Help! Need opinions of Ruf, Roock, Cargraphic, Strosek, Techart upgrades

Hi Guys, In the midst of embarking on a 996 upgrade project, I've been researching the tuners/manufacturers overseas a bit and am wondering if anyone has significant experience with their products. Any opinions of the quality of Ruf, Roock, Cargraphic, Strosek, Techart and other European tuning products beyond what's been written in magazine articles?....Meaning, I'd like to hear from people who've actually used their products to upgrade the performance of your Porsche. Please share your "highs" and "lows" of the experience. I'm trying to cut through hype and find out what REALLY works well in terms of: � Body/Aerodynamics: good fitment and material � Suspension: handling improvement over OE, quality and serviceability � Wheels: finish quality, durability, lightness, desirable offset and width � Powertrain: power, drivability, installation ease, service support � Interior: quality of materials and fit, durability over normal use I know there are plenty of race and tuning shops here in the US that can install parts that do similar things to what the Euro's offer, but I'm primarily concerned here with looking at European-made upgrade products in this case and getting real-world experiences, good or bad. THANK YOU for your candid input! Much appreciated.

Which model do you have?

'99 996 C2, but this isn't really a model-specific question, it's more of a picture of experiences upgrading any models that I'm after. Some people may've upgraded a 993 or 996 C2 or TT and I want to hear about all of it. At some point, I'll get a TT also to upgrade, so all of the input is really important. Thank you.

I think I would stick with Ruf or Techart. Not a big fan of Strosek style and Rook does not have the best reputation. Not even sure Rook is still in business, I thought they were closed down.

I shouldn't have used "opinion" in the thread title, what I'm really hoping for is for first-hand accounts of user experience. This isn't a question of style so much as quality material, fitment and engineering thoughtfulness--I've outlined the factual questions in bullet points above. Sloth, thanks just the same for your thoughts anyway. Any other posts, please keep it to first-hand experiences with the products. Thank you very much, I'm looking forward to hearing your experiences as related to the bullet points above and any additional commentary you find important to share.

SORRY...I forgot to include GEMBALLA! (Gearshift was engaged, but brain was stuck in Neutral!) They're also a good one to consider since they do approach things similarly to Ruf in terms of engineering and aesthetics combined. Add them to the list of considerations and those users I'm hoping to hear from. Thanks!

Ruf. The rest of the tuners are a bunch of also rans, to borrow and old racing saying.

I seen Gemembella cars and the body kit fits good and looks good if your into that. From what I'm told that many of the tuners use more or less the same suspension componets. I'm told most of them use H&R, but some of the tuner might have valved the shocks different. You willnotice a big handling difference in new shocks and springs, but it also depends how much stiffness can you handle. As far as engine upgrade I have been pondering it for sometime now and the short answer is that nonee of it helps significantly. I talked to Andial (builds engine for Porsche Motorsports NA) and they sadi the most significant upgrade is the X51 or adding cams with a ecu to your enginge. The problem is that these upgrade are worth only about 25 HP and cost over $10K. The best value is supercharge, but I am warry of its reliability. Exhaust is purely for sound RUF is the best sounding, but you cant go wrong with the OE PSE. As far as wheels it a personal choice. Most of the tuners have them manufactured by a rim company like Speedline. (RUF). I like the HRE style and finish, but its not the lightest wheels. Fikse and Kinesis also makes good forged wheels.

Not so--both Cargraphic and Gemballa have extensive professional racing experience actually in GT3 and GT2 internationally. Ruf is classified as a manufacturer in Germany, so they are a bit different in that respect, but it's really semantics. I'm going to sit tight and hope someone chimes in that's actually had experience using the products in question on their own cars. Thanks for the opinions, everyone, but that's not what I'm going for here. If anyone has a web link or resource they can recommend to find real comparisons and first-hand usage input, that's much appreciated. Is there anyone out there who has ACTUALLY USED the tuner products and done a full upgrade to their 996 and/or purchased a completely built car?

oh really, like which teams? i agree with dj 996 on ruf, and i'm speaking with someones elses' experience. the best upgrade for a base 996 is to just buy a gt3 or gt2--as the factory delivers it... but that's just my un-informed opinion.

I had a Ruf exhaust some time ago on my 996, it was very high quality, better than OEM. Just too pricey nowadays with the exchange rate. How's that for personal experience .

I'm not a race historian, but a quick online search for Gemballa popped up GrandAm team with Randy Pobst at the wheel, and Cargraphic GT2 racing at Hockenheim. They've been racing 911s for years in Europe. Please, I don't mean to (and am unwilling to) debate racing here, that's off the topic. I want to find someone, anyone who has modified their c2 with upgrades from these tuner product companies who can share their experience. As for the "attention *****" icon, that's very funny, I didn't see that one until now. Is my post in the wrong forum? Is there another one that deals specifically with mod's that would be better? Let me know, thanks everyone.

Thank you! Finally a first-hand report, however small. That's what I'm looking for. Have a good day, and let me know if you think I should post somewhere else to find more tuner mod users who could chime in.

Didn't the Gemballa 650 own the Nurburgring record for modified cars for quite a while ? I have the Gemballa exhaust for my 01' C2 and it is very nice. Great exhaust tone, and very good fit & finish. All that being said the retail price on a lot of stuff from Ruf, Techart, Car Graphic, etc. is very high. You pay a lot, you get a lot. You are in San Diego, you might want to give www.evoms.com a look. They have a great reputation with the people that they have worked with, and they are an easy drive for you as they are over in Arizona. They have a nice GIAC ECU upgrade/CAI package, or if you are looking for something more substantial they have a very good supercharger install. Good luck

Yep, and actually that record was set in a STREET car, not a fully-prepped race car, all the more shocking. Thanks for the feedback on the exhaust. As for EVOMS, I spoke w/them and it sounds like the SC system hasn't been torture tested on track yet, and that's one of my criteria. I don't want to pump up the motor and grenade it. Initial reports of their system look good, but I'm a slow adopter so I'll wait to see how durable it is long-term--kinda like upgrading a computer OS...I wait 'til all the bugs and patches are stabilized before installing mine and torturing it. In the case of my car, I'll maintain it well, and will drive it hard on track, so I want to use upgrades that are proven under heavy activity over a long test period. This durability, in addition to good fit, finish and materials is what I'd call a really good product.

From personal experience, Ruf stuff is all good and well made but expensive and engineered to Porsche standards, but Ruf makes road cars and does not have the experience of say RS Tuning or Manthey whose engines are honed on the track. Roock used to race and had a good rep but recently that seems to have soured -I have never used them. Cargraphic - I have their mufflers which are very high quality and made by Phoenix in the UK - they work with RS Tuning in developing their parts using engine dyno and track experience, I would highly recomend them. Strosek -never used, but rep is high quality bodywork and expensive, they use RS Tuning engines. Techart - I have a steering wheel from them, very good quality. I once spoke extensively with a Techart exec at the Essen Motorshow and they are dogmatic about the testing which goes into their parts and their quality. FVD are another tuner similar to Cargraphic but I detect a little BS coming from them sometimes, but they have a great range. My wheel arch extensions are from FVD as is my special 980NM clutch and LSD. If you need more info, please be more specific about which parts you are thinking of getting, and maybe the 996 board is the place to post ?

Thanks for the input. I'm interested in all the performance parts, body parts, suspension, everything. I want to focus first on naturall aspirated, and then later a turbo car. Many tuners claim power increase with their part on the NA cars, but I've heard most of it is BS. I want to deal with power upgrades that are real for NA cars, and I don't want to go to turbo until I'm satisfied with all the NA upgrades.

I have had extensive experience of RUF for just over a year now, They generally go above and beyond whats needed. Yes theya re expensive but the quality and craftsmanship that goes into the product is second to none. Our R turbo developed a turbo leak where the turbos were only working at about .6 bar. My father phoned Mr RUF- who was embarrassed and shocked by the car, and within 48hrs the car was in pfaffenhausen, after two ruf techs brought a truck and trailer. And Just FYI the gemballa ring lap time was with a car with racing tires and race fuel, driven by a very good DTM driver, far from what you would find on the road all the best adam

FWIW Roock enjoys a good reputation in Europe. Their business shut down in the US only because of issues between partners and paperwork legislation, but they are still well operational in Europe and are well respected. No affiliation, just first hand info. Their main issue is not being good marketeers. As TB993TT said, among the most respectable reputations in Europe are definitely RS Tuning and Manthey Racing. Jean

Is that a RUF front end on your car ?

Factory Turbo S front lip.

I can only speak to RUF aerodynamics at speed (2000 996 w/H&R springs on 19" wheels). I find it to be very stable at around 150 mph in a straight line compared to stock. The fitment is great and have had no issues with warp-age etc with the high temps hear in summer sunny Arizona. There are only 2 settings for the angle of attack for the rear wing. Hope this helps some.

OP, You will build a much more potent machine if you look to individual specialty shops (listed below) instead of purchasing "performance packages" from brand name tuners. Also, I would address the M96's weaknesses before upgrading other areas of the car. Engine: http://www.flat6innovations.com/ Suspension: http://gmgracing.com/porsche_suspension.shtml Body: http://www.mashaw.com/ http://www.gettydesign.com/

Have a full Techart body kit on the car. I bought the car with it but the receipt said it cost about $11,000 so for that price it better be damn perfect. I removed the front bumper the other day and was shocked at how light it was! I bet it only weighed 2lbs if that. Also the fit and finish on all the pieces are excellent. Just my opinion.