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YOUR RESEARCHwhy replacing the trailing arm when doing Lower Control Arm ?
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Adjust oem eccentric enough
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Suggestion
The reason most people end up using these items on a lowered car is not to correct the Kinematics of the suspension geometry...its because they can no longer adjust the OEM eccentric enough to bring the Toe settings back into spec during a normal alignment.
why replacing the trailing arm when doing Lower Control Arm ?
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Leading evidence: 'Adjust oem eccentric enough' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust oem eccentric enough' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion
I know when I have done solid bushings up front on 997's, I have had to change the track arms to IIRC, the 996 arms for everything to fit properly.
why replacing the trailing arm when doing Lower Control Arm ?
Run over)
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Suggestion
They transmit undue shock into the system on a street car (every pot hole, road debris, dead animal, poor jr's toy you run over) that will never benefit from the Bump steer (if you are driving your car hard enough on the street to utilize these items, then you belong on the track) or Monoball's application into the suspension.
why replacing the trailing arm when doing Lower Control Arm ?
Run prepared / gt skip them
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Unless you only do DE's, Open track or want to run prepared / GT skip them
why replacing the trailing arm when doing Lower Control Arm ?
Use non bump steer adjustable toe arms
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Suggestion
We are talking about your statement to use non bump steer adjustable toe arms on a car that "you might lower too much".
why replacing the trailing arm when doing Lower Control Arm ?
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Adjust oem eccentric enough
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Suggestion
The reason most people end up using these items on a lowered car is not to correct the Kinematics of the suspension geometry...its because they can no longer adjust the OEM eccentric enough to bring the Toe settings back into spec during a normal alignment.
why replacing the trailing arm when doing Lower Control Arm ?
Run over)
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Suggestion
They transmit undue shock into the system on a street car (every pot hole, road debris, dead animal, poor jr's toy you run over) that will never benefit from the Bump steer (if you are driving your car hard enough on the street to utilize these items, then you belong on the track) or Monoball's application into the suspension.
why replacing the trailing arm when doing Lower Control Arm ?
Use these items
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Suggestion
The reason most people end up using these items on a lowered car is not to correct the Kinematics of the suspension geometry...its because they can no longer adjust the OEM eccentric enough to bring the Toe settings back into spec during a normal alignment.
why replacing the trailing arm when doing Lower Control Arm ?
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I see that suncoast is selling a Lower Control Arm kit but it includes the 'trailing arms' as well.
http://www.suncoastparts.com/product/CamberKits.html
I have never heard of the need to replace this arm when doing the LCA, anybody can help me understand why it might be needed ?
Those are not the Arms that control the Toe... These control the Caster. Porsche list the ones I referenced as "Track Arms" or "Lateral Link". When you lower the car ( to much) you can loose the ability to bring the toe back into spec with the non-adjustable stock versions of the track arms.
the thing I wonder if that the 'trailing arms' in this picture (the two at the bottom of the pic), are not adjustable, or are they ?
They look quite like the stock version, but I just a newbie
These are not adjustable and do not need to be unless you want to start tweaking the Caster settings....
These are what you would need to consider if you lower the car to much. and start adding excessive camber.
Chris, those toe arms pictured are not the ones you would want if you lowered the car. The units you would want are the bump steer adjustable units like these......
I would not use those on a street car. Also, they are not allowed in Stock Class PCA racing. Unless you only do DE's, Open track or want to run prepared / GT skip them
Chris, that makes zero sense. We are not talking about a stock class car. We are talking about your statement to use non bump steer adjustable toe arms on a car that "you might lower too much". Whether you adjust toe by rotating a turnbuckle or rotating an eccentric, there is no way for you to correct geometry on the toe arm when lowering the car.
As far as monoball units, that is an entirely different story.
My statement was " I would not use those on a street car" also, "I am not a big fan of the Monoball units on anything other then a full race car"...
They transmit undue shock into the system on a street car (every pot hole, road debris, dead animal, poor jr's toy you run over) that will never benefit from the Bump steer (if you are driving your car hard enough on the street to utilize these items, then you belong on the track) or Monoball's application into the suspension.
You can place them in your car if you like and I will install them if that is what you want... BUT, I will advise you of the positive & negative effects of placing Racing Parts on your street car.
The reason most people end up using these items on a lowered car is not to correct the Kinematics of the suspension geometry...its because they can no longer adjust the OEM eccentric enough to bring the Toe settings back into spec during a normal alignment.
the MonoBall will increase the suspensions effectiveness by removing compliance in the system.... Again this is what you are after in a race car. On the street it sends each and every thump & Bump into the chassis as well as the cabin.. Even under hard street driving you will not notice the improved performance, only the increase harshness.
These are just my opinions from my experience... at the end of the day it has to be what you are after and what fits your goal with the car.
I plan on tracking it mostly
but still not a race car.
would the monoball put the car in track car territory ?
I don't think I ever driven a car on monoball so it is hard for me to have an idea. harshest I have ever driven I think was the stock dodge viper, which was still ok for the street IMO
Get suspension and good seats plus safety equipment for the car followed by a lot of seat time is all you need right now. When you start buying better tires and brakes in bulk, then spend the money on a GT3. I don't think there is a need to dump all this money into a C2. They are very capable cars already.
And I agree with this... That was why when phil and I spoke off line that I asked how low he had planned on going (I suggested the X74 ride height) and that if he went to go lower that this was something that he might have to consider.
At the X74 ride height (even up towards 2 1/2 degrees Camber) the OEM Track Arm is capable of enough range to keep the car into proper alignment,
Right now I have
- Gt3 euro seats
- Tequipment bar
- Harness + Hans coming soon
- Row030 suspensions
- Brake pads PF06
- Sumi htrzIII
My next move is to put PSS9 suspension and hope to get better camber while I am In there
That it after that all money goes to track time
Likely depends on the model. For instance, when you change out those bushings where the track arm attaches to the control arm with solid bushings, the width of the thrust arm doesn't match up. I can't remember for sure, but there was a difference in width between the 996 and the 997 arms. I know when I have done solid bushings up front on 997's, I have had to change the track arms to IIRC, the 996 arms for everything to fit properly. So, i assume with these arms, maybe the bushing width is different.....Notice in your picture how the bushings are flush with the arm, and not sticking out on each side about a half inch......
edit:
This is why I document everything.......pic in a sec.
I would suggest you add GT3 sways and adj droplinks with PSS9s if you go the PSS9 route. Otherwise, just get X74 and be done with it. No doubt the PSS9s is a better performing setup but if I had to do it over again, X74 would be my choice instead of PSS9s, adj droplinks and GT3 sways.
The pictures above are from a 997, but I guess if you were going from a 996 you shouldn't need the arms then if the control arms are a direct swap...gotcha
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
