BEST REMAN 996 ENGINE?

Advise would be most beneficial on who to chose for a 3.4 to 3.6 rebuild after engine failure? of couse it would be great to know what the overall cost would be on delivery. thanks Mark

There are two routes that I would suggest. The first is purchasing a reman. engine through a Porsche dealership. Cost is around 13-15,000. Engine is 'new' from the throttle body to the exhaust ports. Comes with a 2 yr unlimited mileage warranty. The second is Jake Raby's rebuild program which inludes upgraded internal engine components to mitigate some of the common issues including RMS, cylinder cracking, etc. I beleive the cost is around 16,000. He uses your core engine so prices can vary depending on what failure you have experienced. You can find more details at his website, flat 6 innovations.

Do you think at $15-16k this is really worth doing? Wouldn't you be farther ahead selling the car to Jake (he's posted that he's seeking donor cars) and finding another car to buy? With the cars worth $20-$25k i question the validity of going through this on a stock '911. If you've got $30,000 invested in racing mods it might be a different story.

Disregarding price, I'd trust anything coming out of Jake's shop - he knows his stuff.

If anyone can come up with a realistic way of looking at this, I'd like to hear it. Is Porsche unique in making replacement/rebuilt engines so preposterously expensive in relation to the value of the car? What happens when you blow up the motor in your 2005 Corvette (worth about the same as a Mk 1 996)? Think it costs $16k? And a 996 with a recent engine doesn't seem to bring the significantly higher price that the replacement cost would warrant, either. For the above reasons, I can't really see owning one of these cars without an aftermarket warranty that will cover a dead engine. The math just doesn't work.

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Based on the ridiculous costs associated with a new or rebuilt 3.4L, I'd seriously consider going with a new Porsche-sourced 3.6L engine recognizing that the conversion might be tricky. Somebody just has to come out with a professional no-fuss/no-muss turnkey conversion kit to make this happen. A 3.6 conversion + costs associated with making it happen might be less than going with a 3.4 reman.

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Actually, it's the risk of an aftermarket warranty that doesn't work. They don't sell these things in order to lose money on them. I'm sympathetic to people who buy them and respect that choice, but in a purely rational sense they are a bad bet. The odds are overwhelmingly stacked in favour of the house, by definition. The whole 'value' thing is totally emotional (Daniel Kahneman won a Nobel Prize for proving this). The "more than it's worth" argument is only valid if the next thing you're going to do is sell the car. Accountants call this 'crystallizing your losses'. Otherwise, the real value in the car lies in its future usefulness to you . It can make perfect sense to invest in a car twice what it's worth, if you then get ten years of enjoyment out of it. People have to forget about theoretical resale value, and forget about being embarrassed by people on message boards, and just ask themselves what they want from their cars. 70% of the Porsches ever built are still on the road, and only a tiny handful are worth anywhere close to what their owners spent on them over the years. Most of the rest still thought it was 'worth it'. A car isn't an investment. In the case of a Porsche, it's a matter of exchanging money for pleasure. I will never confess what I've spent on my car, but I'll tell you two things: It's far more than I could get by selling it, and to me it's been worth it.

Great post BruceP. I have a Yukon Denali with 175k in miles I don't particularly care for but when it goes I'll throw another engine in it and keep on going. Regarding the Porsche that I love, when the engine goes at $15k I'll move on. My personal decision but I can't ignore those numbers.

You are of course correct, but I think most people would prefer to have a running car on an ongoing basis, as well as a car that one could sell if need be. If insurance (aftermarket warranty) doesn't work, maybe the best plan is a maintenance savings account? That would avoid the psychologically damaging situation of needing to put $16k into a car just to sell it. But that's exactly what insurance is for, isn't it? Taking an expensive but unlikely risk, and spreading it among a group of people who all pay a little to avoid paying a lot if bad luck happens to strike them.

I just did a reman 3.4L in a '99 C4. It was painful, but every time I drive it, I smile. I looked at every possibility from coast to coast. The factory warranty for 2yrs, plus getting almost everything "on" the engine "new" (alternator, AC Compressor, etc.), made that option the best IMHO. I plan to drive a lot of miles for the next two years... I knew that I would be financially "upside down" on the car in a major way. The overall value for resale of the car was not a "reason" to complete the fix. Having a fun car that I like and want to drive for a while were "good enough" reasons for me. Now that my car is a long-term keeper (5+ years), rather than a quick-flip (as previously planned: 2-3 years), I threw a couple more bucks at some of the "creature comforts" it to dial it in...new exhaust (PSE), new sound system (Focal speakers, subwoofer, etc), Laser Jammer, hard wired radar detector. Over the next couple years, I'll work on suspension and track wheels...and as many track days as possible.

I'd recommend the factory reman 3.4L motor. You do NOT HAVE TO GOT TO DEALERSHIP to get a factory reman engine with a warranty. Reputable indy's can install these motors for less. The engine will be less money, and the labor will be less money. Just make sure you get a factory rebuilt motor. These motors were not always so expensive, and the cars were not always worth so little... When these cars were only 2-5 years old and worth $50K, a reman 3.4L motor was $11k INSTALLED! The price has almost doubled as the cars value was cut in half

Yeah: This is the very subject that keep me up at night! I keep thinking about trading foran 80's series 911 but just cannot pull the trigger. Thanks, 99C2

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My 99' has a factory reman that was installed by an Indy right before I bought it from a local, small used car dealer this Summer. As a matter of fact, it only has 2K miles on the reman. Now the car all of a sudden has an overheat issue if you let it just sit at idle in commuting traffic for instance. If you gently rev the engine to 2K rpm with the car in neutral while sitting still, it cools back to normal - no need for airflow over the radiators. I took it to the dealer (Porsche Arlington) and they replaced the lo-speed cooling fan for 600 bucks - did not fix it. They said if I had an engine 'problem' Porsche would not cover it because the engine was NOT installed by a dealer and they just scratched their heads and then concluded that they did not want to troubleshoot it. I talked to Jake and sent it to Flat6 and he said it looked like it had been overheated based on the tops of the pistons being oily and said he'd rebuild it for me for 8800 dollars+ or quickly find a buyer for the car for $15.5K dollars. Jake would not troubleshoot the car to determine the cooling issue. I balked and had the car shipped BACK to me and now it is at my trusted local Indy - the place I should have took it in the first place. I sent it to Flat6 based on their rep and am ambivalent now about sending it or anything to Flat 6 again. On the other hand the Indy could come back and say "Bad engine..." Then I'm scrod because the 2yr Porsche warranty is not worth a crap unless the engine is installed by a dealer. Only trouble is with my car is that it runs as strong as an ox and would easily run circles around my two previous 993's - so I don;t get it. I talked to yet another big Porsche Indy while the car was at Flat6 and they said likely my car is likely fixable real fast or Flat6 would not have been quick to "organize a sale to an interested party..." So we'll let the cards play out and see what the local guys say.

buy the engine from a dealer and have them install it... you spend so much on engine already... and now you want to save $1K by an indy install? huh?

I read in a recent thread a post -- within the last couple of months -- about an indy shop that installed a factory engine ordered through a dealership that found the engine defective. The indy shop had to jump through hoops to prove to the dealer the engine was defective but it was successful and got the engine replaced under the parts warranty. I wish I had more than hearsay to offer you, but the posting read like the truth. At least I think you need to do a bit of research to find out just what warranty there is regarding an engine bought from a dealership and presumably ultimately bought from PCNA. Sincerely, Macster.

Mr. Tribbie, Your engine is damaged and I am experienced enough to see the engine's symptoms, leak down numbers, compression test numbers and visual characteristics to clearly see this. The aroma of burned coolant and oil emits from both tailpipes on top of the low numbers and noises that the engine is making. With the engine having been damaged it would have been near impossible to continue to track down the cause of the overheating situation, and it would have been worthless because the engine had already been damaged. All that would have happened is a draining of your wallet and a waste of my time, because the issue is mechanical and will not repair it's self. If the overheating issue is solved you still have an engine that has been fractured. So, let me get this straight.. I receive your car and make it a priority to troubleshoot only 4 days after the loss of my Father. I then tell you what the numbers are and give you several options and then I tear up the bill for my work to try to be fair to you and I then end up with a negative post here on the forums? Thats not fair! I didn't charge you a dime for my work and I didn't charge you for the inconvenience the shippers posed on two separate days when they were trying to pick the car up after hours, expecting my Employee to work overtime to come meet them at 2030. Its odd how you left out the critical aspect of the story that refers to my company not charging you a dime for ANYTHING that was done to the car, not storage, not anything. I'll think twice before helping the next person like yourself thats in a bad position, has been screwed and is looking for someone to blame. I attempted to treat you as I'd expect to be treated, but obviously you didn't appreciate the 300.00 invoice that **I** directed to be thrown away because we didn't do any effective work for you or the car. We are not the bad guys here, don't shoot the messenger- I don't appreciate the fact that I received a negative review for **TRYING** to be fair to you because I felt sorry for you and the car with the amount of money that had already been wasted. The issue you have effects both banks of cylinders and pistons. This is what complicates the situation because there is NO WAY to remove the bank 1-3 pistons to repair the damage that is leading to the low compression and oil contamination on those cylinders without 95% engine disassembly. Anyone who has assembled an M96 engine will know that this is not a simple repair to be done correctly. When we were talking on the phone you stated that you just wanted to get the car repaired "good enough" to sell it. I do not support activities that are anything less than a 100% complete, correct and extensive repair that will be fair to the next Porsche owner that purchases the car. Too many people (mostly first time Porsche Owners) are buying these cars with patched up engines, experiencing failures and then HATING the Porsche for it when its not the car's fault. I will not be party to that, and that more than likely pissed you off and if it did, well so be it. I have been a Porsche enthusiast all my life and that blood goes deeper than business. My 8,800.00 quote was for a 100% complete repair of the engine that would supply the expected longevity and reliability to the new purchaser, or to you if you decided to retain the vehicle. It would not be a quick fix that would be cheap for you and would leave them on the side of the road later facing a 15K repair bill. (thats what cheap M96 fixes do) Would you rather I'd spent two days trying to find the source of the overheating, then torn into the engine to then find that it had mechanical issues as a result of the overheating? Would you have rather my tab been THREE THOUSAND dollars rather than THREE HUNDRED? The 3,000.00 tab would not have been thrown away. I didn't play the game this way because I knew the engine was hurt and it wasn't worth time and money to go further. As for having a "Buyer": Yes I have over a dozen people waiting to purchase a car like yours with a bad engine. These people contact me looking for such a vehicle to convert to a track car. These people do not care if the engine is blown to hell or not; because they are going to buy a complete package from me and have it installed before they ever touch the car for the first time. If the engine needed a fast repair they would not care because it would be subject to a full reconstruction. I had someone 20 miles away with cash money in their hand to buy the car KNOWING the engine had issues and he was OK with that. You could have dealt directly with him as he is already in my queue to build an engine and he doesn't even own a car to put it into! That means that if the potential buyer would have bought your car the engine would not have been repaired, so the assumption of your local shop (who obviously thought I was trying to screw you) was incorrect. Did you tell them I spent the majority of a day worth of time on the car's troubleshooting for free? When people throw good money after bad with several other shops and then come our way its fairly easy for them to vent their frustrations toward us when I don't tell them what they want to hear or sugarcoat the situation. Even with poorly sealing rings and issues the 996 will outperform the 993 in most situations, I'd expect it to as long as it wasn't misfiring on a pair of cylinders. No one here was trying to take advantage of you or take your money, thats why we did our work for free. I don't think I have ever seen someone argue about free work before, but that may be because I don't extend that sort of service to just anyone off the street. I'll be contacting you offline.

Jake my GF's been overheating more and more these days and doesn't appear to be running on all cylinders. If I ship her back to you would you leak her, check her compression, and see if there's an "aroma of burned coolant and oil emitting from her tailpipe"? Oh and would you do that all for free please?.... Jake your post was well written, concise, and to the point. I've built 50+ homes in Beverly Hills, Brentwood, etc. over my 32 year career and it always amazes me how ungreateful people can be. Oh and it's usually the husbands...

JR, Send her on over.. I'll do some mods to her after the repairs :-) Yes, ungrateful people **** me off, then of course you have the miserable people who are looking for something to whine about.. Mr. Tribbie hasn't been answering my calls all day long, he obviously doesn't want explain himself over the phone; he'd rather hide behind the monitor. He obviously never thought I'd see his post. Wrong. In his post he mentioned that he'd never send any more business our way or use us again- Trust me, I wouldn't put air in his tire on the side of the road if I saw him with a flat after the way he threw us under the Bus! The only way around trouble is straight through the middle of it. Oh, and he isn't our Customer, so he CAN'T complain.. He has no account here, it was all written off as "complimentary". He didn't have to ask for that.

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The work by the indy is warrantied at the shop that did the work....not another dealership. You were also the 3rd owner since the motor was installed. The owner that had the motor installed, then the used car dealership, and then you. Not many warranties transfer in that manner. I can tell you as an undeniable fact that reputable indys can install a factory reman motor into your car and it carries a warranty. A 2 year PARTS warranty from Porsche, and then the warranty the indy offers on their labor.

Jake - call again if you want to discuss anything that you taking issue with. You can call me on my office line - maybe you'll post that information for public consumption as well. Obviously there are enough folks on this Forum that will 'side' with you - the "expert" on the 996 engine. That's ok, and I don't really care - I'm the customer. Also: your associate Dean spent a half-day 'researching' warranty information from Porsche regarding remanufactured Porsche engines. Strange that he could not come up with the information that casual lay-persons on this Forum seem to have in a split-second. I did not ask you to adjust my invoice or 'not charge me' - or are you going to inaccurately characterize that as well??? BTW: there's no 'aroma of burnt oil or coolant' from my 996 tailpipes.

Hmmm, Best Reman 996 engine? The one you didn't have to pay for

There's obviously something I'm not getting about this story. It seems to me that any mechanic has a right to his opinion about what's wrong, and any customer has the right to take his business elsewhere if he doesn't like the answer. Why so much heat? You got your car back, didn't pay a cent, and it's with another mechanic you like better. I've heard a lot sadder Porsche stories than that.

I agree with Bruce here. Could it be something as simple as a bubble in the cooling system and needs to be burped or replacing a new reservoir cap?

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OK so your Indy's had the car for a few days now, what does he say?....

Then someone doesn't know what coolant smells like when it has been exposed to combustion. I was sitting in my office upstairs about 40' away when the car pulled into the shop. It idled until it got up to the temperature that we use for hot compression and leak down tests and I could smell the aroma of cooked coolant at my Desk. AsI walked down stairs it was notably worse and there were no other cars in the shop and running that day. . Hold on a minute. You are the one who went out of your way to post negative statements about my company "for public consumption" first. Had you not "gone there" none of this would be occurring. You had no reason to throw us under the bus. No, it doesn't take a rocket scientist that you are off base with your negative statements. I went out of the way to help you and thought that I'd receive at least some sort of positive reaction from that, but instead I got a knife in the back. If people "side" with me its simply because your actions warrant it. . Imagine that. You are one of those people who feels the customer is always right, even if they become complete jerks for no reason. You had work given to you for free from an engine specialist and you still complain about it? Excuse me for not telling you what you wanted to hear or for not assisting you with "passing the buck" of your engine problem on to the (unsuspecting) next guy. You aren't really the customer, you have no account here and I have never charged you for anything. WOW, you can really find something to complain about. That was 1/2 day of research that Dean did for you that you also WERE NOT CHARGED FOR!! Your welcome. Here we do not deal with Porsche or Porsche reman engines. We do not sell them and generally do not work on them, except to take them apart and re-create them. We are not a normal INDY shop doing engine swaps, clutch jobs and service work- we do the things that no one else is capable of doing or that no one else is willing to do. This is because we are specialists. We don't deal with warranties, or Porsche or any of the other things that general shops that work on general aspects of Porsches deal with. We don't want to and we generally don't need to because we have our own engine program. Whe Dean spent his time trying to gather info for you he did so with a higher echelon of the company that is one of my contacts. We were going to try to get you a bit of a "favor" due to the circumstances that you have had to endure thus far. Dean made these calls to find out specifics about the program so he could give you ACCURATE information about the chain of events that you'd be expecting if a warranty claim was filed. I can see now that its a good thing that we didn't have success in getting you a replacement engine as you'd surely complain about some aspect of it. Yet again the time that Dean spent was not charged to you and we retained a lot of information that will help others that may have similar situations in the future. In case you didn't know it, nothing stays the same and policies change, never assume anything. You didn't have to ask me to tear the invoice up. We did nothing for you and you had no desire to go further with my company after you found out that I had no desire to partially repair the engine (Due to liability reasons and the risks associated with our reputation should the "patch" break). Since I did nothing and you had been screwed over and over again I instructed Dean to destroy the invoice. I can see now that I did the right thing, imagine how bad you would have complained had I actually charged you... Anyway, I'd concur that an obstruction in the cooling system was creating the issue that created the elevated temperatures that lead to the engine damage that Mr. Tribbie's Porsche experienced. At this point he has more to worry about than coolant temperature elevations. The primary issue was the coolant temp elevations, but now the secondary issue has overcome the primary in severity. Even if the coolant temp issue is solved today the engine still has uneven compression readings, internal noises that are not normal and that aroma of burned coolant emitting from the tailpipes. BTW- If your INDY doesn't know what hot coolant smells like you should find a new one, because he is the last person that belongs in your engine bay. Sorry, thats just the facts. I apologize to the bystanders and I apologize for taking this thread off topic. Hopefully the thread will get back to normal now. Good luck with your situation

Jake, you don't know me, but please take some unsolicited advice. As you posted in an earlier thread, you don't like to get drawn in to internet pissing matches. Well, you just did. You may be 100% right here--but even assuming you are--you can't "win" a discussion like this if it gets into a back and forth. Your first post, stripped of all emotion and laying out the facts as you saw them, should have been your last. The last word means nothing, and you can never get it anyway on a web forum. You don't have to debate every line. Look at how Steve Weiner or Mike or Todd from AWE handle disputes.

Rallyjon, Thanks for the advice... In the past 15 years and around 115,000 combined posts on forums I have learned a fair amount about how to handle situations like this one... Fact is Marlon's rebuttal post simply outlined more information that needed to be clarified and thats what I did. My entire life revolves around the company I have built and this is much more than just a company or a "Job" to me. I have worked hard to attain and maintain my reputation and no matter what I refuse to allow someone to state inaccurate information in a negative light about my company, my employees or me. My intense personality shines through in a situation like this- it always has and always will because thats just who I am. I seldom hear complaints, maybe twice per year on average, because we operate fairly, firmly and honestly. Excuse the fact that I really don't know how to handle a complaint from someone that received free diagnostics, free recommendations and free consulting....

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I completely disagree. When someone's pissing on your reputation, your business, or your personal integrity you fire both barrels with 00. Jake kept his cool, he just countered point by point....

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+1

Unfortunately, it's a good deal more complicated than that. But you're right, it certainly seems like the right thing to do at the time, and it's very cathartic.

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Sounds like you know what really went down. Care to share? I thought Jake provided more than enough info to state his case with no counter response and would have no issues with shipping my car down to him in the future.

My post stated exactly what happened with the entire saga from my viewpoint. I only left out the aspects that pertained to the nightmarish inconvenience that we had to deal with when shipping the car back to the Owner through the shipper that he chose. From what I understand from "other conversations" this car and it's owner have quite a history together and lots lead up to the reason why the car was shipped to me. When the car left my possession the Owner seemed to feel that everything was fair. There were zero conflicts between my staff and the Owner while the car was here at all. Nothing negative was said, he only seemed a little "ticked off" when I refused to make a repair to the engine that was less than a full blown comprehensive recreation. Of course he had to wait till later to post his disappointment with my company to others- He never stated any of that to me. Thats what pisses me off. If you have a problem with me, say it to me and we'll work it out- otherwise you just created an enemy.

Here in the Google age, I can't fault someone for not wanting to turn the other cheek. Search is agnostic about the truth. That said, I wish everybody would holster their weapons now. People have disagreements with mechanics every day, whereas there are precious few people on these message boards that know a lot about this engine. I'd hate to see one chased off.

I found the post thanks to Google Alerts.... Had I left things as Marlon stated my company would have received a ding on it's reputation that was uncalled for. Getting back on topic: People need to realize that there are vast differences in reman engines based on who is doing the work, the parts they are changing and what they are replacing them with. We continue to see "reman" engines comprised of a majority of used parts sold for cheap prices. Some of these are sold with used AOS' installed along with used water pumps and other critical items. Many are replacing piston rings without addressing cylinder issues and in a couple of instances not even replacing timing chains.

True, there is some crap out there being sold as "remans".

I have heard that even the Porsche reman engines aren't all that 'new' in that they look shiny on the outside, but it's not all thorough on the inside. I always take this stuff w/ a grain of salt or a box, but it's something to be aware of.

As the core engines they are having returned have more and more time and miles on them the reman engines are seeing those effects. There will be a day when the reman program goes away, or the engines become so expensive that they aren't feasible.

I'm lost as to what a reman. engine is exactly? Was it an engine that failed that they repaired it enough to run or was it brought up to date will all the latest parts internally?

Bottom line up front: Local Indy is performing simple troubleshooting on the Cooling system. Found that the t-stat was not performing properly. Replaced it, but there still an issue with the cooling system and they will look at the water pump on Monday. Discussion: Indy told me today in a detailed conversation that had anyone gotten under the car to check the cooling system with the car running and hot they would have noticed that there was no hot water going to the radiators - in other words, for some reason, hot coolant is not circulating. The radiators were stone cold. That is why they then checked the t-stat - (just like you would on your Dad's V-8 Impala) - same principle. They put my new 160 degree t-stat that I sourced from a Flat6 distributor and the original t-stat in a pan on a hot plate and heated the pan while observing a thermometer and noted some anomolies with the old t-stat (incomplete opening I believe), but I still don't have coolant circulation like I should. (yeah - I know, a few of you will swear and be darned that the 160 t-stat is not going to do a darn thing for me - but it won't hurt either and I can make a more thorough assessment of the 160 stat during daily driving later) No other issues with the engine so far - starts right up and runs like a champ. No smells - no fumes - just...... no cooling . For now. Could be worse - could be easy. Hopefully a weak water pump.

Like I had said on the phone to you at the very beginning, before the car ever was delivered to me, I would bet that someone left a cap plug or rag shoved in the main coolant transfer line when the engine was installed. These rags or plugs are used when the old engine is pulled to keep the coolant from seeping on the technician while the job is being done. They can be left in place and block the majority of flow to the radiators and the rest of the cooling system. Or the water pump is not moving the coolant at a volume thats effective enough..That could be the water pump, and it could be the noise I hard that I never investigated more deeply. Either way, the engine failed two tests and it had noises that weren't normal when it arrived here, so even if you get the cooling issue solved you still have more to worry about. Once I noted there were issues I didn't care about finding the reason why the engine was getting hot- I didn't want to run the engine any longer as I didn't want it to finally fail while it was under my care and control. We actually pushed it out of the shop and never fired it again until it was loaded on the shipper's rig. Put it on a chassis dyno after the repairs are made to the cooling system and it'll be down on power, it has to be with at least 3 cylinders with low compression and only one with the correct compression and less than 5% leak down. Maybe they'll find the smoking gun, I hope they treat you right.. Heck maybe they'll tear the invoice up as well.

Hello Jake, I have been a mechanic for 39 years and I know that sweet sickly smell of burnt coolant out of an exhaust on startup -- telling you it's seeped into the combustion area during the cooldown process. Presently I could not do my own rebuild. My car -- a 2002 Targa has a value here in Australia of about $95,000 so it's worthwhile rebuilding the engine. How do us Aussies go about getting a "Flat 6 rebuild" with all of the upgrades? Thanks

Heres my only problem with your methodology Jake: You say its not worth troubleshooting the overheating with the engine damage. But lets say you get the motor rebuilt the appropriate way, and then you have to start troubleshooting overheating on a brand new engine. At that point, you may subject that new engine to damage as a result of an imperfect cooling system. However, I agree with the rest of your posts and Its good to see a shop that wants it done right.

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Thats a very good point and had I been tasked with the repair of this engine I would have disassembled the entire cooling system, purged and flushed it before the new engine would have been installed. Thats part of my installation procedure ANY time that the cooling system is in question. I can't afford a single failure and I don't give them a chance to occur, so I take a lot of measures to protect the investment of time and money that we have in every engine; as well as the vehicle owner. I do this type of work to cover my tail, so I don't charge for the added labor or time. Mr. Gibney, We ship to Australia routinely and I already have engines from my company in service there. Just send us an email :-)

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jake - no one asked or hinted to you to reduce the throubleshooting charges on my invoice. When you emailed me the invoice all it said was "Troublshooting on failed engine" or something like that. I called you and simply asked you to tell me what was wrong with the car and to document it on the Invoice - you very quickly told me that you were not going to charge me anything. You also said that your mechanic had just quit and the only person there was Dean. Either you or Dean also said that my car was about the last one that you could take because you all were getting ready to gear up for your 'Racing Season' - made me a little nervous now that I think about it. How many mechanincs do you employ in your outfit and where are they trained or what are their credintials. Heck - what's your credentials???

Is there some point at which this exchange ends? It is verging on the petty and nasty. Perhaps just agree that there was some unfortunate miscommunication and leave it at that...

The exchange has ended as far as I am concerned. I feel we should agree to disagree and just put this behind us, no need to further waste bandwidth with the back and forth exchanges.