C2 WITHOUT PSM in the Snow?

I have read around and can't find if anyone with this setup is doing it. Or they have killed themselves in a horrible snowball crash and can't post. With Snow Tires is it doable or being done? Ok, fire away

Regardless of if you get to where you are going, it will be fun. Up until you hit something.

No PSM here, and I drive it all winter on snow tires. Contrary to what you might think, you really have to be an idiot to get the car sideways and not be able to collect it back up again. It's great in the snow. Invest in the tires and enjoy yourself.

No issues getting started from a stop etc.?

Nope. The sole limiting factor is ground clearance. I leave it at home if the snow or slush is really deep. You may find yourself replacing the occasional brake duct. Chump change.

My limiting factor is salt. Bad for people - bad for cars! FYI: My PSM is my right foot.

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I know, it's disgusting. But my '00 has been winter driven in Toronto by all of its owners since new. Last week, when I had my indie do a PPI-style inspection for me, the body came back absolutely clean and rust free. This despite the fact that it's parked underground, which is supposed to accelerate corrosion. Porsche really got this right. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about it unless you think your car is going to be a collectible.

Anyone have pictures Bruce, no it will not be a collectible. But my wife has been insisting it be a C4. And they are not that easy to find. At a decent price

I don't have a picture of mine in the snow, but there are lots here who have some great ones. I do have a picture of it dripping filthy slush in the parking lot after driving to work. I don't post this, however, out of respect for the board's policy on images of violence.

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Now that's funny right there Bruce! No, I just hate the stuff they use around here and as my car came from Vegas and it's underside is a clean as the day it came out of Nevada - I don't want to spoil it. The other thing is ground clearance and the freaking winter potholes we get and the fact I already have a front wheel drive 'beater' for the winter along with the Mazda 5 to use and have no reason to drive the P car past mid Nov.

In Colorado, the state seems to like to use a combination of gravel and magnesium chloride. The mag choride is supposed to keep the water and slush from freezing, but this doesn't work. It actually serves to make the road greasy and corrodes your brake lines. The gravel is a rather efficient means to remove any of that unwanted paint on your car. I'd bet ground clearance will be more of an issue than anything else in the 911.

You can email it to me with the black bars across its headlights to protect its identity

SB, you also forgot they use the gravel so as to keep the windshield companies in business

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I get that. I was the same way with my previous car because I'd owned it since new. For some reason, I suddenly kind of fell into the "everyday sports car" culture of Porsche. It was even easier because mine had led a bit of a hard life when I bought it, so I wasn't as tempted to preserve it. For me, it's ended up being a fun way to own one. But I will confess this: Every couple of years I pay my indie to remove all the panels and fasteners under the car and steam clean the whole undercarriage. To the OP, one thing I forgot: my broken-record warning to keep the rads clean. My car's previous owners didn't do that, and although the body is great, the crap that collected around the rads soaked up brine from the road and held it there. The result was a pair of brand new radiators last year.

Media CardBlackBerrypicturesIMG00247.jpg This is the worst my Porsche has looked, covered with salt,sand,dirt....but driving it in the winter to ski was icing on the cake.

Oh the Horror! But it is fun to see the looks on peoples faces when you do something so unexpected in your PCar.

I drove in wet new snow from my home to the Mtn that morning, heavy snow the whole way...never had an issue with the conditions.

You do have a heavy flat 6 over the drive wheels - much more stable in the wet stuff compared to most other rear wheel drive cars, PSM or no.

I've driven mine in the winter for the past couple of years. The PSM really only kicks in when you push it too hard. During regular driving situations, it isn't an issue. FWIW, it was snowing this morning in Evergreen when I drove down the hill to DIA. Nothing too serious, but it was snowing. I'm a bit concerned about deep snow this winter, but we'll see how it goes.

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+1 agree- I just cleaned mine. It had a mountain of leaves and dirt packed in between the rads.

you'll be fine without psm, but if you're out there buying a car today, why not just spring for the psm? the main reason i wish i had it is because I'd feel more comfortable letting other people drive it in weather.

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What? You let other people drive it?

HT You would be surprised how many DO NOT have PSM. A majority if the CAB's out there are without PSM.

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That all depends on your age, mental age, and wintertime, adverse condition, driving experience. Slow and easy wins the day, something adverse to most Porsche 911 owners. There is also the question of the "other" driver...

Just watch out for cambers, turns over crests and downhill braking. As long as you're accelerating, you're fine, but if the tail gets unsettled and you have to slow down it's big trouble.

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That hasn't really been my experience. In fact, I never really understood the passive rear-steer properties of the Weissach axle until I got it onto a slippery surface. It was a lot better than I was afraid it was going to be (although I absolutely avoid braking in turns, it's true). On slippery stuff, the car never gets enough lateral Gs to unsettle the back end. I think you really have to lack finesse to get the car into a serious pickle. My .02.

I am sure with studded tires no PSM is not a problem in the winter. I have studless winter tires under my C2 and on icy road the car can be a challenge to handle. 996 C2 does not spin as easily as one might think but you have to be gentle with the throttle.

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haha nope, don't have PSM ah pardon my inattention, i missed the cab bit Tim, but i guess that's not all that strange, heck my 02 coupe has a rear wiper but no PSM. my point was only that it wouldn't cost extra in a used car, and there are a lot of 996 c2 cabs in the world. Plus you mentioned something about your wife driving it (which is why I highlighted the "other people driving" bit, I would just feel more comfortable knowing a poor throttle or brake input in the wrong gear in the cold in the wet would get shut down without requiring me to be in the passenger seat yelling about it). PSM can't raise the limits of traction, it simply tries to prevent the driver from overcoming the limits. So if whomever it is that will be driving is well educated on driving rwd in the snow, judicious in their inputs, and properly equipped with some skinny snow tires, you won't get any use from PSM. this really is the key for me - Hans

I have PSM on my '99 C4 and it rarely even activates. Honestly, I don't know that the AWD makes it any better of a winter vehicle than the C2, which is to say that either will work just fine until the snow gets too deep, at which point many vehicles don't work very well. Remember, we all drove for decades before PSM even existed and survived just fine. Winter tires are an absolute must, though.

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On a slippery surface, there isn't enough body roll for the Weissach axle to toe in the rear suspension. On snow and ice, you're stuck with your static alignment. Driving on very low friction surfaces in a rear engined Porsche does indeed require finesse.

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Absolutely.