Evoms Intake, Fabspeed exhuast and Chip Tuning Update

Thanks to Dan at Vivid Racing, I have had a chance to drive my 2002 996 C4 cab for a good week sense the chip tuning has been done. I did the intake and exhaust first and the car felt a little quicker off the line. The sound was great. Not too loud , but just right at full throttle. Now that the ECU has been tuned for 93 octane and for the above modifications, the car really feels good. There is a definite improvement in the throttle response and the seat of your pants dyno. It would not surprise me at all if the car picked up 20 or 30 horsepower. I would be interested how others have felt about this mod. To me it has made a big improvement in the quickness of the car. I would like to know what the 0 to 60 time is now compared to before the modifications...any thoughts? Dan was great, answered all my (often basic) questions and had my Ecu back to me 48 hours after I sent it. Thanks Dan, I am very pleased with the results. KevinJax

20-30 hp is a bit optimistic, can't imagine all those engineers in Deutschland could only muster up 25 hp with the x51, while a tuner changes the airbox/hacks the ECU and gets 30hp. Unless you do pre and post mod dynos seqentially, you'll never really know if it helps or hurts. There was a guy here that LOST hp with the evo box. Dan from vivid is a good guy and just trying to make a living, but I think the early results (evo box) are anecdotal at best. I have my doubts about chips, I'm from Missouri, you gotta show me. Show me with multiple, repeatable gains on various dynos in a blinded fashion, bc that's what the Porsche engineers did. I won't hold my breath. Flame suit on.

Glad to hear. Everyone has opinions. We just got our AWD Dyno at our shop. As soon as it is up and running, I will do a dyno with my fabspeed and EVOMS intake before, then get the GIAC and do a after dyno. proving that they make HP. 20-30 HP with all components is VERY real with the increase in airflow and tuning the timing and fuel, the power is lifted. Cars are made from the factory to pass strict emissions, be safe for standards, there is alot hiding in those ECU's... This could be a long thread and I respect your opinion, but at the same time, the engineers at GM made a Corvette, but when you put a exhaust, intake, and chip on that, you get a whole different monster. Same with Subaru, EVO, BMW, Mercedes, Audi, VW, and many more. The cars differ, but the tuning concept remains the same. At the end of the day one thing is important, Kevin is happy with his purchase and his car!

BTW I have 500+ posts!!!!

Dan, still some way to go before reaching the magic 911 & 996 number of posts! Ciao, Johannes E. GT3 CS

There is a huge difference in the specific power outputs in terms of HP per liter. The Porsche engine has greater volumetric efficiency based on the HP/L compared to the Corvette, that's why the Corvette responds to aftermarket upgrades better.

Sounds like you're enjoying your mods, but I'm sure you realize that seat of the pants dynos are more likely to respond the aural input of a louder exhaust than to any real hp difference. It would be nice to know whether you actually got an extra hp or two, no way to know without a VERY good dyno set-up, done by someone independent of the tuning company. These set-ups are quite rare and require almost a full wind tunnel fan set-up to get real world results. This has been shown to be the case even for before and after A-B comparisons. A car that shows an improvement after mods on a dyno may actually have less real world performance than before. I would recommend as a little basic reading: http://dinancars.com/whitepapersFile.asp?ID=9 It's written for a BMW audience, but the principles are the same. Anyway, if you're enjoying it, that's what's most important in the end.

Thanks for the comments. Please note that the chip tuning was done after the sound changes took place and I will tell you the car is definately quicker. In comparison to before the car seems to breath better and the throttle response is noticeably better. To my surgical friend above, I am well aware of what a double blind placebo controlled trial is, but since I don't have access to 100 cars with blind drivers and the ability to do a sham modification to half the cars, I decided to take the word of a reputable company and take the risk. I am very glad I did because the difference is palpable. I posted this to give others my first impressions and I realize I don't have the numbers to prove it. I do believe evoms numbers after experiencing first hand. I am very pleased. Thanks again Dan. KevinJax

Seems like those without the mods are always the nay-sayers... those who have them done never look back... I'll count myself in the latter. Having done this in stages of sorts, you really don't know what you are missing until you tie the whole "mod package" together... don't expect miracles from an airbox or headers alone... you have to tie it all together. One other note... with ECU, intake, and headers, I am only out <$2k... I am happy with this sort of return on "investment." If you are talking about spending $4-5k for these mods, you may be better off saving for a supercharger...

I think the mods are worthy and certainly reasonably priced given x51's price. I happen to think the chip has real improvement based on 93 octane rating instead of 91. That setting alone can give more power not to mention other things. I am keeping mine stocked for now since I'm happy with stock performance. If you want more, I'd encourge the upgrade but hear the exhaust sound from someone's car first.

Kevin, don't take it the wrong way, you're not the one who needs to prove anything, it's the chip manufactures, etc that claim to have a majic pill at a fraction the cost that are the ones with something to prove. Doug is right VE is everything here, the 3.6 x51 motor is operating at better than 90% VE, nearly 100 hp/L. A comparible SB chevy 5.7L would be making almost 600hp at that rate, The point is these motors are highly tuned already and short of forced induction you're not going to get a whole lot more. I think mods are great, I love my fabspeed airbox, but I realize it ain't really adding any real hp. Cheers.

HERE HERE!!! i totally agree with you. everyone is entitled to their oponion and i respect that too. it's almost like there should be a separate forum regarding performance mods from people who have acutally done these mods and a separate "purist" forum for the nay-sayers (flamesuit on!!!) it's alright though, i know the numbers as i have done my own dyno testing and have come up with favorable numbers (conditional). it's funny, when i posted my dyno figures there were very few who even commented. i expected a healthy debate but nope. the supercharger idea is nice but it would screw me up in PCA time trialing, bumping me up into a higher category making the 996SC un-competitive. the fact that the SC is 13K~14K (with install) doesn't help either when the time is right then i'll spring for a gt3 engine :engine:

thanks to all...karlooz, would you mind posting youur mods and dyno numbers again? What do you guys think headers would do on top of my current three mods? Thanks! Kevin

Well said. I don't understand why there is alway so much skepticism about such mods. Porsche has to choke these cars down to comply with EPA requirements for sound and emissions. A new intake, new exhaust and ECU upgrade will most assuredly produce performane improvements that the factory COULD have done were they not constrained by the EPA and the marketplace. Remember that the VAST majority of Porsche owners are quite content with thier cars as is and do not want more sound or power. Before I put on my Supercharger I had the Evo airbox and ECU upgrade. I could very definitely feel the difference and of course the new sound was great. I highly recommend this relatively inexpensibve upgrade. Enjoy!

check my sig for my mods. if you can figure out how to open up the evo v-flow then you may get the same results as i have gotten. i have figured out my own solution check my previous THREAD for more background. originally devek only gave me a few of the runs but later gave all runs some higher numbers. i think the headers would give 5 HP, not much. unfortunately i don't have baseline/stock #s so pretty much i am speculating (devek has baseline #s for a 3.4L 996 to be ~250HP). the dyno #s are for ALL of my mods. i don't think the headers/exhaust mods would help much if you don't get a new ecu program that takes advantage of the better breathing. at the same time a new ecu program may not gain as much without the exhaust/intake mods. there is a synergy when all mods are done together.

Carlos, Any luck in "opening up" the airbox yet? I am running the exact same set-up, so I am interested in your findings... Have you talked to Todd at EVO?

Interesting to look at this EVO dyno picture... http://www.evoms.com/porsche%20ec%20art%20test.htm Note the OPEN decklid... Hmmm...

Go to 996... then to Tuning Systems for the Pic... link doesn't work so well...

my solution is coming tomorrow ! it involves an new fiberglass decklid and a dremel . i am getting a gt3 Mk1 decklid/wing and punching a big hole into it :O. the old decklid was metal and had all sort of bits and bobs preventing me from cutting out a hole at the vflow intake opening (cone filter side). i am going to cut a triangular hole at the large opening side (not the oem intake location) to free up the breathing. the gt3 decklid has a cavity below the intake port. the hole should closely line up with the intake port and possibly providing a ram air effect. looks like you are halfway there, you already have the decklid! haven't talked to todd@evoms. my earlier thread was also posted on 6speed (where i think they mainly hang out) but he didn't reply. i need to find out if their dyno results were based on an open engine bay.

ya, and it's the old style intake

Carlos, I'll take a look at my decklid tonight and ponder on things... Just a thought, but I wonder what would happen to the dyno numbers if you blow air into the stock air intake location with the decklid closed??? If you are not blowing air into this intalke, I'd assume that you are creating zero "venturi force," and not simulating real world conditions... aka the air flow from the car moving??? Any thoughts?

Just turn your engine compartment fan on. Brings in more than enough cool air.

that won't help the vflow. when the engine lid is closed the vflow is sealed and it can only draw air from the stock air intake location/opening. if you can open up the area around the cone filter then the vflow can draw in huge amounts of air from the stock opening AND then new opening. i will take pics once i have the decklid cut apart

1999Porsche911, I may be an idiot here, but how do you turn this fan on manually? Is there a switch somewhere? Sorry if this is a dumb one...

Install a switch and connect to the ground side of the fan relay. Easy on/off.

Sounds similar to a switch I had installed on my 94 RX7 TT... THAT engine would run hot, and you needed to be able to cool on comand... thanks for your help...

Oh yeah...the new one is sealed so you do have the benefit of only getitng cool air into the intake rather than collecting the hot engine air with just the filter laying there.

I have my engine compartment fan and both radiator fans hardwired. Makes a big difference riding around town.

TRUE and good point. i was made aware of this by a local tuner (sharkster). i took a look at the oem wing (the retractible type) and wasn't convinced that it would help out my situation, the wind kinda blocks the airflow rather than funneling it in. with your decklid, however, i can see that blowing air into the intake port would be more beneficial and even have a ram air effect as there isn't anything impeding the airflow. at this point your car may be making more HP than mine

would you mind posting a diy for your mod? i would like to do this too

The air pump (engine) is taking in all the air it is capable of getting through the intake tube. Unless the air is compressed in some way, there is a maximum amount of flow that the intake tube can handle, whether it is sucked in or is blown in. The only way the engine will take in more air is to make more air avalable to it and this is limited to the size of the throttlebody. The design of the Porsche lids DO NOT allow for any measuarable RAM AIR effect so no compression of air is available. You need to increase air volume and not air speed.

Two rookie questions: 1- If you have the x-51 as in a 40th Ann with the Evom and Fabspeed, do you still get even more benefit from an ECU upgrade ? 2- If you get the 93 oct., what happen if once in a while you fill with 91 octane gas...?

at speed, a larger volume of air is being forced into the same hole as when at rest. the pressure build up may be small but it is still there. of course i am talking of the gt3 decklids not the oem decklids. in fact i have seen gt3 cup cars with the cup airbox. really just a bmc cone filter with a fairing to seal it off from the engine bay heat. because of its configuration (right underneath the intake ports) it has been reported to provide a ram air effect and 17 HP. here's a link (for those interested) CLICK HERE

you probably are making more HP with the x51 kit than evom/ fabspeed/ ecu upgrade. the x51 kit is +25HP but it is reportedly on the conservative side. you already have different cams, ecu, oiling, but maybe the evo airbox may help some. get it dynoed please! i am dying to see how much power a 3.6L x51 engine puts out. no problems with the 91 octane. the ecu will automatically retard the timing if it detects knocking/pinging. in california we only have 91

Carlos: I have done a lot of testing recently on the airflow of oththe standard deck lid and the factory GT3 lid, both for airflow, pressure and temperature. None of these lid designs provide any measurable gains in flow through the vents (intake tube) while under 100 mph. You have to remember that an NA engine will only take in a specific amount of air and this amount limited by the smallest path between the intake and the air supply. The length of the tube, bends (and filter) all contribute to a decrease in air flow and an increase in the air temperature. Therefore, the practice of installing big filters and ducts came to be. The benefit of the lid you show above is you have a large area into which air can flow before it is reduced by the filter and finally the throttlebody, which is exactly what you want.. The stock intake tube effectivly limits the air volume that can get to the filter, regardless of how big the filter is. The standard factory lids (including GT3), only have vents on 1 side of the lid, limiting the amount of air that can pass through. (unlike the picture you show) An easy test would be to hookup a scanner to a Porsche that is running the stock intake tube and system. Record the reading of the MAF (air volume and temp) in a shaded area while reving the engine to 4,000 rpm's. Now take the car out and take it up to 4,000 rpm's in third gear and record the same. This will give you an actual mesaurement of any volume increase due to the car moving versus sitting still. The tests I have done show no differnce in volume and slightly cooler intake temps. (At moderate speeds). I am sure there will be more effect at outragous speeds, but how frequenly do we drive that fast.

right, that's why i was thinking of cutting a large hole where the evoms cone filter is, allowing the most amount of air to the filter. if the intake port on the gt3 lid lines up with the newly cut hole then even better. i may also enclose the other end (oem side) to to prevent a pressure drop and hopefully promotes a pressure increase. not expecting even 1 psi but what i am hoping for is the least amount of vacuum. i was only showing those pics because they supposedly promote ram air. thx, i'll hook up my scanner, after everything is installed, and do the same test. hey, what about the engine compartment fan switch diy

Connect a wire to the ground on the relay for the engine compartment fan. This is located behind the driver's seat under the carpet. You get to it by removing a couple of screws holding the terminal box down. Route the wire to the front of the car (dash) via any route you choose. I ran mine along the left side of the interior and under the bottom door trim and up through the fuse box area and then accross to the center console. Decide on what you want to use for a switch, All you need is an open/close switch where the wire from the relay will go to one side and the other side will be wired to a ground. You now have a way to turn the fan on manually. If you leave the switch on when you shut off the car, the fan will stop within a few seconds. The fan will continue to function normally if the engine compatment gets above 180F, regardess of the switch position. As you can see in the image below, I installed the switch in the batwing. If I am bored ths winter, I may get a Porsche switch and installed it in the dash.

I'm hearing a lot about the "claimed" gains of this and that...and the X51 package for the 3.6 (rediculously overpriced for only a 25-30hp gain) but has anyone simply dynoed a before and after run for intake/headers/exhaust/giac for a 996 !? (whether it be a 3.4 or 3.6) I have yet to see ANY real before and after dynoes to prove "gains" ** ...anyone ??

Like i said, we are setting up our AWD Mustang dyno right now. i will do it on my car. if anyone in AZ wants free dyno tests for before and after PM me. i will solve this discussion with simple facts.

Who makes that intake and decklid Karlooz.

...thank you, please do** I'm very interested in the fabspeed I/H/E set-up.

I believe the X-51 powered cars will perform to full potential once beyond 8,000 miles... a tech at the dealership told me these engines need some mileage to break in... but then they "fly" I'd wait till I racked on some mileage until I did a dyno. cheers Peter

i think it's pricey porsche motorsport. really nice

you did see my "after" dyno sheet on page 1 right? that's intake, giac flash, headers and mufflers. click on my sig for more. but sorry, no before dyno runs

Yeah, thanks for the dyno runs you did make, i think its definitely making improvements on your car at ~280rwhp on a 3.4...but it would have been so much more help to see what ur car was baselining at

Speaking of dyno, isn't there something in the owners manual that state it is NOT a recommended practise ?

Maybe on the older *aircooled* models (for the obvious reasons) but i don't see how 996's would have ANY issues on a dyno....

So would you go with the 'Fresh' air intake instead of the V-flow? This seems like a better design maybe since the V-flow is "choked" off a little. I guess I'll be the guinea pig and get mine baselined first. :| 80 bucks each run

I currently have a fabspeed airbox kit and bmc1 filter, I have a friend who wants to give me his evo box, I might be tempted to try a dyno session stock vs fabspeed vs evo, I'll think about it.