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YOUR RESEARCHFun project
Leading reported evidence
Clean radiators
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Leading evidence: 'Clean radiators' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'reason' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Clean bra vs' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suspected cause
In the hotter (120 F summer weather) areas, opening up the flow (street use) should get more cooling to the radiators where the cooling is limited by the outside temp (something about delta T) In a race environment where cavitation is more likely the reason for the change, an increased diameter pulley to slow the pump down may very well be worth more in the end.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
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0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Suggestion · Original poster
Let me know, I'm happy to help with a radiator cleaning party now that I know how to do it.
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Suggestion
In the hotter (120 F summer weather) areas, opening up the flow (street use) should get more cooling to the radiators where the cooling is limited by the outside temp (something about delta T) In a race environment where cavitation is more likely the reason for the change, an increased diameter pulley to slow the pump down may very well be worth more in the end.
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reason
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Identified cause
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Read evidence and context
Discussions that suspect a cause
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0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
In the hotter (120 F summer weather) areas, opening up the flow (street use) should get more cooling to the radiators where the cooling is limited by the outside temp (something about delta T) In a race environment where cavitation is more likely the reason for the change, an increased diameter pulley to slow the pump down may very well be worth more in the end.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
37 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Generation: 20261027T154520Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Hey guys,
Just cleaned my radiators today. Pretty fun and fairly easy. I did run into some snags but overall, no biggie. Car runs quite a bit cooler now.
Next on the list: install my B&M short shift.
I have had to clean the radiatiors on many occasions, what worries me is that you can't get everything out. The next step is to install screens so that stuff doesn't get into it to begin with.
Removal of the bumper is not that hard but there are a few things that slow you down. All of the screws for the bumper are Phillips but you will need a set of torx bits to pull/pivot the AC condensers out of the way. You'll need a stubby screwdriver or a bit extension once you break it loose to remove the small screw behind the side marker light (there are 2). One of them is easy, the other is difficult to get to since you have to pull the fender liner back a bit and slowly back that screw out. I was able to get a standard sized screwdriver in to the space but it was pretty difficult to fit my hand and turn the screw driver due to the limited space. Everything else was really easy. There is a great set of instructions on Loren's sight Renntech, in the DIY Section that I used.
It's really easy to align the bumper. Kind of scary how everything more or less slides back into place without much fuss. I was expecting it to be harder. You would be amazed at how much leaves, cigarette butts and sand/grit is trapped between the AC condensers and the radiator. There's a sizable dirt trail slick that flows down my driveway now. Vacuuming won't take care of the issue (it may improve it slightly but that's only a stop-gap measure).
My only recommendation is to buy a trim removal tool, the one that looks like a screwdriver but has a fork like end. It will make removing the 2 trim rivets in the fender liner much easier to take out. I have such a tool but Murphy's law dictated that I couldn't find it. The irony of the situation is that I saw it a few weeks ago in my tool box. I'm sure I'll find it in a few weeks now that I don't need it. LOL
Mick, if you want some help cleaning them out, let me know.
There is no difference between having debris on the radiators blocking airflow and installing screens to block airflow? Both will reduce your cooling capacity.
The fact is, for optimum cooling, you are stuck with the chore of cleaning the radiators periodically, as required. Everything else is nothing but "bling".
the new gt3 has grill protection.... in the interview, some official said it took only 12% of the air away from the radiators.... Im thinking , damn thats alot! .... but many people wanted it and Porsche listened.
I saw a cup car come in for service after the 24 hours of Daytona... those screens get replaced, as well as the entire front bumper. The one for the race was destroyed by debris (no accidents) Its all considered expendable on those cars....
(I thought about taking the old one home for my imaginary GT2
)
It really depends on where you drive. When I did my 02 with 6 years & 38k miles on it, there was no mud at all. Just a 2" high compost pile (literally), plus sand, butts, and plenty of leaves between the condenser & rads. The condenser sits about an inch higher than the rads, so plenty gets caught underneath the condenser against the rads. It took about 2 hours to really clean them out well. There is a small drain hole inthe farthest lower corner, that of course plugs in a heartbeat, as any leaves get driven right to it from the suction. I vacuum mine throught the bumper regularly, and always hear the small leaves and sand getting sucked in. If I put a screen on, I wouldn't be able to vacuum, and the sand would still get through, as well as the smaller leaves and pollen crap that is so abundant here. Naturally, this is easy if you garage your car and have a shopvac setuip withthe right attachments. It only takes literally a minute, and the last time I took my bumper off with almost 4k more miles, they were still clean.
BTW, that friggin screw underneatth the side marker that you have to pull the fender liner away to get at is a real PITA to get back in. The hardest aprt of putting the bumper cover back on is getting it back around the fender liner, even with it loose. Also, watch the gap between the top of the bumper and the hood. It is easy to push it too far up against the hood (that distance is adjustable, and is held by the friction of two screws only), and then the hood release will not work.
The screens on a cup car are more for protecting the radiators than keeping them clean. I'm sure they block some debris but they still clean mine after every race.
Having said that, I wouldn't hesitate putting screens on a street car as long as they have reasonably large openings. I used wire mesh screens on my old 996 racecar.
I'm sure there is an engineer somewhere on RL that can give you the air flow properties of different screens.
that's my point.
given two options: radiators with debris, or screens, screens win. The effect on cooling by adding screens I would guess is negligible.
Rad cleaning party sometime? I'm sure mine need it.
Sitting in traffic yesterday (cool day, ~50 degrees), my temp gauge rose to just over 1/2 way on the gauge (sitting on the '0' of 180). Is this normal or too high?
Let me know, I'm happy to help with a radiator cleaning party now that I know how to do it. Can't do it this Saturday though, I'm going to be an Summit Point at an autocross. Going to shake some of the cobwebs loose in my car and my driving. LOL
Don't forget that your gauge is not an accurate indication of the engine temperature. Your engine CANNOT operate at 180F under ANY circumstances. Thermostat opens at 180F. Porsche's target coolant temperature is 194F and, most likely, your temperature is 200F+ except on the open road. Very common to see 215F+ around town with the stock setup.
So Jim.... its OK to take the thermostat out if you dont care about heat in your car?
I did this to my old school camaro and prefered to run w/o a thermostat.
Red... running w/o a thermostat seems like a good idea and like you suggest, keeps the motor cooler, but todays cars are designed to run hot. Personally I have done the same thing on on old Chevy 327, but I would never dream of running any modern car w/o the thermostat. The heat is what burns things like water vapors out of the oil also. Most (if not all) modern engines run at 194 or higher and the faster you get the temp up the better it is for the motor due to thermal expanssion and things of such nature.
just my .02 on the subject
Yes, it is perfectly safe to remove the thermostat. Heat will still work as it does now but the engine will take longer to reach proper temperature. The only other drawback to running without a thermostat is if you regularly drive short distance as the engine will never fully warm up. If that is not your driving style, then there is no worry.
Removing the restiriction of the thermostat, even when it's open, greatly increases the flow of coolant and provides substantially more efficient cooling. Water pump is under sized for application which is why removal, works. If the water pump and cooling system was up to task, you could actually see warmer coolant temperatures by removing a thermostat.
agreed, however the slower warm up is where you might see more issues down the road. (no real scientific data, just my opinion) since the motor runs longer with the tolerances "loose" due to the lack of expanssion of the internal componants.
But running cooler on the open road or around the track might offset this...
What do the race cars run? (anyone know) and do they run differant at an endurance race -vs- a short race?
If this is the case, how do we actually know that the engine is running cooler?
Actually slower warm up is a good thing... this will ensure that the engine comes up to temp uniformally (lesser chance of hot/cold spots on the engine).... this is the main reason why Porsche shared the 2 cooling radiators to one line.... so that the 2 cooling lines mixes with each other rather than have 2 diff cooling temps..... you still cant rev passed 4k till its up to temp... like Jim said, short trips will suck.... But mine is weekend toy, nothing else.
[QUOTE=redridge;6413723]If this is the case, how do we actually know that the engine is running cooler?
QUOTE]
I didn't say you would run cooler, but that the system will be more efficient. However, the engine will run cooler, especially on the open road or when airflow is adequate. In around town driving, the increase in coolant flow will reduce temperatures a few degrees by itself and introducing more airflow will subatantially reduce temperatures.
The improved efficiency will reduce coolant temperature much more quickly when airflow is good.
Measuring your coolant temperature might be a novel way to determine if it is running cooler.
If you don't want to run without a thermostat all the time, a simple modification to the thermostat feed line, such as a bypass hose you can open and close, would also work.
I don't race anymore, but I would never run an engine driven water pump, AC or PS pump if I ran a track only car. If the car was both for track and street, then you have to compromise.
I just had an interesting talk with one of our engineers about this subject. Some background is he was in racing for years, (AC Cobra's) and built a couple race engines. He understand thermal issues quite well and we talked about this.
I guess what I came away with it, why are you removing it? If you live in a warm area (i.e. Texas) this actually might make sense, where as the cold areas would not benefit as much. That said, there are some flow issues (as earlier discussed) where the RPM is driving the water pump so fast that the inlet pipe restriction will not supply enough water, thus resulting in cavitation on the pump (pumping air) which we all agree is bad. The solution is dependant on your specific needs. In the hotter (120 F summer weather) areas, opening up the flow (street use) should get more cooling to the radiators where the cooling is limited by the outside temp (something about delta T) In a race environment where cavitation is more likely the reason for the change, an increased diameter pulley to slow the pump down may very well be worth more in the end. (and agreement that less restricted flow would increase cooling as long as there was sufficient radiator and there was enough drop in temp while passing thru them)
Either way, this is a good bit of info and I am glad we have been talking about it. I don't think I will make any changes, but I like knowing these things matter... and some of the reasons why they do. Since my bursts of rpm are few and far between, reducing the pulley speed is not in my future plans, but having air pumped will be on my mind since some of what we think happens to these engines might be caused from "hot spots" near the cylinder sleeves.
Food for thought
Sounds good. Let's plan for sometime in May.
My upcoming weekends are filled w/ the tech inspection this Saturday, HPDC the next, DE after that, free weekend (to do some yardwork and make amends w/ the family), then Hershey. Whew, where did April go??
You guys make an awful lot of extra work for me. Since the first post on this thread, this whole cleaning the radiators thing has been on low heat in the back of my mind. So today I went out and got down and dirty with a prod and a shop vac and cleaned out the area in front of the radiators. There were a few leaves and some "dirt" but it wasn't seriously blocking the radiators. Still it is much cleaner now.
Now I come back to read this thread, and you tell me I only got the condensors and that the real issue is hidden between the first "layer" of coolers and the second "unseen" layers.
Damn you guys, anyway! Now I have remove the bumper. Grumble grumble grumble.
