Interesting article about the age old debate

http://www.insideline.com/porsche/91...rsche-993.html

Nice article... I don't understand why even in this article the 996 is put down. I've not driven a 997 yet but really is there THAT much of a difference between the personality of an MKII 996 and a 997? They seem to be essentially the same vehicle with some minor suspension differences and of course the new body. Anyone care to share a comparison between those who have driven both?

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I've driven both. The differences are not dramatic. The interior is far better in the 997 IMO. The driving dynamics are not. I'm comparing my car and a 2005 base 997.

Funny I was just talking to a 997.1 GT3 RS owner. He also has a 996 GT3. He hates the GT3RS and told me it is a terrible track car, where as you can make the 996 GT3 dance at the track. He basically said to go with the 996 GT3, no nanny controls and its lighter. The 997.1 may have more hp but it is heavier and going up the back straight on my local track the 997 doesn't pull on the 996 GT3 at all. At his local track his 996 GT3 on MS cups is 2 seconds faster then the RS on Hoosiers. I was shocked listening to this. I would like an RS bad. The looks are amazing but its a street car not a track car.

Personally I think the 993 is ugly....It wasnt even a choice when I was looking for a new porsche. It looks dated and not a fan of aircooled....my 87 motor would vary so greatly in temperature even with three oil coolers up front. Aircooled motors are to be respected but Im not a big fan....plus the EDIT - VALVE COVERS that would warp....I could go on...I really like my 996, it looks good it, sounds good and has been very very reliable and depending how fast and the road conditions you still need to fight with the wheel to get the car to do what you want it too. A bit irritated that the 996 is constantly pissed on.

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I prefer being a part of the outcasts.

I drove a number of the pre-996 Porsches and never bought one. They were fun for a test drive but I couldn't see it as my only car, for daily use (I drive about 6K miles/yr, so owning more than one car doesn't make sense to me). I revisited the idea of buying a Porsche because a friend got one and it had a great A/C, comfortable power seats, and was softer riding and quieter than the older cars I remembered. I looked at lots of '03 and '04 996's before buying and would've been very comfortable with a 996, but a base '05 997 came along at not much more than an '04, and I liked the dash cluster and headlights better. Otherwise I really couldn't tell much difference. Then again I'm not a sporty driver. As for comparison to a 2010...I can think of about 40,000 reasons I prefer my '05

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Now THAT doesn't make sense.

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Maybe you meant "I'm not sure what you meant by that" or perhaps "It doesn't make sense to me ", because I'm positive you can't be so arrogant as to assert that it doesn't make sense, period. Not everyone who buys a Porsche is into playing boy-racer. I happen to like how it looks, and for that am willing to tolerate that it's not as smooth and quiet as a Lexus.

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You must admit that you are not the "norm" Porsche buyer/owner. Tolerating the ride because you prefer the ride of a lexus and buying the car for its shape is not going to be the reason why most folks bought these cars. To each his/her own

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yeah no kidding. I mean god, I hate when my aircooled engine warps oil pans. Oh wait...it has a dry sump oil system and has case halves...meaning...you guessed it....there is no oil pan. Care to revise your statement? Oh and please go on about the other "problems" you've experienced. Let me guess, your radiator leaked coolant too right? You are in the clear minority if you think the 993 is ugly.

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I posted this in November 2007 as a way of addressing the progress Porsche made in moving from the 993 to the 996. I think the comparisons in the Excellence article are applicable to a 993 vs. 997 comparison as well. For a thorough assessment of the 993 vs. the 996, read the 996 road test in the August 1998 issue of Excellence magazine. Additional contributions to the article came from Hurley Haywood. Here are some points in the article that identify some of the major improvements made by Porsche in the new model as well as impressions of the testers. "The 993 lacks the poise and balance of the new 996. And it's a lot less comfortable to drive. My head feels pressed against the glass of the old upright windshield, and the floor-mounted clutch and brake pedals preclude heel and toeing." "The longer wheelbase (up 3") and widened track (up 2") of the 996 optimize the rear-engined platform. The quantum improvement from 993 to 996 far exceeds the wampum leap Porsche made from the Carrera 2 to the 993." "The laden ground clearance of the 996 is 1" less than that of the 993, effectively lowering the new 911's center of gravity." "The gearchange is so much better than anything Porsche has done before...." "Significantly, the new 3.4 liter motor is not only 26 hp more powerful than the old one (despite being 200 cc smaller) but it is also 110 pounds lighter than the old lump."

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Relax...you're taking my comment much too literally. I was being jocular.

Hurley Haywood can't heel and toe a 993 because of floor mounted pedals? LOL Having driven both daily, I can say with complete certainty that the 996 has it all over the 993 in every measurable way. It is a better car, with more comfort, convenience, space, modernity, real world performance envelope, etc, etc. The 997 is probably all that plus 10%. But the 993 is a better 911. Evidence? None. But when you drive one it's obvious.

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Im sorry warped valve covers ... my mistake ....I absolutely dont like the shape of the 993s..period....911s prior I love the classic lines but not the 993. No need for the insults. I had an 82 911sc w/ an 87 3.2 Euro spec motor...and was tired of the constant **** marks and the varying temperature especially sitting in traffic during the summer months. You act as if I walked up and kicked your dog....relax.

it appears that the engine in the 993 in this article was a special edition. Maybe that is why the were so impressed with it? "...carefully cared-for Porsche 993. When you change gear, you can feel the cogs engage and hear the cam belts working in the engine..."

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101% Agree I have both;the 996 and a ES300.

Whoo hot in here much? You want my opinion? Sure. 993 looks the best, classic 911 lines. Not better than the old long hood though, maybe better than the impact bumper cars...maybe. I kind of like the 997 styling better than the 996. I dunno - I like the round headlights. Call me conformist. Buying a 996 for the looks though? And not for the driving experience? Yeah I gotta object to that also. Sorry. I bought my 996 for the drive *despite* the looks! I recently drove a stock base 997 back to back against my 996 r(which is on bilstien PSS9) I'd swear they were the same car. I'm sure the3.8 litre S would pull better, especially with the sport chrono, but the 3.6 normal felt exactly the same as my car . I drove a 993 before I bought my 996 and it felt wobbly and lazy. I'm sure with some tweaking it would have been fine, but geez I gotta daily drive my car these days so I passed. Interior wise I prefer spartan, and installed the centre console delete kit in my 996 for the extra leg room. No chance to do this in the 997. More luxurious is not better. The guy who wrote that article is a bit of a prat. I don't think he dumped on the 996 that badly, but I am annoyed he says it was heavier than the 993. That's just not true. Anyway - hate away. Like it or not the air cooled cars have been relegated to heritage status. When I attend club meets nowadays it's almost all liquid coolded cars.

Living with a dynomite bike that likes to climb to 215 before the fans kick in at lights the temps of air cooled doesn't sound bad. Then not tossing a 993 around I just have to figure the planted feeling of the 996 is good and have heard its better than the 993. To each their own but make sure what ever it is make sure it has enough power to get its self out of trouble with power in turns.

I'll sum up everyone's thoughts: The 993 is the better car when it's stationary and the driver is outside. The 996/997 is the better car when it's in motion and the driver is inside.

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Not many will admit it if they did, so it's hard to get an accurate tally

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depends on your definition of better. The 996 has better performance figures and I'll call it better stability, but by most accounts, the 993 feels more alive, more direct, and more raw. If you only care about numbers and need to daily drive it, the 996 is the no brainer. If you enjoy the experience more than the figures, and can use it as a weekend car, the 993 is the no brainer.

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Kinda' like subscribing to Playboy, but only for reading the articles, not lookin' at the pictures...

I've driven every 911 since the 1960s. Classic 911, 964, 993, 996, and 997. Each had their own special feel to them. But the best handling one is the 997. I opted for a cabriolet this time and the rigidity of the 997 cabs over the 996 cabs is remarkable. On those horribly hot summer days I don't have air-cooled engine envy at all! The climate control system in these latter cars (996/7) is vastly superior. I certainly don't need a track car so when Porsche deleted the separate dry sump and moved to the integrated dry sump I have benefited by less leaks and a lower oil system capacity. The ones I liked the least? The earliest 911s and the 964s. The early ones just had too many issues with them even when young, and the 964 was such a compromise cluge job.

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Exactly. It's hard to have any respect for the authors opinion when he can't even get the most basic facts correct. For example he writes this about the 996; Patently false. The 996 was actually substantially lighter than the 993. This author is just another 993 ball washer.

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I have a different data point: Patrick Long [yes, the Patrick Long] drove my 996 GT3 back to back with a 997.1 GT3 - both on Hoosiers. The 997.1 was exactly 1 second faster on a 1.7 mile track. So, I seriously doubt that the 996 GT3 is 2 seconds faster than the 997.1 RS with the same driver. Just my $0.02. -td

Aww, Patrick was just taking it easy on your wheezy old 996 so he wouldn't break anything.

I don't normally post here- (I own a 993 and a 997) but wanted to remark on Hurley Haywood's comments. I attended the Porsche Driving Experience shortly after the 996 was introduced and talked to him for about twenty minutes about the differences between the 993 and 996. We both agreed the 996 was a better car (and I stll think they are) but also both agreed that the 993 was better looking, was far more etheral and had a nicer interior. I lamented the loss of the more upright windshield and the feeling of being more at one with the road and he said that he liked the pedals better on the 993 even though they were harder to get used to (I do too). I understand he sells cars for a living but am a bit surprised to hear that he said that about the pedals. His feet could dance on anything in a foot well BTW. I was amazed at his precision. BTW he drove a Boxster to and from the event.

"The concept didn't die with the Porsche 993; it was just reinvented for a changing world. And while the Porsche 996 undeniably took this reinvention too far , the 997 feels like a descendant of the original 1963 car." Leave the headlights alone. I like them. Besides that, what else was TOO FAR?

One thing that makes me ponder is the bs that comes today with safety regulations and stuff. The 996 was introduced and produced in great numbers, leasing allowed a lot of people to get into one. The lawyers and doctors that came from lexus, mercedes and bimmers which all complained about road noise, exhaust drone, to hard of suspension, and many other stupid things these people can think of. Hence the 997 was born, a retro look a like but with all the Porsche taken out of it. I hate to imagine what the next 911 will be like. Seems it only goes down hill from the 993. Well at least on the forums.

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The Boxster Spyder gives me great hope.

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A sub-3000lb 911 would be nice. Wouldn't need silly-huge brakes and wheels. Wouldn't need a V8 and 450hp. Who am I kidding? Next 911 = 3500lbs+, 20" wheels, automatic everything and lots of servo motors to adjust things you can easily reach. And red seat belts for $4000 extra.