X74 on C2 in Bay Area for quick test ride?

Hi everyone, I got a gorgeous 2002 C2 with M030 and 18" wheels from a seller in Minnesota with less than 30k miles on it. It turns out he has the X74 set which he installed on the car in 2006 but removed and replaced with the original M030 to sell. I am intrigued as he is interested in selling the X74 kit (the four springs/struts, uses M030 sway bars). This car is my daily driver and the M030 is acceptable stiffness for the third world roads in the Bay Area (Silicon Valley). I have researched the X74 to no end but "how stiff is it" is like going to a Thai restaurant and asking "how hot is it". You have no idea what their frame of reference is. Some say it's no stiffer and actually feels more compliant and only harsh at the travel extremes; some say "whoa, a lot stiffer, my family doesn't ride with me anymore". I will do 95% commuting and around town driving, a few longer trips, and on average 1-2 DE events/year. It has to be acceptable for that purpose. With the M030, I notice more dive on hard braking and more lift on hard acceleration than I expected. And the 40mm/30mm lowering from the X74 would sure look good. So I'm wondering if anyone in the Bay Area might have a stock 996 C2 with X74 installed that I could get a short ride in just to calibrate the frame of reference. A nice bottle of wine or lunch or equivalent seems like a reasonable trade but let me know if otherwise :-). -Mike

X74 can be quite unpleasant on bad roads. In general, if you are not in "track mode", you will drive slower then with M030. It's a good idea to try out.

I'm in Indy and if you travel I would pick you at the airport and show you what the car is capable of. If you did one word would come out of your mouth....SCHWINGGG! It really is not harsh. The car feels so solid. You can't buy the X74 anymore. Used are very hard to find. Worst case you buy it, don't like and resell it. There are many looking for this. I would not think twice!

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Hi Pete, Thanks for the advice. This is kind of the direction I'm thinking of as well. Try it, sell it if I don't like it. I don't travel much but thanks for the offer! Now among the first 2 replies here there are kind of the two opposite opinions. This is tough! Therefore the request to try it out.

Your butt is the only thing that will tell you if it's harsh or not. I have some fake GT3 seats. They don't have alot of cushion. With the stock seats the bumps in the road are nothing. It will lower the car by an inch from stock so just pay attention where your driving. And we'll you know...butts are like opinions...everyone has one. Good luck with the purchase.

After all the viewpoints I think the best choice was in fact to just buy the X74 and try it out. Seller will pack the set up this weekend so it will probably take a couple of weeks until I get the time to install and do an alignment.

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That is a win win. Let me know if you need the X74 alignment specs.

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I pray I am never this old I have just about as stiff a set up as you can get and drive some of the worst roads in the nation daily - with hard seats I just bought the stiffest set up available and am planning my install

X74 is not too stiff for daily use. I installed and find it actually more forgiving than M030. Sure at the end of travel or on really bad roads it may be harsher but then why would you be hauling *** on realy bad roads? Does drop car over an inceh so you have to watch where you go but for general use it is best upgrade you can make to 996. I know of several people on here desperately seeking one.

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Thanks, Pete, yes I think I'd like to start preparing for doing the alignment. It looks pretty straightforward compared to the '87 I did a couple of times (even corner balanced it), but always requires knowing the details. With the X74 installed is there an issue getting to the adjustment points anywhere? Camber looks really easy, toe would be the question I suppose. My target is at the aggressive end of a street driving alignment but not so that there is excessive tire wear during the 95% of time I'm commuting. I know, shoot for the moon.

I have no idea how to do a alignment.....but I used the spec per the attached. It is a pretty good read. http://www.renntech.org/forums/topic...ignment-specs/ I did not notice any crazy tire wear. You could drive the car through the eye of a needle..atleast that how I felt when I first drove it.

Whole heartedly concur! The difference in controlability and stability is insane! You will not be disappointed. Pete

+996. x74 should have come in stock. The US stock suspension is junk.

I posted some specs on my x74 alignment on here a few weeks back when I get home i will try and find and repost here.

I got the X74 and installed it over the weekend. Not yet aligned (but it's not hugely far off). I took just a little bit of a drive to visit some friends including some freeway ramps and a short twisty, and oh my god what a difference. It is not like I expected. First impressions are that the difference is subtle, but the stability of the platform is hugely improved. I've had the 996 for only 3 months and no track time yet so my range of experience is limited. But until the X74 went in, I felt the engine's power was frequently overtaxing the capabilities of the M030 suspension. Now it is the reverse. It is quite clear that the car could take quite a bit more power before the X74's limits were tested. As somebody else has said, the car feels smaller and lighter. As others have mentioned, the "compliance" seems better, although the springs are clearly stiffer. I would have to assume that the balance between spring and shock damping rates are being traded off differently -- in the X74 the springs do more work relative to the shocks than in the M030. Small bumps are transmitted more sharply by the M030 and a little "rounder" by the X74, but the overall motion transmitted by the X74 is more. This does cause some comfort issues in two cases that I've found so far: 1) lower speeds (under 30-35 mph) on bumpy roads where I guess the rate of acceleration of vertical wheel travel is lower and is handled more by the springs than the shocks in which case the X74 is harsher, and 2) freeway paving that has a clear periodic component where the car gets into an oscillatory groove that is more noticeable with the X74. But overall the ride is not objectionable except under these limited cases, and my wife says "Well, I liked the other one better, but now it feels like your old one [my 1987 Carrera with stock suspension but Bilstein HD shocks/struts]". The installation took all day but I had a couple of other things to work on (fix a stuck emergency brake adjuster) and had to pick my wife up from the airport and so on. The first wheel of each pair took a lot longer than the second. The fronts were actually easier than the rears, but only after being a little confounded by how far the wheel carrier had to drop to rotate the strut out from under the fender. For some reason there are about 4 different techniques described by people doing this mod. Some involve opening ball joints and other stuff I didn't want to get into. My solution was to remove the brake caliper and get it and the wires and brake lines attached to it hung out of the way of the strut. Assuming you've already disconnected the sway bar, it is then super easy to stand up next to the fender, step on the wheel hub or control arm or whatever to push it down, and the strut just drops right down. Nothing to it. The second front wheel took maybe 30 minutes. So for anyone doing this mod -- I highly recommend you order a new set of 4 caliper bolts and just remove and replace the caliper. (Note the new bolts have a Torx T55 head, and the old ones are 10mm hex, so you need both sockets to remove and replace. Also note that a T50 also works, but is rather loose). And definitely measure your floor jack's minimum height so that you can be sure that once you have the shorter springs installed, that you can actually lower the car down to the ground! I measured mine ahead of time and have a 1/2" clearance. The ground clearance of the car is now about 4.5" whereas previously it was 6". I have to angle out of my driveway by 45 degrees or I get a little scraping noise somewhere. Other than that, 4.5" clearance is not all that extreme. It's still a totally practical car. And the wheel wells look correctly proportioned now too. Much better.

So Mike.....does that mean you likey?

Knew you would like it

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Definitely! I can see that this suspension is not for the person who wants a highway cruiser. If I just drove freeways at speed limit in a straight line all day I would prefer the M030, and probably would prefer the stock suspension even more. I would never experience the advantages of this suspension and get the (few) downsides. But throw in a few twisties, freeway ramps, or anything aside from straight lines and it's worth it many times over. (Also it looks great.)

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I thought the x74 is not available anymore? Where did you source yours? Just like to think mine has appreciated a bit now that it's NLA Also, you noticed that the car responds to brake and gas a lot better?

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Funny story. I bought this 996 in November and it came with an M030 suspension. But, unknown to me, the previous owner had this X74 on it for the previous 5 years and restored it to "original" condition before selling it. It took me a couple of months to realize he had the X74 on it and asked him about it. It was stored in his garage and he just hadn't gotten around to advertising it. I figured it was low risk to buy & try.

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Funny story indeed. You must feel kinda lucky now

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Yes! This is a part of my observation that the car's balance has now shifted from being overpowered to "under" powered (haha). I can punch it hard in 2nd gear and not have the back end instantly slide out which happened a lot with the M030. There's just a little chirp and the tires just gather underneath and put on the traction. Haven't had the chance to try braking hard yet.

Great to hear you like it. Add some sticky tires at a DE and you can keep up with the best of them. This was the best add on I did. Its always good to have more cowbell.