code stickers have been known to be wrong.

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The option codes are ALSO in the owners manual - check them there. Alternatively you can provide the VIN to a dealer and they can get the info for you - it will take some time tho. Cars like houses are listed ridiculously high - cash + serious intent to buy drives the price down real quick.

at what point do you forgive a cars past? the guy i bought my m3 from owned it since 90k. under the hood are stickers that would indicate it was tracked - he bought the car with them on it. no sunroof - very rare, early serial number, blown motor at 21k. all indicia of an abused or driven hard car. but - the guy i bought it from has not changed the clutch. so for the last 90k its been on one clutch. do i judge the car on the first 90k or the second 90k? when new a 996 culd have sustained 30k of damage and not been totalled, while a current 996 would be totalled at 15k. which repaired car would you rather have? i think most prospective buyers pass over the ridiculously high asking prices. i dont have patience to negotiate someone to reality. sure i would put a little padding in my asking price, and i know the guy taling to me may be my only customer, but if i put it out there at a reasonable price, i expect to get a resonable offer. did the same with my houses both buying and selling. if you come to me with a stupid low number i say thank you and walk away. then i ignore you.

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Thanks Marlon. I agree with most of what you said. With regards to pricing I think you are spot on. Excellence states that a good condition 99 coupe is only worth 21 to 23 anyway. The seller is not knowledgable about the car. I asked for the options codes and she said, "it has air conditioning". I can't be a 100% sure (without a PPI) but the car is accident free. All the stickers are in place and the manual was jammed in the door panel compartment. I have signed up for the carfax unlimited service. It's a decent tool but certainly not perfect. The owner has requested from the dealer the entire service history. Fortunately, the car was purchased new and serviced there its entire life. If anyone on the rennlist 996 forum saw the ad that was placed with one grainy photo, a questionable carfax with the potential of 2 transmission replacements, a high asking price, 2nd owner, and very little detail, most just would have passed this over. Hell, I only went to see it because it is 5 minutes from my house. The car wasn't even washed. It was quite dirty but you could tell it was garage kept.

I would not worry that much about buying a 10yr old car with 21k miles - yes there probably going to be some minor issues like alternator, water tank, oil sensor from a car that has sat for a while. I bought my 99 with 22k miles 2yrs ago and have been happy with the purchase. Yes I had the issues above but I would always prefer a lower mileage car to a higher mileage car. Get it checked out by a reputable resource and make a decision. Curious what trade in would be on a 99 with 21k miles today. 2 yrs ago I was offered 28k tradein for a 2007 C4S

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that sounded like a good trade...

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It seems that you are on top of current 99 prices... I would ask to put it on the lift and check for any oil spots... do you have a mechanic that can do a PPI... $250-$400 is worth the money IMHO. Check the build date on the tires... MPS can run up to $1200. I bought my 2000 with 22K miles, no seal issues so far and have 40K currently. Arena Red is nice but if you like the savanna beige (others dont) and the PPI checks out I would do it. Its a hell of a car at that price. GL!

Marlon, I finally fought my way through your one paragraph and notice something i believe is completely incorrect regarding a leased car. It is my understanding that a lessee is not responsible for diminution of value as long as the car is repaired properly. In fact, many experts argue there is no diminution in a non collectible car (which a 996 at this time is) that is repaired properly. that is why i leased a number of cars. if someone hit it, and i took it to the dealer to be fixed, and no matter how crummy a job they do, it is not my problem because it is signed off as good. at the end of the lease i "trade" it in and get on my "trade in" the residual value we agreed on at the inception of the lease. if i owned the car and had to actually sell or "trade" it in, i would get dinged on the value for the repair and diminution in value. so i dont think a lesse gives a rats rump about an accident. As for the manuals, I leased a few cars, and I kept the manuals and window stickers as souveniers. if they asked for them they would have gotten them. so buying an off lease car without a manual means nothing. as for an owned car, my dad had the owners manual in the house, and my mom organized the house. i was visiting when i got to hear the "she moves everything........." spiel for the umpteenth time, and took him to the car and showed him how to turn on the headlights. when i sell their house for estate purposes i may find the manuals. hopefully that will not be soon. Many porsche and bmw owners bought the car because it is a porsche (and dont care about manuals etc. as long as people know it is a porsche), not because it is a porsche. did you buy yours because it is a porsche or because it is a porsche?

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Thanks. So the mustard color is savanna beige? I'll admit, it is different. probably not my favorite but the interior color is not a top priority. I am looking for a good PPI place in my area. I may take it to Dougherty Automotive in West Chester, PA (25 miles away). I heard they have a good reputation. Yeah, the tires are another "issue". I found out that the owner had them installed when she bought the car, in 2003! Their not worn and I didn't feel any flat spots when driving it but the tire are 6 years old. I didn't see any cracking in the sidewalls.

yes it is savanna beige.... if you want to know for sure, under the hood get the factory option codes and post it here... we can decode it for you. Well, it sounds like it was a sunday car.... 6 year old tires should be replaced if you plan to have "fun" with the car... around town no big deal. I get 5K-7K miles out of my rear tires (dpending on how I use the car that season). But I would replace it (use as a bargaining chip ). PPI is your 1st defense.

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Aye Aye Capitain! Thanks again. The hunt is fun.

The only plus side to low mileage cars is that the driver's seat is usually in pristine condition. Other than that, I would avoid it as the bugs have never been allowed to come out on the car. Porsche, as a company, has gotten away with warranty issues for decades because owners fail to drive these things with the minimum of miles a year,--as such, nothing fails. When you have no reports of failures, you then have no data on where you need to make improvements.

I would ONLY consider purchasing a '99 if it had a new/updated motor or an active aftermarket warranty.