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YOUR RESEARCHIs a 996 right for me?
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frankly over played in my opinion
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The IMS bearing issue is frankly over played in my opinion.
Leading evidence: 'frankly over played in my opinion' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'frankly over played in my opinion' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check sig if you want' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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I ran a 1978 911 for many years and it was a neat car to work on, but by 1978 it was already evident that new technology was being engineered into an old chassis.
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Pelican, suncoastparts.com, pcars.com, I've even used ECS tuning (Mostly Audi vendor)
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Suggestion
an early car can still cost as much to rebuild as replace but you end up with a better product if you used the LNE complete set-up 9which Chris's (we
Replace car itself become worthless....people are not willing
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Suggestion
the trouble is when you dont have a way to rebuild a motor (up until recently Porsche only offered replacement motors - not parts) If a $20k car has to have a $20k motor replaced the car itself become worthless....people are not willing to do it.
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I ran a 1978 911 for many years and it was a neat car to work on, but by 1978 it was already evident that new technology was being engineered into an old chassis.
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Suggestion
I like some days to get the tail way out on the onramp, others to zip as quick as I can thru the 3 turns (onranp has 3 turns) also getting to the FW ther are bumps I avoid, RR tracks that I blast upto and threashold brake then get back on it, I love to redline 2 and 3rd and sometimes get way up in fourth before I rapidly drop back to 60 (ish) I love to do little sprints were i wind it up, then back down without being noticed and somedays I get free runs on the cloverleaf turns where I test my driving and push it running right up to the jersey barrier on exit (without any cars around) i like to feel the turns even if they are mundane and slow...
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I like some days to get the tail way out on the onramp, others to zip as quick as I can thru the 3 turns (onranp has 3 turns) also getting to the FW ther are bumps I avoid, RR tracks that I blast upto and threashold brake then get back on it, I love to redline 2 and 3rd and sometimes get way up in fourth before I rapidly drop back to 60 (ish) I love to do little sprints were i wind it up, then back down without being noticed and somedays I get free runs on the cloverleaf turns where I test my driving and push it running right up to the jersey barrier on exit (without any cars around) i like to feel the turns even if they are mundane and slow...
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Suggestion · Original poster
I realize that any used car over 5 years old is going to need some attention to some degree, and thats usually what owners forget, that just because its NEW TO YOU doesn't mean its new!
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Hello Porsche owners..
I really like the forum you guys have here, tons of great posts! I've spent a little bit of time reading on here, and there is tons of great information!
So here is the scoop, I am thinking in the next couple of months of purchasing a "toy".. Ive decided I have around 25k or less to spend, and while I've considered many things, I think a 2 door sports car will do the ticket!!
My current ride is a 1994 Infiniti Q45, which I converted to 5 speed (I was the first of like 3-4 people that have done this, ever, to any year).. The old gal is rock solid reliable, and I will probably drive it until the wheels fall off, then replace the wheel bearings..
I drive about an hour each way to work, so having a car that handles highway driving good is definitely an important thing.. I am not really concerned about maintenance costs, however I am concerned about major mechanical meltdowns.. I of course do all of my own work, and if I become a porsche owner this would not change. I imagine that many times shops will assume you're loaded and take you to the cleaners, just because you own a porsche.
What I am really looking for is a car that, once well sorted, is pretty solid where all you are maintaining is wear parts, fluids and filters. I also don't want to feel guilty about putting a ton of miles on the car because it may not be known for going high miles reliably. I have a tendency to get emotionally attached to vehicles and not get rid of them..
Since my Q is getting up there in mileage, I have a few nagging issues that i want to address but being a daily driver its hard to take it off the road for a week and still get where you need to go..
I read a buyers guide, which I reckon came from here (a buddy of mine that owns some older porsches sent it to me).. Basically it seems like the major issues with these cars are the rear main seal and the intermediate shaft bearing... Both don't look impossible to fix, but could lead to really bad things if not address (IE, oil starvation).. Other than that, it looks like steering rack boots, window regulators and other things which I consider normal stuff goes bad...
I appreciate any comments! Thanks!
Welcome to the site!! I have also been the type of guy who does his own maintenance. From my own experience these cars are great to work on and everything comes apart very easily. You just have to get used to working from underneath these cars since the engine is in the rear. Parts are $$$$ compared to any other car I've owned (Audi, Ford, Honda, Acura, etc). Otherwise the 996 is a blast to drive, I can't wait until SPRING TIME!!
BTW: First thing I tackled even before an oil change was the IMS bearing upgrade. Check my sig if you want to see my IMS thread.
You can add these to your list of common engine component failures:
Timing chain guides (they're plastic)
Air / Oil separator
Water pump
Coolant expansion tank
Cracked heads (less common)
A 996 is one of the BEST sports car buys out there IMO.
The RMS is not a big deal frankly.
The IMS bearing issue is frankly over played in my opinion.
There are over 250K M96 engines in circulation and according to my warranty company they've seen UNDER 1% failure rate due to IMS bearings, but it sure gets a lot of attention because it's catastrophic.
If it gives you peace of mind, for under $1K (if you wrench yourself) you can change the IMS bearing
easy on the list of problems
I think you have a good plan. If you are driving as a toy and doing your own work, you will have the time to do it right and maybe tackle some of the tougher jobs as you wont need it to get you to work Monday - start looking, driving and asking questions. post potential cars and let us pick them apart till you get the hang of it - you'll be fine
996's are great cars to go to work except one major drawback.... all you co-workers think you are wierd cuz you show up to work with a big *** grin every morning you drive it
Man you guys aren't making this easy! I was expecting you guys to talk me out of it, LOL!
I realize that any used car over 5 years old is going to need some attention to some degree, and thats usually what owners forget, that just because its NEW TO YOU doesn't mean its new!
Interesting about the chain guides, thats actually a common issue on the early versions of my car. Does that cause a catastrophic failure, or does it just cause the chains to get really rattly? On the Qs, the slack side guides break into little pieces which causes the chain to come off the cam sprocket, grenading the engine.
My porsche buddy suggested that I try and find a C4 since the AWD adds a whole new dimension to grip, and is pretty reliable, at least in the 993 generation.
Its interesting that you say they're not bad to work on.. another friend of mine had a 944 turbo and that thing was really tough to work on, but I'm sure you guys don't mingle with "those people",
Where do you guys look for parts mainly, I heard Pelican is a good one? I want to browse some common parts and just see how they compare to what I'm used to paying.
The awd is great, but realize you are reducing power to the rear wheels so if you like to spin the rears or donut it ain't gonna happen. If you want maximum speed, 2wd is faster by a hair. If you like awd like me, then it is solid.
If it were me, I'd go for an "s" version. C2s or c4s that fits in your budget.
Been discussed but the basics are:
Do your homework
Find a good car with proof it has been serviced or taken care of properly
PPI, PPI, PPI
Do IMS / RMS so you can sleep nights
I did above and so far been 100% problem free and a blast to drive every day.
Haha, I always rag on my friends that own 944's. I always ask them why the engine is in the front and thats its not even a "real" Porsche.
I have not driven a C4 but I have owned numerous Audi Quattro's and the rear wheel drive (C2) is more fun to drive IMO.
I just dropped my car off at the Porsche dealer this morning to have the parts installed that I ordered before Christmas (windshield washer relay, drop link bushings, strut mounts). I spoke with the service advisor for a while about Porsche reliability. When you look at the performance class that a 911 runs in, it includes Ferrari and other exotic or semi-exotic cars. However, when you compare reliability and maintenance, the 911 stands head and shoulders above the others. This truly is an exotic car you can drive every day. Drive it to the office on Friday, drive it to the track on Saturday.
+1 for the RWD = wicked fun (C4 is fine, just differant)
dont forget Sunset Porsche and/or SunCoast Porsche both are top shelf places
the 996 is build in a way that makes working on it pretty easy (albeit spendy at times) the first time you do an oil change might make your eyes pop open wide - good oil is not cheap and you will need 11 quarts... yea... 11 !
The only thing that I don't like is that most highways are not twisty. So driving the P-car to work (about an hour too) isn't very fun. I prefer to drive the Audi where it's a softer ride and quieter. My $0.02.
However, I love my P-car and how it drives on curvy roads.
wait.... what?
I drive my car up and down the freeway everyday - BORING !
NO WAY!! I love it and find ways of making it SOOO fun. I like some days to get the tail way out on the onramp, others to zip as quick as I can thru the 3 turns (onranp has 3 turns) also getting to the FW ther are bumps I avoid, RR tracks that I blast upto and threashold brake then get back on it, I love to redline 2 and 3rd and sometimes get way up in fourth before I rapidly drop back to 60 (ish) I love to do little sprints were i wind it up, then back down without being noticed and somedays I get free runs on the cloverleaf turns where I test my driving and push it running right up to the jersey barrier on exit (without any cars around) i like to feel the turns even if they are mundane and slow... look for the turn in, feel the car diving towards apex and imagine I am back on it full throttle as I drift towards track out... never leaving my lane...I like to feel the bump road, listen to the flat 6, feel the gears, imagine turns at the track that although much sharper have similarities and find the best way thru in my head, trade off between shuffle steering and not, downshift heel and toe for no reason other than to do it, then back up.... change it up, run is around, brake hard at lights, sense the RPM's every chance I can
Boring....I dont think so, I bought the Porsche for me and after 30 years of waiting if I want to imagine I am driving a racecar everyday.... I think I will. WHo knows, maybe all the mental ************ makes me a little smoother and more used to all these things when uts track day too....I dont know - for me, I have a choice... take the Suburban because its (insert bad weather here) or drive a Porsche - the choice is easy everyday!
not trying to say you dont like your car Ed... just trying to explain the passion I have
You sound like the *perfect* candidate for a 996. Not sure how old you are, but I'm willing to bet you will be kicking yourself for not having done this sooner.
The 996 is really nice to work on. I ran a 1978 911 for many years and it was a neat car to work on, but by 1978 it was already evident that new technology was being engineered into an old chassis. I don't even want to think about how much of a bear the 993 is. The 996 was a clean sheet of paper of course, and I've been really impressed with how it's been put together with simple servicing in mind.
Lot's of good cars out there. My advice is to spend $2K more and get a MkII 3.6 litre car. Not that the 3.4 litre cars aren't good cars too, they definitely are, but the general consensus is that the MkII cars are a bit better.
911 - "most reliable car in Germany"
See post and Press release.
And if you look further - the 996 won award and press coverage as one of the most reliable cars in Europe. Compare that to anything from Milano to Tokyo.
For $20K you just can't find a better Sports Car near this level of performance.
My commute to work is about 15 minutes and I enjoy driving this car so much WISH it was longer. Come on I had a cushy Mercedes and while it did everyting great and was quite and soft but it was BORING!!!
Not so with the the 996 I love driving it and I find excuses to do so. Like IVANGENE I too engage in some mental ************ on SFL highway off ramps
All very good replies, thanks guys! I will begin the lookout, although I probably wont be ready to buy for a couple months yet, its still snowing nicely here in Indiana, so theres no point is just having it sit around and be tempted to drive it...
I looked at parts and they don't seem THAT unreasonable compared to what I've seen.. $100/axle for brake pads, $20 for an air filter, $600 for a clutch, not horrible IMO..
So let me ask you this, why are the 996's and earlier 911's almost the exact same money? I have been looking online, and it seems like the 80's one go for almost the exact same kind of money as a 996? Is it because they are still the air cooled vintage, and thats what the "die hard" guys like?
I traded my 996 straight across for an 86' - no money
those cars have bottomed out price wise and wont be going much lower, as have the 996's IMO. I have started seeing Boxsters sub $10k I think they will find that their bottom - I dont think you will see any descent 996's sub $15k but who knows....
the trouble is when you dont have a way to rebuild a motor (up until recently Porsche only offered replacement motors - not parts) If a $20k car has to have a $20k motor replaced the car itself become worthless....people are not willing to do it. Now that motors are being rebuilt (albeit still big bucks) the prices are settling....if the price to repair gets lower the value of the car gets greater - We had a car in the shop last week, the motor has 25% leakdown on at least one (we stopped looking) cylinder... the owner asked what his options were and he was told (about $15k for a rebuild) he said there is no way that is gonna happen. Well then trade it? nope.... owes the bank $25k (on a 99 with the most horible paint job I have ever seen)
the guy is stuck.... people dont want to be stuck, and so smart folks wont pay that much for a high milage car that "might" stick it too them... remember most people buying a sub $20k car are not rich and dont have a spare $20k for repairs - that's the trouble. And if people had $40k they would buy a newer/less miles car - that's what drive prices down.... the equalize when people think its a great deal and jump in. The smart ones keep some coin aside and take steps to prevent a major repair (like total engine replacement) and those cars will be enjoyed and talked about in a good way - they guys that go "all in" and leave no money for repairs will have a bad experience and that's just the way it is
maybe I talk too much
elwesso, welcome good luck in your search. your price may be borderline for a good mkII 996. If you plan on driving it during all seasons, look into a separate set of M+S tires. A C4 ( C4S), may fit the bill.
FWIW, fty's 996 is a great first Pcar. but for Manual purists, it is not the one.
can't beat the price, either.
https://rennlist.com/forums/996-foru...-for-sale.html
start looking now...it took me a few months to find my car. look all over the country, check out the buyer and sometimes RL'ers here will go "look" at it for you.
ALWAYS get a PPI from someone other than the seller, even if a dealer. (Porsche Dealer may be an exception)
Great insight. $15K for a rebuild, though? Isn't that rather high? I thought the new motors were only $18K? And when you say "we" had a car in the shop, does that imply that you work for an indie? I'm still trying to figure out if you work for Chris's German? Is that enough questions for ya?
I like "We" makes me feel like less of a fly and more like a loyal dog
an early car can still cost as much to rebuild as replace but you end up with a better product if you used the LNE complete set-up 9which Chris's (we
) would - the cases are upgraded, several internals and IIRC better rings
interesting - remember that was 2005 dollars right.... still much less. There was a guy on youtube did a rebuild in his garage on a Boxster and documented the whole thing, said he did it for somewhere south of $4k also
yea, I try to be useful - I make tooling and problem solve, do lab work on parts and whatever else I can think of..... I'm sort of like the guy at 7-11 late at night who knows he's got a friend in the cashier..... only cuz the cashier cant leave
Right, but when you're on a highway for 6 miles residential/25 miles no traffic/6miles heavy stop and go traffic/20miles no traffic/3 miles stop and go/9 miles no traffic/2 miles residential you're not going to enjoy what the car does, especially when you know that the car can be so much fun. Maybe I'm an old fart... Add the fact that the CHP is on every offramp, behind everybush...
I just saw that car (fty's) and I don't think I can deal with an automatic.. im sure its not bad, but there's something about pressing that clutch in, and engaging the shifter into the gear you want that is just irreplaceable, even if the automatic version is a hair faster..
That is a smokin price though..
No. I'm still poking around on it. I planned on getting the paintless dent removal to get rid of three door dings, (not serious but they bug me). Once that was done I'll put it up.
But at the same time I'm looking at the X74... I have a set of MPSC's sitting in the garage ready to go on....
I'm that guy in front of you who can't decide what to get at the drive up window.....
So? I'm a daily driver....really looking forward to the 3 to 6" snow we are getting tonight. These aren't fair weather cars. So where in Indiana are you? Get your car and let's go to the track!
Elwesso - since you have time to look - reach out to your Amazon or Barns & Noble and pickup Adrian Streater's new 996 Buyers Guide for $12. Beside all the good advice you have seen here (except for Ed?) Adrian is a real good read and has several BIG books on older Porsche's that are a must have if you really want to understand your favorite. But start with the Buyers Guide and take your time and pick the options you want in your 911. Rush and pick in a hurry - it is double the cost. Pick wisely and it is double the fun. Good new is - they made a lot of these 996 's and you can have your Pick of the Litter at a great price - because lot of folks want to look back and have a piece of Porsche History - rather than Porsche Futures. To each his/her own. I have had them both and for now the 996 C4 Tip fits my needs.
PS - wait till spring - buy a Southern Califoria 996 (not salted like the mid-west variety)... Have a great vacation - visit Universal Studios and Mulholland Drive and the Grand Canyon on the way home... :-)
