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YOUR RESEARCHwhy are the 996 so cheap in price compare to 993
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Read evidence and context
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The housing and construction industries were in high gear and the illeagle immigrant problem was non existant in most areas.
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(check the current value of those!) But I got them at their points in the curve when they didn't have the status of a new car, but weren't old enough to be collectible.
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main price delta is due to number of 993 made vs 996 made.
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I don't think it was warranty, it was the economy.
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(check the current value of those!) But I got them at their points in the curve when they didn't have the status of a new car, but weren't old enough to be collectible.
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Check current value of those!)
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(check the current value of those!) But I got them at their points in the curve when they didn't have the status of a new car, but weren't old enough to be collectible.
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The engines got a bad rep. Intermediate shaft failures (IMS) ,Rear main Seal leaks (RMS), cracking heads, complete engine failure..... I think thats the whole and only reason. The tranies have their share of issues.. But if you ask me, all porsche trannys had a glitch or early wear issue of some kind... It always seems to be syncro's.
Well, beause they made a TON of 996's compared to the 993, it's called supply and demand, also the 993 has the distinction of being the last air cooled Porsche.
yea, thats my point... the "poon" causes 996 prices to drop because she forces you to sell it ......
GEEZ - I never see Gretch unless I post something really stupid!
Because markets are unfailingly wise, never emotional, and inevitably correct.
Well, except for that dot com thing.
Oh, and real estate.
I guess gold, too.
Enron.
Bre-X.
Tulips.
But, you know, otherwise...
You forgot Beenie babies - what was that all about?
It is interesting that many 993's are garage queens because the owners are concerned about getting over 60k miles and losing value. While there are many early 996's with close to 100k or more. They were driven instead of thought of as investments.
996's just don't have that "investment" halo, since so many were built. And they really took a beating when the economy dropped.
Yup.
The real truth about 993 values is that people aren't selling them. That always lights a market up. Nobody seriously believes that markets are driven by objective supply and demand anymore, not even commodity markets. The more people hang on to them, the more other people want them... emotion drives markets, whether it's for Porsches or for wheat futures.
Simply put:
In the late '90s the economy was terrific. Most everyone that was working had discretionary income. You could blindly pic stocks and receive an unbelievable return. The tech industry was bursting and the dot com sector hit pay dirt. The housing and construction industries were in high gear and the illeagle immigrant problem was non existant in most areas. Everyone was spending money and lots of it. Those making a lot, were buying high ticket items.
There was a waiting list for Boxsters and Carreras. There were virtually no late model used cars to be found as they would get snapped up as soon as they were traded in. I remember going to the local P-car dealers and seeing no inventory in the way of Boxsters or Carreras for at least a couple of years. If you wanted to see a car in the flesh, to had to get permission and go into the service area.
Many of these cars were heavily optioned as well, as those special ordering them would pile on the goodies. I was lucky to find my '99 cab just off lease that would have sold for over $100K out the door.
Now that the ecomomic bubble has burst, the toys from a prosperous era remain. The prices are reflecting what could now be considered over production of a luxury item, a product manufactured when discretionary income was the norm rather than the exception.
None of the above economic factors played a part in the manufacturing of the 993.
Hmm. Not even looking at '95s which can be had at even cheaper prices.
'96 993 74K miles for $23.8K
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false
BillJ sold his 02 996 90K miles with a new engine at $26.5 asking
https://rennlist.com/forums/for-sale...k-6-speed.html
I will now wait for a response on how these two examples are not true to actual market trends. The matter of fact is that 993 prices have come down regardless of how many "aircooled" fans are trying to keep the market value up.
Uhhh... no. Not even close.
The real story (according to Ludvigsen and Frere):
By the mid-90s the aircooled engine had reached the end of its development life cycle. Porsche concluded that it was impossible to certify a next-generation aircooled engine to the emerging emissions regulations in the European Union and the United States. Simply put, they had no choice but to develop the next generation 911 flat six as a watercooled engine.
At the same time, the Harm Lagaay-designed 993 was a beautiful evolutionary development of the 911 shape. Many argue it is the most attractive 911 of all time (I agree, and secretly lust after a 993 C4S - but in NC needed real air conditioning!).
As for the 996, starting in 1998 attractive lease rates and a strong economy allowed Porsche to sell lots and lots of Boxsters and 996s. The build numbers of these cars are huge compared to the 993. For example, worldwide Porsche sold ~9,000 993s in 1998, the last year of aircooled manufacture. The next year they sold over 28,000 996s!
Simply put, the price difference between 993s and 996s is a direct effect of supply and demand combined with the 993's beauty and cache as the 'last of the aircooled cars.'
Have potential reliability problems hurt the 996? Maybe. But every 911 model has had its expensive quirks, from exploding airboxes and chain tensioners to the 964 and 993 leak problems. Sadly, this is par for the course.
All the reasons and whatever the excuse. First you can say the 993 is the last of the air cooled but later its the 996 is the first of the water cooled for the reason its expensive. Give it some time and the reasons change.
Hate to keep this going, but.
1. These are asking prices, not selling prices. What did these cars sell for?
2. You don't think a new engine with a warranty helped the 996 selling price?
3. North Carolina vs. arkansas pricing?
Bottom line is that a 6 year newer car with a new warrantied engine was asking $2,700 more a plain jane 993.
You can't be serious..
1. If asking of the 993 is lower, the chance of it being sold 15% higher than asking price would be high. In this market? Unlikely.
2. Premium of a new engine - Perhaps $1,000 or less than the cost of buying a warranty because a warranty will cover more parts.
http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/9...ew-engine.html
3. There is a difference between NC and AK in car prices if you are buying out of state?
what a debbie downer.. You are no fun in this sandbox..
Last fall, I sold my '97 993 coupe (6-speed) which I had owned for 9 years. Recently, I bought a '99 Cab w/hardtop (6-speed). So far, by way of comparison I would say the 996 is a more desirable daily driver as it is quieter, and the extra interior room is appreciated. Performance-wise, I see little difference...so far.
The two biggest differences are (a) instrumentation (993's = great; 996 = sucks), and (b) engine sound (993 = more vintage; 996 = quieter, and power build-up is more linear).
relinuca
Ignorance is bliss. The 996 is the better car. The 993 owners will never admit that even in downtown Dallas traffic in late August when it is about 120�F outside and the air cooled engine is creeping up toward 300�F oil temps, and the 'air conditioning' can't even THINK of keeping up!
Must be the 993 had better colors and can lower easier with chrome wheels
Or maybe because cops don't call it a camaro.
Could be its worth it since the a/c and cooling suck.
Actually its a manopoly attempt since everybody will be driving a porsche.
what ever you read out of your book dude.. I wanted one for 3 years before I bought one.. I watched what happened right in front of my eyes. 1.5 yrs ago you couldnt touch a 996 for under 30. then as all the warranties expired and the cars got a little older where an after market warranty could not be put on the cars.... The price REALLY dropped by 50% or more in fact. Then Give an after market warranty a call and ask them to put a warrenty on your 110,000 trail blazer, the answer will be Yes with some limitations,, then ask them to put one on your 110,000 996 the answer will be a flat out NO..... You will get a reality check really fast. of why our cars are not worth anything.
993 owners drive their cars? They all seem to be in their garages. They don't want to add miles and 'devalue' them.
996 owners are daily drivers. Daily enjoyment - who cares about miles.
I was in the same seat. Couldn't believe 996's were suddenly in my budget. Not complaining.
I don't think it was warranty, it was the economy. With the bad economy you had more cars coming to market, people losing their jobs, and people no longer able to buy toys with mortgage money. Perfect storm. Also the 996 buyer didn't have the 'investment' mentality. For many it was their 1st Porsche. After a year or so they find out the real cost of ownership and bail. But DIYers can afford them.
wow, the irony of this post is great. You calling people ignorant and then you make a retardly ignorant statement.
Any 993 that hits oil temps anywhere near 300 degrees has serious mechanical problems. Considering the high speed fan comes on around 240 degrees, 300 will not happen. In 90 degree temps sitting in NJ parkway traffic, my 993TT never got above about 210 degrees, and thats without me turning the high speed fan on. In other words, you are FOS, as usual.
Furthermore, if you buy a sports car because of how well the air conditioning cools you when sitting in traffic in the middle of the city, perhaps its best you have a 997. When you actually want to enjoy driving, try a 993.
993 owners drive their cars plenty. yes, some people would rather leave them in the garage. Then again, judging a whole group by a few people is pretty ridiculous, don't you think?
If you had to sit in Dallas traffic in late August you wouldn't be a 993 owner, otherwise you'd be somewhere nice, like Palm Springs, or South Beach or Beverley Hills.
Most of us with 996's would NOT trade for a 993. Atleast I wouldnt. I respect the 993 and like them but not as much as my 996. Just not a big aircooled guy....I like them but dont want one.
Caution, Rant:
It's odd to me how our perceived value of something is influenced by age. Some things (paintings, some cars, etc.) increase in value as they age. Some things like electronics become worthless pretty fast.
The difference in prices between 993's and 996's are fantasies. A car is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. As long as I can get you to believe that my older, discontinued design is "better" -- I'm going to benefit from that. Further, I get to feel superior!
I think it's vitally important that you stay away from a newer car with lower maintenance, better parts availability (especially in future years), better ride, is faster, better fuel economy, more room, better ergonomics. For now, it even costs less! Why on earth would you burden yourself with those things?
Virtually every car goes through a cycle of where it's cool to be new, then it gets old enough that it's uncool and can be had cheap, to when it becomes more interesting (to varying degrees) and its value goes up. Even Edsels are collectible!
There were times when you could have had a Shelby Cobra for about $3,000. I bought a '67 275 GTS Ferrari for $7,000; a '69 911S for $4250; a '65 356 SC for $3,300; a '65 Austin Healy 3000 Mk III for $1,800. (check the current value of those!) But I got them at their points in the curve when they didn't have the status of a new car, but weren't old enough to be collectible. I saw them as interesting cars and didn't give a rat's *** about what other people thought. If they were willing to sell me a good car at a great price--my gain.
ALL automotive engines are air cooled. Some simply transfer heat in different ways. People go on about the 993 being air cooled, but in some ways, it was more oil cooled than air cooled.
Just a crock of B.S.
But I suppose without it, what would we talk about? What color to paint our wheels? ugh.
Your point is valid when we’re talking about a daily driver, but for some people the experience you get in a 993 is superior to that in a 996 no matter how many advantages the latter has. You have to admit they do drive very differently although they have many similarities. For those who want to smell the oil burning in the exhaust, hear the unique air-cooled sound, and feel the perceived solidness of the platform then there is no substitute for the air-cooled car.
This doesn’t make the 993 better than the 996, but just different in the sense that it touches upon a different part of the driving experience. For me, I appreciated all of those aspects when evaluating which car to purchase. And I was VERY close to buying a 993, but since my car is a daily driver I figured all of those points you touched upon were more important to me at this point in time then the traits the 993 offers to me. And I’m extremely happy with my decision. But again, it’s a personal decision.
HMMM I have 996 & 964 personally I would sell the 996 with no worries. But I would never let go of the 964 I guess it is personal choice. I feel the older cars have more character. The 996 is a better daily driver thought. I like the 964 for the sound the looks the design build etc. These 1990 cars where ahead of their time odb two port,ABS ,cruise,climate control,twin airbags,power steering all in a classic car.
Having had several air cooled Porsches, I am not missing the air box heating problems and the engine smell everytime you turn on the heat. Also sitting in traffic for long periods of time and the engine overheating because there is no air flow, watching the temp gauge just start climbing as time wears on.
Thankfully, someone with common sense.
"Better" has many definitions. 993s are much better than 996s in just as many ways as 996s are much better than 993s. People from both camps who try hard to prove that their choice is the "better" one must suffer from a severe case of insecurity. They are different cars that appeal to different markets and they both have their strengths and drawbacks. That is all. Man, it's like debating religion...90% of values are the same yet everybody fights over the other 10%. They're all Porsche 911s people.
I don't know about you guys but I want a 993, and a 997...and a CGT, a 951 a 928GTS.... and a 73RS... and... well, you get the idea. They all have something to offer as far as I'm concerned.
having just gone down this path I can honestly say.....I would swap my 996 for a 993 so freeking fast if you blinked you would have missed it
in fact I DID swap my 996 for just a plain ole high mile 911 - nothing fancy at all and I am VERY VERY HAPPY I did !!!
that said I loved my 996 and will always remember it - i would own another one in a heartbeat too... they are (or at least mine was) great cars!
I'm a California native living in the humid South. No aircooled car that I have ever been in had adequate enough AC for me. When I looked to upgrade from my (very well airconditioned) 968, the 996 was a no brainer. If I lived west of the Rockies I probably would have seriously considered an aircooled car. I think the 993 is the best looking 911 of them all.
That said, I love this 996 and am sort of glad that the AC issue pushed me in this direction. It is so much more modern and refined than a 964 or 993 - while at the same time faster.
When i was in high school the 3.6 single turbo was the top dog, and while i liked the 959 style lights on the 993, I felt like it looked just plain girly next to the 965. soooo wide, and those 964 gen cups are still fast.
i was a 996 hater when they came out, the shared parts forward of the a-pillar made me think why not just a 986 S, until of course i drove a couple of 996s. Get up and go! For me the 3.6 996 was a no brainer, great chassis, distinctive looks, all the power, most of the updates, amazingly reliable as a Daily Driver and cheap to own. I did shop 993s for a while as well, and, to RF5BPilot's point, in 2007 I could have had a PCA member owned well cared for 993 in the mid to upper 30s, less than I paid for the mk2, but I wanted a car that I could drive a LOT, and not be afraid to break.
I still wouldn't kick a 993tt out of bed, but I'd be much more likely to choose a 997 when it's time to retire the 6, because I want a car I can drive a lot, with a warranty.
Of course if i could have a few of these things, I agree with the gang, I mean I want so many variants from the 50s to current: a chopped black 356 speedster on some big mags with some surfboard foam widebody flares for the beach, a mean RS for HSR class, a 930 turbo and flatnose just to detail on Sunday mornings, a 964 turbo S and speedster for straight shock and awe, the 993tt-s just because c'mon man, a 6gt3 cup for the track, a 6gt2 and some software for the dragstrip, a 7tt on snows as a winter beater, my current mk2 as a commuter, a real 550 to rub with a diaper and whisper sweet nothings to, and one of those hummer golf carts to get around the airplane hangar with). I'll post pics when I get done writing this show about nothing.
tru, makes u want to sell ur porsche, cause my model porsche is better than ur model porsche, i guess too many of these guys think because they drive a porsche they r somebody!
It's all about supply and demand. When an item is rare it fetches an exorbitant amount of money.
I can tell you this though....when I am driving my 996 on the track, I've never felt like, gee! I wish I can get a 993...not even the 993TT.....they are NOT fetching the prices for their performance.
Do I love the look of the 993 better than the 996...mostly... the only exception being my C4S, which to me is better loooking than having the whale tail, but love the size of the 993 so it's a draw. The interior is better with the 993, especially the instrument cluster...now, I digress so let me stop........
main price delta is due to number of 993 made vs 996 made.
which is better car? define better.
buy as many and drive as often as you can.
i got about 250,000 miles on all sorts of p cars.
the time spent arguing which is better should be spent driving!
At the time of each Pcar I've owned, I always thought that one was the best, but you are right...why waste so much time debating which is best, it really boils down to whether you like your Porsche regardless of which year, or model it is.
I'm personally in the middle of this,,, whether to go with 964/993 or cheap 996.
I'm personally worried about IMS & RMS issues on 996. Let me rephrase what I've just said,
I'm extremely worried about the "catastrophic failure" on drive train, which I have no choice but have it towed to the local P-shop.
Not all engines are perfect, but the magnitude of catastrophic failures w/ early 996 isn't acceptable for my personal moral character, keeps me steering away from looking at 996s; excluding 996 turbos; but me being N/A guy, sorta don't want to own turbo vehicle.
decisions decisions.....
Thanks, I doubt the P-shop will install the aftermarket stuff, will have to ask around to see who can handle this locally.
btw, is this it?
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html
