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YOUR RESEARCHThe 992.2 is killer
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But, that brings us back to "replacing" instead of "repairing".
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But, that brings us back to "replacing" instead of "repairing".
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I guess that we are reaching an era where DIY will only be changing the radio or replacing the battery on the key fob.
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The difference is that, with modern cars, you simply replace modules as opposed to tinker with stuff until it works.
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I guess that we are reaching an era where DIY will only be changing the radio or replacing the battery on the key fob.
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I built/designed one of the first hydraulic/electronic clutch controlls ever back in the 1980's on my World Record setting drag car.....I made the clutch linkage hydraulic ( was cable operated) and installed an Electronic valve in the line wired to a button on the shifter...I could "tune" how fast the clutch released for the "launch" , and also use my finger to release the clutch instead of my left leg....I had found that finger control is 10x faster and more accurate at clutch release than using the whole left leg...It was written about in the feature on my car in 1986 Super Stock Magazine.., I got calls from all over the world about that set-up...
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I know Porsche buyers are not a monolith, but I hear "Who am I to second-guess Porsche engineers who know far better than I ever will about these things." Then those engineers use a gearbox that's out of this world, "Those guys have no idea what they are doing!!"
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This post is not about comparing the newest 911 to the 996. It�s about comparing the newest 911 to any 2024-2025 car on the market.
Adding all that power and torque, adding two electric motors/generators and a battery adds up to only an extra 100lbs of weight and makes that car a lot quicker and faster is pretty unique.
I remember when the 996 came out and all the air-cooled folks were comparing it and saying it�s not for them.
In 20 years, the 992.2 will still be an amazing car that retains an old-school ICE and in 2044, we will be talking about how they don�t make them like this anymore.
The numbers sure look good. I hope the driving dynamics hold up well. They're still big for my taste, even if they're not big in comparison the their contemporary competition.
Yeah, they have become very powerful, very fast, very big, very comfortable and very heavy. I was blown away by the 992 GTS which I drove on the track last year. The 911 has become a beautiful and comfortable GT car that is fast as he'll. Bring on the hybrids!
The new GTS is jaw dropping, that�s an amazing hypercar. MSRP is just nuts but I suppose this is modern Porsche and their market.
No info at least that I could find that there is a warranty extension on the electric stuff. 4/50 seems insufficient. I guess if you are the market for this, you�d be price insensitive to out of warranty repairs anyway.
That was quite telling indeed. Having the 901 & 996 referenced as the basis for a new 911 definitely shows Porsche acknowledges the 996. Just like when they launched the 996 Classic Club Coupe.
The headlights were the first thing the journalist said she noticed about the new design. That�s so funny.
They said something about 32,000 individually controlled LEDs? What!?
Forgive me Mike, i know its not a comparison thread, but the funny thing is the 996 is still more fun and rewarding to drive. Its definately not as fast, not as forgiving when yiu make a mistake, not as luxurious, no technology to speak of, but a hell of alot of fun and engaging to drive on the street and track.
Imho, in 20 years time, we will all be looking back saying...
Man, I am glad I bought my 996 when I did.
I have to compare the owners when they snub my 996.2 lol...Ive gotten 1 wave while the rest are like WTF is that lol....over the weekend 3 waves from 2 996s and a Boxster owner ....I feel validated I got the right 911
Just watched the video, I liked the nod to the 996 but�wow was that tacky. Dunno what vibe the marketing team was going for, but that was cringey. Confirmed I�m not the market.
It's funny, the 996 became appealing to me during my second 992 ownership. I had a 992 GT3 Touring PDK and thought it was too much car for me. I sold the GT3 in Feb this year and have now purchased a 2002 996 4S 6-speed. I plan to get back on the next gen 992.2 GT3 manual, but for now I'll enjoy the more analog 996 while using it as my training wheels to get better at driving a manual
Absolutely. The 991 and 992 are powerful beasts. If you can master shifting, braking and balancing a 996 around the track and carry alot of speed without the nannies, you can drive anything.
The 992 GTS I drove on the track last year was a manual. It's a notchy short shift. Took a couple of laps to master it's rythym. Beautiful car.
So, when I heard "hybrid", I assumed that there would be an electric motor driving the wheels somehow. Is having an electric turbo enough to officially call a car a "hybrid" and thus qualify for all of the benefit that hybrids qualify for (tax breaks, HOV lanes, etc...)?
The other Porsche hybrids (Panamera, Cayenne) were more traditional hybrids where you could travel on battery power.
I have been on track a few.times this year with a brand new (still had a temp tag) 992.2 gt3rs. To say that thing just walks away from u is an understatement....but it should for $460k. Its truely amazing what it can do on track.
All of these cars are as amazing as they are too much for public roads, which is the trend these days with supercars where 500 HP is pretty much the lower limit for a modern sports car. They are great for the track, particularly if lap times are your hot button.
The downside is the entry price. Worse yet, once the warranty wears off you are subject to very costly maintenance. Not much fun in that. At least the 6GT3 has been relatively easy on the bank account and something that the owner can reasonably self-maintain.
I'm also a little weary about any car that makes the pilot more and more a passenger where your inputs are taken as mere suggestions.
The horsepower wars are waaaay past getting out of hand with many manufacturers.
I wish auto journalists wouldn't focus so much on HP and then maybe manufacturers will back off pushing so hard. Or maybe it's the manufacturers simply using HP to 1-up each other. I don't know. But, I do know it's stupid.
I've had a +500HP +200MPH car (stock E60 M5). It was made to win a p***ing contest between whoever BMW was targeting at the time (AMG?) and it was overkill for my needs. I'd rather have a car that feels and handles like a dream with modest HP than one flies like a rocket (even if that one handled well, too). Also, I have zero interest in racing. Never have.
I just watched a Top Gear video about the new 992 GTS Hybrid, and I admit that I�m quite excited about this car
I have a preference for simple, analog cars, but I�m impressed with the new hybrid. I was afraid that it would become an AWD car, but am happy to find out that it�s remained RWD. I really like the implementation of the e-Turbo and think that it is a clever idea.
I�m slightly disappointed at the lack of a manual transmission, but I can appreciate the upside of a PDK.
From a technical standpoint, I think this car is a success. Due to the compact size of the engine, it allowed itself to be mounted lower than its predecessors. I would be thrilled to drive one of these, but I shudder at the thought of repairs. The 996 seems much less complex in comparison.
Don�t you mean 992.1 gt3rs? They won�t be doing a .2 until the 2027 model. And it starts at $241k, so that must have been the Weissach package plus a heck of an ADM.
The other motor is a 54HP unit embedded into the PDK. Yes, it assists the ICE particularly at low revs, since the motor will fill in torque gaps. So the 0-60 and 1/4-mile times are much faster than the old car.
The engineering is fascinating. If we calculate how much time this battery is used before it�s depleted, 54HP is around 40kw and served by a 1.9kw-h battery. So that battery might be able to deliver full power to the motor for no longer than 3 mins. So for it to last the full 7-mins at the Nurburgring Nordschiefe (as claimed), it needs to be recharged under braking, coasting, and possibly other conditions (the turbocharger�s electric motor also charges the battery).
I�d imagine that drivability in this new system is where all the brilliance would be. In order to have this system feel transparent - make the car feel like it�s just an ICE - they probably need high quality software and low latency computers to make all sorts of decisions in lots of different scenarios. Guessing all this innovation has come down from racing as usual, as hybrid race cars have been around long enough now.
The electric motor is cooled by the gear oil! There's an oil cooler dedicated to the PDK/motor unit. Technologically the car is jaw-dropping. Here's a Savage Geese video on the tech.
You Tube
Right. I think the older PDKs also had heat exchangers on them, I just don�t remember how it worked?
The new PDK uses two different types of fluid. An ATF-like fluid and a gear oil for the gears, and I think there are two different heat exchangers involved?
They also did mention that thermals were not an issue with the new car. They must have good airflow due to the newer front bumper design for that to work.
For all this to work without adding an huge amount of weight, that 400-volt system is key because higher voltage systems need a lot less copper in the wire to deliver similar power.
I'll bet that the insurance premiums are nosebleeds.....along with putting it on the shared roadways... finances are finances. I guess that we are reaching an era where DIY will only be changing the radio or replacing the battery on the key fob.
I mean, DIY will still be DIY. I've worked on older and modern cars in my home garage using YT, scan tools, and forums. The difference is that, with modern cars, you simply replace modules as opposed to tinker with stuff until it works.
Real talk, what's great about modern stuff is that the telemetry and whatnot are much better than 20+ years ago. So, the right scan tool can tell you exactly what the offending unit is that you need to replace. But, that brings us back to "replacing" instead of "repairing". To be honest, this is good for the DIY'er, provided the parts aren't crazy expensive.
I guess a .1 as im not too versed on the newer cars. It was full leather, pccb and the titanuim wheel package.
Looks like the average is 417k with the lowest over 300k.
https://www.classic.com/m/porsche/911/992/gt3-rs/
I don't think anyone mentioned it yet, but the 992.2 lost me with no manual transmission offered. I get why they can't if its integrated with the PDK, but the driver engagement with PDK just isn't there for me - even though it may be superior for lap times. Not that I'd ever be able to afford a new one, but years down the road I don't see ever owning past a 991.2. Luckily I'm old enough to probably never need anything newer.
I bet Porsche can figure out how to do a hybrid with a manual. They probably could just only do the PDK version first, and then later, they might do the manual version. They could put the electric motor in the diff on the manual perhaps.
I know I�m grossly oversimplifying things with this statement, but here goes: Back in 2000, Honda released their first-generation Insight and it was a hybrid car that had a manual transmission option. The electric motor was sandwiched between the ICE and the transmission.
I believe the ability to produce a manual hybrid is available, but for some reason Porsche didn�t pursue it. I don�t think it�s because they�re unable to, because - as we�ve seen with this model - they have the technical capabilities to innovate around more difficult problems.
Regarding automatic vs manual...
I know Porsche buyers are not a monolith, but I hear "Who am I to second-guess Porsche engineers who know far better than I ever will about these things." Then those engineers use a gearbox that's out of this world, "Those guys have no idea what they are doing!!"
We can't have it both ways. There is no doubt that modern dual-clutch transmissions are superior in every way when it comes to performance. I've heard PDK having been described as, "Telepathic" when it comes to shifting.
I've had some bad gear boxes. But, any auto in a modern Porsche is amazing.
Personally, I'll be glad when this, "We demand manual transmissions in cutting-edge cars!", stuff fades away. That's like demanding functional propellers on fighter jets...because they look cool.
As mentioned above when I commented on the HP wars, I think it starts with the auto journalists and reviewers. "The new [xyz] would be amazing...if it came with a 6MT."
What's wild is that I hear it from the newer generation of car enthusiasts
who have never driven a manual in their lives!
and have no frame of reference. They are just repeating what they hear in the internet car culture echo chamber.
It's getting to the point where a manual is not easy nor friendly to use with the horse power and technology employed in the new cars. However, most credible journalists have a wide spectrum of experience, including manual transmissions.
I do get a kick when you open the 911's rear deck you can't actually see the engine, just a plastic sign telling you there is an engine in that jungle somewhere.
I’m fortunate to have driven PDK cars thousands of laps on track and they’re essential for driving fast. In my experience, only a handful of instances resulted in a badly timed held- or up-shift.. At 5/100 per corner, per lap (5 car lengths over 16 corners) for a 30 minute session is a lot of time. Less mental effort spent on rev matching is more brain bytes available for other tasks. No money shifts: That’s important for a car that costs north of $100k.
A Sport Chrono manual with auto-blip is a hoot to drive. But, as previously mentioned, with the power, torque and capability of a modern sports car, why would I want to be the downgraded part? I drive my 996 manual for enjoyment on the street. On the track I only want to go as fast as possible…PDK.
If only my 955 had PDK.
No Problem !! The PDK is essentially a manual trans with computer controlled shifts and dual clutches via hydraulic pumps..
The Porsche 7-speed manual shares about 80% of its parts with the 7-speed PDK..
They / ( Porsche ) could actually just put an Electronic clutch pedal and gear shifter in the car to command the computers to perform the drivers requests....lol
PS; The are probably already working on the design to get the pedal and shifter " feel" to mimic a conventional clutch and shifter..??/?
lol that's just sequential shifting with extra steps.
(get it? "extra
steps
"...as in unnecessarily stepping on the clutch pedal...I'm a comedian now.)
Unfortunately, the majority of new Porsche buyers don't want a manual. They want an automatic. Any dealer can confirm if you ask. Maybe the pdk makes it even more attractive because you can go full auto or shift it yourself. Also adds a few bells and whistles when the car synchronized revs for you as well. For sure, on the track the pdk is faster.
But, man...
The new generation of drivers is really missing out on the art and science of heel toe shifting and having to balance the car on the track without nannies. But we live in an age that people get excited about self driving cars.
Maybe just maybe, some of the new generation of buyers want to experience what its like to really drive a car using their hands, feet and butt instead of a computer and they gravitate toward the 996 for the old school feel.
Did they really ? Which model ?
I remember driving a used BMW before I retired from Porsche that had a V10 engine and a single clutched manual/automated trans that was computer controlled and shifted like a turd.... it would pull so hard then cut the power make the shift , then re-apply the power....( nothing even close to a PDK ) ...seemed to take FOREVER to make the shift....lol...but it didn't have a clutch pedal or "shifter".....
I think if Porsche decided to do what I'm talking about it will be "next level" , or a complete bomb...
Are we in love with that stuff because that's what we grew up on and this new generation is growing up on their own stuff? Are they gonna pine for 992.1s as "The last
real
911 because it wasn't hybrid! You can
feeeeel
the engine. You can HEAR it!"
Shifting gears a bit...
Personally, I think Porsche should emphasize feel and driving dynamics over HP and straight line speed when they are selling these cars. That's always been what made their cars feel special to me and what I found lacking in many AMGs and M cars. Hell, even the low seating position is really different. The road coming into your eyes from that lower angle feels different than when driving other comparably equipped sports cars. Hell, I liked driving my base 970 Panamera more than my W221 S63 AMG for these reasons.
Let BMW and AMG win the muscle wars while Porsche wins over hearts with great feeling cars.
That was the S85 in the E6[x] M5 and M6. The transmission was the SMG III. It admittedly was clunky in the "softer" shift settings. But, if you put it in the higher, faster shift settings, it was better. And never drive it in "D" auto mode. You must drive it as a sequential manual shifting gears yourself using either the shifter in the console or the paddles. THEN everything worked as expected.
They really do feel like driving a manual car (I guess because it is down in there). The pauses between shifts feel natural and not DCT lightning quick.
And when you maxed out all of the settings...and the 8,500RPM redline...woooo boy. They are fun.
You Tube
It's going to be extremely expensive to service a 991 or 992 due to its complexity after the warranty is up. The depreciation cycle will be alive and we'll just like every other Porsche in history.
No question, 20 years down the road, the new up and coming generation will buy them because it's the car they grew up watching as a kid. And over that 20 years their will be alot of belly aching over the issues with the 991 and 992.
Nevertheless, I applaud what Porsche is building and its technological evolution. But I agree with you, very few folks can handle the power. But, what will save the owners are the nannies. Imagine 500 hp in the 996 with no PSM and only an LSD. It would be uncontrollable for the vast majority of folks and would be the second coming of the widow maker.
People with more money than talent deserve that wake-up call. If only the car would save only the innocents on the other side of the windshield I'm sure Porsche would be more than happy to go for it, but that means having nannies that you may as well turn on instead of turning off whenever the driver is alone.
I had an E60 M5 with the SMG transmission, but I didn�t care for it much. Since 2006, thankfully, every manufacturer it seems has gotten better to the point where it is today. On the track, I�d probably want the PDK, but only a modern PDK. In 2006, on that BMW, even on the track, I�d want the manual instead.
I agree 100%. It was definitely not a track car. More of an Autobahn cruiser and a big, "Look at what we can do!", to the other auto manufacturers.
That was the last of the SMG transmissions for a reason 😂
Yes I'm aware of all the double-clutch computer controlled " paddle shifters" but I was referring to the"possible" next level of "driver commanded clutch and shifter controls" ....
The evolution of clutch control/shift control has advanced from (1)driver commanded full linkage control (2)driver commanded cable linkage control (3) driver commanded hydraulic control (4) computer controlled hydraulic clutch and shift control, (6) the possibile driver commanded / computer actuated hydraulic control....( with clutch pedal and shifter for more driver engagement/connection ) ?? PS;; it may not ever happen ..
I built/designed one of the first hydraulic/electronic clutch controlls ever back in the 1980's on my World Record setting drag car.....I made the clutch linkage hydraulic ( was cable operated) and installed an Electronic valve in the line wired to a button on the shifter...I could "tune" how fast the clutch released for the "launch" , and also use my finger to release the clutch instead of my left leg....I had found that finger control is 10x faster and more accurate at clutch release than using the whole left leg...It was written about in the feature on my car in 1986 Super Stock Magazine.., I got calls from all over the world about that set-up...
PS :; I also had a Doug Nash 5 speed trans for " no-lift shifts" ...
[QUOTE=GC996;19468758... Imagine 500 hp in the 996 with no PSM and only an LSD. It would be uncontrollable for the vast majority of folks and would be the second coming of the widow maker.[/QUOTE]
That's called the 996 GT2.
Yep. Widow maker.
Funny story. There was a local high end car dealer that had one of their employees take a 996 GT2 over to the local porsche dealership for some work to be done. For some reason, the kid decided to open it up on a local road. He found himself upside down on top of a fire hydrant.
