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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHI bought it -- I drove it -- I crashed it
Reported or suspected cause
obvious choice
Reported cause
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Reported cause
Since I don't go to the track nearly as much it was the obvious choice when I searched for a GT3 replacement.
Leading evidence: 'obvious choice' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'obvious choice' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check by the end of next week' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I think your best bet is to have the car repaired, keep it a few years, enjoy it.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
Interestingly, he also has a 997 customer that blew an engine - it was replaced under warranty by Porsche.
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Suspected cause
Snow and ice are probably the worst conditions to have a problem in.
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Suggestion
I�ll also echo the opinion of others that feel this car will be totaled based on repair costs, and did a quick check of comparable values of �04 Targas listed on cars(dot)com.
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Suggestion
I know that your heart tells you that you would like to keep the car and have it repaired, but ultimately, you will have a seriously-damaged, repaired 996.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I know that a repaired car has a significantly reduced value, but I doubt that they are going to pay me anywhere near the $31.5 that I paid for the car.
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Suggestion
I�ll also echo the opinion of others that feel this car will be totaled based on repair costs, and did a quick check of comparable values of �04 Targas listed on cars(dot)com.
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Suggestion · Original poster
The body shop said that even though he would like to do the work, that these cars are never the same after a repair - no matter what any body shop says.
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262 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
In retrospect, the tread depth was not adequate for snow, but the lack of traction control and poor decisioon making didn't help.
I have had my 996 for about 4 months now, and have enjoyed every minute of it. Got snow tires to take me through the winter, but from testing the car in parking lots, and around the neighborhood, I know that the car is a bit squirrely in the snow. So, I have tried to be careful, and not do anything too hazardous to my health.
Last night we had about 4 inches of snow. Had no problems getting out of the driveway (I planned on shoveling later) and headed to the southwest burbs for a meeting. The meeting went well, and I was heading home, about 5 miles from the house when I came upon a team of snow plows. The tollway was 4 lanes wide, and the trucks were running on the right hand three lanes. Cars were slipping by on the left, and I decided that rather than wait and follow them at 40 mph till my exit several miles ahead, I would drive past them.
I pulled into the left hand lane, and started to make my approach. As I got even with the plows, my rear tires hit the bunch of slush that they were pushing into the left lane. I felt the tires start to slip, and backed off the gas. The car started to fishtail a bit, and I brought it under control. Then, as I moved forward, I started to fishtail again.
I looked over to my left to see a semi bearing down on me. He hit me on the left front wheel, and spun my car around in the other direction. I got slingshot across four lanes of traffic to come to rest, nearly as if I had parked it, on the right hand shoulder, facing in the right direction, just off the highway.
I was really lucky on a number of counts. The semi hit my front fender. If he had hit my driver's door, I would probably have been in sad shape. As I was bounced across the traffic lanes, there were no cars or trucks in my way, I had (not to try to characterize this as anything but scary) clear sailing across to the shoulder.
I took a number of pictures of the car before the tow truck came. Then I went to a body shop that had done work for me on my '73. He thought it would be about $12K in repairs (yes I have insurance - $500 deductible.) Said that it would take about 5 weeks to get it done.
So, here are some pictures of the damage.
And the truck didn't get away scot free. He ended up being towed as well. Those Porsches are tough little cars!!
Then, as we were waiting for the trooper to finish the paperwork, the truck driver came up to me with a card he wanted me to sign. It said, "The truck driver had nothing to do with the accident." (or something like that) Uhhh, no thanks, I won't sign it. Why? Because the truck driver hit ME. He was at fault.
For right now, I have some bruised ribs on the left hand side. It will probably take a good 4 weeks for them to heal. Unfortunately, I have had experience with bruised ribs like this. But, that's the least of my problems. I am not complaining. Wifey gave me a big I Told You So!!
Thanks, babe, I appreciate the comforting words.
larry
Wow, very sad to hear this, at least you got away with only bruised ribs.
Now you can put in clears instead of pumpkins, and get Litronics headlights.
I'd had my scary moments in roads leading to skifield in my 5 series. Since then I always take shuttles going to and from skifields.
Glad you're OK. Sorta glad my car is in the shop with this ****ty weather...I won't be tempted to get it out in this crap.
Is that an Autozone trailer? Ironic.
I hope you have a speedy recovery, sorry to hear about your car.
Sorry to hear about your incident. Very glad to see you are lucky on that one.
Weird that the car lost control. I assume the snow plow must be building all kind of snow accumulation along them when they drive.
That is why they built the C4 I assume.
I bet it will drive even faster when it fixed...if you install clear side markers
Wow, what a story, the impact of which I think was enhanced by the fact that I had the Tron soundtrack playing in the background as I read it. Lots of ominous themes in this musical score that really fit the situation.
Glad you're in relatively good shape. It seems things could have been much worse.
Good to hear that you are ok! After all it's all that counts
The damage on the car looks much more expensive than 12k?
It seem's that the whole frame is bent.
Glad to hear your OK Larry. Good luck with sorting it all out. Who knows they may write it off and then you'd have the option to buy it back and part it.
Oh my, what a story. Thankfully you weren't hurt worse, that semi certainly could have dealt out more damage. Too bad about your Porsche, hope it all works out for you.
Larry, sorry to hear about the accident. I'm glad you are OK. It could have been a lot worse. 12K for repairs? I am guessing your insurance company might total it.
Larry, that pains me to see. Glad you are OK. I got out of town this week before the crazy stuff started.
Who are you planning to use for the repair? I hear great stuff about a guy in Lake Bluff. Ultimate Paint, Joe Young, [phone removed] , the Porsche Exchange uses them, and other high end car companies up on the north shore. Good luck.
Ouch! Very glad you are here to talk about it. Did your airbags blow? I'm thinking your car is a goner....no way is that a 12K repair. My Aero decklid repair job is $8200 (for a decklid?).
I'm sorry but I think you put yourself in a 'not so good situation' with 'not so good results'.
$12K? This is a write down once they get under it and do measurments...
Unless you go for a 60 series profile and drive around in 2 grand in highgear - the C2 are a handfull in iceing conditions. It's the sudden grip/no grip/grip/no grip that catches out so many people. Snow pack lanes are fine - even deep snow, but the slightly bare slushy lanes that are salted and 'almost' melted is the worst conditions you can drive these cars in. C4's are a little better but ice can still catch them out as well and they just tend to be further off the road and deeper into the snow bank then the C2's get! Glad your ok it could have been way worse. And good move on walking away from the trucker and his request to sign his piece of paper. That little piece of paper would have showed up in court and your lawyer would be mouthing the word's 'why...' to you.
Wow, Thankfully, Larry you are okay, as that is most imporant, period. As for the car, it can and will be fixed........ I gotta say seeing those pix, I get a real sinking feeling in my stomach, though.
Larry, sorry about the accident, but definitely glad to hear you're ok.
After hearing your account of the accident, I've always been told that you need to have your vehicle under control at all times, especially when you hit another vehicle. It seems to me that the trucker should have seen what was happening ahead with your pcar and slowed down rather than plow into you. He sure had a lot of audacity to ask you to sign his release. Sure, you spun out going at a relatively slow speed, but rather than slow down, sounds like the truck decided to take you out. Good luck. Hope it goes in your favor! We're pulling for you.
SamT.
Denver
Good to see you are okay. I wouldn't have signed his little card either, but in the end, it is your fault. You spun in front of him while passing snow plows on the highway. I doubt you'll find that this ends up being a no-fault.
I'm sure the trucker didn't decide to "take you out" - his livelihood depends on being able to drive, not randomly punishing Porsche drivers for losing control.
Larry... glad you are alive and kickin. +1 on trying to total it instead of fixing, she'll never fully recover. Good move on not signing anything and.... I cant believe you took out the semi.... Best of Luck.
What???
This is one of the problems out on the road.
Auto drivers seem to have no idea of the dynamics of driving an 80,000 lb. truck.
THEY DO NOT STOP QUIKLY !!!!! Even on snowy icy roads!
Phil
Glad you are OK Larry, since that wont buff out it's probably totalled... good time of year to buy another one!
I have cracked/bruised ribs in the past... hurts like a *****! Feel better.
So, basically, truck driver was probably driving too fast for the road conditions as well. My point is I don't think he's above reproach on this accident. Not being able to stop your vehicle fast enough to avoid hitting someone else isn't an acceptable answer to me. It this were the case, why do companies spend so much time teaching defensive driving? Otherwise, it would be total chaos.
Waiting two years to get back into a Porsche when there are hundreds available for rock bottom prices right now? Worst. Idea. Ever.
That looks like more than $12k to me, too.
+1
Depending on how the law looks at the situation, the truck driver may have made a mistake, too. Remember, you're expected to be able to stop your vehicle in time regardless of what happens in front of you.
Also, Larry, does your car have PSM?
looks like its totaled to me. glad to hear you walked away unharmed. I cant say I would ever take my c2 for a high speed drive in the snow even on snows...
Glad you are OK. This is why we have insurance. Cars, not even Porsches, really matter when the chips are down.
That document the trucker had reminded me of the "Keep Back 200 feet" signs on some dump trucks. Just simply BS. Nothing against professional truck drivers, who are probably far safer on the road than any of us, but the companies they work for will try anything to avoid liability. Never sign nothing!
Glad to hear you're ok.
I've driven in chicago and indy winters for many years with RWD cars on snow tires, but I too had one accident in my s2000 a few yrs ago.
In retrospect, the tread depth was not adequate for snow, but the lack of traction control and poor decisioon making didn't help.
Do you have PSM? Were your snow tires new?
Really sorry for your accident!
That is an awful big truck and it could have been worse and you are right these 996's are tough cars!!
Now I don't feel so bad about keeping mine in hibernation all winter.
Good luck with repairs!
Pete
From the looks of that car the only way it could be "properly fixed would be to replace the front clip, and they will total the car before they do this, which is to your advantage really. With that sort of damage, even if fixed correctly the car will never be the same and the value will be greatly diminished if you ever try to sell it.
So the truck driver tried to get you to sign a card acknowledging your fault, what a scam that is. As a driver you are supposed to keep adequate space between your vehicle and any vehicles in front of it to allow you to avoid any accidents. The trucker failed to do this (although in his defense probably everyone on the road was too close in those conditions). If a driver slams on his brakes in front of you and you run into them it is your fault, not the other guys. In the long run I bet that your insurance company ends up collecting from the trucker's insurance company.
Wow, terrible news.. Glad you escaped with only bruises. Looks like a hell of a hit from the photos... I seriously doubt $12K will cover that repair. I would guess that car is or should be a total loss. Again, glad you walked away safely and be careful out there....
I'm glad you are O.K. but you have to admit, not the best series of decision-making....
1. There was 4" of snow already on the ground and you took the Porsche out anyway? (was this your only option for transportation? Could the meeting have been postponed or could you have called into the meeting?).
2. I assume the forecast was for continued snow (looks like it was still snowing at the time of the accident) and you still decided to take the chance?
3. Instead of staying more safely behind the snow plows for a few exits you decide to increase your speed, move into an unplowed lane and (try) to pass them???
Good luck with the outcome....
I disagree, FLY.
He was using a part of the road, as was the truck, and as were likely hundreds of others of motorists that came upon those plows. He wasn't passing on the shoulder. It doesn't seem as though there's anything to prove that the accident was related to the plows. That slush would have been there with or without the plows, as they move the snow from left to right. It was a weather related crash, but fault is on the trucker who, by law, was following too closely.
If not for the truck, Larry might have spun in his own lane, coming to a stop sideways or backwards, suffering no damage.
That all said, it sucks to be in the trucker's place.
Don't let the police report or insurance company pin it on you. **** happens. That's why insurance companies exist and they make plenty of money.
Good luck. Glad you're okay.
Sorry to hear about your accident... but happy to hear you weren't seriously injured. When I first read your post about a wreck with a semi, I actually expected the photos of the car to look worse. It is a tough little car! Good luck with the repairs.
ouch! glad your ok, but the car is no more.. that is beyond reasonable repair. :-(
buy it back from ins, get another 996, and have a spare everything from the windshield back. :-)
Sorry to hear. Glad you are OK.
On a side note: You may want to remove/edit your account of the details of accident until everything has been settled. It could be used by other parties (truck driver, insurance, etc.).
Good luck with repairs.
FM
Guys:
Thanks for the supporting comments. I really feel that I came out of this lucky. Considering the size, weight of the truck, the fact that there was other traffic on the road, and when the truck hit me he spun me around and I didn't get tagged by any other cars on my way back across the traffic. Saying my prayers of thanks.
I am running 17" Pirelli SnoSport 240's. The tires are nearly new. I think that they have one winter season on them. The street was slushy, no standing snow on it. You know how snow/slush builds up between the tracks of tires? I think that the plow was pushing that across the open lane - the one I was trying to drive on.
I waver between wanting them to fix it and wanting them to total it. I know that a repaired car has a significantly reduced value, but I doubt that they are going to pay me anywhere near the $31.5 that I paid for the car. That's the rub. Fix the car, and hope that the shop does the job right, or hope that they total it, and look for something to match the paid claim.
The thing that is going for a repair is that there was no interior damage. The airbags didn't deploy. Otherwise, I would agree that the car is a total. I'll have to wait a few days to see what the adjuster says. It's in his hands, not mine.
I am planning on taking the car to Europa Imports in Winnetka. The owner has worked on Porsches since the mid 70's, and they are a quality shop. They did work on my '73 Targa.
I'll keep you guys posted. In the meantime, wifey didn't want me to buy the car, so she feels totally vindicated now.
larry
ouch wifey is gonna a pain from now on...'remember what I told you with the porsche' here and there LOL
Man that will be more painfull than the accident ! might have to total the wife as well
LOL
My points are not about fault...more about decision-making that leads to a bad situation...I'm just perplexed that Larry got into this situation in the first place...still scratching my head as to "why take the chances"...my car feels a little squirrelly in the wet so if the roads are really wet or the forecast is for rain it stays home...It would not even make it out of my subdivision with any accumulation of snow...
Overall I feel sorry for Larry and frustrated that this happened...
Glad you're OK. Sounds like you learned from your experience and that's important. You knew going in, it was a gamble, but the odds beat you unfortunately.
I think your best bet is to have the car repaired, keep it a few years, enjoy it. When time comes to sell, the value across the board will have dropped to a point where a previous repair will not cost you significantly.
Geez, what a mess! Glad you are OK Larry.
If the insurance company wants to total the car (hope so, that will never be the same if fixed), make sure to fight their first low-ball offer, and show them similar cars with similar options to get them to increase the offer. A little leg work goes a long way as far as final offers go!
Sheesh Larry, I'm glad you're OK!! Yikes! Cars can be replaced, but you can't. Keep us posted with the repairs.
TOO FUNNY!!! I love it!! That dude is right on the money too. I'm fortunate enough to have a wife who pretty much does what he says, except for getting deep inside the engine with me. She's supper supportive; it makes all the difference.
Glad to hear that you are okay.
Take it easy on those ribs- I have broken, cracked or bruised several over the years and the more you take it easy at first, the less painful it will be...
I am with the others that say that the car is probably totaled. I know that your heart tells you that you would like to keep the car and have it repaired, but ultimately, you will have a seriously-damaged, repaired 996. At that level of damage, they are never the same -rattles and all sorts of other issues.
Hopefully, they will total it and give you enough to get another just like it.
Take care!
Cheers,
Tom
Either fortunately or unfortunately, the decision to total the car is not mine, but the insurance company's. I am going to pay the price on so many levels here. BTW, wifey and I decided to get a divorce about 6 months ago. Couldn't help myself, so I bought the Porsche. She has been very unsympathetic about anything since. She won't even sit in the car, and at every juncture complains about how much the car is costing. So . . . . she considers this vindication - she was right all along, the Porsche is a problem that will sink me.
There is likely no way of knowing upfront what the insurance company will offer me for the car until they decide to total it - then they will give me a price. I have negotiated with insurance companies in the past - unfortunately - on a total. They are pretty unmovable (in my experience.) But, I will have to face that one when it comes. Right now, anticipating that they will offer me something in the mid-20's, I am all over getting it fixed, and driving it for the next 3 years or so, till I can afford to sell this one - or trade it in - and get a different 996, or by that time - a 997.
In the meantime, the ribs are sore, but not too bad. It is mostly my feelings that have been hurt. I learned how to drive in the snow over 40 years ago, and have fought more than one car out of a slide/fishtail/slippery braking over the years. Right now, the insurance company is saying that they won't get a chance to look at the car and have an estimate on the repairs till beginning of next week. (sigh) won't have any answers till then.
To be honest, I am just glad that I came through this with only sore ribs. This could have been disastrous on so many different levels.
larry
To those that question the decision to take the Porsche out in the snow, I'd say rubbish. Larry had an accident and they do occasionally happen even when piloting an SUV with snow tires down the road.
I've used my C2 as a daily driver through every Chicago winter up until I moved last December. With snow tires the 996 C2 is eminently capable in the snow (yes even fairly deep snow) and served me very well in that capacity.
In addition to utility my C2 was an absolute blast to pilot in the snow. In fact if it did snow, I'd usually find an excuse to get it out on the road rather than keep it in the garage.
Just my $0.02
I'm clearly with Ray on this. My comments weren't meant to be inciteful, but supportive.
We could always err on the side of caution. We could all own Volvos. Driving a well tuned, properly equiped vehicle, even in adverse conditions, is not taking on an unreasonable risk, IMO. Accidents happen even when no risk is apparent.
Your ribs hurt. No point in beating yourself up further!
I think part of this also comes down to what conditions you are confortable driving in. In Chicago driving in wintery conditions is viewed by most as no big deal. In North Carolina, people are absolutely terrified to travel with a hint of snow on the ground. Case in point, we got 4" of snow in Charlotte on Sunday night. Stores were mobbed for bread and milk on Saturday and many offices and schools are still closed today despite the fact that most of the roads are now bone dry. Fear is debilitating for some I guess.
In my experience a 4wd SUV is great for pulling away from snowy stoplights, but I have yet to see the the big SUV that can out brake, out corner, or out manuver my C2 on snowtires in average snow conditions. Even off the line with the weight of the motor out behind the rear axle my 911 can accelerate hard in the snow.
Nope, my car doesn't have PSM. This is really a "southern" car. 2 wheel drive, no LSD, no PSM. You know, whenever you
take a car on the road there is a 4-way equation to each trip. Car, driver, weather (road) conditions, other drivers. I think that we subconsciously calibrate our driving to those external conditions.
Larry
When I totaled my MINI Cooper, my insurance company went round and round on whether or not they would total it.
I kept telling them that the bend in the unibody was so great that they would never get the panoramic roof to fit after the car was straightened. They didn't believe it, so they had the shop pull the car straight. 5 sunroof assemblies later (original, 2 used and 2 new), the body shop declared that they could not make one fit and that the car should be totaled.
I would have similar concerns about a straightened Targa.
Larry, let me say again, I am very glad you are okay.
I have a couple of thoughts just so maybe someone else can avoid the same situation. I just reread your post about the circumstances. Did you "ease" off the gas very gradually, or back off quickly?
The old 911 mantra, "Don't lift," comes to mind. I have found in my 22+ year of various 911 ownership, (and I am no expert, by any stretch of the imagination) that lifting off the throttle quickly, in nearly any situation with a 911 and compromised traction, can be disastrous. Gentle changes in throttle and steering into the slide is the ticket...
I think that I can envision what you described. The "whipsaw" effect towards the end made me think of the "don't lift" expression.
Anyway, with all the modern technologies that these cars have, it is easy to forget that the earlier 911s were famous for having finicky handling. It still is a 911 after all...
I will let the driving experts chime in here.
Regardless of the outcome, don't give another thought to what your wife says about your purchase. She no longer has any standing in that argument.
Be well.
These things happen so quickly, that it is nearly impossible to try to put together the "actual" events. After all, as the driver, you are in the "eye of the hurricane."
All in all, considering everything, (if it were even possible) I am satisfied with the outcome. The car will either be repaired or totaled, and in 4 - 5 weeks, my ribs will heal. I am more than a bit humbled by the event - justly so - and as I have said to my kids and wife when they all had horrendous accidents (wife rolled a 2 year old Volvo down an embankment at 70 MPH in western Nebraska, with two kids strapped in the back) - the most important thing is that no one was hurt. Honestly, I feel more than a bit blessed - someone was watching over me.
Time for some extra prayers at services this weekend.
larry
+1, Ray. The vehicles I have available for me to drive in the winter are listed in my sig. The 996 on snows is my default choice when the weather gets bad. A 996 on winter tires is not a poor choice to drive in winter conditions.
Hmm, I don't know that I'd agree with the statements in bold. I've negotiated several totaled vehicles and the adjusters would definitely like you to believe that it's non-negotiable. You just have to know the right words to say, but the first phrase to remember is "diminished value". When you get to the point of dealing with numbers, let us know--there are plenty of people here that know the ins and outs and can help you.
Once again, glad you're OK...
Are you sure you didn't hit your head in the crash? You want to fix this mangled pile of metal? Lets just say the insurance pays to get the car fixed, and 3 months down the road your IMS bearing fails, then what? Are you going to be able to afford to put a new engine in there? No one is going to buy a rolling chassis that's been a wreck this bad.
It is your choice whether or not you settle with the insurance company, they're going to give you an offer and try and put you in a high pressure environment to take their first offer. This is where you get to tell them;
"I appreciate the offer, but to be honest with you I can't seem to find a car in the entire United States that matches the condition and options of my car prior to the accident under $XX,XXX, perhaps you'd have better luck in finding one. For now I have found these 3 cars link, link, link that are comparable to my car prior to the accident with a median price of XX,XXX which I believe would be a fair price to start negotiating from."
It hurts to see this thread. I was just looking at an older thread, and I saw one of your posts, and then read the signature. When I saw you had a Targa, I had to view some of your threads. Sure enough, I found the thread when you picked up your 996. I was like... This car is awesome.
It really hurt when I saw this thread, and even worse when it JUST happened.
Good luck with whatever happens, and I'm glad you're okay.
Hey Larry - glad to hear you're okay, and don't beat yourself up buddy! These accidents happen, and it's why we carry insurance. It's only a car, I can't believe that you walked from a Porsche vs. semitrailer accident! Again, you were LUCKY - don't forget that! That is the sign of a truly great car, when it "gives its life to save you" - and your car is dead, dude.
Take it from a guy who lives in the frozen Great White North, what other people have said is true. Living in ice-cold tundra-like Calgary (where you keep your snow tires on from October to the end of May), most of the big dramatic accidents you see in the winter involve people in big SUVs that think that 4-wheel-drive means 4-wheel-stop, or that their traction control can overcome the laws of physics and keep them on the road no matter what.
When you buy your next Porsche, just make sure it has awd and PSM! :-)
Chin up!
Hey sorry to hear about the weather slamming you a good one. At least you can tell your friends the 911 crash hurts more than the break up with the wife when friends say they feel for you having to go through settlement crap.
I give bad advise sometimes and hindsight isn't much good but.....I've found sometimes its good to keep the rears spinning up instead of letting them catch on and off. Snow and ice are probably the worst conditions to have a problem in. Just an uneven surface of the two can throw you out of control. Maintain constant unaltered throttle input helps maintain things sometimes so......6 of one and half a dozen of the other. We are only along for the ride sometimes.
Had a TIR truck pinch me real tight with no contact on the far left emergency lane of the autobahn one dark early morning with me figuring no way I'm letting off the throttle in the ice. I was driving a guy from Hawaii to Frankfurt and he just sat there not saying anything knowing the situation the truck just threw on us. You let off fast and or hit brakes and kiss the cruise goodbye skimming along on ice. Bitch swerved into me forcing me into the undriven on real bad stuff. Oh well, some have tried and some have died.
Play safe man and let me be the first to say congradulations on the devorse.
Sorry to hear that, but the good thing is that you are OK.
No "PSM", I thought that all facelift 996 2002 and after had that as standard..
I drove my last week in very icey conditions, and I can say, I would have been very unhappy to be without.. engine in the wrong place all all
Bah! crap happens with any car.... Life is damn short.... drive that 996 year round if you want too. Crash it, get another one. The majority of us are smart enough to insure them.
Years back I drove a 951 year round for 8 or 9 years, through snow, on ski trips...all over! never had an incident. Used to blast around all the SUV's and AWD cars on summer rubber struggling up hills
In actuality, there has been no judgment in that regard yet. The trooper on the scene didn't ticket me. He said that the insurance company would have to judge who was at fault. I showed him where the tire of the truck hit me on the left front wheel and the left front fender. I told him that it was obvious from those two marks that the truck hit me. It's a good thing that today's cell phones have such good cameras. That is what I used to take the pictures that I posted. So, I have some clear pictures of the damage to my car.
The trooper said that he'd leave it up to the insurance company. I am still waiting for my insurance company to call me back and take my "statement". Should be today. I'll keep you guys posted.
larry
Very sorry to hear about your misfortune and glad you're OK.
While there isn't much we (rennlist) can do for the car, I bet I speak for others when I say: the Porsche is
not
a "problem that will sink you". If anything, it has just helped you grow as a person.
Seriously, sometime things in life can be very tumultuous, but usually our vehicles provide a certain amount of consistency. Don't most of us own Porsches so that "consistent" part can be more enjoyable and rewarding?
With the trooper view of fault and the weather conditions I figure its just write it off as caused by ice conditions which isn't anybodys fault. Could of been avoided going slower but eh.
I just finished my conversation with my insurance company (21st Century), explaining to them the circumstances relating to the accident. I made it clear to the adjuster that the truck hit me, and sent me flying across 4 lanes of traffic. He did comment on the snowy/slippery conditions of the road. I told him that I had pictures that I had taken of my wheel and fender showing that he had struck me, in addition to a picture of the truck showing the bumper and fender damage to the cab.
He said that he would try to talk to the other driver, get a copy of the police report, and then he would make a determination of liability. He said that he should have that resolved by the 24th.
The adjuster is coming to look at my car on Monday. I am now waiting for two decisions - Total or repair? and Who is liable? I think that the fact that the truck hit me, and that it is clearly shown in the photos will help me. Think good thoughts.
larry
Van - thanks for the comments. I never considered myself a "car guy." I always enjoyed reading car magazines while I was younger, and enjoyed looking for Porsches during the 60's and 70's. But, I never did more than put air in my tires, oil in the engine, and gas in the tank.
But I always enjoyed driving, and taking long trips in the car. So, I came to really enjoy cars, and thereby my Porsches later in life. I hope to learn more about the car, and do a bit of wrenching on it over the coming years. But you're right. The car is consistent in performance, and provides me with consistent enjoyment. Now I have a 6 week hiatus while it is being repaired.
larry
Hi Lawrence -
Just curious, was the semi that hit you in the opposite lane of oncoming traffic? Was he in your lane, or did your fish-tailing put the nose of your car into his lane?
- Tim
Glad you're ok first and foremost.
I'm assuming you took out any incriminating material hence the edits on all your posts.
I thought I read it slightly different yesterday.
If it makes your feel any better, I saw a guy in a C4s during the morning commute who had summer only Michelins on. This guy definitely had some ***** considering the tires were pretty worn. Maybe the "4s" awd boosted his sense of security?
Hope you get things ironed out with the insurance company. Never dealt with 21st but I've had my fair share of bad run in's with other companies before.
His car was at fault not him
Using my imagination if the the police do not cite then there is no fault in law. The insurance guys just determine who pays using who was said to be at fault by police records. I am pretty sure his company pays for his and the truck. Although hehehe with the way insurance companies work a lot of times under the no fault system your company pays for fixing your car and the other guys company pays for fixing his car. Unless your company wants to argue it which is good if your weren't to blame.
I think its just going to be weather to blame and the insurance guys are happy to raise premiums AS USUAL. Hence they don;t care who's to blame anyway since even if you weren;t to blame they can raise your cost of insurance as far as I know.
Was the original post edited to remove this detail? I seem to recall you saying you lost control, crossed into oncoming traffic, and then saw a truck coming at you.
I never said that I lost control of the car, and I never crossed into oncoming traffic. I was on a divided highway. There were four lanes in each direction with a median barrier separating the two directions of traffic. The plows were in the three right hand lanes. I pulled into the left hand lane, along with a number of other cars, to pass them. The car started to fishtail, and I slowed and quite possibly moved between the left lane (4) and lane number 3. I looked over my shoulder to see the semi bearing down on me. He hit my left front tire and fender, and spun me around, across 4 lanes of traffic to the right hand shoulder.
That's what happened.
larry
LOL - I find it comical that your statement to the adjuster is to make it clear that the trucker hit you and sent you across 4 lanes of traffic. Not that you moved into the fast lane, were passing snow plows, lost control of your car, spun around, and ended up in front of a trucker who was doing nothing wrong until you appeared in front of him facing the wrong way on a snowy highway.
Looking back, if I was that trucker I probably would have tried to get you to sign that card too - sounds like he's more right than you are. The truck doesn't come anywhere near you if you had maintained control of your vehicle.
Sigh......this is why we all have exorbitant insurance rates - no one wants to admit fault.
Did your knee or ankles touch the ground? If so you were down and the instant replay will show it.
Anyway sounds like a truck in your flow of traffic behind you was going too fast to stop. Sounds like attempted homicide to me. He must of been day dreaming thinking of racing you or a porsche hater. Anyway, actually all I figure is its the weather and everybody is screwed like the trooper showed in his not giving a citation. Can't argue diddly against the trooper not giving you a ticket.
In america its the contactee that's considered to be at fault hitting anything in front of him. In Germany how ever going too slow and getting hit from cars behind on the autobahn leaves you instantly to blame especially if you are an american
really!
If you had been smoking the tires and going nuts then landed in front of the truck then probably you would be held at fault. It was snow and ice so.........both insurance companies are going to make extra money so don't figure they are looking for a blame unless they have your case on the bulletin board and everyones betting in a pool for how many points they screw with both of you for. With the extra amount of collissions I'm sure the insurance companies are loving this winter easpecially the NYC game of snow removal slow down. The points total is getting higher for the next storms betting pool by the way
Me and the national conspiracy federation have come up with a granular flour and cornstarch that looks just like salt spred by salt trucks. Next storm the ice will be on your tires like glue and we'll cash in on our investmments in insurance company's.
Again we are sorry to hear about the wreck.
It's not like anyone got hurt (thank goodness), so it's not like this is going to go to hardcore investigation / litigation (although hopefully that trucker doesn't watch too much late night TV with the ads for Cellino and Barnes). I really doubt that an insurance adjuster / cop / judge / attorney is going to read our humble little forum / BBS. In my icy part of the world, we have accidents like this all the time, and you are at fault if you lose control and go into the path of another vehicle. I note that Larry has not posted a definitive version of what happened (and nor should he), merely a loose summary of what occurred.
Good luck with the adjuster, Larry.
Lefty, I talked to the insurance adjuster for nearly a half hour. I told him exactly what happened, which is what I have written in this thread, including my encounter with the snow plows and my hitting the slush and starting to fishtail. Don't judge me, or accuse me of lying to my insurance company. You weren't there when I had the accident. You weren't there when I talked to the insurance company. You have no standing or knowledge to speak on this matter.
So, your post is full of inaccuracies, not the least of which is that your insurance rates go up because I had an accident. The best way of keeping your insurance rates from going up is to NOT DRIVE A CAR!!
larry
HOLY **** !!!
DUDE, sorry... I thought this was the thread from the kid that looped it on the onramp, I didnt even open it till just now
AWE MAN! SAD!!!
I am glad you seem to be OK, I will read more posts but WOW that sucks big ones...really sorry man, really sorry
I will bet it will be a 50/50 split. Both parties will be found 50% at fault. Which in your case I sure hope that truck doesn't have a lot of damage because you will be responsible for 50% of that too. I know it sucks but I think in this case it might have been better for you that you take care of yours and they take care of theirs. I am not sure how the loss of business for the truck will be handled.
Just my 2 cents.
If the police haven't charged anyone for the accident, it's very difficult to prove "fault" and each driver's insurance company will end up paying for the repairs to their insured vehicle. They won't add up the damage to both vehicles and split the bill down the middle.
Larry, I have learned that there are a few people out there on this board who just write things to **** others off or kick them when they are down. Just ignore them- if the guy above was credible and invested at all in giving and receiving good advice, after 150+ posts he would have become a member.
Keep the faith, brotha- we feel for you!
Hey Larry,
Best wishes for a speedy recovery. Well all is said an done, a car, even a 911, is just a bunch of glass plastic and metal. Glad that glass plastic & metal saved your a**
Jim
OP if i were you i would have this Thread Deleted ASAP... Insurance company will be all over this thread in no Time... Have this Deleated before its too Late. TRUST ME!
Or atleast Delete/Edit any of your Post containing Information regarding the Accident, Edit your Posts!
Sorry about the damage, Larry.
Glad you are OK.
I live in Montreal, a land of slush, snow and salt.
We put our precious cars away for the winter. Generally, the only 911's on the road are leased cars.
Guys who own them, store them.
Joe
I tried to tell you before but I'm not the type to push my views down anyone's throat. I hope you can get everything squared away with the Insurance and also good luck on your divorce.
https://rennlist.com/forums/7975813-post47.html
I'm sorry to hear you had this incident, though glad nobody was injured.
I think that the rear engine dynamics of the 911 are superior to most in inclement conditions, ground clearance notwithstanding. Hope you have it resolved soon. I'd imagine the guilt would be split 50/50 as well, but would be curious of the outcome if you don't mind sharing. Also, though I turn off PSM anytime I'm on track, it's an awesome "net" for precisely this situation, on power spin at medium speeds with a lack of traction to some but not all wheels.
My guess is that the insurance company will determine that Larry will have a degree of liability in a way that will increase his insurance rates.
The exact proportion (I suspect) won't make any difference. But it is in the company's interest to increase Larry's rates (for a while, anyway). Having worked in the insurance industry, they see everything as an exposure. They will set up a policy for non-renewal even if you have a series of accidents that aren't your fault--even where other people just run into you (they guess you're doing something to precipitate those accidents). The same logic applies in this case. In their minds, while it may have not been Larry's fault, he allowed himself to get into a position where events precipitated an accident. So, it will be chargable if possible...and create a documented event...so if it represents the beginning of a trend, they usher you out the door (or into a different method of determining rates).
I know John Gabler at Europa Motors and they do excellent work. But that is an extensive repair that you are looking at and will take a frame jig to get right. Not sure if they have one.
Then again, get this and a little JB Weld and maybe you are home free:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/02-04...Q5fAccessories
In all seriousness, a front clip like this might be the best answer. Just the cost of the misc fenders, bumpers, lights, radiators, etc. would be far more than the asking price.
Doug:
The car is at Europa Imports now. The adjuster was supposed to look at it today, and give me the estimate by the end of the day. Haven't heard anything yet, but should hear tomorrow. And, you're right. Europa doesn't have a frame jig, but Mike Gabler told me that there is a shop in the city that does all the body work for Loeber that has a frame setup, and he is close (personally) with them. He said that if I wanted, I could just have them do the work - with no hard feelings. But I like Mike, and he is personally in love with Porsches. Plus, he did some rust removal work on my 73 and the work was excellent. He said that he felt comfortable doing the work.
Depending on what the estimate says, the front clip you show might be the cheapest and quickest way to get the front end replaced. I'll talk to Mike about it tomorrow or Thursday.
thanks for the link to ebay.
larry
I vaguely remember when you picked this car up (the beautiful color combo stuck in my mind) and what $$$ you are into it.
I�ll also echo the opinion of others that feel this car will be totaled based on repair costs, and did a quick check of comparable values of �04 Targas listed on cars(dot)com.
It looks as though you may come out ahead financially and time invested, if you are offered a $$$ settlement to replace the car.
Good luck getting back on track and hopes for the best outcome.
http://www.cars.com/for-sale/searchr...ice&sf1Dir=ASC
I talked to the adjuster twice in the last few days. He is putting together some final numbers. He feels that he is going to end up totaling the car. I don't know what the number is yet, so I won't speculate. Interesting, he said that they are more likely to total the car because the salvage value of the car is high, and he expects that they will get a decent payout from the salvage auction.
I should know either late this afternoon, or tomorrow. In the meantime, I am poking around the internet, seeing what a low mileage 996 is selling for, so that I have some ammunition to use. The body shop said that even though he would like to do the work, that these cars are never the same after a repair - no matter what any body shop says. His feeling was that it was a better idea to total the car. Right now, as I said, things are running in that direction, but we'll see.
larry
The engine, of course, is where the real value will be in salvaging this car. It may turn out to be lucky that you were hit in the front leaving the rear of the car in perfect shape.
Just buy another one and keep track of how good the rubber is in the rear especially since it wears much faster than the front most are used to looking at.
Great news (if they total the car), hopefully you can get a fair settlement. Good idea to research the comp values, in case of a low offer.
Fixing a car is never as good as getting the money to buy one that wasn't smashed up!
I got the final word yesterday that they are going to total the car. Now it is just a matter of how much they are going to pay me. Supposedly, I will learn that today, and then we'll see if any negotiation is necessary. They said that it would be somewhere in the $35 - $40 area. That's a lot of real estate, but it at least gives me enough to know that I can replace the car reasonably.
They said that I'd find out today what the pay-out will be. And, today is the date that they are going to "assess liability" as well. So, the answers to two big questions today.
larry
That sounds like a very good settlement amount - you could get into a TT by kicking in a few more dollars. Not sure what you paid, but it looks like you'll be getting a decent payoff. Good luck.
This is going to end up like one of those organ transplant - meet the family members episodes you see on the daytime talk shows.
Think about it, larry's car gets totaled and sold to a salavage wholesaler, who sells it to a yard, who gets a call from a Fidelity Warranty service employee looking for a low mileage 02-03-04 996 engine for a customer who had a catastrophic failure.
Then engine gets shipped out to a P-car dealer (or pepboys!) and will be transplanted into the car in need of a new heart.
Wow, is it time to go home yet?
Spoke to the adjuster that works only on "totaled cars." Nice gal. She gave me a number for the car, before they loaded in any options. I am sending her the sticker on the car. I think that I will come out OK on this. It's really not an issue of how much I paid for the car initially compared to what they are settling for. It is how much it is going to cost me to get into a comparable car compared to what they are settling for.
Then I have all of those decisions to make - Cab, Coupe or Targa? Miles vs years? C4 vs C2 vs TT. Interesting mix. Likely I will be looking for a car that is NOT silver or black, though the thought of a 40th anniv car is tempting. I would love to have something in an unusual color, like Lapis Blue, or Speed Yellow. I will be doing some looking, and won't rush to judgment.
When we settle on a number, I will let you guys know. Also on the liability issue. Nothing final in that arena yet.
larry
The saying goes......."Every once in a while a blind hog stumbles upon an acorn."
You have found your acorn! Very glad it turned out well for you.....but not the preferred way to upgrade.
$35-$40???
hell I could turn that into a second job... buy em at $25, total them at $40
actually I have not followed this thread much but know its painful to deal with all the BS associated with an accident and in the end you look to have came out pretty much where you started.. unhurt and some money in your hand to buy another car
still wish it had not happened, but that's why it's called an accident right.
cheers
Stopped and took a look at the car on a whim. WOW! The damage is even worse than it looks in the pictures. Total is definitely the way to go on this car. Lets all just be glad that Larry came out OK from this hit. Cars can be repaired or replaced, but not always so for our health.
Yup, not too many people come out on the good side of an argument with a truck - any accident like that you can walk away from is a good one. I'm glad that this seems to be working out well.
Just got my offer from the insurance company. They are offering me $36,500 plus sales tax on a new transaction. The comps that they used were all Coupes, and they could only find 3 other cars to compare to - One was in Rockford. Their comps need to be all from dealers. The price that they have offered me is reasonable. I am confident that I can find a nice car for that. But, that being said, I have three issues:
1. They have ignored the fact that I spent $750 to put a clear bra on my car. They said that they would add that on at the end.
2. They have only added on $250 for the price differential between the Coupes that they found and my Targa. Considering that the Targa's are more unusual, and had a $7,400 add on at the time of purchase, I was hoping for a bit more of an upcharge.
3. They deducted $3,500 from each of the comps because a car at a dealer was in $3,500 better shape than a privately owned car.
On the purchase side - I need to move up my timeframe a bit, because their payment for sales tax is only good for 30 days. I'm not really sure what kind of a car I want. Now that I've been on this board for a while, and have driven my car for a few months, I am thinking . . . . . .
Found a 2003 Speed Yellow C4 Cab with 35K miles on it for $31K. There are a list of people that are interested in the car. I'm next on the list if the current guy doesn't get his deposit in during the next day or so. The car has sport seats, with backs painted yellow, yellow seat belts, Bose sound, Xenon lights, carbon/aluminum brake lever, park assist, logo in headrest. I just LOVE the color. Nothing subtle about that car!!!!
Also found a 40th anniv for $34K at a dealer. The car has 28K miles on it. In spite of the fact that I really don't want a silver car (it seems that half the Pcars for sale are silver or grey, and the other half are black) this is a LOT of car for the money. And there's something special about having a special edition car. And maybe I can squeeze the dealer for another thou or so.
Also found a 04 Cab in silver (no surprise there) with 21K miles, for $34,900 at a dealer - so I think that there's another thou or two in the price. Stability control, Xenon lights, full leather interior, windscreen.
And there are others, these just jumped out at me as low mileage, late model, price is right. Oh, and for added interest, found a 997 cab for sale for $39.9 with a tuned chip, fabspeed cats, headers and mufflers and a cold air intake. They are claiming 405 HP. It's out of my price range, but I'll bet that baby will suck you back into your seat. Kind of an odd color red.
I guess I won't have a hard time finding a car, I just need to figure out what I want. There are low mileage, well equipped cars out there. Which one is the question.
Your advice is welcomed. (as if I could stop you)
larry
Larry you are in a good spot...
... I would go with the most you can spend on top of what they are giving you.
Keep us up to date on the pending purchase.
Thank your lucky stars you are getting a settlement like this because you are looking a gift horse in the mouth.
.............I'm glad it turned out well and look forward to seeing the new ride.
I would contact the company that installed the clear bra and ask for your money back. It obvioulsy failed in protecting your car from being damaged. JK. Glad you're ok and it seems like the outcome is a favorable one.
40th Anniversary if you can find one. They are beautiful, unique, and really fast. You might even have enough money left over to buy the luggage on eBay!
Larry, sounds like a reasonable offer.
However, they
expect
you to go back and argue - right? They
expect
to have to pony up some more.
Hence they lowball.
Good offer, but go back for more!
Not quite a bluff. In the settlement package, they provided me with text from the Illinois State Code. The state probably mandates that this particular language and items are sent to the consumer.
The code also states that you CANNOT retain the totaled vehicle, and that deductions for wear and tear cannot exceed $500. Really, I don't think that I'll have a hard time finding a car in the next 30 days.
larry
I have poked around, looking for a turbo. I dunno. Like the additional power, but I have this love for a stick shift. To me, that's part of the fun of having a sports car. Even though the Tip has paddle shifters, I still like the feeling of having my hand on the joystick of the rocket. That alone might be enough to keep me from going to the Turbo side of the fence.
Don't think that I haven't considered this !!
larry
Larry
At that price you can get a nice C4S or maybe (if you can) move up to a 997 1st gen. I have seen a few under the $40k range.
Good luck on the hunt! I am sure you will be somehow excited shopping for a new car again
[QUOTE=larry47us;8242538]I have poked around, looking for a turbo. I dunno. Like the additional power, but I have this love for a stick shift. To me, that's part of the fun of having a sports car. Even though the Tip has paddle shifters, I still like the feeling of having my hand on the joystick of the rocket. That alone might be enough to keep me from going to the Turbo side of the fence.
Larry, you do know that you can get a manual shift turbo, right?
I was going to say the same thing....
The prices are insane at this place but this guy has a nice selection of low mileage turbos with manual trans.
Here is one example:
http://www.holtmotorsports.com/inventory.php?vin=03996t
That's a new one on me. I thought that Porsche only made Turbos in a Tip. Maybe it is just reinforced by the fact that I have only seen Turbo Tips for sale.
I will have to open my blinders a bit more. But I think that it is still going to be beyond my price range. But it will be something to look at.
Just found a 2007 997 Coupe with 35K miles for $39.9. I might be able to stretch to that point. There has been some warranty work on the car - wonder if I can find out the detail. Don't want to end up buying someone else's problems.
But it is something to look at.
larry
Just got a call from the adjuster at 21st Century Insurance. She agreed with me that the upgrade valuation that they gave me for the Targa ($250) wasn't enough. After considerable research, and discussions with her manager, they have agreed to total the car for:
$41,485
Now it's time to go car shopping.
Larry
No matter what, at $35-40k you are shopping at the top of the 996 quality and options list. I have seen 996 twin turbos go as low as $34k, but they had higher miles (60k+) and less than stellar maintenance histories. Any 997 in that range is probably going to be a bit dodgy as well.
My suggestion: A nice 02/03 C4S and an good extended warranty?
Something like this (its even in Illinois!)?
http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail...5&aff=national
Prices are ALL OVER THE PLACE in the 996 market - but that's a screaming deal!!!
Not sure you could expect to have sold your car on the open market for that price. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't have.
NOT the best way to get an upgrade but this has
really
worked out for you!
Just had a visit with my mechanic. He echos what you guys have been suggesting, that I get myself into a 996TT. He likes the Tip, saying that it is faster than the 6 speed, but he agrees with me that it is more fun to drive the stick - more active involvement in making the car work.
He commented that the TT doesn't fall victim to any of the IMS/RMS issues that crop up from time to time on the NA cars. So, he has a number of customers that have 2001 - 2003 TT's that are on the market, and he's going to get back to me in the next day or so with his options. Interestingly, he also has a 997 customer that blew an engine - it was replaced under warranty by Porsche. That car is for sale as well. Not sure of the year/mileage, but with a new Porsche engine, it's like a new car. He's going to check on that as well.
So, I am on the hunt. Should be able to find something in the next week or so. In the meantime, I have a packet of paperwork to fill out and send back to the insurance company.
larry
You're a lucky bastard. From a nightmare to a dream. Those that think a car is a depreciating asset need to insure their cars through the company you use apparently.
If you'll excuse me, my Porsche and I have a date with the front end of an 18 wheeler. Daddy needs a new toy.
Larry, just an FYI. The 997 turbo tip is quicker than the manual, however on the 996 turbo that's not the case (the 6 speed is quicker). IMHO, the 6 speed manual is the way to go on a 996TT.
+1
996TT Tip is not quicker than the 996TT manual. Ray is correct that this applies to the 997TT Tip vs. manual cars.
Having said that, I wouldn't kick a 996TT Tip out of my garage for leaking oil.
Re: the Turbo
Tip is slower than Manual in 996
PDK is faster than Manual in the 997
Key here is Tip and PDK are NOT the same thing.
Regardless, I would choose the Manual over the PDK.
So you're saying there is a 997 Turbo available in 3 gearboxes? (PDK, Tip, and Manual)
edit...nevermind. I just realized you are probably talking about the 07/08/09 Turbo that came in Tip and then the 10/11 that came in PDK
No. The newer 997TTs are only available with PDK or manual.
Before the intro. of PDK the 997TT was available with a Tip. These Tip 997TTs were quicker 0-60mph than the manual equipped cars. There are 997TT Tips out there, trust me.
A minor clarification Dell. The 997.1 turbo was offered with the Tiptronic transmission. The tip with that car (according to Porsche) was faster than the manual (this is the only Tip model Porsche produced in which the tip accelerated quicker than the manual the the best of my knowledge). The 997.2 turbo was offered with the PDK (the tip is no longer offered - good riddance IMHO) and again according to Porsche the PDK is quicker than the manual.
Can't. Sitting on the lift with no shoes
I get reminded every time I walk out into the garage. Wheels should be back from the powdercoater this week so I'll be back on the road by the weekend
ps. it's a manual
Dell,
I'm curious since you've owned both. If you didn't own any Porsche's and you won a raffle in which the prize was a free 2004 996 GT3 or a free 2004 996 TT, which would you take home? What do you like and dislike about each? (I've driven both, but I'm sure it's different having owned both).
TIA.....
gee guys, it's not hard to spend all of the money that the insurance company is giving me. It's just north of $41,000 - less my $500 deductible. The challenge is to spend the least amount possible. I got a great deal on my 996 Targa, and now I am searching for a great deal on a 996 TT. I am sure that I'll find one. There are a bunch of TT's out there with a 6 spd, now that I've started looking. I just need to be patient, and not be ashamed to offer a ridiculous amount for a car.
That being said, a 997TT is clearly out of the budget.
You KNOW that I'll keep you posted.
larry
Ray,
The 6GT3 is by far the greatest piece of machinery and most satisfying experience ever. Hand down, 1st place. I regret to this day selling my GT3. We had several great years together.
However, if you happen to have 2 small children like I do, then a roll bar is out of the question and a back seat is a must then get the big brother of the GT3....The Turbo. There is a reason it is Porsche's flagship 911. It's that's nice.
The Turbo is not nearly as much of a grand touring car as one would think. It's an absolute blast to drive both on street AND track. It's definitely more car than a GT3 but the GT3 is just special in so many ways. Since I don't go to the track nearly as much it was the obvious choice when I searched for a GT3 replacement. It's just as satisfying, if not more, to see how much fun your little ones are having riding in "Daddy's toobo"
Good news for you Larry. In that price range you have lots of enviable options for a new Porsche. Best of luck in your final choice whatever it is you choose.
Wow, that is just crazy! I thought your car was nice, but that is just outrageous! Lucky for you, get the cheque deposited as soon as you are can before someone wises up! I have never in my life heard of an insurance company totaling a car for so much more than it's worth - that even has to be more than you paid for it. But, congratulations Larry, fate is smiling on you.
First of all, excuse me, but I didn't lie. I told the insurance company exactly what happened. In addition to which, they had the report of the police department, the semi driver, and a witness who hung around to talk to the police.
Secondly, the events that led up to the accident had no impact on the valuation of the vehicle when they totaled it. I merely pointed out to them that the difference in base cost on the Targa was $7,500 more than a Coupe, and that if they were having a hard time finding comparables for a Porsche Coupe, try to find a comparable for a Targa. I never gave them a target settlement to get to, I merely gave them the methodology. They were unable to find any 2004 Targas for sale in the Chicago Market, so they extrapolated a replacement price from the base price differential.
I sleep very well at night, and will enjoy driving my Turbo, when I find and buy it. I'll be sure to show you pictures so that you can feel even more jealous.
And, by the way, I have seen and called on a number of 2001 996TT's selling in the $40k - $44K range, but I have been a day late and a dollar short. They are being scooped up very fast. I will need to look every day, and be prepared to pounce without much ado, if I want one.
larry
Nice job here. Do you often go around calling people you don't know liars? I'm sure your customers really love being insulted. Nice guy. Unless you were a witness I'd suggest you STFU.
When it comes to dealing with this kind of thing, there's no advantage to trying to incriminate yourself any more than necessary. The insurance company is paid to do this kind of thing and near as I can tell, the system worked as it should in this situation.
I can only assume that you meant to say something other that what it seems. If not, perhaps in the future you should not post comments under your company's name. I know this comment negatively effected my impression of you as a Rennlist sponsor.
Clarification - Craig meant the other guy!
When I was looking for my coupe last year I found very few cars in the midwest, compared to the large selection of cars in the Northeast, Florida, and Southern California. One suggestion: Try SearchTempest.com to aggregate Craiglist posts from across the country. You can start locally and then expand the distance. This is how I found my car in Boston.
Craig wasn't calling the OP a liar, he actually said the OP handled it well, and was refering to a couple of other instances where people have come on and lied through their teeth, on this and other boards.
You both miss read Craig's post.......
You're in a perfect negotiating position. You have a fixed amount, in hand, from your insurer. You don't need to feel that you are insulting a seller by offering less than asking, particularly in this case.
You: "Even though your 996tt is very fairly priced, all i can offer you is $41k because that's the value of the cheque in my hand"
Him: "I did a lot of research in pricing my 996tt and I know it is well priced, but no one has offered me my asking price yet (or it would be sold already), and since you have cash in your hand, right now, today, I guess I better accept your offer or I might never sell this thing..."
I always try to introduce a kind of 'third party' when negotiating. It gives a great poker face. In this case, you get to act like a neutral broker between the vendor and your insurer.
best of luck
Andy: Don't think that I didn't beat that approach to death. My mechanic told me this -
The secret is to find a solid turbo at a reasonable price. I have found a couple under $40K that have prior accident damage - it might be well repaired, but I'm not excited about it. Plus one car is grey/grey - very boring, and the other is white/grey&bright blue - the UGLIEST interior that I have EVER seen. And I found a 2003 in Speed Yellow (my favorite) with only 28K miles, but it's pricey. Right at $50K. So I would need to dig into my pocket for that one.
And, on top of that, there is the higher maintenance issue, and higher insurance costs (which I haven't explored yet.) So, I'm not sure which way to go. I'm still looking .
larry
I think you would need to be patient when you are buying a $40k turbo, nice ones at that price range do come up from time to time... the nicer ones are actually closer to the $50K mark... and there lots of those.
Ferdinand.
Well, there always is that conflict between wanting to take your time to find THE unique car that meets your needs at the right price, and the need for immediate gratification.
What is also driving me is that the insurance company is only going to pay the sales tax on the new car for 30 days. That's state law. Of course, they COULD do it later, if they wish, but why would they? So, I'm kind of under the gun to buy a car within the next 30 days.
They say that I should have my settlement check by the end of next week.
larry
If that is the case.... then, you should start a new thread "help me find my $40k turbo in 30 days or less".....
If you need someone to scope a TT in the northern NJ.... just let me know.
Indeed. Post the requirements and I'm sure everybody will be more than happy to help you spend your money
BTW - Suncoast has just listed one - Blue/Tan w/44K miles. No pictures yet.
I have talked to them today. They are supposed to be sending me pictures, but haven't yet. It might be a nice option. They certainly have indicated that they are willing to negotiate. The car was in an accident early in its career, but 2 years later it was sold by a Porsche dealer as a CPO car. Those are supposed to be accident free, so it must have been a minor deal.
I'm waiting for pictures.
larry
Talk about a fun time! You are almost forced into buying one of the fastest cars on the planet to save thousands in taxes! God bless the USA! Good luck- your mechanic gave you good advice. Makes me want a turbo!
I got an email message from my insurance company earlier in the week. They got the police report, and were going to make a decision on liability within a few days. To say that I was nervous about their decision was understatement. I mean, I had just convinced them to upgrade their valuation on the car, could I be so fortunate as to get this one on my side as well?
So this afternoon I called the adjuster. He said, "Yes, we got the police report, and after reading it, it just confirmed our viewpoint that the trucker was 100% liable for the accident. He was totally at fault." YEEEEESSSSSSSSS
not only that, but it means that when my insurance company finishes their subrogation of the claim, they are going to collect $500 from the other insurance company and send it to me to cover my deductible.
And that's the end of the story - Now, on to the Turbo that I found . . . . . . . check out the other thread.
larry
Hey Larry, don't forget you might be getting a little something something for your personal injury from the insurance of the truck company. You did sustain some broken ribs and I hope you had that checked out after the accident so that you have medical records on the accident. That will add a significant amount of $$ maybe a GT3 instead of a turbo...hmmmmm
Pete - no harm no foul. Wouldn't have wanted to see my insurance increase if I was found at fault and upgraded to a turbo. Time to empty the bank account!!!
larry
Larry, this is a little OT, but I've been thinking about it since you started the thread.
Looking at the photos showing the damage done by the 40 ton vehicle to your targa, and adding to this that you were able to walk away without any permanent damage to yourself really is a testament to the safety that's inherently built into the pcar. German engineering at its best! Truly amazing and definitely reassuring, although I realize sometimes it comes down to a "simple twist of fate"!
BTW, thanks for sharing this episode of your life with me and fellow RL'ers. I really looked forward to each new chapter as the story unfolded. I guess now we'll be hearing about all the track records with your "arrest me red" TT. Cheers!
I've read this thread from the beginning and have watched the opinions go back and forth with regard to fault in this accident, who was blind, who would be able to sleep at night, etc. In a previous life I spent 20 years investigating accidents. The bottom line is this...regardless of what Larry may or may not have been doing at the time of the crash - going straight, fishtailing, spinning, backing up - whatever - every driver is reponsible to control his own vehicle to avoid a collision. If Larry had spun out of control, not come in contact with another vehicle and slammed into the guardrail, he would have been at fault . This was not the case. What happened here was that Larry was fighting for control of his vehicle when a truck, approaching from behind at a greater speed, clipped Larry's car as he passed Larry. In effect, the truck driver failed to control his speed to avoid collision. If Larry and the truck were side by side when Larry lost control and he had hit the truck in the side, or - heaven forbid - gone under the truck's rear wheels, totally different story. Here, however, the truck driver had the opportunity to take evasive action to avoid Larry - however brief - and failed to do so, making contact with Larry's car. Trucker's fault. Blows for the trucker, but that's how it works.
Personally, my heart is broken. I'm a sucker for a dark green car.
Ivy:
Thanks for the comments. I got a call from my insurance company this afternoon. AutoZone is denying any responsibility for the accident. My adjuster called me to verify a few pieces of information, but he said that it is possible that this will end up going to arbitration. We'll have to see what happens, but I am certainly going to call the insurance company and put in another good word for myself.
In reality, you're right. If I had spun out and not hit anything, and no one else hit me, then I would have been able to put the car back in gear and continue driving down the road. That wasn't to be. All in all, I think that I was monstrously lucky to be in good health after an accident like that. The car, which was beautiful, is gone now, and was only a part - small part - of the equation.
larry
Nothing like riding into a sh!tstorm and coming out smelling like roses eh? If that's the way the system works, so be it.
I guess here's a case of "don't hate the player, hate the game."
Word to the wise about plows. When you see a staggered-side tandem of them, you're at a much bigger risk when passing. No duh, right? Well think about it; inside plow gathers up his slop and passes it on to #2 in the middle who hands his load off to #3 on the outside. Key here is #3 is slinging off an estimated 3x the amount normally gathered by one plow. Driving through that
moving
3x slop load is a bit dicey, as evidenced by Larry's slippy slide joy ride. Kinda like riding a wave of slop for an instant.
Well it's good you ended up mostly unharmed in the end. Oughta treat yourself to a veggieburger and tip your cap to the man upstairs each time you hop in the new hotrod. Also think about investing in some high strength underwear, in the event that the horseshoe residing up there tries to fall out! Plus i'm sure you need a new pair anyway...........
This is likely my last post on this thread. I received a letter from my insurance company. Their subrogation department was unable to get any collection from AutoZone. They stated that "the material facts of this loss are such that a recovery is not possible."
They suggested that if I wanted to pursue collection from AutoZone, I could do that, but their efforts were at an end.
I then called my adjuster to see if this decision had any impact on the assigned liability of the claim. He said, "No, we still view this accident as we had previously, that the truck was at fault, and therefore there is no liability assigned to you."
Certainly this made me happy. Will I try to collect something from AutoZone? I don't know. Maybe, but not this week. Too many other things to get caught up on. But, in any case, I came out well from this potentially horrific collision.
thanks to everyone who supported me during this process. To the others, well,
.
larry
Larry it is always a uphill battle with large corporations like AutoZone... I would have been very surprised if that went anywhere.
Best of luck with the new car
I'm a bit confused. Here in British Columbia Canada the government owns all of the automobile insurance. It does suck and it is expensive, but whatever is happening above doesn't normally happen.
Can someone explain for me the dumb Canadian please...
Larry crashed his car. His insurance company says it' is the other guys fault. The other guys insurance company (Autozone) says it's Larry's fault. This sounds like it would happen *all* the time.
Did anyone pay Larry?
Yes, in the USA, everyone gets the opportunity to buy their own insurance. The "quality" of the insurance is only important when you have an accident. It is then that the fairness of any settlement becomes important. In a case like mine, I have two choices, I can get my insurance to pay the claim, paying my deductible, and then waiting for my insurance company to "subrogate" or negotiate a settlement with the other insurance company, or I can file a claim with the other driver's insurance company, and wait for them to agree to pay for the claim.
In many cases, the insurance companies come to agreement on who is at fault, comparative negligence (my driver was 40% at fault, your driver was 60% at fault), who got a ticket from the police, and they settle on a division of the claim between the companies. My insurance premium is based on the number of "at fault" accidents I have had. In this case, since my car was totaled, a decision that I was at fault would have raised my insurance rates significantly.
In this case, since the companies couldn't agree on who was at fault, each of them pay for their customer's claims. So, my insurance company paid for the value of my wrecked Porsche, and their insurance company paid for the repair to the semi. So . . . Yes, I did get paid, but I needed to cough up for my deductible. Not a bad deal, considering.
larry
