51 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCH2002 cab, gut wrenching phone call... IMS?
Leading reported evidence
Check until monday
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The car is at the dealer, wont get checked until monday.
Leading evidence: 'Check until monday' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'air oil separator' (1 discussions; 0 report identifying it and 1 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check until monday' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that suspect a cause
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suspected cause
If there were no mechanical sounds and just smoke it is probably the AOS.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The one I saved this week would have been dead if it had been restarted as the #1 cylinder was filled with oil when we did our eval.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
The proactive, "yes there is a problem let me replace the damn thing" group.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Suggestion
If you replaced the seal when you upgraded the intermediate shaft bearing, it would add about thirty bucks to the bill.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
51 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T222516Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Ill admit in everyway that I talked my dad into getting his 2002 996 cab..
I warned him about IMS but told him that at 80k miles he was now in the clear, IE: the chances of IMS failure are less on higher milage cars.
So I get back from lunch and get this call.
He was driving about 25 mph, through a construction site when he noticed a GIANT white cloud comming out of the engine bay. Being where he was, there was not place to pull over, and he drove for another 30 seconds before turning off the motor...
The car is at the dealer, wont get checked until monday.
I feel really terrible about it...
I wasnt there so I dont know many more details yet, Ill find out on Monday.
-Sam
Unless there are some symptoms missing -- like check engine light, horrible noises, etc. -- a white cloud (of what?) alone is a conclusive indicator of an IMS failure.
My WAG? Coolant tank.
Sincerely,
Macster.
I've been thinking bout upgrading to a 996 c4s. The more research I do the more doubts I have bout the idea. Basically these cars are just ticking time bombs(no offense to any one). Because its not a matter of if its going to happen but when.
I must be missing something here, but why would anyone buy one of these cars(serious question, not retoricle)unless there is a warranty in place.
thanks
Let's even pretend for a minute that the odds of a failure are significant. The fear of this is already built into the price of a used 996, discounting it by thousands easily. You buy a nice running example, and you spend another few hundred bucks upgrading the bearing. Shazam! You have an extraordinary pedigreed sports car for thousands less than its notional value.
I can't imagine why anyone WOULDN'T buy one of these cars. Unless, of course, they were worried about what other scaredy cats and sh*t disturbers on the Internet were going to say about them.
Ticking time bomb?
Shhh! My 02 Boxster with just over 236K miles on its original engine (and clutch) might hear you and spill its engine internals all over the road next time I drive the car.
Sincerely,
Macster.
You don't need to "prevent" a rear main seal leak. It leaks or it doesn't. If you replaced the seal when you upgraded the intermediate shaft bearing, it would add about thirty bucks to the bill. If you had a leak and had to replace it and that was the only work you were doing, I think parts and labour ran me about $700 if memory serves.
Regarding the IMS upgrade cost, I think it greatly depends on your location and whether or not you have a Tip, and whether or not you're coupling it with a new clutch.
The cost of the IMS/RMS upgrade for me (C2 Tiptronic) was over $2k. I also had other parts upgraded at the same time and the total bill was $3,200. Most, if not all was probably unnecessary, but I gave in to the Internet fear mongering. I am much less worried about the engine going up in smoke. Whether that trust is justified or not remains to be seen. To me however, the peace of mind that came from the upgrade was well worth the price.
If you add 2 or 3 grand to the price of the cars (for the upgrades), they are still way under-priced as far as I'm concerned. One of the greatest bargains around.
Nobody knows, but the aftemarket part is vastly overbuilt compared to the OE piece. It's bound to last until the next clutch job at least, I figure. Mine has been happily whirring away in there since June 09.
Mechanical noises??? When the smoke was billowing were parts munching?? Did it sound like a can opener cutting the metal or 100 pennies in a coffee can being shaken??
If there were no mechanical sounds and just smoke it is probably the AOS.
Just this week we saved an engine from "false failure" when it had an AOS issue but everyone else believed it was blown up.. AOS failures can hydro-lock cylinders and cause subsequent failures, but thats not common. The one I saved this week would have been dead if it had been restarted as the #1 cylinder was filled with oil when we did our eval.
I did find that the IMS bearing seal was failing in that engine when I pulled the sump plate to look for other damage from the AOS.. I found pieces of the IMS bearing seal and the owner saved his engine by having us do the required work while the car was here.
Make sure you get a second opinion from an M96 specialist before you let anyone tell you the engine is compromised... Dealers would rather swap an engine as repair one.
Big white cloud be other things too, May have just broken a coolent hose. I think you are way jumping the gun here.. and by the way, you did gave him bad "all clear" advice.
Also, your dad is a big boy. He didnt have to buy the car. You warned him of the possible issue. and you "all clear" wasnt completly wrong. But wasnt real good either....
Absolutely.
This week, I actually had a "PPI" done on my own car, to figure out what I need to invest in it to keep it reliable for another 100,000km. One item the techs identified was that some of the coolant hoses were getting mushy. For some reason, it's not something I ever would have thought of. Also switching up to gear clamps for the hoses.
IMS failures can lead to big clouds of smoke.. When parts are sent through the engine block opening the oil sump up to spill onto exhaust system parts.. BUT in those cases the car usually spins in its own oil and slides backward off the road in a ball of flame.. That happened last week in Nevada according to the driver of the car that called us to find out more info.. Thats the most radical I had heard of thus far. He was OK and the car wasn't hurt badly.
Coolant can be a big cloud of white smoke as it is steaming, but the cloud is much thinner than oil smoke and smells like burning coolant rather than burning oil.
The main thing is the engine should not be fired up until it can be diagnosed correctly. That includes ensuring the IMS didn't fail and pulling the oil sump plate and filter for inspection to ensure no debris exists.
Its easy to test the AOS, if the intake is heavily contaminated with oil the AOS failed in most instances..
Maybe I'm misusing the term, but i can assure you that what's going on there is much more secure than what Porsche used. The OE clamps seem better suited to easy assembly than security.
So, the original poster never showed back up in this thread - and there's no evidence that this was an IMS failure. I'm going to consider this 2002 996 IMS Myth Busted #1.
I'm not trolling - I'm trying to find any threads where a user actually documented an IMS bearing failure in a stock 996. The top 4 threads on the subject don't show an ounce of evidence that there has ever been an IMS failure. This some serious business - likely to cost me $10K in transaction charges should I choose to sell my 996 because of the fear of an IMS failure and pick up a 996 turbo instead. I certainly seems like the whole IMS thing is blown wayyyy out of proportion and vendors that sell "solutions" that they can't guarantee in the first place.
I'd love to have documented from a Porsche dealership one single case of IMS failure where.
1.) Car was properly maintained
2.) Car had no power adders (no chips, nothing)
3.) Car had a 3.6 engine
I feel like I'm about to make a mistake by selling a car that is going to give me years and years of trouble-free service.
You will never see anything from Porsche because they wont admit to an issue.
My car has a 3.6, has been well maintained and has no chip. Yet my IMS was leaking when replaced.
Making inane comments and bringing back old threads sure comes off as trolling I assure you.
Rennlist (or any Forum) is not a good "barometer" for IMS failures.
If, and I stress if, you are not trolling, what do you hope to accomplish? Do you honestly think that your Mythbusting on this website will drive resale prices up $10k? The IMS failure is real, the only question is the frequency. There are plenty of threads dealing with that issue.
I hope you get the turbo. They are sweet. Just don't count on an extra $10k for the trade in no matter what you do.
"I feel like I'm about to make a mistake by selling a car that is going to give me years and years of trouble-free service. "
Then whats the problem? Don't sell it.
The IMS is a big cause of controversy and indigestion among the 996 world.
There are many ways that people deal..
The head in the sand, "there is no problem" "it's a one in a million shot Jerry, One in a MILLION!" group
The "I will deal with it when it happens" group
The "I am selling this damn thing cause I cant keep taking Nexium and Valium cause of a car" group
The proactive, "yes there is a problem let me replace the damn thing" group.
Take yer pick..
Just making sure I'm acting on valid data.
Here's some data. Momentum Porsche in Houston has never installed an upgrade bearing-I asked two eeks ago, but would do the work if I wanted. Houston is a car crazy city, and Momentum is a serious Porsch dealership. If there was a decently large group of owners doing the preventative replacement, why has such a large dealership never done one?
Some dealers will not do them, some dealers keep the Porsche party line that Vee haf no problem with zee motors!
There are some dealers that do them.
And to be fair I would bet that the majority of owners have an Indy mechanic do the work.
I am unsure how many owners are doing the upgrade, It would be interesting to see sales figures on the upgrade bearings. I am sure most "non hardcore enthusiast" 996 owners have no idea there is a problem anyways.
Matt is right. There has never been a documented failure that a delearship in Houston has admitted to. Therefore, it does not exist. I want $10k more for my 996.
I'm just suprised that a willing dealer would not have ever been asked to do the upgrade. Being a person that reserves the right to change my mind given a better set of evidence, I'll probably just get the Turbo - the tie to the GT1 and the modern performance characteristics of the car are really drawing me to it.
I beat you! I have a 97 with 170 MILES and that's nothing! I had a 1990 accord a few years back that went to 360 Kilometers. I sold it for a thousand dollars once I finished with it!
Yep sell a perfectly good car that would(most likely)give you years of service,plus spend 10k you don't have to,or buy the upgrade and do the work yourself for under $800. It's a real head scratcher that's for sure. Troll.
