LWFW Installed...Impressions

I absolutely love it. I have the Aasco LWFW and the Spec stage 2+ clutch/pressure plate. I just had them installed today by a local mechanic/friend. With the spring centered clutch, the extra noise is only present at idle, with the car in neutral and the clutch out. My mechanic was on a test drive in my car, when I went to pick it up. It sounded like a high performance motorcycle taking off. It is very easy to drive...no problems stalling. Idle is perfect. The responsiveness is fantastic...just like a sport bike. My mechanic is the president of the local Shelby club. His observation was, "it runs out of road really quick". If you are considering this mod, I highly recommend it. I reasearched every post ever written and pondered my decision for over a year...just do it.

Does anyone know what this does to 0-60 times? Pete

My butt dyno says it's faster. But, my butt dyno also knows that my wallet is $2,000 lighter.

I've heard the benefit is much less noticable in higher gears (3rd, 4th, etc). You find that to be true?

How annoying is the 'extra' noise at idle, clutch out Mark?

Quickx, it is much more noticeable in first and second gear....ear-to-ear grin type of fun. I haven't explored the upper reaches of the higher gears yet. Steve, I can't hear it in traffic. You can barely hear it inside the car, with the windows open, stereo off, and no other cars around. If I had been able to hear it on another person's car, I would have done it a long time ago. The positive aspects far outweigh the negative. If it is good enough for a GT3 RS...

Mark, Good to hear about the LWFW. I'm considering it when my car exits warranty next year. Is your Shelby friend Joe Praxel? I don't know him, but I've heard of him, as a good friend of mine is the SAAC national rep for NorCal Shelby club. He lives in Oakdale and has a 1965 GT350 competition model and and a 1965 289 Cobra competition model. Awesome (and very valuable) cars. Franklin

Mark, that noise is there whether it's sprung-hub or not. The sprung-hub is there for the sudden torque shock on the clutch, not for noise. I had the same noise on my E46 M3 with the LWFW and S2000 with the Comptech LWFW

That is excellent to know. I am probably going to go this route when my clutch goes. where did you buy it? Thanks for sharing.

Sounds exciting! Keep us posted on long term use. So what do you think is the best benefit to go that route? Knowing how much you yourself do on cars, why did you let someone else do it? We need prices on all parts including install costs.....please.

Franklin, you won't regret it. My Shelby friend is Gary Cook (GT Auto). Those both sound like cool cars. Arnee, Randy Aasco told me to be sure and get the spring hub style clutch..I probably confused that with the numerous posts that I read here and on 6-speed regarding the noise. Thanks for the info. Chao, I bought the clutch/pressure plate from Ultra-rev ($650) and the LWFW used off 6-speed ($600). Ed, I paid $500 for the installation. I'm just back to work after spine surgery #6. I wasn't up for an all day adventure under the car (on jack stands). Plus, I would have needed to rent or buy a transmission jack. I was pretty happy when he told me that it took about 3 extra hours to line up the transmission..,.money well spent. The instant acceleration in the first two gears is my favorite part about the LWFW...double-clutching is more fun also. Add to the above, about $35 in parts from Sunset (fork, etc). Thanks for the interest.

L?W?F?W?

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light weight fly wheel

I've always been a huge fan of lighter flywheels in any sports car, just so much more fun.

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So even with the spring centered clutch it still rattles as it does without.

awesome... def on my mod list for quite some time now.

Yeah the noise isn't that bad unless you're conscious of what people think about you and the car. For some people (that I know), they wouldn't get caught with a "rattly" car at idle because they use the car for mainly showing off and are not into "the experience."

How is it in stop and go traffic, or have you not hit any yet?

I have the Aasco LWFW in my 986 and I agree it's a very cool mod. However, in my Boxster it is virtually silent. I'll probably throw one in the 996 when I change the clutch.

Go Army, Geoff

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Amen...... Could not have said it better......

I am doing a Spec Stage II and a LWFW right now. Any reason you went with the Aasco over the Spec unit?

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Do you have a link on the spec stage II and the LWFW?

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Just go here to see the specs on the products. http://www.specclutch.com/products

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The spec flywheel is less expensive.

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I thought they were both $899

This one here says 607

This forum is like crack. Once you are in, you are so hooked....

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Except the forum is better.... cause after you read the forums, you don't have white stuff on your nose.

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Or wake up wearing your shirt as pants and some Circle K clerk is yelling because you owe him $50 eating all the Twinkies while hiding in the beer cooler.

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Word. Cool mod, wish the flywheel was more accessible / cheaper....

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Aren't all cracks like that....... oh wait, you meant crack cocaine and not.... uhmmm.... never mind!

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That "crack" too

Good one Tim...that one is far more addictive and expensive. Here is the link to the clutch...I don't think you will find it cheaper. http://www.ultrarev.com/product.php?productid=27606 I bought the flywheel used for about 1/2 price. It got damaged during shipping. I shipped it to Aasco and Randy Aasco fixed it and made it as new for about $15. I can't say enough good things about him and his company. The flywheel is a work of art. I am not aware of another brand that fits a 99 996...regardless, I would pay more to buy again from Aasco. Ferdinand, you would love this mod. I can't imagine it with the SC. Someday, I hope to find out. In the mean time, I'm pretty happy.

Dave, stop and go is almost the same...except the car in front of you gets closer way faster. TMAC, I'm sure you wll like it. I went with the SPEC stage 2+ and I am happy that I did. It is very progressive and I won't have to worry, if I do a SC later. If you call Aasco and talk to Randy, he will sell you on his product.

I hear a LWFW is harder on the crankshaft than the regular flywheel... is this true? 996 cranks are not the greatest given their fairly weak bearing design.... sounds like a great mod though...

Pete, I have read conflicting information on that aspect. Randy Aasco told me not to worry about it. They supply their flywheels to several race teams, with no problems. He is an engineer and I am not. I did specifically ask him about that, due to a post here by another vendor on that topic.

I was mistaken regarding the location of the crankshaft failure/LWFW post. It was on Renntech... http://www.renntech.org/forums/index...pic=23219&st=0 I don't intend to offend anybody regrding this post. I am not an expert...just offering my opinion. I am really not qualified to answer your (c70Pete) question on the crankshaft issue. I did try to make an informed decision, for my own peace of mind.

I am gathering data to support the harmonic hypothesis now for an article I am working on. I recently found sensors that can be integrated into my data logger to help us gather this data and plot it Vs the stock flywheel.I have a brand new Aasco LWFW on the way that will be used for evaluation purposes. One Rennlist member has broken two crankshafts in less than two months and there was one mechanical constant between those two failures.. The same constant we have seen 5 times since October 2008.

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Was the exact same aasco LWFW used in both failures or were they two different FW's?

I have read several times that the heavier stock FW was designed exactly to suppress vibrations, some of which exacerbate the RMS leak. Looking forward to hear from Jake R.

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Wow, interesting. How long was the LWFW installed before the failure? FYI, I have at least 30K on my LWFW.

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The same LWFW was used both times, but it was not an Aasco...

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Do you think the problem could be brand related (or product related if you got a poorly balance FW) or could any LWFW have this potential problem?

No, it is not brand related.. The units all seem to have the same characteristics. My article will go over how well the units are dynamically balanced out of the box when new and how they react when pressure plates are bolted to them.

I fell obligated to share the good with the bad. Today was not a good Porsche day. My wife and I were driving to a local shop to get the A/C recharged on the Porsche. I knew my tires are in poor shape, but I wanted to get the A/C charged, because I had to pick up my dad's van from the same shop. I had a flat about half way there on the freeway. The 295 tires prevented any damage to my wheel. When I picked up my car on Wednesday, I test drove it hard. My mechanic did the same, with no problems. On my way home, I heard a loud metallic "bang" from the back of the car. No other problems..ran fine, sounded fine, and no oil leak. Today, when I backed the car up about 30 feet to get off the freeway, I stalled it for the first time. When i restarted the car, it made an incredibly loud noise when I depressed the clutch. It sounded like a bad throw-out bearing (which I had replaced with the new Spec unit). The idle also started fluctuating. I drove the car an additional 100 yards off the off-ramp and into a parking lot. The noise continued. It could be heard from probably 100 feet away. I had the car towed back to my buddy's shop. Guess what....no more noise. I left it in my buddy's care for the weekend, with both of us scratching our heads. Any ideas?

How long since you replaced the clutch?? This sounds like it could be the IMS death rumble, but it usually can't be heard that far away.. We might need to talk soon.

Jake, the clutch/LWFW went in two days ago. I have less than 20 miles on it. The noise was only apparent when I depressed the clutch. The car has less than 40,000 miles on it. Someday, I would love to upgrade my engine to your 3.7 motor...just not right now. I sincerely hope this is a problem with my newly installed clutch/flywheel. I just bought new tires from Damon at the Tire Rack. Now, if I can just resolve that pesky little noise.

Sorry to hear Mark, hope its not serious... keep us posted.

Two motors in less than 2 months. Assco LWF and Spec clutch. First motor looks like the thrust bearing is gone. Second motor broken crank shaft. Sent the flywheel back to Assco to be repaired and rebalanced had to replace the clutch, repair the bellhousing where the flywheel hit it multilple times and obviously replace the motor. From what I hear the 3rd time is a charm!!!!

Ferdinand, thanks. I will be surprised if we can figure it, out without pulling the transmission again. I'm glad I didn't do it myself and have this issue happen. Tim, I'm sorry to hear that. I know that raceing is expensive, but that is ridiculous. Good luck. I sure hope that the flywheel and clutch didn't contribute (for selfish reasons).

Tim, Thanks for chiming in.. Your situation is ridiculous!!! Lets talk Monday, I have been trying to work with Sloan and would like to go over a couple things with you.

That's tough news Mark. Hope its nothing serious.

Chao, thanks. Today I discovered what one of the noises was. My mechanic told me that I have a large indentation on the inside of my right rear wheel. The loud "bang" that I heard must have been me hitting a rock, board, etc., while I was driving home. He said it looks repairable. At least we know what that noise was.

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What this means is that all the stalling and such was because of the internet! Glad it wasn't anything tragic. Better go for a good drive on the weekend and enjoy that new FW! Good news!

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Glad to read your problem was so minor - I was holding my breath for you. Jake - thanks for the email reply. I will call you to discuss options for my still healthy MY01 C4 with 33k.

Cool... I am assembling an engine today, so the phone will be off and the door locked!! Shoot me an email and we can come up with a good time to chat. mfletch, Glad to hear that issue was just a rock!!

My wheel is repaired and I brought my car home yesterday. My buddy had it at his shop for a week. On one of the warmer days, he heard the same noise that I complained about. When the clutch pedal is mashed to the floor, the pressure plate goes too far and contacts the spring centered hub of the clutch. If I back off on the pressure, it goes away. It can be felt through the clutch pedal. I removed the helper spring over a year ago, because I like the unassisted feel. I don't know if it limits the clutch pedal travel (I don't think it does). I have never heard of anybody else having this problem. I'm pretty sure that the spring centered hub contributes to the problem, because it protrudes further. An easy solution to the problem will be to physically limit the clutch pedal from being depressed so far, by putting either additional foam padding behind the carpet or by putting something on the back of the clutch pedal assembly. I should only need to limit the travel by 1/2 inch to cure the problem. The clutch engages near the upper half of the pedal travel. I'm fortunate this was such a minor problem. I drove the car home on back roads and got to romp on it a little bit, without worrying about my tires (thanks to Damon at the Tire Rack). The LWFW really seems to bring together all my other engine mods. I find myself having to really anticipate shifts in order to avoid bouncing off the rev limiter. I am really enjoying this modification. Thanks again guys for the positive thoughts.

Is this common with this type clutch common? You can also try shortening the hydraulic clutch cylinder "rod" 1/2" so the clutch arm will not travel that far.

Mfletch, Does your car have A/C still? Have you driven with the A/C on with the new LWFW? I ask because I did that same mod to a '93 RS America (right after the new car warranty expired) and the engine would stall when I pushed in the clutch to coast to a stop if I had the A/C on. I had Weltmeister recurve a chip to bring on the onset of idle at a higher RPM to prevent the stall. Just wondering if you have notice any stalling with the A/C on. My experience was 15 years ago on a two generations older car, but I was just curious if you have had that problem.

Hi Steve. The rod is definately an option, thanks...I'm going to try the easy way first. Mark, I am hoping to get my A/C system charged tomorrow. I have not had it on, since the LWFW was installed. I have read that the noise gets worse with the A/C on, so I am anxious to find out.

[QUOTE=Mfletch] "When the clutch pedal is mashed to the floor, the pressure plate goes too far and contacts the spring centered hub of the clutch. If I back off on the pressure, it goes away. It can be felt through the clutch pedal." Mfletch, It sounds like the spring hub disc has been mounted in the wrong direction. The correct placement of the spring unit is toward the flywheel, the manufacturer should have indicated the direction on the part. You should have absolutely no issues with pedal travel (going over center) or modifications to your system what so ever. regards drdooba1

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I don't know if you only want to hear from Mfletch but I have no issues with my LWFW when the AC is on or off except for the chattering sound which does get louder when the AC is on.

can someone technically explain why there is a chatter on LWFWs?

see here

drbooba1, your explanation of the problem sounds like a possibility. I tried a spacer behind the clutch pedal, to limit travel. I have to mash the pedal to the floor, to activate the microswitch on the clutch pedal, in order to start the car. It makes that horrible contact noise when I start the car, with the pedal fully depressed (after it is warm). Has anybody else ever heard of this problem? Did my mechanic install the clutch backwards?

The LWFW on my 986 does not do that

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Mfletch, I have heard of the rattling associated with the lightweights but you really should not have to be using bandades here. It may give you piece of mind to take it back and see what he says and if he has done the job a few times I would imagine he can remove tranny pretty fast.

Ray and Steve, thanks for the response. This is not a noise associated with the LWFW. You can hear and feel the splines on the pressure plate contacting the spring centered hub, when the pedal is depressed all the way (hard) to the floor. Steve, you are right about the bandaid fix...it is not the way to go. My mechanic does primarily Shelby products. This is the first 996 clutch that he has done. If it is possible to reverse the clutch, that explains what is happening.

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Tim is back on the track this week end with a new rebuilt motor at the Glen with PCA, he will be testing some new changes we made to the stock internals. Along the way we have net worked with Jake Raby regarding the problems with both of Tim's engine. When we started Tim's engine rebuild first we sent the fly wheel to Assco for repair they did a great job and got it back to us in three days, the next thing we checked was the balance of the rotating assembly it was 16 grams out of balance that is just mind blowing. We think that the dull mass flywheel is used as a harmonic balancer to offset the pore balancing I would say if you are using a single mass flywheel you should have the motor rebalanced before using, that is just are opinion based on our finding so fare. Jake Raby has also found the same problem with these motors that we have. We re balanced the rotating assembly with in 2 tenths of a gram, made some changes to the stock pistons to make the rings seal better. A friend of mine at the local Porsche dealer called me and told us about a new Porsche tech bulletin, it states if you use a single mass flywheel it will fractures the crank shaft.

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Could you post the TSB or at least the number. I have not seen this yet.

[QUOTE=SSI Performance;6610939]Tim is back on the track this week end with a new rebuilt motor at the Glen with PCA, he will be testing some new changes we made to the stock internals. Along the way we have net worked with Jake Raby regarding the problems with both of Tim's engine. When we started Tim's engine rebuild first we sent the fly wheel to Assco for repair they did a great job and got it back to us in three days, the next thing we checked was the balance of the rotating assembly it was 16 grams out of balance that is just mind blowing. We think that the dull mass flywheel is used as a harmonic balancer to offset the pore balancing I would say if you are using a single mass flywheel you should have the motor rebalanced before using, that is just are opinion based on our finding so fare. Jake Raby has also found the same problem with these motors that we have. We re balanced the rotating assembly with in 2 tenths of a gram, made some changes to the stock pistons to make the rings seal better. A friend of mine at the local Porsche dealer called me and told us about a new Porsche tech bulletin, it states if you use a single mass flywheel it will fractures the crank shaft.[/ QUOTE] Well that sucks to know.

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I will get the TSB from him this week and post

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Thanks, I have checked all available TSBs on Renntech and saw no new flywheel related TSB...It would be nice to know this to be true rather than start an ugly rumor. After all there are lots of Porsches running LWFW with NO issues.

The 3.6 crank now has 7 revisions that have been made to it by Porsche... That alone says there is a problem. We have known that the use of the single mass flywheel can lead to fractured cranks for over a year now, but of course what do a few engine developers from America know?? People won't listen and will argue until Porsche releases a bulletin MONTHS after the issues have occurred.. One day people will listen and they will do so without denial or argument, but wait that would be in a "Perfect World"... Sloan noted the same imbalance that we have when balancing assemblies and flywheels here under our roof, these are the instances that I have based my tech article on that I have ben waiting to release. Now that Porsche has released their bulletin it looks like I can finish the article and post it without receiving emails from those who doubt it's validity.. I enjoyed working with SSI on Tim's engine and getting him back on the track. Its nice to work with people who have the same experiences that we have.. Sloan, I need some pics of Tim's broken crank to add to my article as well as a copy of the"initial spin" balance screen from your balancer's computer.. I will have more data and broken parts than anyone can argue with once this article is completed... Send me that TSB if you can and I'll post it in the article as well, I only have it in the form of a copy/paste email. Thanks to the Fatherland for finally waking up on this topic, it's only been a few years now that these cranks have been breaking.. The answer is a real crank-

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On a stock clutch I do not think it matters which way the friction disc goes on but, on yours it may? With the jbracing clutch I was reading the the clutch pedal did need to be limited on the travel. It's the big red lettering at bottom of second page. http://www.jbracing.com/tech%20guide...RSCHE%206B.pdf PS I have to replace my master clutch cylinder and was wondering if you or anyone else knows if the "push rod" on cylinder is adjustable?

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The clutch master cylinder is not adjustable. Be very careful with the push lock line fittings they brake very easy so take your time and do not force it apart. On the 996 track car we install an adjustable pedal stop to keep the driver from over extending the clutch and also you could load the end of the crankshaft, this would put a lot of pressure on the thrust bearing and may case damage to the engine. 1. Remove the left cowl cover. 2. You will see a black line going throw the fire wall, this is the supply line coming from the brake master. take a small screw drive and gently pop the safety cover off the fitting, you will see a red ring on the compression fitting push it in toward the fitting then slide line off. Be patient with it could take a couple time to get it. 3. Just under the black supply line is a blue line this line goes to the slave cylinder. You will see the tail of the clutch master cylinder sticking out of the fire wall remove the blue metal clip then pull the line out. 4. the fun part if your a big guy like me its no fun, flip your self up side down head first under the dash feet up on the seat and remove the two 10mm bolts and clip from clutch pedal.

For those of you doing track events with you 996 do not fill the engine oil to the max line only fill it to the minim line. We are seeing allot of these car going into a long sweeping left turn and the oil stacks then get pulled into the intake system through the oil separator. This will hydrolock your engine and brake the connecting rods then its time for new engine.

Mother, you are a life saver. I was seriously stressed out about having the clutch installed backwards. That link explains the problem. Thank you. I'm sorry, I have never removed the clutch master cylinder rod. SSI, thanks for the information. Do you sell a clutch pedal stop or have advice on how to make one? Jake or SSI, are you guys working on a different crankshaft dampener to offset the single mass flywheel? Thanks If anybody has advice on making or buying a quality adjustable clutch pedal stop, I would appreciate it.

Mfletch anytime maybe jbracing has a idea for adjustment hardware etc. SSI (Thanks) great feedback for my Master Cylinder change.

Yes, we have been working for 8 months on a harmonic damper for the single mass arrangements, BUT it'll never absorb the harmonics as well as the dual mass flywheel.. It will help, but nothing will be as good as a dynamically balanced engine outfitted with a LWFW, but you can't buy that from Porsche, and never will...

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Hey Mark, Yes we make them I will post some pic of it. I would have to agree with Jake there is no dampener that is going to take care of a rotating assembly that is16 grams out of balance. Porsche has added a front harmonic balance pulley on the 997 engines I have not done any testing yet with using it on a 996, I think Jake has done testing on the 997 damper. even if you use the 997 front damper pulley it would not offset the pore balance of these engines. I would say if you are looking to get long life out of your motor change the flywheel or balance the engine. Sloan

Sloan, thanks for the information. If you have a quality clutch pedal stop that will work, I will buy it.

I'm interested about the clutch stop also.

The 997 damper will work, with a couple of mods.. They are more expensive and less effective than the damper we have been working on for several months. They can also only be bought in the standard diameter, where the units we like to use are under driven and only 4" diameter to keep the power steering pump alive on the track and free up a tad bit of power. Imbalance can only be corrected with a dynamic balancing procedure applied to the entire rotating/reciprocating mass. This can only be done with the entire engine disassembled.

I made a temporary clutch stop out of the rubber end on a crutch. It works. When SSI gets one fabricated, I will buy it. It is a necessity with my combination. I went to a couple car shows this weekend and got to put a few miles on the Porsche. My A/C system is now working. The car runs fantastic. I love the instant accleration and the additional responsiveness. Double clutching is fun. I almost never notice additional noise due to the LWFW. I still highly recommend this mod.

Glad it's working well car looks great and nice that you have some car shows to go to. It's boring here in Phoenix although I did have a all women vintage vette club pass me by the other day but there ages matched there cars.

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Hmmmmmm - the very best kind....

Mother their cars are, at most, in their late 40's....there are definately some hot soccer moms that age...they need love too.

this thread went from interesting to INTERESTING !

Boy non of them looked like that! MFletch I think you have some fuzzy math going on here? A 1957 corvette is 52 years old and assuming the women bought it at 20 puts her at 72. I agree we all need love, but you go first!

Ed, WOW! Mother, YUK!!! reminds me of the one of the last scenes of "The Hangover". If you haven't seen it, you will laugh your butt off.