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YOUR RESEARCHTempted by Conti Extreme Contact DWS all-seasons!
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So I installed the Michelin Pilot A/S Plus last week.
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It really changed the handling of the car for the worst.
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I replaced a set of non XL Conti Extreem Contacts with the XL DWS tires and it was a very noticeable.
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also ran the Bridgestone AS960 PP's on my old Saab and they were a pretty damn good tire for an All season.
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As I stare at my 17" winter rims and tires, piled neatly on top of each other, waiting for me to install them when it gets colder...swapping out my 18" twists and 3 year old Potenza Pole Position summer tires.
How bad would it be to just sell the winter rims, and get Conti DWS all season tires? They get such great reviews, if I'm not tracking my car, wouldn't they be fine? I'd love to keep my 18" twists on all year, and avoid the back breaking tire swap twice a year.
All-seasons are best for No season. Only you can decide what works for you but there is no substitute for Winter tires in Winter weather. I bet my life on them.
If you are considering All Season rubber, take a look at Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position. I have no idea if they are serviceable in snow.
They perform well in rain and dry conditions. The tread wear has been excellent and they are quiet.
Jeff
Andy,
I have friends with Nissan GT-R's, BMW M5's that run all seasons all year round. When they track their cars they put on slicks. I actually plan on doing the same.
The reasoning - which I believe - is that the modern all season tire is actually a better winter tire especially on an AWD car because it grips better than a pure snow tire when it's cold, but dry.
Where I live in Boston, it's mostly dry and very cold in the winter. When it snows hard, the city clears out the snow pretty quickly - so it's mostly either melted snow (wet roads) or dry cold roads - and a MODERN all season tire will stop quicker than a pure snow tire. It certainly won't have the grip of a pure snow tire when there's an inch or more of snow on the ground, and certainly not in the ice, but it definitely has the cold weather performance (pliability) during the freezing temps.
I think if you commute long distances in snow country, All Seasons are NOT a good idea for winter. You don't want to be in an unploughed highway white knuckling all the way home. But for a city slicker like me - I think it might work.
Now, onto which A/S tire. I bought the Continental DWS for the BMW. It really changed the handling of the car for the worst. The side walls are very mushy and the tires have made it downright boring to drive the BMW. Not dangerous - but just not as responsive.
I then talked to my other friends in other high performance cars and they all said the same, and they all went with the Michelin Pilot A/S - which is what I plan to do as well. It costs 40% - 50% more than the Contis but I think there may be a reason for it
Good luck with your decision.
"Fine" is a personal call. I don't think that putting all seasons on is going to cause your car to explode in a ball of fire the first time you turn a corner. But it's a bit like putting rubber boots on an NFL wide receiver. Fine if you just want him to rake the lawn. Not so much if you want him to run, change direction and catch. So the real question is what you expect from your car, not whether all seasons are okay or not.
This is a good all season tire. However, you will lose alot of performance in warm weather and they are not even close to a good winter tire if you have to drive in snow. I used theses on a 3 seires BMW and much preferred the winter/summer tire swtches. I now drive a 997c-2 with oem bridgestones and Michelin Alpins in the winter. I have been very pleased with this setup in the New York Metro area. We only get a relatively small amount of snow lately but even so, the car benefits greatly from having the right rubber for the season. Having said that, I do think that the tire you are looking at is a very good all season choice if you go that route.
Was tempted by the same choice. Seems that they are getting good reviews and great traction on light snow. Would put them on my 17s and purchase a separate set of 18s with track tires.
FM
I would think so, All seasons are a compromise on a performance car. I even have a winter/summer sets for the Cayenne
That said, I have the Conti's on the wifes Allroad and they are fine for her
also ran the Bridgestone AS960 PP's on my old Saab and they were a pretty damn good tire for an All season.
Sorry, but I think that's physically impossible. If there were a way for an all-season tire to be anything but a compromise in one or all seasons, that would immediately become the gold standard in tire technology. Again, I believe it's limited by physics, not technology.
So I installed the Michelin Pilot A/S Plus last week. It was about $1400 installed.
Here's my impression:
1. It is NOT as planted in the dry as my Summer Toyo T-1R's, taking the same on ramp I do feel more squirm. BUT it is VEEERY close.
2. It gets near freezing temperature at night in Boston now. It feels much more stable. The tire remains pliable. The summer tires turned into hockey pucks
3. It is a MUCH more comfortable tire than the Toyo summer tires. Car absorbs bumps and expansion joints with ease.
4. Tad noisier
No snow yet - but will report back.
Those are some expensive A/S tires! More comfy, but noisier, huh? Are you using them as winter tires, or did they replace your Toyos?
I'll probably install my winter wheels/tires this weekend, or next. Booo! Bring summer back!
I have driven extensively in the snow on summer tires(c4s) and never once has the car felt loose or unsafe. I think you'll be fine with all seasons, as long as you don't push the car in unsafe conditions. Try it out and see how it is. If it doesn't work out, you can always go to snow tires next season.
So I think I'm going to see if I can run them ALL year.
When I do DE and AutoX I will run the Toyo T1R on a spare set of rims.
They are noisier because the tread design is frankly quite aggressive in terms of siping and clawing surfaces for snow/ice.
No, they don't. Where do you get this info from?
Winter tires are not only more pliable, but their compound is much softer, their tread design creates more bite and (generally speaking) the size variations create better stability.
My Pirelli Wintersports stops my C4S much quicker in the snow than any all season tire possible could...because it was designed to...same goes for dry but very cold.
Same way my summer tires would stop quicker, turn better and launch faster than any all season possibly could in the dry heat of summer.
All season tires are compromises. Like a jack of all trades. Good at everything, expert at nothing.
The only conclusion I can come to is that your definition of loose and unsafe is radically different than mine or that your tires aren't actually summer rubber. My C4 (with narrower rear tires than your C4S--considered to be an advantage in snow) is downright dangerous in slippery conditions. When I install the winter tires, I have to physically try to get the car out of sorts.
I'm not sure how different people with the same model car can have such drastically different opinions of driving them on summer tires in the snow, but I do know that it's against the laws of science for a tire that works well in the heat to also work well in the cold any more than someone saying that wearing a winter jacket keeps them comfortable all year round.
I got caught out in light snow once with Pirelli P-Zeros still on the car. It was the scariest 10 mph drive home I've ever had in my life. Summer rubber is absolutely dangerous below 40 degrees. I've had my winter wheels and tires on the C4S since October.
Well, I don't know why others have had such a hard time on summer tires in the snow. I used to regularly take the car on snow camping trips on those tires, and the car pretty much drove the way it drove on regular ground. Of course, I was not taking turns fast, I slowed down extra for turns that I thought might upset the car. By dialing in smooth steering and throttle input, keep the rpms low, I was able to get by just fine at speeds up to 40 mph(straight line) on those tires. PSM never came on, the rear end never came out even a bit. I believe they were Contisportcontact 2's at the time.
In the snow the car takes more time to settle in a corner, but once it's settled the dynamics seemed to be pretty similar to regular driving.
As for rain driving, well I've autocrossed this car in the rain, and it felt quite stable on the summer times.
Edit: It just occured to me that there are different types of snow. The snow driving I'm talking about was on Yosemite National Park roads with 5 feet of snow on them. It was quite heavily compacted. I have no idea how the car will drive in loose snow.
I just did an autocross in the rain on Saturday where the temps were in the 30's-40's. They certainly did not get hard... I actually placed 8th raw that day.
Its simple fellas....
Summer Tire = The tires to use in the Summer and drive 'flat out'
Winter Tires = The tires to use in the Winter and drive 'flat out'
All Seasons = Used by drivers that swing both ways...
Thats it. I am sold.
Getting rid of my stupid winter Pirellis and their rims ASAP. I will drive on my excellent summer Sumitomos all year round knowing full well how good they are in the snow, cold rain etc.
When I drove with my Pirelli P-Zeros on snow, I would brake for a stop sign at 5 - 10 mph and it would take me a HUGE amount of time to stop... PSM and ABS kicking in like crazy. Also, when I finally got home, I couldn't make it up my driveway, which at that time was not very steep.
Not yet. I'm dying to get out there, but haven't yet had time. Arapaho Basin and Loveland are now open, and we have lots of snow in the forecast. I'm hoping to get out between Thanksgiving and Christmas, and certainly plan to spend lots of time on the slopes from January through April.
Guys, frankly here's my take on it:
1. Not all all-season tires are created equal - just like not all summer or winter tires are created equal. There's a great variation to them - I personally have experienced enormous swings in traction, wear performance from tire to tire - even in the same category.
2. The Michelin Pilot Sport A/S seem quite well rated for all year use - including light snow and slush - which is the limit to which I will drive the P car during the winter. I have the luxury of dedicated parking spots at both home and at work, and I live 7 mins from my office - so if it gets crappy, I'm taking the cab.
3. Before getting into P cars, I drove mostly BMW's with REAR wheel drive for 20 years with all season tires and the differences between the different all-season tires (contitouring, Michelin MXV4, Goodyear Eagle RSA etc etc) were HUGE during winter and summer driving. The Michelin was HEAD AND SHOULDERS above the rest, but were always 50% - 100% more expensive than the Continental or Goodyears.
4. When I want to go very fast, I track my car at a track - not the street. And for that I will use a dedicated setup
5. Regarding the question on whether the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S has better traction on DRY roads in cold weather than Michelin X Ice or Dunlop Wintersports, I have to dig up the source - but I do recall that in a traction test they did better on DRY roads in the cold (and of course crappier in the snow/ice)
6. So I am going to be guinea pig and try these out and report back so please quit lecturing me. I made the investment already, and I'm going to try these out and report back - so why not wait for the results. It's not like I just criticized your religion or family...
I liked what I read in a test track report on the conti extreme contacts where they were tsted along side of big name tires. They are actually better than most big price tires in dry and a lot better in wet. They are exactly that (extreme contact) in dry and wet. Snow has to have ice and snow tires as far as I think. Been there and done that hopelessly wondering where the car will end up sliding away.
Bought a set of these. I have run bridgestone pole positions and also p zeros
on my car. The contis are quiter that either , and make the ride a little softer.
I would also say that they are not as tight in handling. Bridgestones are the best in that dept due to very stiff sidewalls.
Contis should wear much longer based on ratings. Much cheaper to buy. < $900 tire rack for 4 tires. The contis are great in rain and are a good tire with
fine performance. You lose a very slight amount of handling and gain $400 for
spending on other things every 18 mos.
Why woudn't you put them on the C4S...Is there any issue with going from rear 305 width to 295 as far as the viscous coupling is concerned?
I've got them on a 996 C4 and a GT3 for normal daily driving duties.
I recently put a set of 18" Conti Extreme Contact DWS tires on my '99 Carrera 4. So far, I have been very happy with them. I was able to work a deal to get a set of 4 from the local Discount Tire for $830 installed. Then, I sold my 2 take off front Michelin Pilot Sports for $110 on ebay, making my price out the door $720.
They are much quieter than the Michelins were and so far I haven't noticed any significant handling deficiencies. Bear in mind, I do not normally encounter snow and I do not track this car. Your usage and experiences may be different than mine...
I have the ContiExtremeContact DWS tires on my Boxster, which is my year-round daily driver. Do I like them...yes. Are they as good as a summer tire during summer months? No. Are they as good as a winter tire in the winter? No.
However, in my case, I have put convenience before all other considerations and having one set of wheels/tires as my objective has been satisfactorily achieved.
As an aside, I have Michelin Pilot Sports on my 911 which work great until the temperature sinks below 40 degrees.
Quite well for my use. They are still very quiet and sure-footed, even in some of the torrential downpours we have seen this summer. They definitely give up a little bit of feel and sharpness compared to the Pilot Sports the car had previously, but nothing that I really notice in regular driving.
Sounds good to me! For my occasional spirited drive on the weekends, I really don't need two sets of wheels and tires. And, with my back not in great shape, changing the wheels every 6 months is getting OLD fast!
I'm suprised that no one has mentioned what the DWS stands for, dry, wet and snow. Guess what's the first to go??.........the snow capability-you can see the 'S' in the tread going away along with the snow capability. I run them on my Volvo 850 R dd, but here in PA where you are either going up a hill or down one, snow tires are the way to go. I did run the DWS's in the snow and it's not even close to running dedicated snow tires. Someone mentioned something about a soft sidewall, see if the size is available in an XL load rating, it's got a stiffer sidewall. I replaced a set of non XL Conti Extreem Contacts with the XL DWS tires and it was a very noticeable. A bit firmer ride but turn in was markedly better. Just my $.02...
Any idea how long / how many miles it takes to wear off the "S" treads? And, when the S wears off, are they still all-season enough to not turn to hockey pucks in the cold - like summer tires do?
Put the dry wet ones on at the first of the month. They tend to track some on grooved sections of hwy during dry conditions. The sidewalls aren't as stiff but they do seem to track well in wet and thick water. I didn't bother to test the trackability while in deep water too much at uh extra speed since other cars were around. But the tires did seem to cut through the water with out a noticeable hydroplane when entering the deep water coming out of the tunnel into the heavy rain. Guys in front of me forced me to slow during the best part of the heavy rain but the tires did seem ok at extra speed levels.
I ony eat shaved ice / snow cones. I save the driving in snow for when I don't know better
I haven't experienced that so far, but admittedly I only have about 3K miles on them. I can't stand vibrations and shimmies either, so I hope that isn't in my future. Time will tell, I guess...
Thiss ^^ should be required viewing for anyone who believes that "all season" tires are anything but a compromise tire.
A/S tires provide less than optimal summer or winter grip, period.
I can't speak for everyone, but my experience has been very satisfying in all seasons, with 20,000+ miles on this set of tires. No vibration, no adverse handling/ride from bad wheel balancing, or any other negative characteristics. Keep in mind, too,we have very few days of snow covered roads since state, county, and local governments are usually diligent about snow removal.
For more information from people who have bought these tires, Tire Rack presents extensive survey results on its website, and also tests tires. As I recall, these tires were rated by their owners as pretty competent in winter/snow conditions for what is basically a modern, advanced design all-season radial tire.
Good luck in your search!
You are, of course, correct - you'll get no argument from me. But for the person who wants an all-season solution, these Continentals are an excellent choice (and perhaps the best choice) among the array of available all-season tires.
I don't think the original poster is getting the idea that Z-rated summer tires or winter tires are anything but superior for the use for which they've been made.
Rather, I think his question is: "If I want to buy an all-season tire, which one should I buy?" And a more than satisfactory answer would be: "Continental Extreme Contact DSW."
Exactly!
More like, "If I choose to compromise by getting all season tires, what is the best option for my non-tracking, mostly street and highway driving self?"
Yea, but it's only an all season tire for the first third of it's tread life......... so next winter you can buy a ..........snow tire...
And yes, I do own a set of DWS's for my DD, but, also have a set of snow tires for the white stuff and cold weather.
My dedicated snow tires are Pirelli Snowsport 240's that were manufactured in '02 - but used lightly, and still have all tread. Are they too old to use (or sell) or if stored properly, OK?
Well, not exactly. Here's the tire's description from the Tire Rack website:
The ExtremeContact DWS (DWS for Dry, Wet & Snow) is Continental's Ultra High Performance All-Season radial developed for drivers of sports cars, sports coupes, performance sedans and sport trucks. The ExtremeContact DWS is designed to satisfy their year-round driving needs by blending dry and wet road performance with light snow and slush traction.
ExtremeContact DWS features an advanced silica-based, high-grip, all-season tread compound molded into a unique asymmetrical tread design with stable shoulder blocks and a continuous, notched intermediate rib on the outboard side to enhance responsiveness and cornering stability. The center of the tread features independent blocks separated by high-angle, crisscross grooves to provide the biting edges necessary to deliver wet road and light snow traction while independent inboard shoulder blocks help disperse water to further enhance hydroplaning resistance and foul weather traction.
The ExtremeContact DWS features Tuned Performance Indicators — visible letters molded into the second rib from the outboard shoulder to alert drivers of the tire's performance levels. A visible "DWS" indicates the tire has sufficient tread depth for dry conditions, as well as wet roads and light snow. After the "S" has worn away, the remaining "DW" indicates the tire only has sufficient tread depth for dry and most wet road conditions. And after the "W" and "S" have both worn away, the remaining "D" indicates the tire has appropriate tread depth for dry conditions only.
The tire's internal structure includes twin steel belts reinforced with spirally wound jointless nylon cap plies to provide long-term integrity under high-speed conditions while reducing weight and helping to provide more uniform ride quality.
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I think it would be fair to say that, as with any tire, some of the DWS tire's capabilities become compromised as it wears. First would be the tire's snow performance, then its wet weather performance.
However, the all-season nature of the tire (e.g., compound softness, etc.) remains throughout the tire's life. But as the tread wears down, the tire's ability to perform at its previously high level begins to wane as noted above. Still a very good tire, however.
As an owner of both the DW (on the 968 Cabrio) and DWS (a set I will use for Seattle "winters" on the 996 when the Auto X Potenzas come off) I really think these tires are a great choice for the Price for us Non Racer Boy everyday drivers. And yes I also have a dedicated Ice tire (for my A6 Quattro) for ski trips to the mountains. EVERY Tire made is a Compromise. The buyer gets to pick what works for their vehicle and weather and driving style. Modern tire tech has given us great options to pick what work for us. And I love the data and opinions we can get from Tire Rack - they make each of us look like an Expert on tires (no matter how "smart" we think we are :-)
