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YOUR RESEARCHHelp Larry find a Turbo!!
Reported or suspected cause
before i can recommend you buy it."
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Reported cause · Original poster
You need to find out what this problem is before I can recommend you buy it."
Leading evidence: 'before i can recommend you buy it."' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'before i can recommend you buy it."' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check 2nd gear issues during a ppi' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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It is as tight as it was the day it was delivered.
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It comes equipped with factory GPS navigation, heated seats, three spoke steering wheel, PSM ( Porsche Stability Management ), Xenon headlamps and high pressure washers, suede headliner, custom installed radar detection system, premium sound with remote CD changer, full power seat package with driver's seat memory, electric sun roof, sport exhaust, painted center crests, aluminum trimmed shift ****, hand brake and shift boot, aluminum door sills and much more.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I've used the hell out of my 16mm socket on the P-car
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Suspected cause · Original poster
Sol said that it would cost probably a couple of hundred bucks to buy the parts, they are pretty cheap, and about an hour's worth of work to clean up the bottom, and replace all the clips, etc that were missing or damaged.
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Suggestion · Original poster
Then, if the car passes, and I don't see why it won't - but that's the purpose of the PPI - I'll drive over, drop a check on the owner, grab the title and run like a bandit.
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It comes equipped with factory GPS navigation, heated seats, three spoke steering wheel, PSM ( Porsche Stability Management ), Xenon headlamps and high pressure washers, suede headliner, custom installed radar detection system, premium sound with remote CD changer, full power seat package with driver's seat memory, electric sun roof, sport exhaust, painted center crests, aluminum trimmed shift ****, hand brake and shift boot, aluminum door sills and much more.
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Suspected cause · Original poster
Sol said that it would cost probably a couple of hundred bucks to buy the parts, they are pretty cheap, and about an hour's worth of work to clean up the bottom, and replace all the clips, etc that were missing or damaged.
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Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Outcome without a verified action link
This thread didn't help at all (I may have gotten it first here - Thanks, Larry), nor did watching an awesome "official Porsche Turbo" youtube video yesterday.
OK, by popular demand,
I am hereby enlisting the help of my Rennlisters to help me find a Turbo. For the buddy (or buddette) that points me at a car that I didn't know about, I will provide a finder's fee.
I am looking for a 2001 - 2003 996 TT Coupe.
Mileage < 35K, but I will go up to 45K
Cost $40,000 or less - that is the settlement with my insurance company for my wrecked 996 Targa. I'm holding back a little for oil change, clear bra, etc.
Colors - Absolutely NO BLACK, Not really interested in the many shades of grey or silver, but for the right car with a sharp interior, I might accept one. Favorite color is Speed Yellow. Or any other color that looks bright - Guards Red (or other reds) Bright Blue (midnight blue is too close to black), even White, with a pretty interior. I have seen red interiors (ugly) and a white turbo that had a grey and metropol blue interior, that was ugly too.
Features - 6 speed manual. I like turbo twist wheels - they are nice and easy to keep clean. I understand that these cars came fairly well equipped. Bose Sound, CD Changer, Heated Seats, White faced gauges, Clear Bra, PSM, Sport Seats with painted backs, etc etc. Fairly new tires, brakes, clutch would be nice. High quality paint job - no dings, chips or scratches. No accidents in its history. Need a back seat, so no roll bars installed in rear. Single owner with maintenance records is, of course, ideal but nearly impossible to find. Two owner cars don't bother me. Five owner cars I will likely steer clear from. (Why was it passed around, why did 3 owners have it for less than 1 year each? Portends Problems.) Not sure what else to look for - I'm open to suggestions.
Distance - I would prefer a car that is less than 1,000 miles from Chicago. I want to go pick it up, rather than have it trucked in.
I am looking on Auto Trader and Cars.com daily. To help me, look to your local independent wrench, or a friend needing to get out of his car. Those are people that I don't know about. I am a cash buyer, and will give a deposit by PayPal upon my being interested. I will pay for a PPI before committing to purchase.
TIA for all of your help and suggestions. I have 30 days to buy another car, or the insurance company isn't obligated to reimburse me for the sales tax.
Larry
I'd post this on 6speedonline.com in the 996TT forum. They get a lot of traffic on there for this car and I think you will have better luck on that forum.
I called on it yesterday. It was sold, and was being loaded on a truck to go to Chicago. It was shipping to the right city, just the wrong person.
larry
I still cant believe you took a volvo tractor trailer out of service and lived to tell about it...nonetheless walked away!!
GL with the 996TT search....what about a gt3...
Thanks, did see it. The car's a bit boring grey/grey, but the price and mileage are right. EXCEPT that it had an accident in March, 2008. No one seems to know what was damaged or what was fixed. Now, maybe that means that the accident was minor, and the bodywork was excellent. But I have no way of knowing.
larry
Larry -
Here is a dark blue 2001 996 tt, six speed at a high end dealer in Westchester NY.
Midnight blue over savannah beige
46k miles
asking 44k.
Here's the dealer's description:
"2001 Porsche 911 Turbo finished in Midnight Blue Metallic with Savanah Beige full leather interior. Driven 46K miles, this 6 speed SPOTLESS Turbo is without a doubt one of the best driving Turbos we have seen in a long while. It has been extremely well maintained by a well know local Porsche shop. It is as tight as it was the day it was delivered. It comes equipped with factory GPS navigation, heated seats, three spoke steering wheel, PSM ( Porsche Stability Management ), Xenon headlamps and high pressure washers, suede headliner, custom installed radar detection system, premium sound with remote CD changer, full power seat package with driver's seat memory, electric sun roof, sport exhaust, painted center crests, aluminum trimmed shift ****, hand brake and shift boot, aluminum door sills and much more. This Turbo HAS to be driven to see just how incredible it is. Priced to sell quickly with a low reserve. All serious realistic offers will be considered and should be directed to Mark Starr @ [phone removed]."
The ad has lots of pics, and the car looks awesome.
Here's the link.
http://hunting-ridge-motorsports.ebi...d-5518845.html
Good luck with the search.
-Mawgie
Ivan:
Thanks for locating this. Two things - Too many miles, I would like to stay under 45K. And it's a Tip. I really enjoy driving a stick, so I'm still looking.
larry
Pas: I am always concerned with any car that I see for sale with 5 or more owners, and some who owned it for 2 - 3 months. Someone is trading out their problems - want to avoid that.
RE: The speed yellow 2002 in Michigan. The guy is the second owner, wants $46.5 K for the car with 37K miles. Sounds not so bad, but then he says that the secondary air pump is not working, but that the car runs just fine without it, and that he was told that it didn't need replacing. I told him if that was the issue, I would want it fixed, so take $4K off the price. He said he would rather keep it.
larry
Azaytsev - The speed yellow car is exactly what I am looking for. My problem with this particular car is that it is a 2001 with 64K miles for $52K. I found a 2003 equipped just like it with 24K miles selling for just under $50K. Good catch, though.
larry
The first car is a tip, and the 2nd one appears to be a really good deal... Interesting the 996tt market is all over the place. That said (as evident above) I think you'll be able to match your criteria.
Kent - Thanks for finding this car. They really want too much for it. I can buy a 2003 TT with 24K miles for $49,800 in Speed Yellow. Between the car you found and the Speed Yellow for the same money, I'd take the Yellow one. My problem is that I am kind of limited to $42K or so. My insurance settlement is only $40,000 by the time I back off my deductible, and I don't have a lot of room above that.
But thanks for looking for this car for me.
larry
I know that there are local dealers all over that have these cars in their lots. But not everyone is listing their cars on the internet - AutoTrader, etc. So, my hope is that this will help me extend my reach. Also, it's kind of fun to look for a car. I appreciate everyone's efforts.
larry
Boots: Thanks for finding these. I'm really NOT interested in a Tip, even though the color on that one is my ideal. The second one I am spending a lot of time drooling over. I talked to them about this car yesterday. The issue is that they want just south of $50 for the car. Might be worth it, but my budget has to stop someplace. I've kind of put a ceiling on the car purchase at $42 or $43. Can't stretch to $50.
larry
I hear you Larry. I wish I was in your shoes searching. I have had the bug to upgrade in the past month or so.
I love car shopping. Take your time and you will find the right car soon
This is a great thread - I am casually looking as well so keep'm coming
Larry, you have nothing to worry about - Im looking for an dark gray car
fyi, the first one is on ebay with no reserve
Larry, I know you said that you wanted a 6 speed. I came across that tip that was way within your price range. The photos of it area awesome, although mileage a tad high.
Larry-
Noy sure if you saw the one I posted up for you. Post #15.
It's right where you want in terms of equipment, miles and price.
Blue the wrong color?
Good luck with your search - David
David:
I DID see the post. That is the kind of referral I'm looking for, a car that I wouldn't know about otherwise. It is a pretty car, well equipped, and in my price range. I am talking to them, and have negotiated a bit on the price. None of these guys are willing to move much on the cars. But, that being said, the really nice ones that are in this price range don't last long.
So far, you're the leader of the band. Thanks for the sharp eyes.
larry
Phil - YES, if I had unlimited dollars, I would buy that one. It really is the color that I want, a 2003 with really low mileage. But, you know, you've got to stop someplace. And, unfortunately, I put the brakes on it there.
larry
Kent:
I've looked at this car. It isn't as clean as it seems. First, grey/grey is just boring, but the price and mileage look good till you look a bit deeper. Look at the pictures of the cockpit. The driver's seat looks like the leather is cut in the middle of the bottom cushion. In addition. the buttons are missing from the seat controls. Someone wasn't taking care of this car. That, in addition to the fact that the car was in an accident in March, 2008, and has had 4 owners.
Just too many things to make this car a viable candidate. But thanks for showing it to me.
larry
While multiple owners and short stints between owners should be a red flag, these things shouldn't necessarily rule out a car. Case in point: I've got a 4 owner 2001 996 that is in ridiculously great shape that I bought 2 months ago. I'm probably going to sell it because now is not the right time for me to own a car like this, not because it has problems. With the prices as low as they are on these cars, I think it is easier for guys like me to make a hasty decision to buy a new toy, only to have more practical thoughts later. Just something to consider.
Larry -
Check out this section from Excellence magazine, a buyers guide for Turbos.
http://www.excellence-mag.com/resour...uide/186787951
As you will see there are some differences between years from 2001 on. Thought this might help in your decision making.
Larry -
Your money is burning a hole in my pocket. Have you gotten any further with that blue Turbo in Westchester, NY I linked you to? My (comparatively uninformed) thought was that, if everything checked out, it might be a decent buy at 40-42k.
Best of luck with your search - David
Yeah I noticed he was a little high on that stuff
And the wood is nasty but the fact is it's a Turbo 996 for under 40K and it looks clean. Hell if we didn't just buy our 02 I may have gone and looked at this one haha.
You can vaguely see 77106 miles on the odometer. The description says only 7K per year, so that is in the range for a 10+ year old car. Nice looking ride.
Additional notes from CL: May have to meet the seller on that desert road. Bring cash (unmarked $20 please).
Mileage is a bit high for me at 77,000. I'd like to find something with 35K or less. I guess for the right $$ I would go up to 50K, but 77k is just too big a number for me to get over.
thanks anyway, it seems to be a lot of car.
larry
I was in the book store the other day while I upgraded my speakers to Focals, and saw the production numbers for the 996. Very interesting, especially how few Turbos were produced for each model year. You're getting a special vehicle, Larry.
26K miles for 40K Sounds like a steal. But why were so many Turbo buyers so boring when they picked the colors?
http://miami.craigslist.org/mdc/ctd/2153574564.html
this triple black is nice...... if this one checks out, winner!
though, I dont like that the cover on the battery is missing? front end damage?.. looks like some thing is going on in the frunk, hence the odd shape carpeted boxes.
Amen to that. I've got a bad case of Turbo Blues... This thread didn't help at all (I may have gotten it first here - Thanks, Larry), nor did watching an awesome "official Porsche Turbo" youtube video yesterday.
Also, read a thread about waiting until age 45 to buy first porsche (a C4), then a TT, now a GT3. I think I may be on the same life path, albeit 10 yrs down the road...
UPDATE: Larry, sorry, you missed out on this one.
Turbo Sold
Larry this one has to fit your bill. Bright color, low miles, within 1000 miles and in your price range.
http://tinyurl.com/45j94q5
Edit: Ok I'm not sure if it's really that color. The photo says Seller photo but the description says it's Black
Yeah I just saw the tiny image and thought that was the car. Oh well I think I've done as much damage today as I can. I'll continue my search for you tomrrrow.
I've talked to them about this car, and commented on it earlier. It looks nice and price is right till you look closely at the pictures. The driver's seat looks like there is a cut in the middle of the bottom bolster. The driver's seat controls are missing the buttons, and the car had an accident 3 or 4 years ago. Plus it's grey/grey. Boring colors and issues. I'll pass.
But thanks for bringing it to my attention.
larry
WOW, you guys have been working overtime. I have spent the last day shoveling 24 inches of snow off the driveway (plus the heavy stuff that the snow plow laid at the bottom for me.) There are a lot of very nice cars among the ones that you showed me. I did some negotiating with a guy in Utah that had a 2001 Turbo in speed yellow with 19K miles on it, but he wanted a bit more than I am willing to pay. Nice car with sport exhaust and tuned turbos. Oh well. He wants $48K and won't move off of it. It's a nice car, just too pricey for me.
But, I did talk to a guy in Chicago about a 2001 low mileage Turbo that he has for sale. I'm going to see it tomorrow. It's down the street, and basically a one owner car, he bought it in 2002 with 3K miles on it. I don't want to give too much info out just yet. Tomorrow I may be able to tell you the whole story.
I hope that you guys have all had fun looking. I didn't realize that there were that many low mileage (anything under 35K is really low mileage) turbos around with pricing under $50K. For any of you that were looking for one for yourself, this was a pretty good survey of the market out there.
Hope that I can give you good news tomorrow.
thanks for everyone's interest in this thread.
larry
Non-believers!
I emailed him my bank account # and routing info, I think the car is mine, he said he has to deposit $52000 first then I give back some, but keep some AND the car!
Ivan:
Oh Yes, I know this guy, The dude is a Nigerian prince that has a porsche dealership in the african gold coast. He has an overstock of cars ranging in age from 2001 - 2010, turbos, N/A, GT2's, GT3's and the new GT4.5. He can only sell one car a week or his uncle gets suspicious. But he is splitting the profits with the first person that buys a car. I had hoped to be in first, but it looks like you beat me to it.
larry
http://www.eurocaroc.com/web/1208/ve...0Carrera-TURBO
My 2 cents. These guys have a very high reputation. Really don't like the wheels though. What is with the Turbo's? They all have gray interiors? Whats up with that?
Nick:
Thanks for the offer. The car is in Provo. The dude was playing chicken with me on pricing. I told him that my top dollar was $45K, he said that he couldn't take less than $48K. I said "all the best finding someone to pay your price." I then find a car in Chicago with the same mileage, slightly different equipment, and a potential selling price of $42,500.
This morning I have an email message from the Utah guy. OK, he says, what is your top dollar, and I'll check with my wife to see if it's OK. Honestly, what is better, same year, same mileage, local car vs Utah car, local car $2,500 less. Why should I fly to Utah? For the money differential, I can get the Chicago car chipped and get a sport exhaust.
If things change, I'll let you know.
larry
While looking, it seemed the same for me - All the turbos seemed to be black with grey or black interiors, or grey with grey interiors. I needed some color in my life.
larry
Ive worked on a chicago car.... let me tell you, it was not fun, rusted bolts everywhere.... snapped a couple taking headers off. Def take it up on the lift and see the cond... if it hasnt touched salt/snow, no brainer... go local.
My wrench is all over my NOT driving my car in the winter. Plus, I promised my family that after this last encounter, I won't drive the Porsche in the winter. So, between the settlement, the cost of the new car, and the fact that this car is only 19,000 miles and has never seen even RAIN, why would I ruin it by driving it in the snow and salt??
So, I am now also on the hunt for a Subaru to drive in the winter. Jumped onto Craigslist to find a couple of Subaru's - 96 or 98, with about 100K miles, new brakes, tires, clutch, alignment, timing belt, alignment, etc. for about $2K.
Now, that's a combination. Porsche Turbo for Summer, and Subaru Outback for Winter.
larry
Larry, the answer is obvious. Hey, as you saw there are options for you. Why pay more and go thru the hassle, right? You should go back to the Utah guy and offer $40k!!!
Sounds like a ploy,
"Tough deal, I have to talk to my sales manager".
He wants to take the money and run, for sure. Make him worry by walking towards the out door. I have to think its kind of a soft market in Provo. Can't fit too many wives and offspring in the back seats of a pcar.
If you time it right, it would be a great trip back to Chicago from Utah - I-80 has 75 speedlimit a lot of the way - plenty of road to kick the twin-t's into overthrust.
I looked on AutoTrader, and there was a car that was only 10 miles from my zip code. It was a 2001 Guards Red Turbo with 19,000 miles. The guy is the second owner, having bought the car from the original purchaser in 2002 with only 3,000 miles on the clock.
The car has never been driven in snow or even rain. It is owned by a real estate developer who used it on weekends to drive to his golf club. It's red with a black interior. The car looks brand new. I saw one chip in the paint on the passenger door, easy to fix. Xenon Headlights, upgraded Bose sound system, CD Changer, Heated seats, and all the standard goodies. The car was listed for $47,500, and he agreed to sell it to me for $42,500. So I'm only 2 big ones past my settlement with the insurance company. He admitted that it needed tires, since the original tires are still on the car. That and a car cover for the rest of winter, and a clear bra, and I'm set.
We just had a big snow in Chicago, so I just started it up and revved it a bit. The engine sounded great. The interior looked like new. When the streets dry out from the current snow fall, the current owner is going to drive it over to my mechanic for the PPI. That's going to cost me $200. Then, if the car passes, and I don't see why it won't - but that's the purpose of the PPI - I'll drive over, drop a check on the owner, grab the title and run like a bandit.
I brought my camera so that I could take some pictures of the car, and they really didn't turn out very well, but I'm posting them anyway - you know - no pictures and I was just dreaming.
No dream - here it is.
As luck would have it, I finally sold my Lexus IS250 that's been on AutoTrader for 6 months. They pick it up this weekend. So, this weekend, I've got to locate my Subaru - Winter Replacement.
larry
Those are some kind of bumper pads. I've seen them on other 2001 Turbos. I guess that they figure if you're going to go that fast . .. . . . . you might "bump" into something. I just don't see how those two little things are going to protect anything.
larry
That was quick ! I have to say there are so many turbo for sale it is crazy. I assume now that the 997TT can be had for 70k, the 996 turbo buyer are certainly stepping up.
Nick:
I talked to the owner two days ago. Went to see it yesterday. Gave the guy a deposit pending PPI, and we agreed on the price. It's all over but the shouting, as far as I'm concerned. This car was the PO's baby. His Audi and his wife's Mercedes were parked in the driveway. The two car garage was reserved for the Turbo.
With only 19K on the clock, I don't anticipate that anything will show up in the PPI. But, I am stretching my "ownership" a bit. It probably won't be till the end of next week before I give him the check and get the title.
larry
Your offer was more in line with what it is worth. His asking price was insane.
Now get those chrome wheels replaced and remove the front warts.
Come see us over on the Turbo subforum when you have some time..................
.......and bring your wallet
what do you look for when you suddenly lift? does it simply pop out then? I read about the mod but if it already pops, isnt it too late? I thought the mod was preventative not a correction.
correct
Every iteration of these cars PAG produces is a correction. You learn, improve, and repeat. When something comes up (like this), you work on preventative to fix the problem. Unless you want to replace the entire box with a corrected box (either 02+ or 03+ as I forget when the corrected box was implemented) then you have no other option. It's not as bad as it sounds.
Nice find Larry.
Many folks speak of wonderful trek across the country trying to find the perfect P-car..... but it sure is nice when it's right in your backyard and in pristine condition!
I looked far and wide in my initial search for my car, only to find it 2 blocks from where I used to live, and that was 35 minutes from where I moved!
I hope the PPI comes back perfect. Enjoy!
Dell, I found that most owners have an inflated view of what their cars are worth. There was a speed yellow 2001 also with 19k miles. Chipped with a Techart exhaust. It's in Utah. The dude wanted $48.5 for it. Too rich for my blood. I offered him $45k, but he was standing pat. So I found the red one in chicago. Better deal for me. He came back to me asking for my best offer. Too bad. Day late, dollar short.
Dell, I don't know what's involved in removing the warts from the front. But kinda like the fugly bumperettes on the 73 911's, it was part of the car, so I left them.
BTW, what's the big deal about the chrome wheels? My wrench said the same thing. "sell them to someone in california." I like them.
Larry
nothing wrong with chrome wheels - if you like them, hey its your car
BTW sorry about posting that last ad, I missed the part were you landed that ugly red car
BLAH - red Porsche
SWEET!
Awesome car Larry. Chrome isn't terrible but to me it is kind of a fad that has passed. The only chrome I see today are on the "ballers" with the 24" wheels on their sweet impala.
That being said there are days that I wish the Viper had chrome wheels instead of polished aluminum because it sure is a pain to keep up with the aluminum wheels. I think a nice set of powerdercoated black wheels with some red accent would look pretty sweet on that ride. But just my .0000000002 cents.
Again congratulations and I hope you really enjoy that thing. I know I would.
Yeah, I saw the head rests and said, WTF??? The back seat on that turbo sure looks roomier than my C4. Hey, it even has rear doors... In fact, the head rests look different from the front and the rear view - nice option.
Sounds like my situation. The Turbo is the oldest between my BMW and my fiancee's BMW, but she gets the 2-car garage while the BMWs are outside under a blanket of snow.
Congrats, and enjoy it in good health!
Michael.
I was wondering whether they were really polished or chrome. They look really reflective - maybe too reflective to be just polished. But, I like the way that they look. Adds a spitshine to the connection to the road. I'll bet they look a bit Pimping when rolling down the road.
So, I am already thinking of mods for the car - better stop before I spend more money that i don't have. I need at least 24 - 48 hours in the car before I can come up with a list of things to do. Interesting that now I can mod the performance much more easily than I could on the 996 Targa. But even with that, how much horsiepower is enough?? I would think that moving from 320 to 415 will keep me happy for a while!!!
larry
An exhaust will free up horsepower and make the car sound meaner... just remember that Turbo exhausts are expensive because they also include freer flowing cats.
Michael.
Make no mistake, those are chrome, not polished, and beyond fugly for the car. A fad that has passed. The chrome belongs on the Escalade.
If you like them, then that's all that matters. Polished would be a better alternative if you like the bling bling but less over the top.
I have seen guys that have had their chrome wheels refinished/painted which gives it a pretty interesting look. Black would be sweet on the red car.
I didn't want to say it but yeah, the chromes gotta go. Red with Black wheels is pretty sweet (just saw Dell made the same comment). Chrome is for espresso machines, Vespas and Freightliners.
Everyone else's comments notwithstanding, I kind of like the chrome wheels. My first priority is to get a cover for the car, cause it's going to be stored outside. Second is a clear bra put on the car - Hood, Fenders, front and rear bumper and mirrors. Third will be a new set of tires. Fourth will likely be to put in the 2nd gear detent popout preventative measure. (even though my wrench doesn't feel it's necessary).
Beyond that, I'll have to see when I start driving it in two months. But, honestly, I've got to get past the PPI first. (not really worried about that.)
Then, when spring hits, I will fill a thread full of Turbo ****.
larry
Larry... forgive us for living vicariously this dreary winter through your misfortune/fortune. We all have our opinions, but it is your car and you can bloody well do whatever you want with it.
We are just glad that such a potentially ugly event has turned out so well!
Yeah, I know. . . . . . we have a two car garage, and the only time that we had a car parked in it was when I had Kermit. I made sure that puppy was parked inside!!!
Right now, there is so much crapola in both sides of the garage, that I don't even know if I could consolidate it sufficiently to clear out one side for the new TT. Especially with the current situation with wifey, Better that I leave the car outside, under wraps. Don't want to give her any ideas about messing with it when I'm not looking.
larry
Car cover + outside = no good. Traps moisture, rubs on the paint, etc. etc. Sure covers are weatherproof and made of gentle princess-esque fabrics to protect the baby's bottom finish of the precious bahnstormer, but still outside + car cover = impending doom for your paint finish.
Better man up and clean out that garage. That's why garages are approximately the size of cars- to fit CARS. Not piles of crap.
Congrats on the local find. That takes a lot of grief out of the search.
Two words, STORAGE FACILITY! Seriously, clean that crap out. You'd be surprised how much of that stuff is just worthless crap taking up space. I've never understood why people use their garages as storage lockers. They are built to store CARS!!!
Think of it this way. You are saying your amazing car is worth LESS than the crap in your garage. If that's the case and you feel that way, send your Turbo to Tim and take his POS off his hands so you can park it outside! Tim knows how to treat his P-car right!!!!
Larry, congrats on the turbo find! What a beauty! I left my 996 Cab outside for about a month after I purchased it because of the huge amount of crap in my garage. I spent a day cleaning it out and installing a new garage door opener so that the Porsche could live inside. My house is slowly being remodeled by me, so most of the junk is construction-related stuff, but even so, I was able to pare it down a huge amount. You would be surprised how little you miss the stuff in the garage that you got rid of after you get your beautiful Twin Turbo in there...
BTW, a good garage sale could net you enough to buy some fun goodies- how about a set of PSS-10s?!
Cheers,
Tom
Ed and Company - Oh, come on. It's not exactly as bad as all that - Hoarders? Not at all, just your typical amount of crap. But, you're right, it's time to get it cleared out. There are a lot of things going on right now. You really don't want my laundry list. But . . . . . . . . . .Cleaning out the garage isn't exactly a high priority for me right now.
larry
I am in a state of HOLD. The current owner never drove the car in the snow or even rain. So, he won't drive the car when the streets are wet. He is going to take it to my wrench when the streets dry up. That being said, we have had on and off light snow fall for the past four days, so the car sits, resting quietly, in his garage.
When it stops snowing, and the streets dry out, he'll take it to my wrench. Then, if it passes, I drive over and pick the car up. Hopefully, sometime this week, or next.
I'm getting my settlement check from the insurance company tomorrow, so I'll be all set to go, as soon as the weather cooperates.
larry
The car doesn't melt when it is driven in rain. I understand snow as we've all seen what can happen.
I've never understood that when people say "never been driven in the rain" or other virtually impossible claims. Those are things that make me move on to another car. Sounds like time wasting. He's already got the car for sale so why does he care if the car gets wet?
Dell:
If we don't get the car to my wrench this week, I am going to push him to take it - no matter what the weather. After all, I AM buying the car unless there is something major going on with it. I don't see that as being likely. The greater distance between my viewing the car and the actual PPI, the more tenuous my grip on our deal. I think that I'll call him tonight. Time to get this going. Even if it is just parked in my driveway, I at least know that it is mine.
larry
Ivan:
Yes, my tools are located about where yours are. Need to climb over, bend down, move the impeding garbage. Oh yes, there's that 16 mm socket!!!
larry
I would never drive any of our nice cars in the rain. That's what my jeep is for. I spend far too much time detailing the cars just to have rain ruin all that hard work. Undercarriage is spotless and I plan on keeping it that way. Of course it only rains like 5 days a year here so it's easy but if the weather even looks like it may rain I choose another vehicle.
I use to live in Ohio and I never even bothered with keeping a clean car because it would rain or snow all the time. I don't know how people in the northwest do it.
Toomany:
That is the difference of the relationship that we have with our cars. In your case, you have a number of cars, and you like keeping them pristine. You really don't use them as Daily Drivers.
In my situation, and for many other Pcar owners that live in REAL weather, we have the choice of garage queen or DD. Kermit was a garage queen. I took it out maybe twice a month, if there were no clouds in the sky. Drove it only on paved roads, shunning gravel in corners etc. But that car had a different purpose.
My 996TT is a different animal. The current owner may have driven it like I cared for Kermit, but in my garage (figuratively), it's going to be a DD. Rain, wind, dust, etc. not a problem. The purpose of the car is for me to drive the hell out of it, and enjoy it totally, every day that it isn't between November 1 and the ides of March. Et Tu Too?
larry
It's easy to take that approach when you only get .000000001" of rain a year. I had that approach when we lived in Las Vegas. For those of us in true 4 season climates we enjoy driving our car year round and just wash it as needed. We just detail more often. The only time I would NEVER take the car out is in adverse weather (i.e., snow, hurricane, hail, etc).
Exactly. The minute you remove the wrapper, it losses half of its collectible value. I would have to pass on that first Audi in the pic because some dumba$$ peeled back the wrapper to the driver's door. Epic fail.
hey, speak for yourself - I was serious!!
BTW Larry... the first step towards recovery is admitting you have a problem....
I have no idea what comes after that, let me know if you find out
I have had 6 Porsche's over the last 37 years and everyone was driven year round, rain, or shine, sleet or snow. Non were pristine after a few years, they are cars meant to be driven. The first 5 were driven to over 100,000 each, and my current car will be driven that far too. I am always amazed at the garage queens and owners who won't take their cars out if it rains. Each to his own I guess. But look how many low mileage, pristine cars are out there. Their owners just missed out on a lot of fun and use of there cars. There are so many 2, 3 and 4+ year old cars with only a few thousand miles that are selling for a fraction of the original cost. Hard to believe that some people pay $100,000+ for a car, drive it for 10,000 miles and end up selling it for $50,000, so they have paid $5/mile without maintenance, financing cost , etc. Should have driven the ehll out of it everyday and sold it for $40,00 or $45,000.
Everyday you don't drive your Porsche is a day wasted.
No everyday that I don't drive the Porsche is a day that I drive the Viper, or the Lightning or....
They tend to get jealous and break if you don't share the attention amongst them all
So, the current owner takes the 2001 Guards Red Turbo (with 19,000 miles on it) to my mechanic, Sol Snyderman of Perfect Power, for the PPI. They put it up on the lift and take a close look, then I arrived just as he was going to take it for a test drive. At the outset, he told me that the tires not only needed replacing, but they were dangerous. Considering the negative camber of the car, the outside edge of the tires looked pretty worn, but they still had a bit of tread. The inside of the tires were down to the cord!!!!!
So, we went for a drive. This is the first time that I've been in a Turbo. We were heading down a quiet street in the industrial park, and Sol goosed it. I mean, talk about a rocket launch!!!!!!!
Felt the car give back a little as we were accelerating, but the tires are badly worn, and there is still a bit of snow on the street.
As we get back to the shop, Sol says, "I can't recommend that you buy this car. As we accelerated through 4,000 to 5,000 RPM, I could feel the engine missing. By the second or third time I did it, the check engine light came on. You need to find out what this problem is before I can recommend you buy it."
Also, while they had it on the lift, they saw that the undercarriage had been abused. The owner is a contractor, and he was driving the Turbo into construction sites!!! I was told that a number of the under body covers were missing, and that there were a lot of clips that held the AC lines, etc that were missing, and that the lines under the car were scraped up pretty bad and stretched. Ouch. Didn't expect that!! Sol said that it would cost probably a couple of hundred bucks to buy the parts, they are pretty cheap, and about an hour's worth of work to clean up the bottom, and replace all the clips, etc that were missing or damaged. The other thing is that he says that the tranny has been dropped. No idea what was done, since the engine and tranny are dry as a bone, but the trans was dropped. Hmmm.
We go back to the office, and Sol tells the owner the story. That he can't recommend that I buy the car as it is currently driving. Tires and covers/clips aside, the car doesn't run right. Owner says, but what about the chip that I had installed? Sol said that the chip isn't affecting anything with the way the car is running. It is only getting .8 boost, and there is no evidence that it has a chip. They hook up the computer to the car, and the codes show that the number 5 cylinder is missing on hard acceleration.
Sol said that he would be more than happy to do the work, but the owner said that he would rather take it to the shop that he goes to, and see what that mechanic says.
An hour later, I get a call from the owner. He took the car to his mechanic, and he mirrored what Sol said. The engine is missing on hard acceleration. He will have to pull the bumper, exhaust, coil packs to replace the spark plug, and inspect to see if the problem is the coil, spark plug or injector or ??? I suggest that while he has the car apart, he might as well replace the spark plugs all the way around. And, if the owner really had put a chip in the car, he should have his mechanic look at that, since it doesn't seem to be doing anything.
The owner said, "OK, I'll have him replace the plugs, and check on the chip. The car should be ready for your mechanic to look at it again on Monday or Tuesday.
So, the end of this story is still unwritten. I am a bit disappointed that the undercarriage of the car has taken such a beating. Maybe I'll ask for the owner to split the cost on the "fix." But, I am glad that his mechanic mirrored what Sol said, and that the owner is having fresh plugs put in the car. That's worth something. I have a cashier's check in my briefcase to pay for the car. It's just staying there for another couple of days. Hopefully I'll have a happy ending by mid week next. But, after all, that is the reason why we do a PPI.
larry
what!!! no pics of the under-carriage!...... Boooooo!
Maybe you can still work out a deal with him.... if the price is right and there is no frame damage. Those tunnel covers are pretty flimsy.
Ah that's a bummer
Hopefully they can get it worked out soon. Is the seller going to put new tires on it or just discount the price to cover the cost of new tires?
With the number of cars on the market I would easily move on to the next one. From what I have heard this car does NOT give me a warm fuzzy and you might come to regret it in the future. When a car is treated like that you can only assume what else is neglected that hasn't been seen.
Pass.
Sol said that the damage to the undercarriage is mostly cosmetic, but he was surprised that once the guy felt the bottom dragging, it didn't stop him from driving it to those locations. He figures that for less than $500 he can have that brought back to a reasonable state. I'm going to see if I can get the owner to split the cost with me.
Regarding the tires, I knew that it needed new tires when I looked at it the first time. I figure that for somewhere around $700 - $800 I can get a set of Sumitomo HTR Z III, or Kumho Ecsta SPT for the car.
Then, since he's going to get the engine taken care of, putting new plugs around the Turbo isn't a small job, and fixing what he has running on the Chip is something that I hadn't expected. So that's an added bonus.
Then I take it to my lingerie shop to get a clear bra for it - this time I'm covering the whole hood and the rear bumper as well. All for $700.
And, if it still doesn't pan out, I can always pass. I've only put out the cost of the PPI. But, this is the first time that I've had Sol do a PPI for me. I like the fact that he's critical. That's what I'm hiring him for.
larry
Sorry, but that just screams neglect by the owner. These cars are very robust and reliable but when neglected the bills can add up quickly.
Ultimately it's your decision. Personally, I went through several PPI's and made sure not to get excited about a single car until it met the level of scrutiny I required. Needless to say I passed on several before I found the perfect one.
Very sound advice.
I'd get the chip off that car, replace the plugs and have your guy drive it throughly again before I even considered moving forward.
It's a damn shame you couldn't have your guy do the plug change. What if a few coils are cracked? Do you think the owner will say "oh just go ahead and replace all of them". I doubt it.
Dell:
I certainly understand where you're coming from. In the past, I have had a number of PPI's done on long distance cars. I depended on an unknown (to me) shop to give me the scoop. Sometimes they said, looks good. Sometimes they said PASS ON THIS ONE.
This is the first time I have had a local car for a PPI, and the first time I've had Sol do it. I've asked him directly if he feels that he can "fix" the undercarriage, or if that shows enough neglect that he would just pass on the car. He feels that if that's the only issue, he can make it right. But he is also concerned that it might bode for other issues. For a guy to say he's so careful with his car that he won't drive it in the rain, but he drives it through construction sites? A bit contradictory.
Yes, I'm enamored over the fact that it's red, has only 19K miles, and is local. And, the current owner is willing to take it to his mechanic to get new plugs, fix his programmed chip, and resolve whatever other issues the car is facing. That certainly adds value.
If, in the end, Sol says "Pass on this car," I will.
Regarding any potential issues with cracked coils, wouldn't those show up as error codes? Also, if it is only cylinder 5 that is missing, they could get by with just replacing that single plug. I asked the owner to replace all the plugs while his wrench was in there. He said OK. At least he's being cooperative. He could have just said, "you don't want to buy it, don't. I'm not spending any money on this car."
larry
whats weird is he's selling a turbo with a misfiring engine and hasnt disclosed or was aware of it?.... Im with Dell.... it doesnt leave a good feeling about the seller.
The guy is not a Pcar nut. He is a nut that bought a Pcar. The car only showed misfiring at full throttle at over 4K rpm. I don't know if he ever drove it that hard. I don't think that he knows much if anything about the car, nor does he want to. I will ask him for copies of his service records over the past 10 years. If he has them, great, it would resolve some questions. If he doesn't, that would probably be typical of a guy that just bought a Porsche because of the cache it gives him.
I'm going to hold out judgment for the next PPI, and trust Sol's advice.
larry
You'd be better off (1) buying from an enthusiast; and (2) not relying SOLELY on your ppi guy. He doesn't have an interest in this long-term, you do.
You'd be wise to come over to the Turbo forum and learn from the collective before making a potentially costly decision.
And I was not aware that these cars cars could be chipped. I thought they had to be flashed.
I've said my peace so now I'll sit back and watch. I hope you realize that we are looking out for you.
Dell:
Certainly I realize that you guys have my best interests at heart. But, I also trust Sol and his judgment on things. He has given me advice on buying (or not buying) Porsches for the past 5 years. He has steered me away from a number of cars for various reasons. He knows that he's going to be servicing this car for the foreseeable future. If it becomes a problem, he will hear about it FROM ME for a long time to come.
Regarding chipping and flashing - it is likely that I am getting lost in the terminology here. He has had some programming done - likely flashing - to his car. I need to call him and see who's program he used.
Sol feels that if we have the undercarriage "fixed" he will be OK with the car (understanding that the issues with the engine are paramount.) But, he also said that maybe there's something cleaner out there for the picking. Certainly I didn't expect that this car would have suffered the abuse/misuse that Sol found. I'll reserve judgment till Wednesday of next week. Then we'll know the outcome of the second PPI.
larry
IIRC this was a car that hit your price range, and that the range required you to find a lower-priced TT. With that in mind, most any car you find is going to be less than perfect. The question is whether the seller is willing to make reasonable repairs to stuff th PPI uncovers and/or if the inevitable cosmetic issues that you uncover are relatively easy to fix. A perfect, low mileage 996TT is probably 8-10 grand more than your budget.
Sounds like you are on the right track, with your eyes wide open. Just make sure you can walk if you have to.
Like many, i've been following since the mishap. Disappointing findings.
The undercarriage abuse is inconsistent with the never driven in rain concept. Good thing you had the PPI. Hopefully all will be made well. If not, there are lots out there.
It will be a while yet for fair weather driving. Use the time to Your advantage. Wishing you all the best.
I agree with this, and will go further and say that ~$42k for a 20k mile turbo that needs a few underbody clips (assuming the damage is superficial as your mechanic says) is not a half bad deal, especially after fresh plugs. Some people never drive hard, the test drive misfire wouldn't be a red flag for me either -again as long as it checks out and is fixed before your purchase.
All that said, I personally wouldn't be so stuck on low miles. I've seen several problems (cats being a common one, but certainly misfires, carbon build up, etc) on cars that are not driven often or hard. Cars are meant to be driven, and they certainly don't like cold starts, short trips or long periods of no use.
Tonight, I called the owner of the red Turbo I had the PPI done on. Told him that I was no longer interested in his car. That the abuse to the undercarriage was too much for me to look past, considering that the car had only 19,000 miles, and the undercarriage should be pristine. I knew that he would fix whatever was wrong with the engine, and my wrench could "fix" the undercarriage for a few hundred dollars, but it would never be really "right." So, I'm no longer interested.
Sol sent me a number of postings from Ebay just to show me that there were other options. I really didn't want to get involved in a "shooting match" on evilbay, plus the issues of having a PPI done before the auction was over, and then potentially losing it, or trying to arrange with the seller to allow me to do it afterwards . . . . . . yecch. But I looked at
Another Red Turbo
on Ebay, and WOW, they are only a half hour from my house.
The "buy it now" was a bit more than I wanted - $44,900, but it had only 25K miles on it. I called them to see if I could come buy and see it. They said sure. These guys sell 60 - 80 cars a month on Ebay, all over the country.
The car looks beautiful. Three owners, 6 speed, sport seats with painted backs and Porsche crests, carbon fiber/leather interior package, painted center console with ashtray delete (matches seatbacks and car exterior), CD changer, and aluminum pedals. The paint is in great shape, just needs a little buffing. Wheels are very clean, no curb rash, and painted Porsche crests in the wheels.
I looked the car over, and negotiated on the price - we agreed to $43,500 pending the PPI. So this car is only $1,000 more than the last one, lots more options and I am really excited about the sport seats with painted backs and the painted center console. They didn't want me to drive the car, too risky with the winter and the car having summer tires on it. They are going to truck it over to Perfect Power, and he'll do the PPI tomorrow (of course, I'm paying the $100 for the tow.) I shot some pictures with my phone, so they aren't really great. They do, however, prove that I was in the presence of the car, and am not just "cloning" an evilbay listing for the sake of this thread. But if you hit the link to the Ebay listing, and scroll down, you will be able to see the 165 pictures that they posted on line.
(And BTW to RPM - here it is, a pristine 2001 Low Mileage Turbo for $43,500, just $3,500 over my budgeted amount. Not bad, right??)
Of course, you know, I will keep you posted tomorrow. I hope that it all works out OK. Just a bit more than I wanted to spend, but it's a lot more car than I had before.
larry
Goog call. I think we all had a bad feeling about that other red TT with all of the inconsistencies and questionable care. Seemed pretty shady.
Now this car.....
I have a good feeling about it.
me likey this one betta!!
best luck going forward.... the reason you did the PPI was to find out stuff, the stuff you found out made the last one not work out, thats a good thing and why you do PPI's !!
Not bad at all.....sending good vibes your way. As long as the seller knows explicitly that the nego. price is based on a STELLAR ppi with no issues.
Go call on the previous one. I realize you have a check that you need to spend but patience will pay off in the end.
in the ad, several pics show the paint is need of a good amount of work... looks great in the right light, but needs help in other light.
BTW that keychain is a cheap Chinese thing - My Mom sent me the exact same one, broke in about a month
seriously though, really nice looking car
Ivan: You are totally right about the reason for the PPI. That is why I ALWAYS have it done prior to purchase. I always wonder about the buyer that buys a car, and says he would rather have the PPI (post-purchase inspection) done by someone he knows. They end up buying cars like the last Turbo I looked at. Looks great on the outside, but who would have seen the undercarriage issues? That might have ended up being OK, but as a semi-fanatic, why would I want to buy a car that has issues before I even start?
Re: the paint. This car is going to be a DD. That being said, I will do a certain amount of buffing, polishing, etc. But the daily wear and tear on the paint is going to be more than what you currently see. I'll take some time to get it right this spring, then just maintenance.
Pas - I didn't see heat on the options list. Would be surprising, but then again, this car isn't going to see winter, so it isn't as much of an issue for me now. And yes, I was disappointed to not see red seat belts!!! What gives with that? Did the original purchaser run out of money? BTW, this car was Certified before the last owner bought it.
To everyone else - Thanks for the good wishes. We'll find out sometime today. I've got my fingers crossed. I had been drooling over a speed yellow version of this car for the past three weeks. Sport seats, but no carbon fiber, 29K miles, but the dealer wanted $49,800. Too rich for my blood. And this came along -
- Hope that it all turns out alright. OH, forgot to say. This car also has a short shift kit in it. Not sure whose, but the seller said that it's a really nice add-on for the Turbos.
larry
Good luck with the PPI that Guards red TT sure looks great and in regards to the paint, there is nothing a good detail shop can't do check out this one here:
http://detailingworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=141517
I am sure yours will looks as good if not better after she got her "spa" treatment!
I have to admit that Lapis Blue is one of my favorite colors, but that was no $150 detail (even without the paint.) It's just a long way to go - to Portugal - to get a car detailed.
larry
When I negotiated a price on the car, the seller said that he would have it "trucked" over to Perfect Power for the PPI. He wouldn't let me drive it. Summer tires, unknown situation, this was just safer - cost me $100 to get it there. I arrived at 2:30, and the truck arrived at 3:00. I have to admit that when I saw it being backed down that odd combination of steel and wood boards, I was concerned. It was really close to bottoming out on the street. But it didn't.
I pulled it in, and they put it up on the alignment rack. Looking at the bottom of the engine and trans, it was obvious that sometime in the past the trans had been replaced. It was difficult to see how long ago, because the case was spotless. On the left side of the engine, where the cam housing met with the header, there was some seepage. It was just enough to wet the metal parts. The rest of the engine and trans were clean, other than stains. No wetness anywhere.
As we moved to the front of the car, it was obvious that something was happening, because the center belly panel was wet and gooey. They pulled that off, and took it to the parts bin to wash it out. Looking at the engine, and you can see from the pictures, there is a line of pink "stuff" that looks like someone tried to stop the seepage in the front differential. Unsuccessfully. It was creating a bit more of a mess than the engine seepage, but Sol didn't think that it was anything that I needed to worry about, but that I should have it fixed somewhere down the road.
Putting the clean belly panel back in place, they walked around the car, looking at the wheels and brakes. Nearly new, no road rash on the wheels, but the tires were about 80% gone. Not as bad as the other red car, but they need replacing in the near future. We then took the car down, and Sol and I went for a ride. He was going to drive.
We climbed into the cockpit. I was surprised. The sport seats are manually controlled, no electric seats with memory, no heated seats. Lots of carbon fiber around. It is starting to peel on the right air vent, so I'll have to have it glued down. There is a small paint chip on the center console. I'll have to touch it up sometime in the future.
Sol and I took it for a test drive. He turned the PASM off so that he could feel the engine and the boost without having to worry about the throttle being constrained by the car's computer. This thing is a rocket ship!!! While looking at the boost reading on the dash, it was clear that someone had flashed the chip in this car. It clearly climbed to 1.0 Bar. Sol said that was a reasonable amount of boost. He feels that some people who push the turbos to 1.1 Bar are just pushing too much. Or maybe that's just for residential driving, not on the track.
With the PASM off, and the streets wet, the rear end broke loose a number of times whenever he goosed it. I'll have to admit, it was a bit scary to me. Not the little sliding, but the obviously massive amount of power under the trunk lid.
Sol was very pleased with the responsiveness of the car, and the way it handled, accelerated, braked and drove. Made me feel good. There was one other thing. There is a groan in the steering column. When you turn the wheel it groans a bit as you turn left, and then a bit more as it returns to center. OK, something else to mention.
When we got home (back to the shop) we discussed our strategy. Sol suggested that I play a bit of hardball. Ask for $1,000 off the $43,500 negotiated price, and if he says no, tell him that I'm going to look at a speed yellow car in Milwaukee that has only 9,000 miles on it. Then let him stew for a day, and call back tomorrow if he doesn't call me first. Since he ended the auction early to sell me the car, I was concerned that he might just put it back on Evilbay, and I'd lose the car. So, I played it straight.
Called him, told him that we liked the car but we found two major seepages, front and rear, that there was a groan in the steering column and it was missing the toolkit. (Is there supposed to be a portable compressor in the frunk, or do they really use a can of compressed air to fill that minispare?) I told him that I was interested in the car, but I needed a $750 discount. He said he'd drop the price $500, and he had a toolkit around someplace that he could give me. I said fine.
So, I go to his office Tuesday to pay for the car, and pick up the toolkit. The out the door price is $43,000 (plus tax and license and title fees.) That is only $500 more than the one yesterday that failed the PPI. I am happy, very happy, and think that this is a good deal for a low mileage (25,303) car without any major issues. Here are some pictures I took today. Enjoy.
larry
Well done, Larry, looks great!
I was shopping about a year ago for the same, but couldn't find the right one.
I like that mustard color 911 in the pic.
I'm sure you'll enjoy cleaning and caring for her, enjoy the drive!
Larry,
Thanks for keeping this thread going. I've enjoyed reading it this winter and am eagerly waiting for some warm spring days to bring my car out of the garage for the summer season.
Cheers to the new car, it looks great
I like the car you settled on. Once you've had Sports Seats, painted backs, painted console and lots of icing on the cake, you find all other cars just too plain and un-exciting. That's a problem for me as the Cab I sold had 29 factory options, over 20 from the Exclusive Program. LAW btw has a car they bought here that I test drove a couple of times, had a PPI done on and really liked but it had issues. It's a Seal Grey coupe tip with black wheels. Incredably fast, PSS9, GIAC flash with programmer, Sports seats. The interior is loaded and very nice, drives well too. Next time you're there check it out.
Nick:
I was really surprised when I finally went to their place. They have what looks like a 60K sq ft warehouse just filled with high end cars, MB, M-Series BMers, Porsches, Ferraris, lots of stuff. They source their cars from all over the country, and sell them exclusively on the internet. He told me that they sell between 60 - 80 cars a month. That's a lot of volume.
larry
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
