Today - test drove 2001 vs 2002 996 C2 coupes ...

Howdy All, Today, had the opportunity to go to my local OPC to test drive two very different cars ... 2001 Lapis Blue Tip Coupe 18" wheels 40kms AUD$129K (USD$98K) 2002 Arctic Silver Manual Coupe 18" wheels 23kms AUD$149K (USD$113K) I know those prices seem pretty dear but we do pay a lot here in Oz, being so far away and only about 800 cars a year sold through OPC's. Thought I would like to get an auto as my last 911 (a 964) was manual and wanted the lazy option of driving in 'D' in traffic. The 2001 tip car was a lovely specimen, with silver centre console and white dials. The auto option allowed me to get a more definite nod from my wife. Guys, can't quite put my finger on it but I was left a little under-whelmed by the whole test drive of the 2001 996: *The 911 growl was not quite there *The first generation boxster-like headlights (although clear front and back) didn't really do it for me. *Even though I was able to "lock in" the gears using the tip shifters, still felt like I was a little removed from the car. (i.e. 'not at one' with the car) Came back thinking, should I be looking a a 993?!! Then I saw a manual 2002 996 in Arctic Silver. Took her for a spin - WOW! First gear really kicks booty! I was really surprised at how well Porsche finally have got the clutch action (though my 964 had a really great clutch, nothing like the 3.2's) So now I am almost convinced that a 2002 'facelift' 996 is the way to go - in manual .. unless the manual gearbox/clutch is the same or similar in a <2002 model? From what I have read and saw, I get the following from going for (this?) 2002+ car (in no particular order): * Less KMs travelled (23KMs vs 43KMs), newer car * "Current" look (996 C4,Turbo/Cab/Targa/GT2/GT3 are still selling in this guise in Australia as only the 997 C2 coupe has been released) * Not as Boxster-like looking from the front * Better Headlamps * Nicer front & rear bumpers with less lift * Better Exhaust note by far! * Larger, 3.6 l engine (extra 20HP) * Car Computer included as satndard on that MY onwards * "Discreet when not in use" Fitted Cupholders as standard * Sales guy said better suspension but I didn't really notice on my test drive. *** DID I MISS ANYTHING? *** Does anyone out there have a manual 1999-2001 MY 996 and is it worth test driving one of these to compare apples with apples (i.e the tip 2001 with a manual 2001?) If I found a good one, at the RIGHT PRICE (and I'm talking about AUD$115K) I could put up with the older headlights, lack of cupholders and do something about the exhaust note. At just AUD$20K more (before negotiation) the 2002 MY seems a lot more car for the money! Mark Strachan ex 964 C2 Manual Coupe soon to be 996 owner!

Obviously my comments will be bias becasue I own a 99 C2, but I have driven alot of 3.6 engines and e-gas 3.4 and the NON E-GAS seems to pull longer and smoother. Now, could the average driver notice? I am not sure. IMO, as far as perfromance goes, there is little difference between the 99 and the 2002 with the 3.4 engine pulling better.

Ah, a fellow Aussie! Its been a while since I have been back. I have a 2001 C4, and I love it. I smile every time I see her. That said, I bought in October 2004 and the difference between the 01 and 02 C4 was pretty dramatic. I would in the end however, prefer the newer model just for the longer warranty. I have not driven a 2002 or newer 996 but I can tell you, if they have less front end lift at speed, that would also be high on the list of reasons to go 2002. As for sound, I am sure you could get a Fabspeed exhaust to take care of that. From the sound of things, depreciation on P-cars in Oz is pretty low. Considering the low number of cars, it sounds like that is not as much of a concern as it is in the USA. So, the risk of the 02' from that perspective, also favors the 02'. Damn, now I want a younger car! Eh, I am 30 years old, I have time.

[QUOTE=MS911] *** DID I MISS ANYTHING? *** Glove box !! electric engine compartment and luggage compartment releases !!! Matt (not shiny) switches !!!!!! Fat oval tail pipes !!!!! Get the facelift !

Sounds like most of the difference you noticed arises from manual vs. tip. My 2001 C2 felt as strong as 02 or later. Perhaps you should drive an older model in 6-speed. I do agree that the interior improved for 02's. I don't think basic drive/feel of the car changed.

I have owned an 00 Cab and now have an 02 Cab. There are a lot of differences between the 02 and earlier cars in chassis, suspension and body. The front and rear spoilers reduce lift 40% and 25% if I remember the numbers correctly. While the 02 feels faster due to a nice jump in torque, the extra weight makes the car about the same in 0-60 tests. I do prefer the 02's touque for driving around town; you can just put it in gear and go. Both are good cars but I think the 02 is worth some extra money having owned both... Good luck. Roy

Can you guys not import cars from the US or Europe? In the US you would pay half that price for a car and you have a ton of pickings...Freight I'm sure is expensive, but not to the tune of $40,000....just a thought--prices in Oz are INSANELY out of whack with the RoW!!!!

VentoGT: Given its ties to UK, the cars are right hand drive, thus drive on the left hand side of the road. So, any imported cars would have to come for England or Japan. I know they are expensive in Japan, not sure about the UK.

I have to agree, though equally biased by now I drove a number of 996's, 99 through 02 cars, and the 99 Cab I ended up buying has a super strong feel to the engine--3.4 non- e.gas. The six speed is smooth and easy, and the sound is excellent--especially from 4k to redline. At that point it sounds downright awesome. Mine has the large oval tips from factory so the look is nice as well. The clutch is a little more difficult to manipulate at take-off than my 3.2 and 3.6 964 used to be. I have read that that is a function of the hydraulic clutch. Whatever. I love the car. As for the looks, I actually like the first generation lights. They flow nicely with the design of the front end. Geert

VentoGT: Given its ties to UK, the cars are right hand drive, thus drive on the left hand side of the road. So, any imported cars would have to come for England or Japan. Not if he was driving in reverse. The reverse gear has some awsome power and he would also be able to drive in the left lane and have the steering wheel on the centerline side making it easy to see around the car in front (or is it in back) of him and faclitate safe passing.

Mark, Glad to see you managed to drive both cars. I had a similar feeling when I drove the 00' tip before I purchased my 02. At the same time though I think the tip is a bit sluggish and you wont be able to really tell the difference till you drive both in the same flavour. The manual transmission in the 996 is definately an easier beast to manipulte than the 993 and 964 clutch. I had a 993 for 4 hours in city traffic and my left leg got a good work out. Definately enjoy the 02 clutch. The other advantage you have is that if you purchase the car from PCM they will give you 1 year factory warranty and you can extend it from there for a maximum of 9 years (cost is AUD$1450 per year - just extended mine). Also with the cars the exhaust is fairly placid. Unless you hear a car with PSE they sound fairly ordinary. At the same time though, if you pick up a 99-01 car it will leave you a bit of extra cash for some mods like: exhaust, suspension and internal trim upgrades or better yet a supercharger . Even in my 02 I have upgraded the suspension to Bilstein PSS9, upgraded the exhaust to PSE and made quite a few internal cosmetic changes. I have made the decision that I will be keeping this car for a little longer than first thought. The 997 doesnt do it for me just yet and the power increase is not substantial enough for the depreciation hit. Also my car has only 14K km on it. Also on the note of importing a car it is a no go zone for us. Unless the car is older than 25 years old the tax and custom duties make it rediculous. The import would cost more that the local product - I have looked into it

Good Idea on driving in reverse (don't know how good I would be getting it up to redline!!) ArthurK, Idodn't check the 996 forum yesterday so missed your response above, so I sent you a copy of my original post - disregard this. Tell me what is PSE for the exhaust - Posche Sports Exhaust? If so whats the cost and time involved (AUD$ pls) If I got a pre-2002 996 then this looks like it might be the way to go. Does PSE increase HP asw ell or just sex up the sound? I think it's only fair to drive a manual pre-2002 996 to compare with the manual 2002 996 I tested. Cheers, for now ... Mark

Mark, Great to see another Aussie on the board, and one from my home city to boot. Just arrived back in the US from 3 wks in the home country....ahh the delights of Melbourne in Summer I'd go with the 3.6 litre with a manual, the added torque over the 3.4 is well worth the admission price. Also PSE should really be standard.....it is without question a no-regret option on the 3.6...and shades its equivalent on the 3.4.

MS911 - it sounds like you had more fun driving the manual (my pref too) than the tip. IMHO - enough to swing the vote for the '02. Down the road, with the '01, do you think that you might regret picking the older car with less hp? It's all about the fun. For me, I just hope you get one of them and then share pictures with us kristap

Yeah, would like to test drive an '01 manual but spoke with PCM and they arre quite rare, apparently (as trade-ins perhaps?) I will look at test driving an <'02 996 in manual privately perhaps just so I can compare. From what I've been told may (say 2 out of 3) 996's sold in Australia were Tiptronic, that may explain why I see twice as many tips as manuals out there. Will the PSE on an '01 model make a big difference to HP AND SOUND or just to one of these? Best, Mark Strachan

HP difference is negligible. On the 3.4l the exhaust note is improved with PSE, however the improvement is less compelling than with the 3.6l...

Hi Mark, I'm no expert here but I do have a good book at hand! A few things I just gleaned from from Paul Frere's excellent book, Porsche 911 Story 7th edition relating to MY 2002 improvements: -Wider max torque band with the 3.6L engine (basically flat at from 4000 to 6000 rpms at 360Nm) -Heaver built 6 speed and tipronics in 2002 -Cup holders -Glove box -Huge aerodynamics improvements of 20% reduction in front end lift and 40% reduction in rear lift in MY2002!! -20% increase in torsional stiffness Many of these factors lead me to limiting my seach to MY2002 up when I was in the market recently. If I had to pay the prices you're looking at down there I would have probably limited my search to a Hyunda!!! Good luck Stuart

so if the 2002 has "less lift" there is more downforce right? and if there is more downforce won't that slow down the acceleration on top end... above 100 mph...??

At 100mph we would be in the can and have no license to speak of in Australia

Yeah, my first P-Car (964 C2 Manual Coupe) christened me into the 100mph club! I have a cop to prove it! No tickets for 13 years and then a whopper - w/o cheese (4 months off the road after a day in court). I have a holiday house on the very twisty and picturesque Great Ocean Road where (although they have recently reduced the speed limit to 80 km/h) you can still have some fun - legally - even if you wanted to take it to 100km/h (the former speed limit on this GREAT road) you will still be below the threshold set for suspension of licence (25km/h over posted limit). Anyway, that was 3 years ago now and I'm over it, well my therapist says I will be soon ;-) If someone tells me how to include a pic, I have a pic of the Gt Ocean Road so you can see what I mean :-)) Best, Mark Strachan

GOR....took a Peugeot 205GTi down there at slightly inane speeds...early morning Sunday...sun cresting the waves...should have taken a picture...or 3

Drove this road as well all the way to Port Fairy (sp?) starting out of Melbourne. What a fantastic road! Loved the whole area actually (Dandenongs, Ottways, etc.). Even looked into a place on the beach in Apollo Bay, but for some reason the Australians didn't want us to buy there...too bad, some 5 years ago the prices for real estate on the beach were super compared to our beach areas in the US. Geert

For those interested, this is the road I take to get to my weekend house ... (the Great Ocean Road, past Torquay and Lorne in Victoria, Australia) Mark Strachan

Oh .. and before anyone asks - yes, this IS the view you get when you take the first turn out of Lorne too quickly!!

The 996 is catching its second wind and becoming a sought after classic Porsche 911 variant. I just bought a 2001 C2 with 33k miles. It was a 2 owner car and I paid $36k. Its truly is like new. $14k of preventative maintenance was done in 2022... 3k miles ago. Sorry for the super large pictures!

... this thread was from 2005, and that poor guy was trading in a 964 for a 996 ... why'd you make him suffer that decision all over again?