Looking into a 996, here for advice and info

Hey everyone, I'm currently researching 996's because I plan to get one within the next couple months. I'm here to gather information and advice from experienced members so I can make the best decision possible in purchasing my 996. So, I'm just going to type out what's on my mind in an unorganized manner. This car will be daily driven. I'm unsure if I want a mkI or mkII, because I haven't seen the real differences between the two other than exterior changes. But I definitely want one with lower mileage. I have the ability to purchase cars at auctions from a family member, so I have that option if need be. I've been researching issues that 996's are known to have, so I know what to look for and avoid. So far, I've only seen the not-so-common RMS issue and IMS issues as well. And I've noted that the RMS can be checked by tearing down quite a few large items and many hours of work, and the IMS isn't as bad of a thing to check/change the bearing but is still time consuming. So far, that's about it. Any and all information will be greatly appreciated, and I hope to become a true rennlist member/porsche owner in the near future!

These cars can be bulletproof or plagued with issues that will cost substantially more than you paid for the car. For that reason it is imperative that you get a very thorough PPI that may cost $200-$300. This is not possible if you buy at auction. Take your time to find the right one. I had a Mk1 for 7 years and I'd buy another in a heartbeat. I have a '99 Boxster that has been issue free since I bought it in '02 with just 8k miles on it. Good luck wiht the search.

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Hey Nick, thanks for the info. How would I typically go about getting a PPI done? If the car has low mileage and is what I'm looking for, then a $200-300 PPI is well worth the investment IMO. Would I need a Porsche mechanic to come check it out or ask the dealership if the car could be brought to a Porsche dealership (if it's not a Porsche dealership) to get the PPI done?

First of all avoid the auctions because if a 996 has to go through an auction to be sold, then theres probably a dam good reason why. It would have sold privately if there was nothing wrong with it. Good ones are in too much of a demand to be going through auctions. Another thing would be to get hold of the Manual for that particular model and read up on how things are supposed to work. There are so many little things that could be missed in a PPI. Read the posting "The new official things you didn't know about your 996 thread" at the top of this forum. Oh and get an independent guy doing the PPI and ask him to check all the things you need checking. Most tell you about tires and how much wear is left on brakes so what good is that info. These are things that can be changed along with a clutch and other wearable things. Little things like locking petrol doors and micro switches that should operate this and that in a sequence but don't. Alarm system, window drop, those are the things that will cost you time and money later down the road when you find they don't work. Good luck with your search.

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+1. Buy from private party or reputable dealer. Drive the car, get its history/docs, and get a PPI. Best to test drive multiple cars to get a feel for how they differ by MY, model, options to find what feels best to you. Good luck.

How much money do you have?

Thanks for the info everyone. I'll be looking around 26-28 to spend on it. I'll explain my situation and you all can chime in as you please. I have an 07 Honda Civic Si (original owner) that is turbocharged and right now putting down ~500whp. I have all new upgrades that I'm ready to install within the next month, including a full fuel return, larger fuel pump, E85, ported and polished intake manifold, etc etc. I'll be putting down a bit over 600whp. But, I'm at the point where if I continue on, my tranny is gonna go and to toss in parts from a used OEM tranny will net around $1500-2k. New OEM gearsets will cost me ~$2800, and both will break again at some point. A bulletproof tranny will be ~$5k in parts plus labor. And then I'll need to build my motor, and at that point I'll be over 10k deep into those two areas alone. My idea is that if I part my car out, I'll get between $10k-$12k in parts to go completely back to stock. That means ALL suspension components (I have nearly every suspension component upgrade that can be made), wheels/tires, big brake kit, turbo setup, exhaust, valve cover, intake manifold, etc. So, if I have that, plus trading my car in, I'll be around $25-26k. And I have the money for the remainder. I'm currently waiting on a response to get into my doctorate program. If it's a yes or a no, I want the car beforehand. If I wait until after, I'll be buying a house, paying my mortgage, school loans, much higher monthly bills, and the other goods that come along with it. I asked a buddy of mine who completed what I've set out to complete in terms of school, and he said if I have the chance to get it now that I should. Because it's a lot different than you'd think once you're out of school. So, that's my story in a nutshell.

You gotta remember, cost of entry is one thing but maintaining a Porsche is completely different and at a another level than a Honda. I used to hot rod Honda's back in the Jackson Racing days(80's/early 90's) so I can appreciate a Honda but totally different animals compared to a Porsche. You should automatically set aside some funds for maintenance if you're on a limited budget. BTW, do kid's really have money these days to be buying expensive parts for their older Civics? Seems like a lot of them want to or can only afford to buy the cheap ebay stuff. I know vDub crowd goes ape$hit wild on the biggest/fattest/rarest wheels they can find that usually end up being more than the worth of their cars.

Dude. You don't want a 996. Get a golf TDI. Non-turbo/Non-gt3 996s have a $8-15,000 grenade riding around in the back of them. You really want to get in that game and be up to your ears in debt? Sounds pretty dumb.

I say get your schooling done and career off the ground. Cars are not appreciating assets. You will have plenty of time to get a Porsche. In fact, the longer you wait, you will be able to get a 997 or even a 991 used in a few years for similar prices of a 996 now. Remember that 997s from 2009+ eliminated the IMS and appear to be reliable. I would wait and look to get a 09+ 997 in a few years. If you have to get one now, your price range is good for a 2002-2004 996. Get a carfax and pre-purchase inspection from a reputable company.

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Of course, I have money on the side for the car if things go wrong. And absolutely, not that mine is old but older civics tend to be budget builds and track cars now. For example, I have a one-off custom top mount manifold from SRT that was on the highest horsepower Si in the world two years go. He swapped to a different manifold and made even more power. So, that appeals to people from the start. And everything I have on the car is quality without a doubt.

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I wouldn't get a golf. And are the 996 motors that bad? I'm here for research, so if you don't mind explaining that would be great. I know they're not appreciating assets, I agree. Essentially, I have a 996 already. I'll just be liquidating my assets (car and car parts) and I have a 996. And I didn't know the 997.2's eliminated the IMS. That's what I'm here for, finding out info. I was thinking of getting a sort of extended warranty on the car when I purchase it, as I've heard that's possible.

How are you gonna swing any non-beater on ~$30K stipend? That makes no sense. Part out that civic and keep it as a daily driver if you need one (it's a $10K car I'm guessing?)

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Unfortunately with all that power, you still don't have the kind of broadband power found on some other motors, let alone torque steer issues and grip. FI on Honda's always seem to suffer some kind of mechanical failure in the long run or overheating issues on the track(road course). Been there, done that. Not to bash but Porsche is on another level regardless of what power you're pushing on a FF Honda on a track. Although the kid that used to hang out at my garage along time ago can shame many people, including Porsche driver's on the track. http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/f...f/viewall.html As for M96's being reliable...

Well Alp, Sneaky P, Im waiting? ??????????

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So what? You might have some followers here and there. Maybe PM him and others privately for the next JG DT-40 Group Buy?

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The car would sell for ~15k, I'll take a hit as a trade in though. Car is immaculate. And that's what I'm trying to figure out, what is bad about the NA 996 that it can't be daily driven? What typically goes wrong? I understand that things can go wrong from time to time, which happens with everything. But is this car really that much of a worry? Well of course, the powerband is set for a daily driver. This car can easily be tracked, but it's my daily driver. Of course a Porsche is on another level, that's the reason why I'm looking into it. As for traction, Hondata Traction Control gives me full traction in every gear. Car will run low 10's/high 9's with a built tranny and slicks. But that's not the lifestyle I'm looking for. For me, it's about having the power when I need it. If power was a real worry, I wouldn't be looking into an NA 996 (no offense meant). In terms of long term FI exposure on Honda motors, I can't vouch for. But the K20/K24 motors handle insane amounts of power without a sweat - granted the setup is properly tuned. This ain't no B/D/H series motor here Check out BoostedK20.com, it's a forum for boosted k-series motors. There are a lot of 500-600+whp guys running with years of abuse on the motors with no issue. And can you elaborate? I'm assuming the M96 is the 996 NA motor, which so far multiple people are saying is no good in terms of reliability. Please elaborate for me. I'm waiting too

sigh....trolls feeding trolls.

You seem so fixated on HP, are you looking for a straight line car? It seems like every post you made is focused on power. You might be in for a disappointment if that's the case. I mean coming from 500hp or so with ~2600 lbs or so to the NA 996 might be somewhat disappointing. If you haven't driven one yet, I would highly recommend it first and foremost before spending any more effort on what if scenarios. The motor issue has been hashed out many times if you search. I don't know if anyone wants to rewrite that book in this thread again. Search and make up your own mind. It's certainly not for everyone.

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No I'm not fixed on horsepower at all. And I'm not focused on it, but it's a valid point. Then again, with a high horsepower civic (almost contradicts itself) it's a usual topic of discussion. I definitely plan to drive one soon, hopefully this Monday as I work a lot. I'll drive it for sure. A friend of mine has a 2010 997 turbo so I plan to take that out for a spin since he's a buddy. I know the 996 NA will be much different though. To reiterate, I'm not worried about horsepower. If it comes off that way, I apologize. I'm really not worried about that. I drove my friend's NSX and it was a disappointment for sure. But I can't compare my car with full suspension, power mods and all, to pretty much stock car (aside from exhaust). I'm very open to opinions and advice, so feel free to go on. And I haven't seen much on the motor scenario in my searches so far. Would you mind linking me to a few threads? Thank you for getting back to me so frequently and quickly!

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http://bit.ly/13BKWx0

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I won't get into the whole gloom-and-doom, engines suck, expensive to maintain dispute other than to say I don't agree.... But on the MkI vs MkII, go look at a couple even if they aren't the right cars. Although the interior design changed only a bit on the MkII, the quality of the finish improved tremendously! I could describe the differences, but the best thing is to go sit in a few.

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Didn't try google. Thanks, this forum didn't have any good threads for a search. 6speedonline had a bunch of nice informational threads. I've come up with the conclusion that I'm looking for a MKII 2002-2005 I will definitely be looking at a few within the next week. I'm ready to take the step up and continue my life as planned, but with a 911. I also came across a few documents that show the 911 is actually the number one car with the least amount of issues. And the times where it wasn't number one, it was tied for second or third, behind Toyota Prius, Subaru Forester, and a few other non-performance, compact cars. Great info. Now, I need to figure out when I go to the dealerships, what to look for. I've read a few threads on a 'buyers checklist' but in terms of getting a PPI done by a Porsche tech at a different dealership, I have no clue how I would go about that.

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Not that you're looking for R/awd version but should you happen across one remember that all you'll be buying is extra weight and potential downstream repair cost, no real functionality, practicality.

Is this the 996 board or some financial planning seminar? Buy whatever the hell you want!!! Just have your eyes wide open and ask lots of questions. One suggestion - join Porsche Club of America and go to a few events. You can join for six months without a car, a program specifically designed for people like yourself. Get to know some members with 996s so you can learn about the cars in a non-sales environment and find out Porsche stuff in your area - cars that may be available but not advertised, good and bad shops to use, etc. PCA Quest Program: http://www.pca.org/Membership/PCAQuest.aspx Good luck.

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Put no faith in this information. Porsches, except for maybe Cayennes, are not primary vehicles driven daily like Toyotas and Subarus. When Porsche owners report having as few problems as the Toyotas, that's not apples to apples. And are the documents you are looking considering reported problems after the third year of ownership? A car with less than 15K miles better not have any problems for a hefty Porsche price tag. If I'm looking for a 996 to use as a daily driver I'm giving priority to the following: 1. Cars driven in climates that have year round warm weather. 2. Car that are driven at least weekly, and don't sit for long periods. 3. Cars that have some decent highway mileage, and not just a routine of short daily trips. The engines need to run to get out the buildup. 4. Cars that are not driven by "old lady" type drivers who short shift constantly in an attempt to save fuel. These engines MUST get high revs to be healthy. 5. Cars that have had some repairs. Namely the known 996 weak spots. Parts don't last forever, and on these cars they are expensive. A car with over 60K miles, driven in changing seasons that has only had oil changes is car you'll be fixing. 6. records, records, records. No records? crap shoot. 7. If the owner has a recent oil analysis (ie Blackstone) to show you, that's generally a signe of a guy who stays on top of things engine wise. 8. Make sure the rear tires are in good shape. Quality rubber is expensive. You don't want to start off -$1,200 in the hole. If the tires suck, negotiate that off the price. It's not like changing out the wipers at Pep Boys.

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I'm fine with a RWD, I feel that with AWD I'll be tempted to do too many clutch dumps Thank you for that info! I'll definitely look into that, sounds perfect for me. And Panamera's too, but that makes a lot of sense. Great points, thank you. I was actually thinking about this yesterday. _____________________________________ As an update, I found a local 2004 MKII black 996 available at a Mercedes Benz dealership. I wanted to do what you all suggested and just drive one first, so I called, asked to setup an appointment for a test drive, and they treated me great. I love the car so far, I didn't go past ~4800rpm because I just wanted to see how it would perform on a daily driving scenario (highway and residential/city) with lower-mid rpms. I'm coming from a high-revving car that makes it's real power upwards of 5500rpm (and redline's at 8800 ) so I just wanted to see the overall daily driving feel. The acceleration/power will be a plus, but not a primary thing. If it was, I'd go with a 911 turbo. Anyway, I enjoyed everything about the car. The steering geometry, suspension, feel, and sound are great. It doesn't have much torque down low compared to a 2011 Nissan Maxima, but thats not apples to apples. Both are 6bangers, but different transmissions, powerbands, etc. 996 has a very long clutch throw compared to my Si but that's no issue, just a side note. The entire car is just very raw - the motor, the tone of the entire car when stock, the look, everything. It's really nice, and the rear storage (a.k.a rear seats) are great for my jacket and other small things I'd need on a daily basis like a briefcase, backpack, gym back, etc. So, now I'm waiting on some in-depth insurance quotes before I go forward. Once I find that out and if it's something I can really swing, the Si will get parted out and driven stock until I find the exact 996 I'm looking for. Thank you all so far for your input, I appreciate it all. I'll be test-driving a few more 996's within the week to get more of a feel.

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Just as a heads-up... Porsche 996's do not like to be lugged or short-shifted! Most believe that it also shortens the life of the IMS bearing (though that could just be folk-lore). You don't need to be banging it against the rev limiter every upshift, but definitely don't try to keep it under 5,000 rpm, even for around town driving.

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Really? So would it be suggested to hit a higher rpm 5k+ most times the car is driven?

Glad you had a chance to drive one. The gearing is really tall compared to most Hondas which seems a bit weird first. It's nice you can hit 60 in second and downshift to 3rd at any sane highway speeds under 3 digits without any worries. I generally don't like lugging the engine under 2k but I drive it pretty hard most of the time. Like I say, if you're not getting in the low teens for mpg, you're not really having as much fun as you could be.

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Personally, I can't imagine not hitting 5K multiple times on any drive... Unless perhaps I'm juggling cars in the driveway! Of course the solution is either to do an intake mod or exhaust mod. The sound at higher RPMs is intoxicating and addictive!

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+1 Plus she doesnt get going really till 3500 and then its full on fun to pull on it through to 6500 or so ...

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Me too, I'm very happy to have driven one. Soon I'll be driving a few more, and I can't wait to finalize some things and really get going on my 911 hunt. I'll make sure to rev the next one higher Sounds good to me, and I will DEFINITELY be looking to do an exhaust. Muffler bypasses seem to be the best in terms of sound and performance. But I can't be looking into modding too much yet, I'll end up with a fully built 911 Duly noted! I look forward to enjoying this fun and go proing all my fun drives My biggest issue at this point seems to be insurance. I have a friend looking into it for me, he'll get me to the best company that I can swing. I was in a bad car accident a year ago, guy blew a red light and sent me into a pole. A few broken things and some surgeries later, I'm alive and ready for a 911. And, for the record, the accident wasn't in my civic. It was in a rental car when my civic was backed into while parked

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Might try doing the intake mod and see how you like the sound before dong the exhaust. Cost almost nothing, is completely reversible and can be done in a few minutes. I was planning on doing the muffler bypass mod as well, but I'm kind of digging the intake howl without the exhaust growl! There are a few ways of doing the mod, ranging from a correctly sized lid placed into the factory hemholtz resonator (search your garage or grocery store shelves for something just right) to vastly overpriced kits from a few unnamed vendors... I went with a silicone hose from ebay ($35 shippped) to replace the stock intake pipe and a simple 1-1/2" rubber pipe cap to block off the resonator port. This is considered to be a zero performance gain mod... strictly for better sound undoing all that wonderful engineering to keep the noise levels of the 911 within strict euro regs.

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Sounds good to me, thanks for the info! I do have another question for all of you though, not sure if you would know. I'm strongly moving forward in the process of owning a 996, but is there any warranty I can get on the car? To my understanding, no company will do that because of the cost of repairs on a Porsche.