ElevenafterNine w/ Charles Navarro on IMSB & RMS

Exceptional interview with Charles on the IMSB, RMS and a little bit about Bore Scoring. Yep, go long the 996 and short the 992. https://youtu.be/2niQohNSHTY?is=30j4mA5p695fDTni

5k miles a year! I'm at a perfect amount! Great listen overall. Thanks for sharing

Yeah, the interview is timely because there are alot of new M96 owners and a boatload of bad information being handed out. Especially on the Facebook forums. Never seen so much bad advice as what's provided on Facebook.

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Yea, I think this is one of the best interviews with Charles I've seen to date. The host Derek kept the discussion lively and moving... great information! You Tube

Yes, very good interview, love the details like: ball speed is important, he wrote about that fact here on the forum in the past. the issues and COST of the ceramic material. And did I hear correctly that he estimated about 20-30% of 996s have had the IMSB upgrade in one form or another? I'm surprised it is so low while being such a well-known high-consequence failure. What does that tells us about the remaining cars without an IMSB upgrade? They are still running? Could it be that these remaining ones don't have the "flaw"? After 25 years, do these non-upgraded cars still need the IMSB replaced?

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No , it means that the 8% ( small single row failure rate as per Eisen V Porsche Class Action Law Suite ) has been reduced to 5.6% -6.4% . and this represent the idiots who think this is an acceptable risk when Industry Standards for this kind of catastrophic engine failure is about 0.00034% ....

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I'm surprised as well, but since we don't know the series of events that can lead to failure, and there could be multiple, we also don't know precisely how to avoid it. The 20%-30% number means that some drivers are getting misinformation about how mechanical parts wear (lots of this), practicing wishful thinking (lots more), practicing "don't repair it until it breaks" (a fair amount) or simply unable to pay for the repair (all the rest). That number may or may not include the thousands of 996s that have gone to the junkyard. There isn't a "flaw" that can be avoided but there is a solution that will bring the failure rate to ~0.0000X% and that is what a lot of us have chosen.

I've had my 2004 C2 Cab for 20 years (second owner) and put 140,000 of its 150,000 miles on it. Still on the original IMS. Been meaning to replace it for 15 years but have not gotten around to it. Now just waiting for any kind of catastrophic failure so that I can have it rebuilt to 4.1L.

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I remember in 2005 having a Customer with a beautiful 2004 Dark Blue 996 Targa that was on his 3rd engine in 10.000 miles due to IMSB failure....The repairs were under warranty that costed $90k to Porsche in 2005 money..( Back then Factory Reman "AT" engines were $7K + labor ) Sounds like you got that guys Luck, because he certainly didn't have any .....lol

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It is interesting to me that back in the day (2008ish) the factory re-man options were $20K - $25K, which seemed like an absurd amount of money for a $100K car less than five years old. Now you're talking $40K for a good rebuild...meaningfully above the overall rate of inflation and nobody seems to care.

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I remember when it was $7500. Then $15k.

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Well, you have the luxury of being the second owner, actually driving the car and hopefully not following the 10k oil change interval that Porsche recommended. More often than not, this seems to be the set of scenarios for the "I have 100k + miles on my original IMS" crowd. It's a small crowd. Most of us are living in the "i'm the 8th owner and have no clue what previous owners did" crowd. I bet that's where many of the failures come from.

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I think up until my CPO expired (~2010 and ~60,000 miles) I was on the recommended 15,000 mile / 2 year interval. Since then, I've been on a 5,000 mile interval (Motul until ~2020 and DT40 since). The dealers must have loved these cars because every time I had it in for service they replaced the "leaking" RMS for a ~$2,500 warranty claim. RMS has not leaked a drop since the warranty expired. My view as a long term owner of the car (and I expect to get another 40 years and 200,000 miles out of her) is that it is an inevitability that I will need to rebuild the engine, maybe twice. That's a $40K - $50K project. Doing the IMS alone is probably a $6,000 job in my market. A lot of people argue that doing the IMS is "cheap insurance" but I think the opposite - it feels like expensive insurance to potentially marginally expand the time before overhaul. It's not like doing the IMS inoculates you from any other kind of failure. And while the failure rate was obviously unacceptably high, I view the overall odds as reasonable. I've been in the market for a 997 Turbo for a while, and one of the things that I find interesting is that the Mezger engine is legendarily "bulletproof". Except, uh, get those coolant pipes welded ASAP or the engine might self destruct at any moment. In my opinion the IMS issue - while real - was overblown and overhyped by porsche snobs who were looking for any reason to hate the first water-cooled 911.

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One problem "waiting for any kind of catastrophic failure" is the engine is damaged beyond repair or at a much higher expensive process. A 996 engine with 150k miles is "great", but also "iffy". Things around the engine wear out, like engine mounts, trans mounts, coolant tanks, exhaust, cats, etc, etc. The "while you are in there" issues" can really add up $. In the last 3 months I have noticed that the top-tier engine builders have raised their prices, and will probably continue to do so, given our current "import policies". Long ago I read that German car makers were required to "maintain or have available" parts for car models for 10 years after ceased production. Meaning you could get parts. 10 years is long gone. Sure, there are a lot of aftermarket 996 parts out there, of different quality levels. But still. parts prices keep going up. Even with a "Pro-Active Rebuild", meaning the car was fine, did OK, lot of miles, no "real giant issues", some of the internals will fail testing to determine if they remain in spec. Do you rebuild to stock 3.6L or go larger? More $$$. How about con-rods not good, or worse, one breaks in some form or other About $3k for new set, less if you use previous owned ones. If broken, what else is damaged? The list goes on... JMO, YMMV

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Absolutely correct. But it's not a Kia Optima we're talking about here. I enjoy the car enough to make it a german ship of theseus, as long as I don't wreck it. Maybe I'll add it all up, but my guess is that after 20 years and 140,000 miles, my all-in cost on acquisition and maintenance is probably ~$100K. If I have to spend another $100,000 for another 20 years and another 140,000 miles...feels like a reasonable deal to me.

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Amen brother. In the same boat with my 996. Its a keeper.

I heard when Jake Raby stopped selling the Guardian IMSB and sold it to a mysterious unknown vendor, I underatnd that some found comfort on Amazon with a plastic glow in the dark statue of Ferdinand that mounted on the dasboard with a small placard that said...... "Beten"

Yup, I saw this interview the other day on my feed. Very insightful and nice to hear from LN Engineering and how they started.

Still don�t fully understand the difference between the LN engineering retrofit kit vs the solution. My newly acquired car has only 30k on the retrofit kit but it�s been replaced 10 years ago. If oil is still reaching the bearing - then why does it have to be replaced every 5 years ? Am I pretty much driving a ticking time even though the IMS was replaced. 2002 C4S with 173k miles.

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The solution is oil pressure fed and a different type of bearing (more like a main bearing) so doesn't wear out. Retrofit is just another bearing similar to original, the service interval is to avoid failure. I'm sure most will long live past the time limits though, much like some of the porsche originals. But LN want your money lol, and to stop your engine being toast!

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At 173k miles, I think a dose of reality is needed. Engine has done it's job for a long time, a lot of work, so maybe think about it. If car is a "keeper", do something before it breaks. Sure, a little expensive, but not as much as "when engine fails" in some catastrophic way. A "failure" could turn the entire car into a pile of junk, an "old roller". JMO. YMMV

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All cars are ticking time bombs as they age. Pick any manufacturer you want. Parts will wear and fail, so money will need to be spent to either prevent the failure by replacing or upgrading parts or by rebuilding it after failure. I wouldn't loose any sleep. The 996 is pretty damm easy to keep running strong. But you have alot of miles on your 996, so you are going to have to be aware of what items to refresh with OEM parts and what items to upgrade for more longevity. In answer to your question on the LN IMSB options. Yes, the Solution is a permanent part that will not need to be replaced due to its design, whereas the Retro is not designed as a permanent fix, but is designed as a service item that will need to be refreshed. There are plenty of threads here on Rennlist and videos on YouTube from LN/FSI/PCA discussing design differences and application. Best advice I can give you is stay off of the Facebook forums. Its the blind leading the blind.