Time for new Rotors and Pads...Suggestions?

Well, it's time for new rotors and pads. I participate in about 8-10 track days a year and the car is a semi-daily driver (couple days a week). I need new rotors and pads and need to solicit everybody's advice about what brands to buy and where to buy them. I am open to having two sets of pads (street and track) but would prefer not to have to change pads for every event. Right now I have factory pads (textar I believe) that make incredible amounts of dust that I could live without! Suggestions? TIA

Pagid RS4-2 or RS4-4 sounds like a good fit based on what i've read. I will probably be going to one of those pads. I was considering Hawk but i heard they squeak/dust a lot more and i don't think i could live with that. rotors, you do quite a bit of tracking compared to most, perhaps some slotted rotors would be better? just offerin my 2 cents. i'm curious as 2 what others think as well.

Dell, this is a great topic as I am also around the corner from brake replacements and need advise! Thanks for posting!

Slotted? Are those the ones that have grooves instead of cross-drilled holes? Vented still of course, correct? Thanks for the input!

^ bingo. i've been told that they are better for track purposes as they hold up longer. you also get a bigger contact surface for the pads 2 work on.

i found this site that has some info on brakes, brake kits and stuff apparently there's a pretty good weight savings with brembo..but its expensive. does anyone have specs on stoptechs? (dan from vivid racing? JimB? ) click here for info, no affiliation with site.

what would you guys suggest for rotors & pads for street use only? what's a typical mileage change?

^ i'm at 37000 kms on original rotors..i bought the car used with like 8kkms or so on it so i'm not sure if these are original pads. but i have yet to have the pad sensor light come on and no squeak. on the street (assuming u drive like a semi sane person of course), i'd just wait till the wear light comes on and then switch. rotors should last you a long time tho.

Didn't see any 996 applications for the rotors on the site you suggested. My pads are squealling like crazy right now and they look like there is pad left and the light hasn't come on yet. What would cause that much noise? It is SOOOOOOO annoying.

warped rotors?

Yes, I'm interested in best replacement pads and typical mileage also, for street use. Thanks

Here is my take: Do not try to use the same pads for street and track usage. No matter which pad you try, it WILL be a compromise. Life is too short for such compromises. As such, use the stock pads for the street (which work well cold and make no noise, but do not wear as well as track pads), and swap out track pads for DEs (which offer great stopping power and longevity, but are noisy and work better when warmed up). It is VERY easy to swap the pads provided that you zip tie your brake pad wear sensors out of the way. If you are worth your salt, you check your brake pads often enough that you don't really need the sensors anyway. I use performance friction track pads, and they worked well. I use stock rotors. They are cheap to replace, and my car is under warranty so I would rather have stock rotors/pads on when I take it to the dealer. The only down side to the stock rotors is that they are drilled. If you are using your brakes pretty hard (e.g., track use), then the holes will start to show cracks. When the cracks propogate to the extent that they connect two of the drilled holes or go from a hole to the edge of the rotor, you MUST replace. Slotted and normal rotors simply do not have the same tendency to crack. The holes were originally meant to help with outgassing of brake pads (not water), but the new brake pads supposedly do not have the outgassing problem, so the drilling doesn't seem to be as necessary any more. If you go with non-stock rotors, I would go for solid or slotted with a primary focus on quality and weight (in that order). I would never install a rotor that is any heavier than stock. I installed the GT3RS brake ducts. They are a snap on replacement, and they are about 2/3s larger than the stock ducts. Hard to know how much they help, BUT, more air can't hurt. Finally, Dell, stop yer bitchin about brake dust It just shows that your brakes are workin . . . Do what I did and buy the BBS RS-GT wheels in Diamond Black finish. It does a great job of hiding brake dust. PS. I personally think that the Brembo brake upgrade packages are a waste of money unless you have added a turbo or a supercharger to your C2. The stock brakes are great, and if you are having overheating problems, then you are probably braking too much or incorrectly. That said, I like Castrol SRF brake fluid. It has very high dry and wet boiling points, but it is very expensive.

It sounds like you may have glazed your pads. First, get a flashlight and look at the width of your pads, front and back. They should be at least as thick as the pad backing plate. If they are not, replace immediately. Assuming your pads are thick enough (since your light is not on), take your car out and start driving it like you stole it. Go up to speed (e.g. 80 mph) and perform a series of threshold braking stops down to 30 mph or so. Try this for 6-10 time, waiting about 3-5 minutes between each stop (be safe, don't do it where there is traffic). There is not an exact formula for this, but you need to get the glazing off the pads/rotor. Nothing like actually using your brakes in order to make them happy (i.e., quiet). If you still have a squeeking sound after this, it may well be your brake dust shields rubbing against your rotors. Take a screwdriver and push them away from the rotor. I did this without even removing my wheels. You can see the upper edges of the shields just over the rotor. Placing a long screwdriver on these tabs and giving a couple of good shoves should do the trick.

Thanks Todd! Great write up. I think going the 2 pads route is the smartest. Which 2 sets then are rec'd? I am thinking stock rotors are prob the way to go though. Although, one of the local PCA techs rec'd forzen rotors and swears by them. Apparently they are pricey though and I don't really understand the point. Brake dust showing they are working? So by that token I want REALLY DUSTY pads then?

Dell, I would use stock pads and rotors for the street. I got mine from Suncoast www.e-partssales.com . I am sure you can find comparable prices from other suppliers, possibly even Rennlist sponsors. I got the performance friction pads from OG Racing. Here is some information about performance friction http://www.performancefriction.com/ They can give you the right part numbers. I note that they also sell performance friction rotors. Maybe OG Racing can give you prices on those. Yup, brakes work on friction, and friction creates dust (most of the time), so dusty means you have been having fun Now, if you care that much about dust, you could go ceramic, but if you want to spend that much, I would just get a 997

Great info Todd. I'll start making some calls this week. Any problems with using stock rotors swithcing out pads on the track though? Just thinking about what happens when I bed in the street pads, then switch over to the track pads for the track day, then bed those in before use, any problems forseable?

No problems with bedding in pads. For what it's worth, it is easier to bed in street pads, in part because of the material characteristics of the pad. That is a good thing, because you have the track available to you when you need to bed the more difficult pads. I found the performance friction pads to be easy to break-in in any event. You just show up a little early to the track, swap out your pads, bed them in ( or do so during the first lap of your first DE run). After your last session at the track and after everything has cooled down enough, just swap the pads back out again, and bed them as you leave the track. This practice has another great side benefit. It gives you a very good chance to inspect your tires, which is a GREAT idea. You want to inspect your tires very carefully before you start a DE, and you also want to inspect them after a track event. You would be surprised at what you might find, particularly if you have an agressive negative camber setting like I do. The rears can wear on the inside in a way that you cannot easily see without removing the tires.

The pads just need bedding in once correct? Or every time they get dropped in?

Everytime they get dropped in. Remember that the rotor has changed since the last time you used those pads, and you also need to get some of the pad material from the new pad on the rotor (as opposed to the last set you were using). That said, it is not as bad as it sounds.

What process do you use? I have done some reading up on it but it seems this process varies.

Dell, I also have a Cab. ('86) which has seen numerous track days and also the occasional every day stuff. I went with a drilled rotor (Zimmerman) and ceramic pad combination and am extremely happy with the outcome. Very little noise, very little dust and of course.....great breaking. Good luck to you. Real

Do you use your ceramic pad for both street AND track?

I just replace mine with Zimmermann cross drill and Pagid pads (Textar). I have them cadmium the rotors because I really hate to see center of rotor got rusty... the kit came with 4 silencer and pads had padding and I haven't heard any squeal so far... pretty much stock...but I got all these kit for little under $400. Some people suggested Mintex Red for street and had less brake dust. you might want look into it if you interest. All track pads or low-dust pads I've use required warm up...which that really killing me... If you interest PM me. don't want other think I am doing some advertising here...

Doesn't look like you are trying to sell anything here. Don't worry about it. As for the rotors, what (if any) are the pros and cons (outside of rust you stated) of having the Cd rotors versus straight steel? Are these factory ones that are just coated?

Are they lighter? Do they reduce the unsprung weight? If so... hmmmmmmmmm.

I track as much or more than you do and I use the stock big red brakes and pads, porsche also sells a tequipment racing pad, have'nt tried it yet.

You know that brings up a great point Chris. I was wondering why I couldn't just use my stock setup on the track? I don't think I get anywhere near the boundries of what would require me to go to a track setup of pads and/or rotors. Concur?

Yes I do concur, my brother has done the swapping pad thing, it's a real hassle. I just keep my stock TT brakes up to speed.

Do the C4S pads have the same operating temp as the C2 pads?

I believe they are slightly higher.

Any idea where that info can be found out?

Although I disagree with Chris about how big of a hassle it is to swap pads . . . I do think that you will be absolutely fine with stock pads and rotors. Stock pads are easy on the rotors, but the stock pads will wear out faster than track pads. The only downside I think for someone using their 996 for DEs like you is that you will go through pads faster. No big deal. If you don't want to swap pads, just keep an eye on them and change the stockers when they wear out. Also, I am sure you know this but our brakes and pads are different than those on the C4S and the Turbo, which are the same. I see absolutely no reason whatsoever for a C2 owner to convert the brakes to a Turbo setup unless you have added a turbo or supercharger.

I have heard that the tequipment racing pad is noisy and needs awhile to warm up. Not recommended for the street . . .

Dell: Cd pretty much just for cosmetic. I believe Zimmermann is factory rotors but painted grey at center. everything is the same compare to stock. I did not notice any brake power changes compare to OE pads/rotors. take little longer to brake-in though. my old pads doesn't have the extra weight on top corner and I don't know what's that for either??? cons: after brake-in, I found some peel off Cd due to contact with pads when I wash my wheels. it might cause scratch...just hose them off before wash it. Riad: No, I don't think they are any lighter... everything is stock spec...

Hassle wise, it's bad enough putting on my track tires, changing pads is just an additional hassle, then toss in bypass pipes......

Chris, I feel ya. The night before track weekend I dread the wheels swap. Thought about doing it at the track (wife's follows me in the SUV carrying misc tools, wheels, etc.) but I need ALL my strength for the day so I just put on my track wheels at the house the night before. Bad enough I have to get up at the crack of dawn!

Why?, if it's because 911's are great out of the box, I'd agree...but brake mods. are one of the more prudent mods. IMO. There is definitely no such thing as a street/track pad. I sort of learnt it the difficult way, I went with pagid "sport", but it did create some initial problems, still no better than stock, but was cheaper and does not squeel. My next set will be a more aggressive track pad, and I'll live with the squeeling as I don't drive much on the streets any more. I am too lazy to change anything on the track. TD, how is your experience with your track 944,....C4S surgeon, where are those picture after the X73 mod.

For what it's worth, I use stock rotors on my racecar. They are hard to kill. You'll never wear them out but, if you get them hot enough, they will eventually crack enough between the holes that they need to be replaced. I'll only replace mine about once a season and they are fairly cheap. The stock pads are pretty good on the track but I would swap for track pads if you don't mind the hassle of switching them. Street pads just don't hold up to the temps you should be generating. The other advantage of switching to race pads is that you can go with a higher friction rear pad and effectively push your brake bias back while on the track. It really makes a difference. (I can't believe I'm discussing my "secrets to racing a 996" on the internet) Have fun, Jim

Jeeva, it is because they are great out of the box. Also, you increase unsprung weight by installing most upgrades, which is very bad if the stock solution was satisfactory. Also, I think that most of us beginner drivers over-brake. If your brakes are fading, maybe it is because you are abusing them? Of course, there are always exceptions (extreme conditions, turbo or supercharger upgrades, etc . .. ). I will use the 944 for the first time this weekend! I can't wait.

But, it is very appreciated So......if you were me what pads would you run for the track? Remember I am not as hard on the car as some of you hardcore guys! But, I do enjoy pushing the cars to the limits as best as I can. TIA,

Make sure and post the link to video if you take it!!!

My driving in a new car on a new track may be too bad for me to do that BUT, if everyone wants a good laugh, I may have someone take video of me trying to get into, and out of, the new car with the full cage and racing seat. I promise I won't wear a kilt

If you do do't forget your bloomers If not for our laugh, you can really learn from the video. I know I have. I document every track day to try and learn.

That makes perfect sense,....mine were'nt fading, but as I switched to R-compounds I did'nt want to risk it. I am thinking of RS-19 (only for the braking distance and not just fade) as my next set, but I'll be doing some search in the archives for more info. I was'nt planning to upgrade my rotors, but if Jim B with his recent class win in PCA racing at Putnam is fine with his rotors, I think we'll be more than fine with ours.

Just to clarify, I don't consider changing pads to be an "upgrade." I can totally understand changing to purpose specific pads. I just see these upgrade kits (e.g., bigger rotors, bigger calipers with more pistons, etc . . . ) that I do not think are necessary for our cars UNLESS they have serious mods like a turbo or supercharger added on. I think that they are unnecessary, and thus bad because they are expensive and, more importantly, heavier. Hope you are well Jeeva!

Well I don't know,....I think I have a serious condition of trackaholism,...I just returned from Putnam this wknd., I can't wait to get back, my next event is not till sept 3rd, i seriously don't think I can make it that long,...HELP ME! But something tells me, I am asking the wrong guy

I feel your pain as well. My next event isn't till the 3rd and 4th of SEPT as well.

Dell, I like Pagid orange in front and black in back. One thing to consider though. You are going to be generating a lot more heat with these pads. They can lead you down the slippery slope of high priced brake fluid and cooling ducts that usually don't work very well on the street. They can also freak your ABS out a little until you get used to a firm but smooth pedal. You'll also find that the increased braking power will result in a somewhat less stable car under heavy braking until you increase the compression on your front dampers. It's always something. Someone asked about bedding brakes when you swap for the track. Maybe someone already pointed it out but you bed brakes for two reasons. First to match the surface of the pads to the surface of the rotors. Second to allow the pads to "gas." You can read more about gassing on the Pagid site but, in short, it's the chemical process that releases gas the first time pads are heat cycled. The second step is the most important and the one that requires the bedding procedure. Just matching the surfaces is pretty easy and is the only step needed when swapping used pads onto your car. Hope this helps. Jim

Thanks Jim. One question though. Why different pads in front and back?

Factory cars are set up with a braking bias that heavily favors the front brakes. This is far safer, because if your rear wheels lock up before your front wheels, you will spin. However, as with all things, the sacrifice is that on dry surface, you are not using all of the braking power available from your rear brakes. By installing more aggressive pads in the rear, I believe that Jim is trying to maximize his braking ability by capitalizing on some of the unused rear capacity (counteracting the factory bias). You can do the same thing by installing a bias adjuster, but you really don't need to do that on a dual use car. I have never used different pads on rear and front, but it is surprising to hear that it would make much of a difference. Jim, does it cause you any problems in low traction conditions (is this why the car is more jumpy)?

Yeah, that would be like asking a crack addict whether you should get a new pipe

TD is right. The 996 is much more stable under braking with a little more brake in back. The combo makes a significant difference over using the same pads at both ends. TD, the car gets unstable because the increased braking in front causes the nose to dip more than you want unless you have more compression or stiffer springs. The different pads front to back actually helps. Jim

Ahh, ok. I don't notice it at all on my 996 because it has PSS9s set very firmly and lowered significantly, both of which help reduce the weight transfer during braking that leads to the unstable feeling.

I just have the RoWM030 kit installed and I guess I don't push the car hard enough to notice the braking bias. Wow, do I have a lot to learn! My next track day Sept 3/4 i will be having an instructor teach me even more this time about my car. I have had an instructor several times, but I got such positive comments and was told I would be great on my own at that point and haven't had an instructor since.....yeah right. i can hold my own but I am nowhere near where I want to be. Back to school

Jeeva, I'm just too lazy to download and reduce the pics, now that you've shamed me into it I'll post 'em tonight....I hope.

I used the factory Textars (in my 993) for the first year of DE's and found they perform great, to a point that is. Once you gain speed at these events, you'll require more thermal capacity, and need better pads/fluid and eventually addtional cooling. All of this is amplified once you start using R-compound tires. If you are just starting out driving DE's, stick with factory pads and flush your fluid often. Once you feel your brakes are suffering (long pedal=fluid boil, or good pedal and less braking torque=pad overheating), then its time to upgrade to track pads and better fluid. Also, please remember to pump the brakes after each pad change to verify you got a pedal to begin with

Did I say my next DE is not till sept,....WRONG, I just sent in the application for the 3-day DE at mid-ohio,...Heeeeeeehaa . I just re-arranged some planned stuff at work and home and made the wknd free............man, if I were to go buy the definition of alcohol addiction, I may have a problem here. Chris, we are still waiting for your pictures, buddy

Came across this thread rading up on pads, etc., and just noticed that something is missing......... Still waiting on the pics from Chris???

What would cause stock C4S brakes to "studder" during track use, and then stop in a normal fashion during street/road use the following day?

jeffrobb. sounds like you need to start a new thread for a question like that since it has nothing to do with this thread which asked for suggestions of pads and rotors. asking questions like that in old threads greatly reduces your chances of getting it answered.