**HAPPY RESULT** RE: IS this THE IMS bearing noise? (Pls listen to the sound clip)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_x7-SShft4 PLS tell me it's not !

if it is you have only seconds till its GAME OVER - where is the noise coming from? - there are other things it could be but you have to be very careful running it... it might be savable if it is as long as you dont keep running it could also be something else.. I would have it flatbed trailered to my shop and DO NOT RESTART

It is a clacking sound - intermittent. It is the first cold morning of the season, the engine was not yet warmed up...

I hope its something else, I have listened a few times and cannot issolate it...only those who have experienced the IMS failure know what "marbles in a can" sound like....maybe they can help - I would not run it

could be an broken water pump impeller - is your antifreeze good for the temp?

sounds like timing chain(s) slapping around... but its really tough to tell... seems pretty loud because the video was from inside the car?

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I put the camera under the car...

is it louder towards the middle of the car or the rear? (IMS would be near the transmission, waterpump on the rear bumper) could also be the throwout bearing - if you press the clutch and it goes away, but with that noise I would be very reluctant to restart it to check

Clacking is sticky valves from first start in the morning. I have that sound and is smoother/less clacking at high idle (1200 RPM). Once the SAI shuts down and idle goes to normal (750 RPM), then the noise is more noticeable. my engine is at 95K miles. Your sound is not rhythmic so I don't think its valves or IMS. Can be a loose clip or something else. Idler pulley? Cars make strange noises in the winter when cold. Does it still make that sound after a 30 min drive?

The best possibility is its was the engine crackling from heating up like you would hear the opposite when hot things crackle when cooling. Your car is making less noise than I do when waking up inthe morning. This doesn't say much since I'm in a horrible condition right now

It sounds like it's really slapping around in there. Doesn't sound like broken bits but a loose bit.... I wouldn't rely on an internet round table to figure this one out.

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That was my first reaction to hearing the noise. Replacing the chain guides and installing the IMS bearing update isnt really that difficult. If one is able to drop the engine, changing the guide ramps and the IMS bearing is very possible.

I have a slight rattle sometimes as well. I think mine is an exaust shield or bracket.

yea, as Chris and Ed said, get it to a shop... If its chain slapping that "could be" due to ims shaft being off center OR just missing/worn cam chain tensionet pads... maybe even a cam actuator not actuating and the top cam chain is bouncing a little... at any rate if it is a chain bouncing there is a high possablility it could jump timing then you have a real issue - again, flatbed it to the shop, hopefully you have a really great shop who is familliar with M96's and knows they can be fixed and not just thrown away My thoughts are with you today, I am hopeful this is a simple fix. i feel your stress and am routing for a possitive outcome

yours is a 3.6? the actuator theory is out... that would be more for a 3.4 as Ed said, soumething sounds loose and bouncing about/slapping hitting on occation...this is not a heat shield or a warm up crackling

I am flat bedding to the dealer - waiting for the tow truck. Unfortunately I have to push it down the garage (no flat bed can fit)

BTW I called Fidelity Warranty Services (the after market warranty company). The already started a claim. They knew about the IMS bearing problem for 996 and 997's. The claims adjuster said he has done 2 claims all year on the IMS and has paid out for full engine replacements. I asked if it was painful. He said they have policies with "thousands" of 996 owners and he said 2 claims is a pretty good ratio.

Hope it is nothing major, but you seem to be covered regardless. GL w/ diagnosis...Herb C?

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thats a good record then.... As for the noise, location of where the noise will tell you alot.... if its in the area where the tranny/engine meets... then you did the right thing by taking it in.

With coverage its a differant game, I hope it gernades and you get a replacement motor Well, I do - that would be a great thing wouldn't it?

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I totally agree!!! What an ideal situation!

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well.... the insurance co said they would cover it. So yeah.... a good thing.

I asked hypothetically if it's an engine replacement if I could take it to an indy. The warranty adjuster said the problem with an indy is that they may not want to, or be able to pay the upfront $15k - $18k for a new engine, and so a dealer is easier to work with.... I argued wouldn't it cost them less - and he said it really wouldn't matter to them - which I find weird. Anyway, so - finally a warranty company was able to give me SOME type of stat of IMS failure rate...

But anyway - does anyone have any guesses as to what the diagnosis will end up being by listening to the noise? I can't believe any of the previous IMS grenade owners aren't chiming in!

Failed/failing timing chain, lifter carrier failure, or IMS bearing failure.. More than likely. Pull the sump plate and oil filter and see what you find, but DO NOT run this engine again, even for 10 seconds!

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unless you have a warranty just kidding, you need to prevent further damage, that is your responsability now if the tow truck driver were to drive it out of the garage.....

[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://lh3.ggpht.com/_hT8qMT4cV7E/TP5-7wUVajI/AAAAAAAAARA/dxYFg9UXHx4/IMG01612-20101207-1317.jpg https://lh4.ggpht.com/_hT8qMT4cV7E/TP5-8JWpdBI/AAAAAAAAARE/NX9TzDmcxiw/IMG01614-20101207-1318.jpg

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BTW the engine was running perfectly fine - pulled strongly on the way to work, no check engine light, no shuddering...just this awful noise

I hope its back home soon keep us posted

which taillights are those?

dfg

I am with everyone here who has said, don't start it up again! It sounds as though something has let loose inside and is just waiting to wreak major damage to your engine. Porsche engines are not supposed to sound like a Pachinko machine.... It is great that you have a warranty and that the company is being cooperative. I wish you the best of luck and hope that you are back on the road soon!

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The guy has just sent his baby in for life-saving surgery and you are asking him about his tail lights?

oops....my car has a weird sound too that it just developed. I haven't been driving it and drove it the other day and there is a weird sound, I was thinking maybe it was the belts or something cause it sounds fast. It is also do for its 60k service..i do feel for you man

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If engine purchased from PCNA and through a authorized Porsche dealer and installed by a qualified tech the replacement engine and labor is warrantied. An indy shop may not offer any warranty and there have been reports, well one I remember, in which an indy installed motor failed and the indy had to work like H*LL to get the engine warrantied. Let the car go to the dealer and get a new/remanufactured engine. Sit back and relax. Did the insurance adjuster tell you how many serious engine claims his company denied? Sincerely, Macster.

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Excellent question to ask, but I doubt he will tell you... I really would love to know, however!

Tom? (yellow Turbo?)

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They are the LED tailights I bought from Amazon - Actually my FOURTH set (the other 3 were junk and broken)...

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LOL I am going to drink a cold one and try not to imagine the worst

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Yes - it's at the local Porsche dealer now. They were really good about it. Tow truck came immediately, he pushed the car from the fourth floor garage to the truck waiting outside (fortunately not an underground garage !) and flat bedded it to the dealer. Dealer called me right away and assured me the service valets nor the techs would start the car. They will start the tear down tomorrow and let me know the diagnosis...

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They can run just fine and that can stop in a heartbeat.. They generally run better just before they stop running. When an engine has a mechanical sound, it is never good and never will be. Thousands of dollars could be saved if people just didn't continue operating engines that had noises. Noise= STOP.

***UPDATE*** - They dropped the oil pan - there are bits of bearing material - most likely the IMS bearing. Tech thinks they could do a flush and install LNE bearing - but being that it is a Porsche dealer, they do not do that, and warranty company doesn't recognize it as repair. SO - they are going to recommend to the warranty company for a new engine.

since the dealer "cannot" repair it due to "Mother" then yes, the replacement is the only option. Stick to your guns. The story: The motor cannot run, cannot be repaired at Porsche... the MFG. I will not accect taking it to a place other than the dealer that fixes thing to the approved level even though its highly possible it "might be" repairable. The only thing you dont know on a LME bearing is if one can be installed. The end of the IMS (part the bearing goes into) can become distorted and damaged to the point of needing to be replaced. That can only be done by complete motor tear down (minus craddle) and IIRC the dealer can do that but it might cost more than a crate motor good luck, I am hoping for the best outcome.... did you get a loaner car?

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Excellent solution! I'm glad everything went accordingly in this ordeal!

I am impressed that this noise was it, nothing so scary at least form the youtube video. I also have Fidelity warranty services and when I subscribed, I specifically asked about the bearing issue and they said it would be covered if it was the point of failure. I am curious to see if they will honor their words ! Knowing that it is a pretty special case of early discovery of the bearing failure. Did Porsche told you how much the engine replacement will cost ? part / labor ?

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Early? that is the LAST POSSIBLE SECOND of discovery.... literally in one second it could be catistrophic, once the bearing ring (part that holds the ***** uniformly distributed around the circumfurance of the bearing rrace) is gone, all the ***** can go together and then the center race pops out of the outter race (thats how they make bearings, all the ***** on one side, slip the inner and outter together)

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$25k parts and labor...

I just meant that this guy was really wise to stop the car and flatbed it to the dealer, I bet there aren't many people who can resist to the 'one last short drive to the dealer'. I know considering I leave so far from the dealer that I probably would not flatbed it unless the noise is really really scary. At least it is good to know that metal in the oil pan is a sign that can be checked for. I wonder if the oil filter also showed those metal traces ?

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a cayman

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yes oil filter had it too....

btw dealer said this is still a very rare failure mode. the last one was a 997.1 the year before, but today mine and another 996 have the same failure....

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agreed! If he was footing the bill out of his own pocket he at least has a slim chance he saved it by not running it longer

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sweet!

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yes - tech thought an indy could flush and install lne if there was no warranty

PROVIDING - the gear wasnt beat to death... and that still remains to be seen (or replaced and never seen) - though I would want to see it if I could (after they agree to a replacement)

Ok the question now becomes what is going to happen to the old engine. Is it going to be returned to Porsche as a core? Is it available? Someone might want to buy it cheap and see if the bearing can be replaced. If not then sell the misc. parts.

Doug, you are incorrigible!! (but right) Are you looking for a "cheap motor" or just "always thinking"

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he said it gets shipped back to Porsche...

Glad to hear that things are working out well so far, considering the circumstances. As others have said, stick to your guns and demand that they replace the engine sourced from Porsche. $25K is a lot of money for any kind of repair. What does a GT3 motor cost?! I am sure it is a lot more, but you can't knock a guy for askin'... IvanGene, no yellow turbo for me... just my humble 2000 C4 Cab, Black/ Savannah.

thank god my exhaust is so loud that I cant hear a thing.. at least i can enjoy the car while driving it instead of listining and worring about every noise. :-) hahahahaha

I have to say, even though this happened to me and other RL'ers, speaking to my warranty company and my local dealer (which is a VERY high volume P car dealer) - IMS failure is still rare. There were somewhere around 180,000 996's made and then you add the Boxter I'm sure the number of M96 engines run well past 250,000. One can only guess at the number of IMS failures but I'm pretty sure it's a small percentage. Enjoy your cars in good health! I know I will.

This is a classic example of why engines that make noise must not continue operating!! even for seconds! Don't be surprised if the warranty company fights and you are out a car for 3-4 months. thats been my experience with IMS bearing failures covered under warranties. Get ready to deal with someone who is absolutely lost as an adjustor and the admin people are a PITA and generally suck. If the collateral damage hasn't compromised this engine, it can be saved with the IMSR procedure, more than likely. Good luck, if the warranty company pulls through let us know, start documenting EVERY phone call and use email as a way to time and date stamp dialogue. These guys like to talk on the phone, so they can't be as easily quoted, so be sure to record your calls with them and let them know they are being recorded. You can't take this too far, expect that this will be a fight and batten down the hatches.

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Oh, thought you were someone else.. Let me know when you want me to buy you that beer I owe you, (I dont owe you but it's a nice jesture ehh )

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Some Porsche dealers do this repair. A couple of years ago came across a 996 engine torn down -- in a Porsche dealer service bay -- for IMS bearing failure. Tech told me engine could be resurrected. Used to be Porsche just had the tech remove the old/sick engine then install the new/replacement engine. Afterwards the old/sick engine was shipped back to Porsche in the same crate the replacement engine arrived in. But this tech told me that not too many months before this car came in Porsche had issued guidelines that a tech could use to determine if the engine was salvageable. Metal debris was checked on the clean side of the oiling system and if absent the engine was deemed rebuildable. In this 996 engine's case, the IMS and its bearing were toast and at least one cam chain guide had suffered some damage -- the composite plastic portion had fractured -- but the engine was otherwise in good shape. Sincerely, Macster.

Macster, after a discussion last night RE: this issue I was told that a dealer near me is alos doing the LNER however the word is that they do not allow "Mother" to know - determining if something is salvagable is not the same as fixing it in Mother's eye, and installing a "non-Porsche" part cannot sit well with the powers to be just opinion and hear/say - but sounds like it could be true

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The dealer tech said the exact thing. He said he'd do it if the client bought the part, paid them to install it. But given this is a warranty situation - and Fidelity warranty does NOT pay for a LNE bearing update as it's a non factory part, my only recourse is Porsche engine replacement. So I called Fidelity and I asked why they don't pay for a LNE update if that's a cheaper route. He said that a Porsche engine replacement comes with a 2 year 100K mile warranty from PCNA - and that for them on the long run, is a cheaper solution.

dont rock the boat !

Congrats! Talk about a warranty paying off! Why would you ever suggest fixing a dead or dying engine, when they are offering you a new/rebuilt motor with a Porsche warranty?

no congrats yet - warranty company hasn't yet approved the $$

Until you have the check don't consider it done... And their have been instances where 6 months later a warranty company "reviewed" the claims and then took shops and clients to court. I've seen that happen twice. Thats why I have no part of a warranty claim.. I hope it works out for you, don't get your hopes up and COVER YOUR ***!

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The conversation I had with the tech at the Porsche dealership predated the availability of the LNE IMS bearing upgrade. I'm not surprised that any dealer would refuse to do this as part of a warranty claim. In fact, I'd be more surprised that any dealer would agree to do this LNE bearing upgrade on its own. If the Porsche dealer installs a genuine Porsche part and if something goes wrong PCNA will stand behind the part and perhaps the labor too the dealer is out to replace the bad part. I am not sure what if any similar warranty is offered by LNE for its bearing upgrade. Lastly, there may some fine print in the dealer/factory business agreement that can make things very warm for a dealer that resorts to installing non-factory parts. Worst case -- if this fine print exists of course -- worst case is the dealer might risk losing its Porsche accreditation. In short the Porsche dealer could cease to exist. Based though on what you report that some dealers are doing this behind PCNA's back, I would have to assume the fine print doesn't exist or it is unenforceable. To the OP: Were I you I'd elect to get the PCNA sourced new/replacement engine installed and enjoy the peace of mind this brings: Parts and labor are warrantied for 2 years, 100K miles.... though I think labor is warrantied for 1 year, while the new/replacement engine is warrantied for the full 2 years and of course 100K miles. Break the engine in as you would a new car's engine. I'd advise an early oil/filter service: say at 750 miles; then another at least at the 2K mile mark -- aka end of break in -- then at the 5K mile mark (3K miles later) and then every 5K miles after. If possible I would not advise you let that warranty expire without putting some miles on the new engine. While you can't be expected to put 100K miles on it, and based on the factory's warranty it believes if there any problems they should appear within the new car warranty's 50K mile putting 50K miles on the engine in two years is a bit unrealistic, do try to put some miles on the engine. (Maybe unrealistic but I put around 30K miles per year on my 02 Boxster -- now with over 237K miles. Furthermore, I bought an 03 Turbo in June 09 with under 10K miles and the car now has over 50K miles which is around 26K miles per year. I might add the Turbo came with a 2 year, 100K mile CPO warranty and I wanted to put some miles on the car to give it time to manifest any problems cause the miles were so low. As it turned out the car did: idler roller bearing, radiator fan, and a leaking transmission, all of which were thankfully covered by the CPO warranty.) Sincerely, Macster.

Wishing you get the money.... But if you don't get your new engine..... You are only an IMS upgrade away..... still, not bad.... And it could certainly be worse!

Well if they would replace the engine and Porsche would take the "core deposit" and not take the engine back it might be worth it for someone to pay the core charge and take this engine. It would be a really cheap engine if it only took the bearing replacement to get it running again. Road Session, maybe you should check and see if they would do this. If they will you could post the availability of the engine and perhaps help out another owner. Just a thought.

I wonder also how much more would it cost to add a gt3 engine instead might be good time to upgrade

not a single M96 would ever get replaced if that was an option as an upgrade for some reasonable amount of money - dont cha think

What generally happens is someone at the dealership "finds" a scattered engine to send to Porsche for the core for the new engine that was covered under warranty.. This could be a hodge podge of blown up junk.. This allows the "hurt" engine to be retained... Then someone at the dealership outfits it with an LN bearing and they sell it for 5-6K.

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Let us have our dreams, my friend! I will take you up on that beer offer sometime in the near future, BTW...

You got it! I am in Bellevue and can just as easliy zip over the bridge (once all the idiots are thru with it for the day

I assume the gt3 is 10k more... not reasonable amount of money... but if you had planned for some mod spending...might be worth it...even though might want to add 20k and just buy a gt3 instead arghh, nothing come cheap at Porsche.. bummer..

really $10k... hmmmm, I was thinking double and then some. Anyone know for giggles here is an old thread I found, not sure if prices went up or down since then.... $50 PLUS INSTALL to convert it ? I would not be surprised (or have the money....) https://rennlist.com/forums/1663400-post2.html

I think ill just slap a GT3 sticker on the back of my car and call it a day ......

$50 baby !! (not $50k )

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I can even sand it down so its thinner, more areo dynamic and lighter weight!

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I will ask the dealer....

on the RS they use stickers as hood badge to save weight, my friend's 11' GT3 RS has a sticker for a front license plate - all in the name of weight (BTW have you seen the RS? - as shown with my boys)

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Well that would be assuming this is a common occurrence but frankly I'm really starting to believe this is statistically still a rare occurrence. Yes, it happened to me and others here on RL. But I really have gotten close to my dealer master tech and they're one of the oldest Porsche dealers in the country, that does VERY high volume (P cars are quite common in Boston). He said that he can count in the past 8 years he's been there, under 10 engine replacements. I really think if it gives you peace of mind, do the LNE bearing upgrade. If you don't - well - I think the odds are still in your favor of driving and enjoying your P car for a long time.

ive seen RS's... but not that one. :-) the plate stickers are sweet! oh, im threadjacking.. sorry...

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this has been gone over and over....there are those that say it never happens, those that say it is rare and those that say I see them everyday.... in under 2 years I have seen about 10 cars with owners eating a really big repair bill, and in the last year I have seen a dozen that said they were willing to do the IMS upgrade, maybe a dozen more planning it when the time/money are right. If that is a low number so be it, and I am not fear mongroling... but one guy (I will never forget) had his 02 C4 Tip for three weeks, stopped to get gas, turned the key and WHAM...That was the first rebuild I saw start to finish and I felt so bad for that guy even though he had the best additude and ended up with a LNE motor with all the goodies. ALL the goodies! I knew for me the LNE was my only hope because I didnt have the money to do a rebuild/replace and my car was over miles for the warranty companies to take on. - That said my original IMS w/130k miles is still driving up and down the highway everyday no more of my soap box

Please keep us updated, roadsession... Dying to hear how this turns out... If Fidelity ponies up like they should then I'll definitely look into using them...

Good luck with the Fidelity warranty! I recently had a claim with them that went VERY smoothly. Dealer handled the entire issue. I'll be interested to hear how your story unfolds, especially since I bought the warranty just in case the IMS fails (about the same price as an LNE bearing update).

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You must spend a fortune on hair care products!

LMAO - yea @$45/mo for haircuts, I figure 3 years w/o a haircut has saved me at least 3-4 track days THANKS IAN!! My older boy has cut his a few times... shame on him wasting good track money

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That adds 50 HP, honest! I have the dyno sheet to prove it... No affiliation, etc.. etc...

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fixed

I truly realize this will do NOTHING to calm the hysterical...But some pics of the other customers' dead engine: I didn't get a cayman loaner car because it too was sick...so I got this as a loaner:

The M3 has SMG. Took a little getting used to. Frankly I preferred my tiptronic. Handling on the same on and off ramps I took the 996 is on a different planet. I miss my 996 already Hoping it gets fixed in the next 2 weeks. (1 week to approve the claim and order the engine, 1 week to install and work out all the kinks - the tech said that he will drive it for at least 50 miles after installing a new engine to ensure all the kinks are worked out.)

How much does the aftermarket warranty cost you and how long is it good for...

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It cost me $4,000 for 4 years, 40,000 miles. But it required a PPI from an authorized Porsche Dealer.

tough to tell from pics, but your IMS shaft looks savable but the tensioner arm looks broken ... what did the techs say they found - (curious) motor would have to be torn down to get to the arm

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Just paid for itself 4X over

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Actually, they quoted him at $25k... that makes it 6+ times over! That insurance sure seems cheap now! I too am not a fan of the M3 SMG. My neighbor has one- carbon fiber roof, etc... but the thing still weighs in at something like 3700 lbs. A carbon fiber roof on this car is sort of like having a diet coke with a super-sized big mac meal. I have to say that I like the paddle shifters with the smg. I know some of you are not fans, but they are very intuitive for me.

up for that beer ?

My old M3 ('03 E46) had the SMG-II trans and I loved it... Of course, the previous owner had the transmission computer reprogrammed by Dinan, so that may have been part of it...

any update on this ? how is the warranty handling your claim ? happy with Fidelity ? I am a customer and I wanted to see if they walk the walk ...

I can assure you I tried like h&ll to get covered the week AFTER I bought my car with 101,000 miles on it and they said NO (then) I would have paid $4k for in a 1/2 a second for 4 year coverage! - might still be driving that car had I had a 4 year plan!

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Well the slow down is now not Fidelity, but the crushing volume of cars at my dealer. The Cayennes and Panamera's have absolutely choked the service dept. There is a huge number of cars with niggling problems. My dealer said that in comparison, the 911/Cayman/Boxsters have half the number of service visits than a Cayenne or Panamera. It is also he said - the nature of the customer. Most of the Cayenne or Panamera owners he sees are recent BMW or Mercedes converts and come in for a broken bulb, a drop in tire pressure, etc etc. Anyway, Fidelity has agreed to NOT have the engine torn down - but they've asked the dealer to just drop the engine and the oil pan - so that they can verify it's the IMS bearing. Once they verify it's the IMS bearing they have agreed that a new engine is due. We shall see... In the meantime I'm enjoying the M3 with SMG. It's expected to snow this week and the dealer has offered to switch me out to a 2011 Cayenne S as a loaner as the M3 is on Pilot Sports.

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Yes, Fidelity said their cut off was 50K miles for a 2002.

thats good news.... the new engine, can you have it writing.

you did mention to them that Cayenne's come in Turbo flavor... didnt you

Interesting comments on the Cayennes and Panameras. Doesn't the dealer know that a ~$20K engine replacement is pretty good business? In any case, good luck and I hope everything works out for you with the warranty!

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No - they're like a restaurant. They want fast turn over. The Engine replacement is a long, laborious job...

yea, those "fill up the tire" jobs are quick money

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Do you have the powertrain coverage only or something fancier from Fidelity? Fidelity is in Deerfield Beach, FL correct? Thanks, Jim

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No - not those , but they prefer the routine maintenance jobs that they make considerable margins on - that are also very fast turn arounds.

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Jim, I bought Fidelity Silver coverage. In hindsight I should have bought Platinum. Because the fine print in Silver is that only INTERNALLY lubricated parts are covered, so my transmission mount, my oil filler tube, my coolant tank were not covered.

So I went to visit my car - it's under surgery waiting for the new engine... The old engine: I turned this spindle and could feel grinding.

That bearing looks incredibly good to have an issue.. The outer seal isn't even compromised yet! That looks like a candidate for salvation with an IMSR procedure... Too bad it'll get sent back to Porsche as a core. You must have caught that one very early on.. it barely looks to be past a stage 1 failure!

BOY I agree... thata looks like one that could be saved for sure!!

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But the oil filter and pan were full of bearing material - little shards / specks of metal everywhere!

We have seen that before...its a little "Iffy" on the long term outlook and you are getting a complete motor so no worries... but if you had no warranty I would drop a new bearing in there and chancge oil/filter ever 100 miles for about 5 changes....

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Thanks. But the powertrain coverage alone would have covered the IMS bearing correct? The tranny mount,filler tube, and coolant tank tend to fall into the 'small potatoes" arena for these cars.

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Yes - correct. The tranny mount was $1K job The filler tube and coolant tank was around $1.5K job The cardam shaft was a $2k job.. The extra $750 for platinum coverage would have covered them

SO - drool away...I couldn't stop looking myself

and here's what she sounded like BEFORE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_x7-SShft4 and here's what she purrs like now: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqB_cQ43obs

So, I will relate to you my experience with the aftermarket warranty company. It was *NOT* great. A replacement engine cost them $25K in parts and labor. They DID NOT want to pay that. The warranty company - in fine print, - has the right to replace a part with "Like / Kind Quality" - They wanted to buy a USED engine from a dismantler. That's right. They have that right. If I don't like it, I can pay the difference between the used engine and a new engine from Porsche. Well, the used engine they had from LKQ a dismantler was $15K. The new engine from my dealer (well re-man) was a couple K more. I paid the difference - but frankly I thought it was worth it because I have a new engine, with new coils, plugs, wires, alternator, AOS, waterpump - all the crap that on an 8 year old car is bound to let go soon. So, was the aftermarket warranty worth it? Yes and No. If I didn't have one, maybe a cheaper route would be to do a LN bearing upgrade. Anyway, I have a new engine, new CATS courtesy of Porsche goodwill, and new tires - I am feeling good.

wow, so clean! dont drive it! it could get dirty! ;-) Nice!

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Doing the LN bearing upgrade would have cost you a couple K also, and now you'd be left with the same old 8 yr old engine and accessories...none of which would be covered for eventual failure if you didn't have a warranty.

What aftermarket warranty do you use? I'll have to see if my car is too old or has too many miles on it.

I doubt you are going to have any issue with Fidel. Its not like they are some "$799.00 here put this additive in" waranty... I think you are going to be fine... I have found you usually have issues with AMW when you dont follow the rules that they set in writing that you signed when you bought it. You seem to be following the rules.... You will be fine

sweet!

Quotes source post: 8211603

see post 115 https://rennlist.com/forums/8178577-post115.html

BTW serial number indicates engine was manufactured in 2005. The tech told me it has a number of upgraded components including a different type of alternator, a beefier IMS, coolant tank, etc etc. that carried over into the 997.

you know, if you put a coat of wax (car wax, any car wax) on everything you can reach, in a couple years it will look about the same. I did that to the motor on a brand new motorcycle I had when I was young and 4 years later you could see exactly which parts I missed - but overall I got "most of it" and it kept it very nice and less oxidized just a thought incase you wanna get a little **** with it

drooling!!!!!!!!!!!

[QUOTE=roadsession;8211550]So, I will relate to you my experience with the aftermarket warranty company. It was *NOT* great. A replacement engine cost them $25K in parts and labor. They DID NOT want to pay that. The warranty company - in fine print, - has the right to replace a part with "Like / Kind Quality" - They wanted to buy a USED engine from a dismantler. That's right. They have that right. If I don't like it, I can pay the difference between the used engine and a new engine from Porsche. Well, the used engine they had from LKQ a dismantler was $15K. The new engine from my dealer (well re-man) was a couple K more. I paid the difference - but frankly I thought it was worth it because I have a new engine, with new coils, plugs, wires, alternator, AOS, waterpump - all the crap that on an 8 year old car is bound to let go soon. So, was the aftermarket warranty worth it? Yes and No. If I didn't have one, maybe a cheaper route would be to do a LN bearing upgrade. QUOTE] Ah ha. Well thanks for sharing. Glad it worked out of for you. So you spent $4k on the warranty, and the deductible was? And you paid the difference between reman and used? Over $4K difference? I am sure that it was clearly indicated in the contract "like quality product" but it is clear how these companies make big $$$. I think I'm going the LN bearing, new water pump, lower temp thermostat route as opposed to the warranty when my CPO expires at the end of next month. Glad you got a new engine. Enjoy! Jim

Puuuuuuuuurrrrr! good luck with the new engine and the break in period.... I hear that is the sucky part.

Nice the shinny! Glad to see the happy ending and money well spent.

I am a bit deceived by the warranty trying to get you a used engine ! At least they offered you to pay the difference for a new engine. At least this time we know how good the Fidelity extended warranty plan is when it comes to the IMS issue. I think this $4k saving will certainly make them loose more business from the Rennlisters.

Quotes source post: 8211931

You seem to be under the mistaken idea that 1)the IMS bearing is the only way these engines can self-destruct; 2) the LN bearing (with only a couple years in the field) is not just better than the OEM, but indestructible ; 3)Nothing else will ever go wrong with your car once the CPO expires. Do yourself a favor and price out the cost of a new alternator, coil packs, A/C compressor and condenser, and anything else likely to fail at some point. Add them all up and you'll be way over the cost of the warranty. I've never had a warranty that I didn't end up getting more than my money back on those so-called "little things", even at independent-shop prices.

Quotes source post: 8212332

How much does your warranty cost on the 996 per year? What does it cover (broadly) and what is not included?

Quotes source post: 8212348

Technically mine's a 997, but an '05 so (assuming) it has the same IMS shaft and smaller single-race bearing as the latter 996. Like "soverystout" I currently have CPO which is expiring in a month or so. My plan is to get the Fidelity Platinum warranty. I have a copy of the actual contract, and it covers everything except what's on an Exclusion List, and that list is pretty short. Basically the warranty excludes wearable items like clutch, brakes, wipers, etc. but everything else is covered. This type (Exclusionary) warranty is IMHO a much better value than even the top-tier Covered Items warranties. I have that type on my Mercedes, and had it on several BMWs previously. In the worst case I got back about $500 more than I spent on the warranty, and in most cases I saved thousands. This is not to say I won't have the mechanic check my IMS bearing if and when I need a clutch, and if my OEM bearing is showing signs of failing, get the LN bearing installed. But there are other ways the M96 can grenade, and paying up the difference between a used motor and a remanufactured Porsche motor would be preferable to me than having to pay the whole amount should the motor go from one of the other failure modes.

Quotes source post: 8212332

coil packs are not "bank breakers", starters can be rebuilt, and alternators can be purchased at decent prices at autozone. All of which I can/will do myself. The low temp thermostat will help with hot spots and replacing an original (now 8 year old) water pump & coolant will help to ensure that the water pump internals won't come apart and cause a hot spot somewhere in the engine leading to a crack. Change the oil frenquently will Castrol Syntec 5w-40 and have a blackstone test done of the used oil. With all this, including the IMS bearing, I feel confident enough to "let it ride". You should at least buy a membership if we have to continue reading your "return serve" that is constantly saying the same thing over and over. Have a great weekend.

Ouch, I just searched around online and it looks like that Fidelity warranty costs around $1K plus per year. That's a lot of coin to protect an engine that some estimate/guess has a 5% failure rate. I've got the LN Bearing and thermostat on one car already. I think I'll stick with self insurance.

Quotes source post: 8212559

It's good that you have the skills and tools necessary to do this work, and that your time is worth less than a mechanic's hourly wage. With me, I have the skills but the other two conditions don't apply. I have to continue reading posts like yours, saying the same thing over and over (willing to bet a $25K engine job on a $600 part that hasn't been on the market long enough to know if it's really a panacea or not; happy to risk spending that and more in order to save a few thousand on a warranty) so I say that makes us even

Quotes source post: 8211504

Oh my! Engine ****. Congrats on the new engine. As a little bonus to yourself, maybe you should schedule a DE or track day about when your break-in period is up...

Sucks that you now have a non-numbers matching car................................................. .. Bwahahahhaa only kidding! .

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I just bought a 996 2002 with 20,500 miles and wonder whether I should put in the LN bearing even if there isn't any sign of a problem. I worry that the car wasn't driven enough and at high enough RPM's to lubricate the bearing. What has most everyone else done?

Quotes source post: 8215887

Some replace and some don't. Everyone likes the idea of a new bearing. All total I like the idea of a new engine even more Peace of mind is the selling point.

Quotes source post: 8215887

You bring up a good question. One year ago, I was asking myself the same thing. In the end, I decided to forego the IMS bearing replacement and purchase the Fidelity Platinum extended warranty. My reasoning was this - spend ~$3K on a 3yr warranty which would cover the IMS failure along with just about everything else, or, ~$3K on the LNE IMS bearing replacement (hope I'm not off base mentioning "brands" here). I went with the warranty as there are more things that can go wrong with the car than just the IMS and in 3 years, IF I still have this car, I'll go with kit. BTW, my warranty just about paid for itself with some issues discovered at my recent 30K service interval

UPDATE: I just picked up my car. It is a very different car with the new engine. Everything feels tighter, and power delivery is extremely linear, no flat spots. IT IS AMAZING. However I paid about $2K out of pocket - which isn't bad, but I would have thought I would have only been $250 out of pocket (my deductible). Fidelity Warranty SUCKS - they were really not very cooperative with me or the dealer at all. Very difficult to get a hold of someone that really knows what's going on, and very very difficult with the dealer Service Advisor. At the end of the day, I am happy with my new engine, and that $2K isn't a terrible deal, and such, but the experience with Fidelity left much to be desired. If I and my SA didn't keep on them 5X a day, I'm convinced they'd never have paid and let this wallow for months.

Good job... enjoy the new motor! the break in period is a b*tch though.

Quotes source post: 8212332

I think you might be unlucky. Counterpoint: I have a Fidelity Warranty on my 996 40th. Yes, the internet suckered me. 9 months, 10k miles later, I haven't not used it once, knock on wood. I would bet that I am closer to the norm or insurance companies would lose money. And they have lots of mathematicians to make sure they don't. Some people like insurance. It gives them peace of mind. From a mathematical sense, they are a poor investment if you are able to self insure.

So let me relate to you my experience. I paid $4K for my warranty. I paid $4K in repairs my stupid warranty DIDN'T cover. I paid $2K in the difference between what the warranty paid for, and what the dealer charged. So I'm out $10K in the last 2 yrs. I could have changed the IMS bearing as a preventative for $2K I could have changed the AOS and Alternator and Water pump as preventative for another $2K. Total $4K. This is MY EXAMPLE and YMMV. But right now I have a new engine that comes complete with a new AOS, new waterpump, new EVERYTHING so I'm not going to dwell on it any longer and enjoy my new Porsche.

BTW: I realize this may ignite an all out popcorn fest like the question of "Mobil 1" - but given this is a factory reman - what is the break-in procedure (if any)

Quotes source post: 8253009

I'm thinking a reman is as new as a new motor..... https://rennlist.com/996_faq/i.htm "9. Break In Period Not really troubleshooting at all but it had to go somewhere. The manual says to keep revs under 4000 for the first 1000 miles. My dealer told me to ignore that and to keep revs under 5000rpm for the first 500 miles and then rev away to my heart's content. Opinion seems to favor sticking to the 4500-5000 'limit' for the first 500 miles or so, edging up to 5,500 until around 900-1000 miles and then going for it. It's important during the break in period to vary speed and revs to allow a "rounded" break in. Some have also suggested a rather early oil change at around 3,000 miles to get rid of any break in contaminates. See the earlier section on religious convictions and fluids. (Hmm, sounds like a line from Dr. Strangelove...)"