Which Ceramic Hybrid Bearing? Open, Sealed, Imre, Anyone?

I decided to use a CH bearing with the Pelican kit. I have heard both arguments for open (LNE) vs. sealed (Casper) but does anyone really know? Both are $45 bearings which makes it absurd to pay $300 to $600 for either. LNE thinks the CH gets enough oil to survive while Casper (and Porsche) believe in the permanent grease sealed theory. Do you guys really think there is enough oil hitting the "open" bearing. What about potential contamination hitting a ball? Do the theories even matter if this is a 40K mileage item? To me the ideal kit would be the Pelican retaining stud, nut, updated flange seal, snap ring, oil seal, with the $45 bearing for @$100 total. Offer a kit for single and one for dual thereby making the kits cheaper. Almost all my parts are here. Any thoughts before I tackle this mess on mine?

Please sell your car.

LMAO

I hope you don't spend this much time in the grocery isle on which toilet paper to get too.

I would prefer a new thread for every letter in the alphabet...reminds me of when he was trying to find his car.

No problem. I was hoping some would have some opinions/theories on bearing types, open, sealed, and why. Please disregard.

I went with a replacement sealed with improved plastics in the seal. Reasoning that old one lasted 55k miles and ten years, new one will too. Service item...so will do this again in 2020

Thanks but I moved thread. Hoping for closure.

Fair question.. simple answer I found when going through this process is that there are many LNE kits installed and I have yet to hear of a failure. If they were failing left and right the community would have vetted the issue long ago. If you keep the oil levels near full and change it around 5k miles, I dont think theres a reason to worry with the open seal theory. my .02

I left the seal on and put about half a litre of sythetic engine oil for a diesel car (cause that's what I hand on ham) in the tube.

I doubt anyone on here has the expertise to give an opinion that really could be counted on in this regard that would definitely establish one option as "better" than the others. The internet is a great place to get information, but opinions? Same as a-holes, everyone has one. Even the people on here that may legitimately have a claim to actual knowledge (and I'm sure there are some) probably don't have anywhere near the experience of the two vendors in question. The likely answer is that there are potential pluses and minuses to both options, neither of which makes a significant difference in operation. Yes, that was another opinion :-) Maybe you should put together some "kits" and sell them for $400, I dunno. What I find hilarious is that you repeatedly have quoted Porsche's asking price for a replacement SAI to try to scare people into thinking that a 996 is very expensive to repair when it's fairly common knowledge that the same exact Bosch part in a Bosch box can be found for around $300. The same goes for many other parts. Further you've yourself posted a great fix-it thread for the SAI that costs about $20 IIRC. The SAI, however, is at the end of the day a non-mission-critical part. Now you're here with your IMSB buying $45 bearings to save a few bucks. Saving money is good and admirable in general, saving a few hundred dollars for an item that is vital to the continued good health of the engine maybe not so much. If your $45 bearing fails, good luck going back to that supplier for help. If the same bearing fails as supplied by LNE for example but installed by yourself, maybe you can get some help. If the same bearing fails after being installed by an approved installer (yes, at higher cost), at least you have a warranty or two parties to seek compensation from. Can you "load test" your bearing in any way to make sure it is not a bad part? My opinion as far as this bearing goes is to let someone else qualified do the work and have them absorb the failure risk (which is built in to their pricing structure). Not that I don't think you can't handle the project yourself, but because I don't think you'd want the risk of failure to be on you 100%. Down the road, if you do end up selling this car, a replaced IMS bearing from LNE is a good thing. A replacement bearing from ebay or whatever non-generally-recognized source has the potential to put the average buyer off. Just do you don't misunderstand, I also try to do my work myself and understand the idea of saving money and when it is a good idea vs. when it is not. If you do go ahead and replace this bearing yourself and you F it up somehow and the engine blows up while on your trip, will you blame your bearing, your labor, or the bad design?

" If the same bearing fails as supplied by LNE for example but installed by yourself, maybe you can get some help". I know one gentleman who would consider this an absurd "opinion" of course you won't read about it as the threads on that blog were shredded faster than Rosemary Wood's re recorded the Nixon tapes. Why not just change the bearing with each clutch?

KK, with really no sizeable historical data on the alternatives thus far, I would recommend bookmarking this and bumping this thread in a few years. Maybe by then you can come back on here bragging about your $45 bearing and the fact that you've put decent mileage on her and feel comfortable driving on 300+ mile trips.

I am quite skeptical that if a "professionally" installed LNE bearing fails that LNE, Flat6 or the installer are going to warranty the repair or replacement of the engine. Is this a written warranty that you have seen?

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No, however there does appear to be some sort of warranty offered by LNE. Scroll down to page two of the link from LNE below. I've also seen Jake post that all those people who keep the old bearing as a paperweight automatically are excluding themselves from any warranty. Prompt submission of the removed bearing is apparently a requirement for the "warranty". I do not know if the "warranty" covers repair or merely a refund of the cost of the bearing itself or even that. http://www.imsretrofit.com/wp-conten...msretrofit.pdf I have not looked into it, have not asked LNE about it, and do not know what exactly it would encompass. That being said, if I had someone install an LN bearing and said bearing failed within a certain timeframe (no, I do not have a timeframe in mind) after being installed in an engine that previously did not have an issue, I would certainly be looking for some answers from both the supplier as well as the installer. No idea how far I would get but I don't think I'd be happy about walking away empty-handed. I'm pretty sure I would report the occurrence on this forum just like I would report failure of a factory bearing. I'd also expect the concerned parties to have an interest in what occurred, which would be logical. I am in no way saying or implying that there is any reason or cause for concern with any of the manufacturers products or services, I have not availed myself of their products and have only heard good things about them.

Walter you do realize the Pelican $12 Japan bearing is the same quality as the OEM one? They claim its good for 40K. The CH bearings are from $35 to $45. Nothing special about LNE's or Caspers.

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To me that seems like a very bold and ignorant statement.

Alp, you can look them up for yourself if you don't believe it. In fact Pelican claims theirs is better than the OEM bearing.

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KrazyK, I don't doubt that the manufacturing spec/target may be the same for both bearing manufacturers, for all I know it may even be the identical manufacturer in both cases. (As an aside, I do wonder if in 2003 someone told Porsche the bearing should be good for 40k miles or what mileage?.) I also am aware that when a part is produced it generally goes through some kind of QC procedure (or at least a random sampling of the batch does) at the manufacturer. Further when an OEM supplier produces for an OEM that same batch is AGAIN tested upon receipt by said OEM and either accepted or rejected. I do not know what exactly Porsche does but it would be natural to assume that if one supplier was supplying product to both Porsche and to Pelican for example, then the batch to Porsche would be subject to AT LEAST the same level of scrutiny as the batch to Pelican. I know I would (or should) be looking at the Porsche batch at least as hard as the one to Pelican if I was the supplier. What I am saying is if two parts are produced to the same spec, I'd guess that if one of the two would be more likely to fail it would be the one supplied to the smaller customer, all other things being equal. In case I was unclear, I believe you may actually be OK using the Pelican bearing if we are talking probability of failure. My point was (and is) that the potential savings realized are FAR outweighed by the (unlikely) potential catastrophe that could occur. Some things it makes a lot of sense to DIY and find the low-bidder supplier, especially when the part carries the same brand-name on it. Some not so much. The ones that can leave you with a $20k+ bill are the ones I like to farm out. Again, that is just my opinion. It's not like replacing wiper blades if you catch my drift (although I'm sure more than one person has cracked their windshield dropping the naked arm on it by accident during the process!) Your potential savings is what, $300-$400 in this case? Cheap insurance. If the $10 replacement bearing in your SAI fails after you DIY it, who cares. If the $12 one holding your IMS in place fails, you will care and you will want to be able to pick up the phone and call someone about it. I do sincerely hope everything works out for you, I really do, I also believe you are capable of doing the job yourself. I am just giving you an opinion about the whole thing.

If you like to blame others when something goes wrong then get the LN unit. However I don't think you'll get anywhere with it. This might sound harsh but you sounds like a nightmare customer.

Walter, thanks for your opinion and I wasnt going to mention this on this forum but if you think a "Porsche Dealer" or "Indy" do flawless work think again. When I started removing the clutch slave cylinder, I found that the bolts were "finger tight". The last place to work on this car was a very reputable Porsche Indy when they replaced a bad trans mount at the dealers expense prior to my purchase. Imagine my surprise that an "expert" left two bolts loose that are important for proper clutch function. I am like Imre and many others here that choose to do most work themselves for whatever reason. If I do it wrong, I only have myself to blame. If you believe all the hype and secret nonsense about their "special" bearings thats your call. I chose the Imre route and researched the bearings to find the same ones their using. If you search carefully you can find where each company or purchaser has posted the specs, make, etc. for the bearings. In closing, I paid $165 for IMSB install parts not the $12 Japan made bearing. In Pelicans exact words So yes, Porsche entrusted your $20K 3.6 engine's life to a $12 bearing. Not that theres anything wrong with that. Just fact.

It's a bearing. Nothing fancy or sexy about it. Do you think Porsche QC's every bearing they get? That would be ludicrous! LN has perpetuated fear about the IMS and charges a premium for the solution. They show tons of pictures of trashed bearings and blocks, but I wonder how many IMS bearings have been swapped when the original was perfectly fine? This is the type of information that will never see the light of day because it would kill their marketing campaign. However, I believe the replacement they sell is a very high quality part and for some owners it is a solution best suited for their needs. Read the threads here regarding the IMS from Casper Labs, the owner chimes in and gives some insight into the testing and conditions inside the engine that cause failure. http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...ring/?p=215414 http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...ring/?p=215500

Ted how dare you disagree with the "experts" and post a common sense comment? Thank you, when I do this someone usually yells "Release the Hounds" and I am attacked until submission. Now if only Imre would have posted his findings where members could EASILY find them, the common sense "solution" would have been known sooner. More "common sense" solutions that get us in trouble: 1. Use heavier weight, high zinc content oil. 2. Frequent oil changes. 3K to 5K. 3. Dont SC a stock M96 HC engine. Im ready, release the hounds.

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I don't believe I said a dealer or an Indy always do perfect work, please don't put words in my mouth. I'm not surprised at what you found. I don't necessarily believe all the nonsense about bearings either. I do believe that anyone (very small percentage) who had their original bearing fail on a relatively low-mile motor picked up the phone to their dealer to say WTF. Many of those people had the engine replaced at no cost to them, for sure the ones under warranty and even some that were out of warranty. As unhappy as those people were over the circumstance, I am certain they were happy that someone besides themselves footed the bill. Now Porsche is involved in a Class Action Lawsuit over the matter. Like yourself and others I also choose to do (or at least try to do) much work myself, I get that. As I stated I merely gave you my opinion, no problem. You seem to have done the appropriate research. You certainly don't need me to validate your decision. I hope you have a great trip by the way and that you take that thing well up into the triple digits on the highway! :-)

Great job Krazy! Like I said in your previous thread, some people on this forum are going to fill their diapers when you prove that there is nothing "special" about their $500 monkey part.

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I guess time will tell but given KK's limited driving, not sure he would be the ideal candidate for a long term reliability tests of these generic/alternative bearings. He'll probably just do the install so he can up his resale value to only sell it and get a turbo.

I'm racking up my miles as much as possible too but time will tell that's for sure. Too early to jump to any conclusions.