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YOUR RESEARCHIs this true about the 99 YO?
Leading reported evidence
Fill with engine oil
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
The IMS bearing was filled with engine oil but suprising tight still for 105K.
Leading evidence: 'Fill with engine oil' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Check potential ims bearing failure other than' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
-Clutch was replaced in 2002 and is still perfect.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
On that subject, it appears that the oil was changed on the 15k service periods.
Replace without cracking the engine block or heads
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Since the IMS bearing can be replaced without cracking the engine block or heads, then it is still an external item, by definition.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Like any used car there is always a chance of a problem.
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Suggestion
At the price you are potentially paying you can be money and sleep ahead by having a quality shop remove the engine, replace the RMS with the latest update, IMS bearing with the latest update, the AOS with the latest separator, get a new clutch, pressure plate, and T/O bearing, get a new serpentine belt, oil change, filters all around, and maybe even get a knick or a knack thrown in like a new coolant fill tank.
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Suggestion
Well, what has not been said yet, is that you can "repair" all of those possible issues with an older 996 for about $5,000 and not worry about them anymore.
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59 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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What ever happened to the good old farm boys that fixed their own stuff.
"The early 996 cars are know for numerous issues like bearing problems on the intermediate shaft where the "fix" is a replacement engine...do a bit of homework and focus on the 3.6 cars. There are reasons why the early 996s are so "affordable". "
I am looking at a 99/996 and this was brought to my attention in a post about selling my 928 from a fellow 928'r...
Can you give me more info about this.
Do a search there are literally thousands of posts about this, also the 3.6 is far from bulletproof and can be subject the the RMS and IMS issues as well.
The problem affects Boxsters and 996 and 997 up to 2008. In 2009, the engine was redesigned without an intermediate shaft (IMS). Only time will tell how well the new engine design holds up.
I had an IMS failure (2004 Boxster S Anniv) but surely not everybody has. The bottom line is either get a warranty with the you buy or keep some money aside (a lot) in case the engine fails. The IMS failure can happen at any mileage and I can tell you from my experience, it has nothing to do with car abuse. Mine was religiously maintained.
With that being said, would I buy another. YES! You just have to be mindful of the potential problem and the best way is with a warranty. I'm keeping my car which now has a new engine and won't buy another one until I see how the 2009 and newer engines hold up.
Another 1999 scare thread......there are tons of 99/996s with stock 3.4 motors that do not have any RMS/IMS issues at all. I just sold mine and it was perfect. This has little to do with the affordability. 996s are affordable because the production numbers were so huge. Some would argue the front light design(tear drop) is also a reason for them to be so affordable...
There are also places that can make a 3.4 motor as reliable and any. And some replacement motors that 996s have that are more reliable than the stock motors
3.6 motors may be more reliable but they also can break and do
If you are looking at a 1999 get a PPI done and get all service and records. Like any used car there is always a chance of a problem. 996 maintenance is also key so do your homework and get service records from the owners and/or service depts.
What's the cost involved to replace the engine? Also what are teh signs of the failure?
This sucks. This has a good potential of killing the deal for me. Sadly I woudl be willing to put a lot of money on a bet that the car I am looking at is on its way to needing and engine. The current owner has only had it for 4 months, the guy before that had it for just under a year.
Here is what I know at this time about the care of the car
-Ignition Switch replaced
103000 miles. ( im a 928 guy Mileage doesnt scare me, maybe a bad thing with a 911?)
-Air Mass Sensor replaced
-7500 mile full service
-30k mile full service
-45k mile full service
-60k mile full service
-75k mile full service
-90k mile full service
(All full services were done at Porsche Dealerships and had a Synthetic oil change at every service. I have paperwork)
-Clutch was replaced in 2002 and is still perfect.
I have a 99 C4 with the 3.4 with 105K miles. I just dropped the transmission/engine to replace the clutch, IMS bearing, RMS, chain guides, cam adjuster pads, and AOS. The only real wear is on the cam adjuster pads and the chain adjusters, the AOS was bad and leaking oil everywhere. The RMS and IMS was dry. The IMS bearing was filled with engine oil but suprising tight still for 105K.
Rick
99 996C4
87 944S
Marc you have been a great help. He is faxing me the service records in a few min. What am I looking for? I am thinking the cluch job was done when it had the AOS failure.
I found if they are belowe 100k miles Porsche dealer will sell you a pretty good waranty. once over you have to go indy and I have not researched that.
I have 114k miles (bought at 101k)
I can assure you after finding out how much an engine cost I didnt sleep for 6 months - now I take large amounts of drugs and feel better
I've seen that car on eBay for a while -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...WAX%3AIT#v4-17
Appearance wise it looks good, other than usual bolster wear. I like the color combo.
I'm not concerned about mileage- especially if it was driven year round and not left to sit for long periods. Worst thing for a car is sitting or lack of maintenance. On that subject, it appears that the oil was changed on the 15k service periods. Check to see if the oil was done more frequently. 15k is too long for any car. The German's originally extended the oil frequency to 15k for environmental reasons and have since reduced the interval on the cars. My MB also had a ridiculously long oil change intervals. The factory eventually revised them and also changed the recommended oil to synthetic. (duh)
The 996's seem to change hands more often the 993's probably because many buyers are not as much ‘car enthusiasts’, but simply fulfilling a lifetime dream of owning a Porsche. Then they realize the car is not what they has fantasized, is expensive to maintain if you're not a DIYer, they didn't drive as much as they thought, doesn't hold golf clubs well, doesn’t have the torque of a Corvette, etc... Multiple owners is not always a sign of problems, just poor purchasing habits.
Overall looks like a nice car - PPI? Are you close to Utah? I have bought many cars on line and ALWAYS pick them up myself. I don’t give them money ahead of time. I had an interesting conversation with a transport driver as he was loading a car I sold a few years ago. He said you would not believe how many times he is unloading a car for a new owner and they tell him to “stop, don't unload it”. The car isn't as represented on eBay and they don't want it. He tells them he is paid to ‘transport and deliver’. Leaves it on the street and is on his way. Lots of foolish buyers out there.
You really can't check for a potential IMS bearing failure other than to replace it. L & N Engineering makes a great one and the labor isn't that big a deal. I would replace it if you buy the car as it will blow your entire motor if it goes.
http://www.lnengineering.com/ims.html
Offer the guy $14k based on all that stuff that doesn't work. Tell him because of the mileage you'll need to replace the IMS bearing immediately....
The RMS leak is nothing, just a drip and most folks just ignore it if it happens.
The A/O seperator is a smog device and they fail occasionally causing huge clouds of white smoke to blow out the tail pipe. It's a $100. part and a bitch to replace because it's in the back. Count on 3-4 hours of labor. The risk is it could fill your motor with oil vapors and cause a hydrolock...
[QUOTE=jrgordonsenior;7179509]
Offer the guy $14k based on all that stuff that doesn't work. Tell him because of the mileage you'll need to replace the IMS bearing immediately....
QUOTE]
The seller already had bids for over $16k on ebay. He will laugh at $14k.
Back to an original question you asked. The MkII cars (with 3.6 litre motors) are more desirable not so much because of reliability, which is debatable, but more because they perform better.
The 3.6 has more horsepower, 320 instead of 296.
The 3.6 is much snappier owing to variocam plus which lifts the valves higher at 3000 rpm in addition to changing the valve angle (which the 3.4 does as well).
The MkII chassis is stiffer - by as much as 25% according to Porsche.
The MkII cars had revised headlights, which most agree are better looking although I don't necessarily think so.
The MkII has revised bumpers which increase cooling significantly according to Porsche.
MkII interiors are improved, with a glove box and cup holders.
I personally wanted a MkI car for my second 996 because I could have saved a few $ and because I prefer the headlights, but ultimately I paid a few (just a few) extra $ for a MkII car because they are the better machine.
I think that with a car that age the IMS is the least of your potential problems.
Get a PPI. Better yet, spend another $4-5k on top of what he's asking to get something in better shape. That car is clean but was clearly someone's daily driver (not necessarily a bad thing if wear items were replaced and those "full maintenance" jobs at the dealer were just that). From the looks of the brakes alone I wouldn't be surprised if another $2-3k in maintenance awaits you to get the car where it should be. Encountering any of the issues typical to a car with this age and mileage will make you wish you spent the repair bill on a better example.
If your budget precludes you from buying any more car than this (and ESPECIALLY if you're financing it) then I'd start looking at used Boxsters. for $12k you can find a Boxster that's likely in better condition than this car, and for $16k you could get yourself a nice S with 1/2-2/3 the mileage this car has. I know--a Boxster isn't a 911--but it's a hell of a lot of car for the money and a good "stepping stone."
Mark
I agree the 928 is a hell of a machine, but both the Boxster and 996 are formidable in their own right (and 20+ years ahead in the design curve). The point I wanted to make was: for the price of your example car, you can buy a lot more Boxster than you can 996. If the car doesn't suit your taste that's fine (it suits mine, I used to own a 986. Forgive my personal preferences coming to light here.
This doesn't invalidate my point that a 996 in this price range is going to be a gamble in terms of reliability and after-sale cost. If you have the means, I'd suggest looking for newer cars with less mileage, because you'll find more options than the handful of 996 cars priced as low as this one. If you don't have the means to stretch further and don't mind a few repairs, go for it--I do like the Meridian color.
One last thought--if an insurance company was paying to install a reman engine in this 996, it would effectively total the car.
Good hunting,
Mark
Thanks for playing along, Wasnt sure how you were going to take that post. Boxter is just not my taste. I do 99% of my own work. I am not afraid of a fix. But a whole engine replacment would be hard to take. I would put the 928 up against an NA boxter or 996 anyday. I am pretty sure it would hold its own well. Its just in the last few years that other performace cars have passed the perfromance of the 928
Well, what has not been said yet, is that you can "repair" all of those possible issues with an older 996 for about $5,000 and not worry about them anymore. At the price you are potentially paying you can be money and sleep ahead by having a quality shop remove the engine, replace the RMS with the latest update, IMS bearing with the latest update, the AOS with the latest separator, get a new clutch, pressure plate, and T/O bearing, get a new serpentine belt, oil change, filters all around, and maybe even get a knick or a knack thrown in like a new coolant fill tank.
What happens is that folks wait until it fails before acting. Then it is too late for the engine, if it is the IMS bearing. All the other "issues" can be detected before they cause an expensive engine failure.
The IMS bearing seems to have a numerically high failure rate if you only use the data on this forum. And that may be so. But that numerically high percentage may be less than 10%.
IF you buy the car and then do a major service and they bless everything, then all you need to do is decided for yourself when to have the "preventative" maintenance done. The PPI is worth the money to you. It will let you know what your immediate potential is for problems. The other items just become "normal maintenance."
The real issue with a 996 with over 100,000 miles is if you have good compression, good leak down, and good lifters. Those are INTERNAL engine items that would be expensive. Everything else that is raged upon on this forum is on the OUTSIDE of the engine. Since the IMS bearing can be replaced without cracking the engine block or heads, then it is still an external item, by definition. Pistons, rings, valves, crankshafts are not.
I'm always here for the debate.
And I totally agree, it's taken a long time for mainstream sports cars to match what the 928 offers.
There are people here with 200+k on their 996 engines, so I wouldn't count out the motor with a good service history like this one has. A little more money might go a long way toward alleviating worries about this.
Agreed on all fronts. Ignoring everything but the badge they have in common, all P-cars bring a grin to my face. 986 is not a 996, but the Boxster has its own charms that aren't part of the 911 formula. Not for everyone, sure, but I miss mine whenever I take my wife's car for a spin.
[QUOTE=number9ine;7179775]I think that with a car that age the IMS is the least of your potential problems.Mark
/QUOTE]
I couldn't disagree with you more...
Fact is, for under $20k, you get a great car, that's thoroughly modern, and has great performance and is a joy to drive. I think the car you're looking at is a good deal at $17k or thereabouts. The color combo doesn't appeal to me personally, but the car appears to be solid. Also, as a personal opinion, I think you might need an AOS, a window regulator, water pump or microswitch, expansion tank or the like somewhere, but likely that'll be the extent of things the car'd require. Unlike what most vocal people here say, I'm of the opinion that 996s are pretty solid cars overall. I'd prefer an MK2 example, but the price delta is hard to justify at ~$8k+, which is why I'm on my second 99 C2...
Recently rewatched Scarface....the movie reminded me what I dislike about the the 928....the movie was great but its all about the guys who are the "want to bes"...the gold chain guys. Buy what you can afford not what you can get on the cheap to impress the neighbor or your co-workers at Erie Insurance. "Himself" has the quote wrong...." As the old saying goes: a cheap Porsche (996) will be the most expensive car you ever own"...."Buying one cheap" Porsche (or BMW or MB or Ferrari) is the most expensive car you will over own". High milage.....multiple owners...etc...is the problem. The 996 is not a cheap Porsche....it is very well built and is the most reliable car I have ever owned.
Guys, thank you for the comments and insight. At this point I have chosen to send the gent a depo on the car. I am having a local dealer look at the car for a PPI.
It is my conclusion here and on other boards the ISF is something of concern. But the only way to actually fully prevent it is to do a regular scheduled replacement on the bearing. It is also hard to detect that it is even comoing other than what some have called a "death roll" of noise that you have to be listening for. I think 17 for the car is a fare price if the car is as stated. Tomorrow I will move forward.
Life is a gamble. If you like the car go for it. I too wait for the death rattle. Have thought seriously about selling it and buying a 2002 M5 as a replacement as its performance is comparable and fun to drive. In the end i'm a Porsche guy and nothing is as fun to drive with that flickable feel that a 911 has. If and when my engine detonates, i'll post up and you all can console/cajole me. Until then its foot to the floor madness and turn in deliciousness for me.
If life is a gamble then I'll take the lead of an old weatern movie and have my gun under the table pointed at the dealer
The "death rattle"??? oh oh I better go drive my car and listen for it. Can I hear the noise over The Doors, ZZ Top, AC/DC and others? I'll test that.
Let me translate.
The point is that you're not buying a $20K car, you're buying an $80K car that has depreciated down to $20K. That means that all the parts and services are those of an $80K car. If you can't afford or handle that cost, then you shouldn't be buying the car.
Shark Attack, so the Ebay auction on your car ended with Reserve Not Met and the last bid at $16,100......did you end up buying directly from the seller after the auction?
I have to agree with this (sounds like the OP does, too). Every bit of rumor and anxiety has already been priced into these cars twice over. The purchase price plus whatever it takes to make it right still adds up to a bargain. Sometimes, I think these debates are entitlement gone mad.
Good one!! BUt which Ben are you referring to.... OC Ben or Ben Choi???? The comment certainly fits both personalities.
Marc, as much as I hate to do this
, I have to agree with you.
THANK YOU. I wanted to say that Sooooooo bad.... But I bit my toung. And I wasnt in the mood to sugar coat it with "all due respect"
I must say I over looked the service records for the car today. And, I must say i am impressed wtih how cheap the car has been to maintain. I am so used to 928 bills that this 996 service prices seem like a bargain. Hell.. I paid more for parts on most service than the whole bill from the dealer for the 996.
i bought my 99 c2 coupe two months back, it's the same color as the ebay car except non-aero. mine had 89k miles from a local small dealer that got the car from local Porsche dealer auction. Paid 17k and that was their advertised price. Passed PPI at local indy Pcar shop with flying colors, but car didn't come with any maintenance record after 60k miles, but the car looks like it's been taken care of by PO.
Did I worry about IMS, sure, i still do.. but I just drove this from Seattle to San Diego without any hiccups over the past week, the first leg was 13 hours straight from Seattle to San Jose, then down to SD the next day, currently in Santa Rosa and with a 10 hour drive tomorrow to Portland. In total, i will have added 3k miles in one week! The oil dip stick is still full, and this trip just helped me build confidence that this car will keep on ticking for a long time..
But I agree most used cars can be a gambles, even the best maintenance'd ones. Cars can break, and as in anything else, i just hope that i have enough good karma saved up for those rainy days.. but who knows and YMMV of-course.
good luck! herb
good grief, don't be so literal........ also, don't come back here stating how you got screwed by a bad 996, you get what you pay for, looks like your paying for a piece of crap, best of luck.
Shark, car looks great and sounds like you're going in as informed as you can be. FWIW, I went through the same process about a year ago and couldn't be happier. As to why people feel the need to be douches in a thread like this, I can't explain. I guess some folks just have an axe to grind...
Replacing a FB (that might require a BFH) which some get technical about and call an IMS is just a FB. Pull the engine and replace the F thing. I think TV has permiated a kindergarden fear ready to be realeased in every ascpect of peoples lives these days. What ever happened to the good old farm boys that fixed their own stuff. Wasn't henry ford making bicycles before he went into an assembly line game of cars. I think actually the talent aspect of humans is declining not advancing. I guess I should of taken my medication hehehe. Ooops rant over.
If it's beat up buy it for the track and strip it down in weight and have more fun than you would ever have on public roads. Keep it registered for the street though.
Math: Thank you for the kind words and the encouragement.
Im a republican. I would never come back here and start a rant of how "screwed" I got. I take responsibilty for all my actions. All I can say is:
and did you buy it? is it a real aero? would you buy at 12k? that car is a typical ebay piece of crap, about $7k too short for a real aero.......
car is that cheap and still no deal????
why do all these people think good cars are soooooo cheap, there is a difference between a nice car and a typical lowest price ebay car, scam scam scam, then people wnat to compare crap against something nice......
i still don't understand how anyone can expect good records etc from crap, explain......
Dallas I've bought 4 Porsches, 2 AMG Benz's, and 2 duallies off Ebay all with great results. Not a missrepresentation or a bad car among the group. We still have 2 of the Porsches, the 2 Benz's, and 1 of the duallies. You have to do some research of course.....
I said i woudl post back on this thread. The car is 110% what i was told. It is nicer than I thought it was. The original pix didnt do it justice. I would say I got a pretty nice car for the money. It goes in shortly for a clutch and an LN ims bearing upgrade. Other than that, its good enough for me.
Oh so sorry Mr Shark. Now you taste the meat of a 911 and have to chew on the performance some more. Hmmm what rims...19"? Just how wide of a tire width can you get in those wheel wells? A super charger sure would make things interesting for you
Good luck playing around with your new car. Did I miss some pictures?
Not that anyone cares. I have elected to have a lot more work done that just the IMS retro.
I am having the engine pulled, the retro installed. New vario cam chains and tensioners done. AND GET THIS. One of the tensioners on the IMS chain has been modified by porsche. IT DOESNT PUT AS MUCH TENSION ON THIS CHAIN. This is the chain that goes from the IMS up to the cams. Could Porsche be smelling something? Of couse a clutch is being done too.
Lifters were suggested but my shop said to hold off and lets have a look at them.
I guess by popular opinion all the chain tensioners are pretty well shot at 80-100K and when they fail they have the same results as the IMSB. The kicker is thier is one more I can not get to unless we crack the engine. I think with that I will just have to take my chances. I am not going that far.
