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YOUR RESEARCHDrivers Ed - PCA
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Run with other clubs, and in general, find
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I have run with other clubs, and in general, find that PCA (as a national organization) does more events than any other club.
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(I use an outside company to supplement my vehicle coverage on track)
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Personally, I have used WSIB for 2 years for DE insurance only.
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Suggestion
Yes, they wrote us a check, they also gave us three weeks to find a new policy.
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Has anyone attended a PCA sponsored Drivers Ed program at your local track?
If so I'd like to get you feedback on the pros and cons of the event.
Bottom line, was it worthwhile ???
Thanks
Just to throw out another good option for you since your in New England.
www.SCDA1.com
is a fantastic group to run with. Their events are absolutely top notch. They have a events at LRP, NHIS, and the Glen. I'll be heading to LRP this Spring and a few of their other events as well. There's a great mix of cars from super fast and cool all the way down to my Prelude.
There is a
whole forum
dedicated to this. You will find hours and hours and hours of reading.
Some love it, some hate it. Those that love it REEAALLLLY love it.
-td
I went to check out this "forum" and went to the first 5 pages and didn't really see anything useful/specific to my question; but I'll ask over there thanks....
Bob, I'm in Boston and have done a few events with the local PCA. Drop me a PM or an email if you'd like to discuss things.
Overall, I really enjoy the events. In terms of being "worthwhile" I guess it depends what you expect to get out of it. I have a great time and feel like I learn a lot about the car and myself at the events. By those measures I'd say it's certainly worthwhile.
Shawn
PCA DE is definitely fun and very educational. In addition, you meet many people with a similar passion for cars and driving at the limits. I am of the opinion, that if you own a high HP car you should do several events to understand your limits as a driver.
Do a search and you'll find what you need. The first 5 pages will be the most current topics - and virtually nothing catering to a newbie to the track.
DEs, including PCA sponsored events, have been around for years and years. People have asked every conceivable question about them. From what to bring the first time, what tires, what pressures, what seats, what gas, etc etc. It's all there for the finding.
-td
Short answer is YES.
How much you enjoy it will depend on your attitude going in and how the region you pick runs the event. Some regions are way laid back, some are aggressively interactive, most strike a good middle ground between the extremes.
Every event I have been to has had someone that I have “bonded” with in some way. Whether it is similar cars, adjacent “pits” or same run groups you will find common ground with someone there.
It is still one of the least expensive ways to get exposure to instructed high performance driving on a track that you will find.
hey bob, i'm in boston also and started doing de's last summer, (very addictive, did 20 of them last summer!). they are definatley worthwhile. as someone else metioned scda is a great group also. i actually did events with pca, scda, audi, and bmw. you see a lot of the same people at all the clubs. met some really good people last year. feel free to pm me if you need any info.
I'm a fan of PCA events - but I may be biased as I've been a very active PCA member for a long time.
I have run with other clubs, and in general, find that PCA (as a national organization) does more events than any other club. They also tend to have more "structured" rules. Those can rub people with large egos the wrong way... but in general I've found these rules help promote safety and help weed out the people who fall into the category "other sports beckon".
Whatever you do, DO NOT ATTEND THIS EVENT! If you do, you will become addicted and spend all your time planning your next track event, thinking about the last event, modifying your car for events and talking with others about attending these events.
Seriously tho, they are a lot of fun and you will appreciate your car even more.
what insurance??? Seriously though my friend totaled his boxter at daytona and his insurance paid. He also had a mishap at sebring and his insurance paid there also. Some do and some do not.
I'm pretty sure nobody ever crashes their car at a DE - but there do seem to be a surprisingly large number of single car accidents immediately outside the front gates of tracks ... like a short towing distance away ... hint hint ...
Seriously, I've yet to hear of a novice (eg. with instructor) go off the track at any of the PCA events I've been to. I'm sure it has happened before but if you are humble and listen to your instructor, things should be fine.
This is a valid concern. Most (not all) insurance companies have written language into their policies that will leave you exposed if you have damage at a DE.
You would be wise to check you policy before you attend. I would not call the company and ask as some on this board have found that route problematic. Check the language in your policy.
There is suplemental coverage available from several different sources. (I use an outside company to supplement my vehicle coverage on track)
The guys are right - some insurance policies do - and some don't. We had our Boxster totalled a few years ago at Roebling Road Raceway - it was months before we heard from our insurance company. Yes, they wrote us a check, they also gave us three weeks to find a new policy. They recommended their sister insurance company, who wanted to charge us so much more and for so much less. Our insurance agent found us a better policy, but in it was clearly written a track exclusion.
So, when we do DEs we use Lockton-Affinity. They insure us for the whole weekend of being on the track for a reasonable price and a reasonable deductible. Knock wood, so far we haven't had need to put in any claims - but I can sleep better at night...
P.S. And for the Racing & DE Forum - yes, those of us who are regular - just can't get enough of it.
That DE insurance sounds interesting. I took a look at their site - it doesn't really talk about how a repair amount would be determined or the process involved.
For anyone whose curious, for a $20K policy it would be $126 for an event.
You are one pretty funny dad there! I just want to share a story that took place in Lime Rock with you. It was back in the 1960s. A little 356 on the track died. It's owner and 3 friends carried it out onto the local streets and left it in a ditch. The owner went and called his insurance company to let them know the car had been in an accident. Everything looked like it was coming together for the owner.
However, the insurance company sent around an investigator who went door to door talking to neighbors to see if anyone saw anything. One sweet, little old lady when asked told the investigator of the funny sight of four men carrying a car and leaving it right there....
You just never know - and it isn't worth it.
And yes, I know you are joking. Unfortunately, I've been told I don't have much of a sense of humor when it comes to the safety of all....
For those that didn't find the Lockton-Affinity's HPDE Insurance site and wanted to:
http://hpdeins.locktonaffinity.com/
tris911
There are some companies that will supply you with a year's contract - and depending on how many DEs you do per year - that could work fine.
Lockton-Affinity works great for the individual who attends 6 or less DEs a year.
Just thought I'd throw that out...
and oh, of course, you are most welcome.
Ryan Staub here from the HPDE Insurance Program. Our repair process is very similar to what you'll go through on a standard policy. One advantage - we don't have a preferred network of body shops that you have to use. Up to this point, our insureds have been able to use the body shop of their choice. The body shop works with the adjuster to determine an appropriate repair value.
In the case of a total loss the adjuster will do research and offer a buyback value for your vehicle. You can buy it back or let the insurance carrier dispose of it. Our average claims process has been about 2 weeks from incident to settlement. It's a little longer than I'd like, but we have dealt with a few individuals where their 3rd car was damaged and they weren't in a rush to keep the process moving.
If you have any additional questions, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Regards,
Ryan Staub
rstaub (at) locktonaffinity (dot) com
It covers up to the agreed upon value, minus deductible.
It doesn't provide any liability insurance, so while your car may be fixed, all the liability issues you'll still have to deal with. (obviously if you are by yourself and hit a wall or something then liability is less of a concern, but if you injure someone else......)
Ryan, I did send you guys an email to get an event I'm involved with added to the list. I haven't received any replies. Thanks for posting here, I'll forward the email I sent over to you.
edit: I just sent it yesterday, so not a big deal, just want to get the process finished
Very good point about liability. Just as I did as I started in this hobby, I'd recommend that all individuals sit down and read the liability waivers and event policy information that you can typically get from the national clubs we participate with.
I still suggest doing your own research. Here's what I came away with:
- everyone waives their rights against everyone else...the one exception is the track doesn't waive their rights against you (Barber and other tracks will charge you for property damage)
- event policies typically state that participants, event officials, etc are additional insureds under the event policy
- most clubs carry between $5M and $10M of coverage for any one occurrence. Many clubs also have Particpant Accident/Excess Medical coverage in addition to the liability policy.
As long as there is no gross negligence anyways. (see the famous Carrera GT incident...)
A lot of tracks (all of the one's I've dealt with over the last 5 years anyways) require the club to have insurance. I would guess all would after the above mentioned Carrera GT crash.
Good talking to you earlier btw!
Dave,
I've only organized on Roebling - and since 2001. Every event I must produce the insurance certificate before the first car enters the track at our event to the managers.
Our club insurance is mostly for damage done to the track by our club. There is a bit in there for medical and not much else. It is the standard K&K track insurance under written by Acord -- and it looks just like the PCA club insurance we use to get...
There are a number of threads on track insurance in the DE forum.
Personally, I have used WSIB for 2 years for DE insurance only. No claims to date (knock wood). Also, my policy is less than the $126 mentioned above and it is for more than $20K in coverage.
Keep in mind, most DE policies will ONLY cover damage to YOUR vehicle, not facilities, not other vehicles, not personal injury - just YOUR car.
-td
Yeah I know - one man's humor is another man's beautiful new (or vintage, take your pick) ride in the tire wall. Or worse still ... And yes, I was most certainly joking. I too am all for safety.
Haven't heard of anyone willing to provide DE insurance in Ontario - I'd be interested in knowing if any Canucks can recommend anything affordable. Right now I am "self insured" ...
acadian_dad,
Lockton Affinity is trying to get you guys insurance. Keep your fingers crossed.
I know what you mean about self-insured. We use to have a Boxster - it died on Turn 9 of RRR due to a front tire blowout. We self-insured by picking up a $5,000 944S2 and about $7,000 to make it track worthy... Something to walk away from in case. Now L-A insures us every weekend we take it out for about 80 bucks. I figure if something happens it's 5% or $1000 which ever is more, and we can get another track car. Though, I'm now thinking of selling the 944S2. Now that there is insurance -- I might want a better car out there...
P.S. We seem to be mentioning a few different types of insurance here. Above, I was only discussing the actual Event Insurance - that you need for a group to run on a track - or the track doesn't let your group run.
Then there are the individual for their cars, etc. insurance. And yes, there are a number of threads on that topic.
That's still pretty darn cool to me. I have a racecar so especially in my wife's eyes, it makes it pretty stupid to use a street car that wouldn't be covered. Then again, there was that one event I used my streetcar because I was too woried I might damage the racecar. LOL
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