42 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHBilstein PSS10s - q's
Reported or suspected cause
preload
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
Identified cause
0
Suspected cause
0
Reported fixes
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that report identifying a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Reported cause
I'll bet the issue is preload on your front sway bars caused by the OEM drop links.
Leading evidence: 'preload' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'preload' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Adjust on an alignment rack' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
A couple OEM parts are reused during the install and its important they are installed correctly; a couple of rubber seals and thrust bearings IIRC.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I installed PSS10s on my 2002 C2 996 along with GT3 sway bars front and rear (middle setting).
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I'm not sure how the indy modified them to make them fit, but they shouldn't work at all, unless the sway bar was installed upside down.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I have set the coilovers to full soft, full hard and mid setting - nothing seems to settle it down.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion · Original poster
Indy can't understand why it's reacting this way - only recommended changing the shock settings, which as I mentioned I have tried virtually ever combo, to no avail.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
42 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 1 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T133652Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
I installed PSS10s on my 2002 C2 996 along with GT3 sway bars front and rear (middle setting). Ride quality is much worse than stock. Lots of "porpoising" over bumps and pavement seams, and equally bad on the track.
I have set the coilovers to full soft, full hard and mid setting - nothing seems to settle it down. Any suggestions as to changing the set up to minimize the bouncing?
Everything I had read and heard about the PSS10s suggested they were much better than stock, firmer but still very compliant. That is what I was looking for, but haven't gotten anything close to that. Had a very high quality indy do the install.
Any thoughts? Thanks in advance.
Well that seems weird..... I have PSS10's on my 99' race car revalved to match 700/900 lb. springs and the last thing I have is any type of 'porpoising'. I run the sway bars 1-off full soft up front, and 1-off full stiff in the rear with the shocks always in the middle. What does the indy mechanic who installed them have to say?
[QUOTE=X51;7035964] Had a very high quality indy do the install.
QUOTE]
high end ? or race prep ? (big diff)
was the set up new or used?
tire sizes and age?
and finally do you know the ride height you are set at and the alignment numbers front and back.
post all you can and some answers will come out of it (or at least some ideas)
There is no way it should be bouncing around IMO - my changes were not nearly as complete as yours and mine rides like its on rails!
Indy can't understand why it's reacting this way - only recommended changing the shock settings, which as I mentioned I have tried virtually ever combo, to no avail. Indy works almost exclusively on Porsches, though some Ferraris.
Ride is far worse than stock. Right now wishing for my stock 996 springs and shocks again!
Set up is as follows: Ride height -25mm, -1.5 camber F with 1/16 total toe in, -1.9 camber R with 1/8 total toe in, stock camber plates, stock wheels, Pilot Sport N Spec Ribs 225/40/18, 285/30/18.
I will post a profile pic so you can see the height. A friend of mine has a 993 with the PSS9's on, lowered more than mine, with a more agressive alignment and it drives great.
Thanks for the comments so far. Any chance the PSS10's have a defect? All components are new.
Good lord there must be something wrong! I've taken my wife out to dinner with the PSS10s set at full soft (1 R and R) and she is quite happy. This is with TRG sway bars at mid-setting.
BTW - I'm really waiting for the next gen that go to 11 - we all know what that means!
PJorgen - my wife won't even ride in it. On 1 it's almost like a circus ride. I have it on 10 just trying to keep it "driveable".
Btw, does anyone have the creaking and popping associated with the mounts not rotating with the coilovers on turn in? I get that all the time as well as over bumps. I've read there are GT3 mounts you can buy that cures the noise.
Wow, that's a mystery. I did not mention it, but I have PSS10s too and found the ride to be a lot better than my stock. (However, I do not know if my stock shocks were worn or not.) My ride height was dropped more than 25mm. My indy did not think he could go -1.5 in the front with PSS10s, but I am not an expert.
I can't be 100% sure that one of the bars isn't upside down, but based upon being underneath it and checking it out, they look like they fit properly (same fit as stock bars before). The indy has done a lot of these, but obviously mistakes happen. Drop links are stock C2 996, but machined to fit the GT3 front bar. What problems would that cause? Wouldn't the "bouncing" still be related to the shocks / springs?
I appreciate all the input. Also, can someone tell me how to post pics to a thread? Every time I try it it says my file upload failed.
PRELOAD!.... I'll bet the issue is preload on your front sway bars caused by the OEM drop links. With the GT3 sway bars you should be using adjustable drop links like TRG's or Tarret's. The stock links are probably too short and therefore preloaded. They should be initially installed and adjusted on an alignment rack. You could test your self by jacking up the front end equally on both sides and unbolting one side from the sway bar. It should pull out easily and have adequate length to go back into any of the 5 holes. If you have to lift or manipulate the sway bar, you're installing preload. You should also set the bar on full soft up front to start......
^^^ thats gotta be a helluva pre-load to do what x51 is describing. Im thinking, there is something wrong with his Pss10 that sneaked passed QC.... or maybe the springs are backwards (Rear springs in the front and vice versa).
Whether that's the case or not, I really suggest Tarett Engg stuff. I used to work with Ira before he started Tarett. In fact I just went to his shop to talk about some stuff at lunch today. Lol! Anyway, high quality stuff with all sorts of adjustability that really does work quite well. You might want to call him up and ask him what he thinks; he's a pretty knowledgeable dude.
Bilstein has pretty good quality control, I would be surprised if anything's wrong with the dampers. The front GT3 sway bar is quite a bit thicker than the OEM bar to begin with, and he's got it set in the middle which is too stiff for the car with anything but slicks. Preloading that front bar would only exasberate the difference between the bars and perhaps that's what he's experiencing. That's my $.02....
The shocks are on the right corners, but the drop links can certainly be investigated. As indicated in my prior post, they were machined from the stock ones to fit the GT3 bar. The indy didn't seem to think that should be any problem at all, but it's worth me checking out further.
I will report back after I'm able to get it in and looked at. Any other ideas are welcomed. Thanks for the ideas and feedback - much appreciated.
Took my buddy with the 993 for a ride tonight. He couldn't believe it. We pulled one of the front wheels and took a look at the drop link and bar. He agreed with the comments about the bar being too tight on middle, so we're going to try that on the softest setting first and then move to the drop link if we get no improvement with softening the bar.
peavynation - thanks for the contact at Tarett. I may be headed that direction if I get no relief after changing the bar setting. Everything else looked good upon inspection - front and rear.
The stock links are in fact too long. I'm not sure how the indy modified them to make them fit, but they shouldn't work at all, unless the sway bar was installed upside down. If that's the case you've eliminated a bunch of suspension travel which would cause the issue.
I doubt it's preload. It's really hard to get swaybar pre-load with an unadjustable link.
Could you pull the drop link out of that middle hole easily? That will tell you about preload. I also agree with RamVA that you could undo the front bar altogether and drive it 200 yds. Good suggestion....
The stock links WILL work with HR bar, but NOT with the GT3 bar. For the GT3 bar you really need the upgraded tarret collar or you can mount the drop link to the pinch bolt with the "old school" short link.
Click the paper clip, and a new window pops up. Browse to find your picture and click upload. But, make sure you are in the right size limits.
If you can't get it to work, email me pics and I will post them for you. My email is in your PM box.
-td
Here's a pic of what he's (himself?) describing above. This is similar to what the 996 cups come with. It's a shock collar to accomodate longer drop links which allow the steering rack to turn without stressing the drop links.
I sent td (user name "himself") a couple pics to post of my fabricated drop links and bar set up. I couldn't get the pics to upload. My wife calls my computer a dinosaur.
I like the shock collar - approx how much do those cost? Isolating the link from the steering rack makes a tremendous amount of sense. Turning my steering wheel to get pics showed me how much stress the link is experiencing under my current setup. Will drop the links and bar apart on Thursday and report back. Any other comments after pics are posted are appreciated.
Tarett's stuff is really top notch. I can't remember how much his collar and link setup is, but give him a ring. His name is Ira, he's a real good guy. Tell him Joel Peavy sent you.
www.tarett.com
His shop is just across the street from where I work; very convenient.
I'm not sure if this is the problem, but I *think* the the droplinks are swapped left-to-right. The upper bolts should pass through the lower shock collar going back to front (i.e. the nut on the forward side), and these are run backward. That's a clever way to make it work (if that's what was done). It may be causing some binding when the wheel travels, though, which would kill the ride. Like I said, I'm not sure it's the problem, but I think you are going to need adjustable links (there are lots of options).
I'm curious what your guy did to modify the links. They look different from mine (which are longer and slimmer), but my car is a Mk1/3.4.
Thanks to everyone for their insights and recommendations. Was able to get time today to look at it with the indy. Springs, shocks, bars, drop links - all were in proper order and installed as they should be. We moved the front bar to full soft and that made a significant difference.
Now I just need to get new front mounts to get rid of the popping / creaking noise that the stock mounts create with the Bilsteins. Thanks again for the help in troubleshooting. This is a great forum.
This has also been discussed. A couple OEM parts are reused during the install and its important they are installed correctly; a couple of rubber seals and thrust bearings IIRC. No creaking or popping after my PSS10 install last year.
Here is an excerpt from a post here:
There are some gurus of setup down Houston way. I know that Porsche and Indy shops are competent for most things, but when it goes bad, you really need a "somebody."
I second the thought to get another opinion.
-td
