Opinions needed-First time posting 996TT purchase

I am looking to solicit the opinions of this forum. I am new to the 996 but not the P-cars. Presently own a Boxster S bought new in 2000. I am presently looking at an 04 996TT Cab tip, with 43,000 miles. It's a highly optioned car, original sticker $176K. (power package w/ceramics), loaded up CF. It's CPO'd and the dealer is asking $64K. I have driven and lightly inspected the car. It's in great shape, but not perfect. Typical small paint blems not unexpected from a 6 yo car with 40K miles. How far off is the price from market value? I have researched the 'value' from a blue book perspective, but that doesn't necessarily correlate with TMV. I had been reading the forums and downloaded a couple of checklists that I will complete, should I elect to move forward. Any advice is welcome. Beavis

Hopefully this will help you out? http://www.pricehub.com/price/Porsche/911

always move forward - till you either hit a roadblock or make it thru - you didnt post any roadblocks... so move forward. price is not my area of expertise....(we have yet to find my area) but $65k is a lot of money. (where are you located, I might have seen this car)

When I look at car pricing information, I like to think of it like anything else that trades. There is an asking price, bid price, and finally settlement price. Ask price is easy. check this out http://tinyurl.com/242qyen Bid, well that's you and, prior to the recession, other qualified competitive bidders Settlement is elusive. The above link, while interesting, won't tell you how much people are paying today. I would recommend picking up a 1 day or other short subscription to the relevant dealer Black Book service in your area (for example, Galves which is the prevalent one in the northeast charges about 10 bucks for a day or two). These services show exactly how much dealers are paying for these cars at auction each month. This is the best and only real way to understand the bottom line of any normal car deal. Think of it like knowing the invoice price in a new car deal. Once you know how much dealers are paying for these cars, then it's simply a matter of adding up the amount of money they spent to certify the car (ask them for a breakdown they have to give you this) , the certification fee itself (which I have heard has increased, I would pencil it in at $3500) and their profit margin, which is a function of supply & demand. Convertibles sold in May rarely go at a thin margin, since they'll be able to sell em in June, in July etc, and it doesn't help that the turbo cabs are 04 & 05, then you have to wait until 2008 for the next one (110k+) Finally, opinion on the deal, powerkit & pccb are very nice on 04, but remember don't have the turbo S badging of the 05 (which i could care less about but might affect resale somewhat). Car is a tip which will make resale as well as adding power more difficult, but is a very nice transmission in a turbo were you run out of gear really fast in 6spd. I would bid $56-57k, and try to buy for less than $60 Best, Hans

Thanks for all the input. Please keep it coming! The car is in Cincinnati. Details are: Midnight Blue Metallic/Black top & leather: 692 6 disc changer XSC Crest in Headrest 249 Tip 342 Heated seats 513 Lumbar support R 586 Lumbar support L 982 Soft leather centers E73 CF Interior XMJ Rear console CF X69 Door entry CF Z0997 Custom tailoring?? CJA Tip Gate CF CJJ Belt outlet CF CPU Key pouch interior color?? CUV Storage compartment with logo P81 Adaptive seats 450 PCCB CPZ Thicker steering wheel X50 Turbo power X54 Stainless steel exhaust XRC 18" sport techno wheel Y61 CF brake handle Carfax is clean. Dealer claims it was one owner. Car was traded from Florida to Chicago between dealers. It was later registered in Arizona. (Could indicate a second owner, or original owner moved.) How successful have others been in satisfactory reconditioning by the dealer? Is it possible to remove slight wear marks from the leather (seats & dash)? The car has been sitting on the showroom for a few weeks and I am sure it's been pawed over my numerous people. Again, no show stoppers, just want it as spotless as possible. Thanks for the advice- Beavis

I had the same thing on my CarFax regarding the original owner. The report showed 2 owners, but it was just the same owner who moved and reg. it in another state. Best of luck with your purchase!

Have you searched Autotrader.com for Turbo pricing, or Ebaymotors etc. I have seen Turbos for less $ than yours, maybe not as loaded. You ought to find numerous choices to make a valid comparison. Have you driven a 911 Turbo?

Thanks for your input Barn996. Yes I have searched e-bay, Cars.com & Autotrader. I find it difficult to truly understand the condition of the vehicles as I am unable to see them in person (nothing new here). However, it has helped me understand the TMV for these cars. I did drive the car in questions over the weekend and was quite impressed. The power is intoxicating, yet the car has enough road manners that my wife could drive it from time to time and not be afraid of it. What recommendations would someone have with respect to moving forward with the dealer? Should I try and negotiate a price prior to a 'punch list' of minor re-conditioning? Or, give them a list of things I would like repaired before determining the best price? Thanks- Beavis

Many buyers would use the PPI results to either lower the purchase price, or have them completed(any items listed after an inspection that need attention) by the dealer before you take possession of the vehicle. I have trouble doing any negotiations before driving the vehicle(which you did), and having the results of a thorough inpection by a knowledgeable and preferably, an unbiased Porsche technician. Condition in and out are important, records of any work done, and be sure it hasn't been in an accident. GL Keep us posted, I want a ride.

IMO all of those fancy options mean squat on a 7 year old car. They only come into play if other parties are interested in the car as well. Find the TMV or other pricing guides for a clean 2004 TT cab and forget about loading up the options. They were overpriced brand new and they may cause you to pay too much for a 7 year old car. Sounds like a great car though. If the PPI and 1 owner story check out, it is quite a find. I would start at $57K. That's bring them a check and pulling a deal or no deal!

Thanks all. I speaking with the dealer, I don't think I can get it for less than $59,500. I agree with the comment above with the options. I really don't care about all the CF, and really don't value it. Please help me with the PPI. The car is at a P-car dealer, and is CPO'd. They have agreed to show me what was noted on the CPO inspection and what was replace/fixed as a result. Should I take the car to another shop and have it inspected?? Thanks.

Will the seller CPO the car for you?

If you love it, get it. The turbo prices are going up in auctions...abotu 6 k so far this year. Thread on this topic on 6speed. In my opinion, it is real, but soft. I am partial to 996TT's. Good luck! Jeff

Barn996- Yes the dealer has CPO'd the car. The dealer gave me a copy of the inspection report. Minor things were repaired (radio ****, weather stripping on the top) total cost of $1100.00. Brake pad life 50% on the front, 80% on the rear. How expensive are PCCB pads? They can produce no recent service records, so I assume that I should negotiate in the deal that the car should be serviced? What should I ask for oil change? brake fluid flush? Other? Thanks-

The PCCB pads are $278 front and $289 rear. You can get them for less at Sunet Porsche. Make sure the the rotors are in good shape with a decent amount of life left. A new set of rotors will set you back BIG $$$$$$$$$$, like $15,800. Front rotors $8,535 and Rear rotor $7,311. OUCH!! http://www.suncoastparts.com/categor...tceramics.html

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Hey, Be careful with the CF trim. I don't believe that it wears well. I have seen numerous cars with broken CF pieces that look like crap and cost $ to repair / replace. Personally I don't like it at all and would not buy a car with the complete package. But that's just me. Barry

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Do n't scare/scar the guy Tim! Those rotors, if not used at the track will last a long long long long long time.

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Jim, I agree, the ceramic rotors WILL last a long time. However, because of the cost involved with replacing the rotors, I was telling him to check and make sure that the rotors on the car have a decent amount amount of life remaining on them.

prices for them have droped in 1/2 - its only $5k/axle now

Do you have any for sale? Just asking.

^^^ That is pretty funny

Gota911- Thanks for heads-up on the rotor costs. I definitely don't want to have to replace the rotors! How can I determine how much life is left? Do I measure the thickness? Ask the service department to check them? Can I trust the opinion of the service guys who work for the same dealer that is selling the car? I have read that these rotors should be good for X00,000 miles. Is this just urban folklore? Thanks.

No, that is not urban folklore. The rotors should last over 100,000 + miles of street driving. Ask what the thickness of new rotors are and then have them measure the rotors on the car. You know the mileage of the car so you will be able to calculate the number of miles remaining on the rotors. The guys on the 997 GT2/GT3 Forum should be able to tell you the original thickness of the PCCB rotors and also tell you the thickness when they are worn out. Hope this helps.

Here's a few data points. I have PCCBs on my 2006 997S and I mic'ed the pads at 38,000 miles and found that with my way of braking (which is not that easy!) I wore off .6mm in those miles. The brake material is 10.6mm thick on a new pad. I estimate that I will get 200,000 or more from my rotors and easily in excess of 100,000 on the pads, alone. All you have for PCCB maintenance is to flush the brake system every two years and call it good. Incredible. The reason the PCCBs generate so little dust daily is because you are simply not wearing anything out. Sadly, when the Feds made Asbestos a bad thing in automotive brakes they wound up putting more metal into the pads and that stuff simply grinds down the soft iron in the modern day rotors. I have been a Porsche guy since the 1970s and NEVER had to replace a rotor in my life before, but you can bet most 996 and 997 owners have to pony up every 45-50,000 miles for new pads and iron rotors. PCCBs are an upfront investment that pays you a dividend over time, and thus few order them because they never consider keeping a car long enough for the payback. (I keep my cars a long time so I ordered them). The biggest competition to that 996T selling for that price are a hell of a lot of 997s. Many would choose a 997S over a 996T for a variety of reasons and that is what has softened the market for even a highly loaded 996 Turbo. (Personally, I would take the 997, but I'm obviously biased). The CF stuff in the car mislabeled. It's plastic, quite honestly. And plastic just doesn't do well over time.

Dan, in your post above ^, you mentioned measuring the pads. Did you measure the rotors? If so, how much wear do you have on them at 40k + miles? Also, do you know the thickness of new ceramic rotors? I'm just trying to get some additional info posted for the OP.

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You saying Ed is attracted to anything "yellow?" Yellow Calipers, wings etc..

I would never....

Maybe prices are going up, but that seems on the high-side. Plus side: X50, CPO, PCCB. Minus side: Tip. Vert's cost more originally, but I'm not sure they should sell for more on the used car market. The rest of the options really shouldn't effect value. Six months ago (when I was in the market) you could get an X-50 coupe with half the miles for low 50s. Again, maybe prices are going up; I haven't really been keeping track since I bought mine in January. I wouldn't pay more than $60K, and if I was it wouldn't be that car - it would be a used 6GT2. (edit - I know it would be much more than 60s). Have fun with the process.