OT: Boycott of Michelin?

So, anyone up for some good ol' rabble rousin"? After watching, no that is not accurate, after turning off the F1 race, I began to wonder why Michelin couldn't have figured their problem BEFORE the race. Seems like their engineers are not up to the task at times. So with so many good tires out there to choose from, I propose a boycott of Michelin by those of us who care about racing. (And maybe this was really about Ferrari and just a little bit about GPWC) Thoughts anyone?

Well, although I think Michelin should have provided a tire that was safe for the race I think they and the teams made the right call. If there was no safe way for them to compete then they must bow out. This is no different than if you were to show up a DE with bad brakes or broken suspension components. I think the FIA should have allowed the placement of a chicane even if this meant that world championship status was yanked from the race. All the teams, save Ferrari, agreed to this measure. Auto Racing is an entertainment and they certainly failed to put on a decent show. One thing I'm sure we all agree on is that is was a dark day for F1.

I'm a big F1 fan and couldn't believe what I was watching- almost surreal. Was out waxing the GT3 after the race, almost embarassed to look at the Pilot Sports! Michelin screwed up big time- why should the rules be changed because they screwed up? If it were the other way around, think Bridgestone would get any "help"? They'd tell Ferrari to go screw itself. What a BIG mess. Sure glad I didn't go this year! Heads must be rolling over at Michelin this morning... (Does make the new break away series look a little more promising doesn't it?)

When my Pirellis wear out I'm putting on Michelins.

when my continentals wear out I'm putting on Bridgestone S02's I went to the race and my level of annoyance is difficult to comprehend Michelin ****ed up, the chicane idea was bull**** - why should they change the rules to favour one side? all they needed to do was tell the drivers to drive slower round the bend - if the drivers ignored this then thats their problem OK they may not have beat the ferarris but i'm positive they would still have beaten the jordans/minardis Michelin should pay for the refunds for the spectators. I only drove from nashville, but if I had travelled from the UK as I did on the inaugural GP here then I would have been livid

Stirring the pot some more. Listening to the talking heads, I believe I heard that only two teams showed for the Indy tire test, the other teams were at Silverstone. So no feedback from those that were going to run. Since there were reports of other racing types having difficulty with the new track surface, seems the folks from France should have gotten the word. If F1 is the greatest show in racing, then how did the IRL race the entire month of May with no controversy? So, the bottom line for me is Michelin did not do their homework, looked for a punt from FIA and didn't get it so they took their toys and went home. Unacceptable in big time racing. You come prepared to race no matter what. Oh and don't get me started on Schuey. So when my Yoko's wear out, no Michelins for me.

I was at the "race" (aka F1 test session)...it was surreal. Michelin dropped the ball. I am torn on what the solution should have been. It is completely unfair to penalize the Bridgestone runners because of the Michelin **** up but I agree the show/entertainment value sucked. The problem is the 14 of 20 cars were on Michelins....if the tables and been reversed it wouldn't have been that big of news. Everyone would have written off as Ferrari continuing to struggle and no one would have cared. I can see the article now.....Kimi closed the gap on Championship leading Alonso with a dominating win at the USGP on Sunday, after the poll sitting Toyota had to stop for fuel on lap 2. Defending world champions, Ferrari, continued their struggles as they were forced to withdrawal from the race with unsafe tires. Alonso..... The solution should have been something like what Coultard suggested....Giving all the points to the Bridgestone teams, then putting a chicane up and running the race for the entertainment value. I was really disappointed because I thought it was going to be a great race with the Ferrari finally being competitive and having a chance to challenge for the win. It will be interesting to see if the FIA penalizes the Michelin teams further. Mosley indicated Michelin was in violation of the same provision as BAR was earlier this year and look at the penalty they got.

I drove from NYC, and was not a very happy camper. I won't go looking for a refund, buts its definitely left a bad taste in my mouth for F1. Thank god for the Porsche Supercup race. If I was an F1 team on the Michelins, I would have dropped Michelin, with cause, and gone to Goodyear. (Is that even possible?) Ultimately, I think they should just stick to a standard tire manufacturer, where everyone gets the same thing, regardless. What I think is amusing to think about is, what would have happened if they pulled this in Imola? France, or even worse, Brazil! People have expressed disappointment in the American fans for throwing debris on the track. While I don't condone such actions, I think F1 got away pretty easily. Just think what would have happened in Spain, if after the warm-up lap, all those fans waiting to see Alonso shoot by, only got to see a flash of Red and yellow... F1 screwed the crowd it could most afford to screw....

I accidentally tuned into the F1 race after thoroughly enjoying about 8 hours of le Mans coverage. It was a pretty odd situation. No biggie to me, though, because I race on Hoosiers. Plus I would only go to F1 Indy if it was completely comped, while I would pay big bucks for a le Mans total access pass. I suspect the decision at Michelin was made by lawyers, and not by technical people, and certainly not by marketing people. More than anything, I would love to hear a transcipt of Tony Georges comments. Or this mornings "conversation" between Tony, Bernie, and FIA. Qualifier: I have only been to 2 F1 races, at Silverstone and Brands Hatch, when Andretti and Lotus were kicking *ss. Almost 30 years ago. Ub PS: I hope Tony says screw F1, and instead next year we get the first Annual 24 Hours of Indianapolis with a field of 50 ALMS cars.

I am not sure that is true. While the fan outrage may have been more dramatic at another venue, it more than likely would have been short term as F1 fans in other parts of the world are more knowledgeable of the political BS that makes up F1 racing. On the other hand, the US fan base is what F1 desperately needs. The market is completely untapped, where the average motorsports fan in the US doesn�t know much about F1 or understand it. The percentage of US motorsports fans that follow F1 is very small compared to the rest of the world. F1 needs a much bigger fan base in the US because it will allow F1 to attract more sponsors and the truth is it is all about the $$$$. This type of debacle will only help to destroy F1�s perception in the US motorsports fan�s view that is sort of interested in F1. The damage it has cost will be difficult to access and will be more long term than short term. However IMHO it will have any long term effect on the hardcore F1 fans that already exist.

It won't happen but all you guys who attended the race should have your money refunded. The promoters of the Indy F1 race promised that in consideration for the price of your ticket, you would be allowed to watch a F1 race. Since there was no race, they failed to deliver on their promise. This is comparable to going to see a NY play and having only 20% of the actors appear on stage.

Bet: I see where you are coming from, but there are other sports that thrive and prosper, without a huge US involvement, most notably football (soccer). I guess with the addition of China to the ranks of F1 venues and India also making some noise, I wonder if the US is really needed. Do they really need to add more races, or are there enough locations that one can start dropping the less desirable locations. The truth is that F1 has been back in the USA for a couple of years, and it hasn't really had a major resurgence. Without a US driver, it is very difficult to see US interest grow to the level that Brazil, Italy or Germany have in sport. While Ferrari flags aside, the amount of nationalism at an F1 racing is truly refreshing. I know Redbull has a guy all set, but it might be too little, too late. I have only been to two F1 events in my life, the US and Montreal. I know I will never go back to the US Grand Prix.

Being honest - only one guy turned up - M Schumacher minardis won;t win neither will jordan and ferrari has team orders I will dispute the charge with AMEX unless my tickets are refunded

Montreal will be next year for me

Just curious why you would go to Montreal, but not Indy. I'm not a Tony George fan because of the champcar/IRL thing, but he's totally blameless. The people who were at fault here, the FIA and Michelin, will be the same people at Montreal, and every other F1 race. If anything, Tony George probably deserves the ultimate in support for the US Grand Prix, if he chooses to run it in the future. He invested a HUGE amount of money out of his own pocket to bring F1 back to the U.S., despite the fact that the deal gave him almost nothing other than concession revenue. That investment is looking extremely shaky right now, and he had virtually no voice in what went on over the weekend.

main reason is that i've been to indy twice now, neither race was that great. Montreal will be new to me. I may well go to indy as well - depending if I have got over my pout

The FIA failled to see the big picture. They are essentially in the end puting on a show and are in the entertainement business. The fans rule. Yes Michelin f..up, that can and probaly will be dealt with in the future ( 1 tire manufacturer in the future ) but Max M. should have installed the shicane and had the race striken from the championship and still have put on the show despite any protest or the lack of total agreement amoungs al teams ( Ferrari ). For the sake of F1 and the fans and not for the sake of the championship and the rules. He took a much to bureacratic approach. You must be able to see beyond the Box. Pierre

I look at it this way, Tony and Bernie are two of a kind. Don't really care about the fans, just their own little (very wealthy) worlds. Combining IRL and Champ Car specs while sanctioned different races would reduce Tony's influence. Good for the fans, bad for Tony. With the GPWC in the wings, what does Bernie have to loose by being a total jerk about "the rules"? Michelin have done a Lorena Bobbit on themselves by not doing the engineering required, which so obviously was done by Bridgestone. So we have historically divisive racing figures and a company that can't get it right. And the fans get screwed. I agree with the comments had this happened at Imola, Catyluna, Brazil, or other venues, the fans would not have been as restrained as those at Indy. The potential for serious damage at Monaco is far greater than that at Indy, but for other reasons. Can you really believe the loading at turn 13 is that much different than the Parabolica? It stinks and I blame in order; Michelin, Michelin, Michelin, Bernie, Tony. I was going to call into Wind Tunnel last night and ask Despain to take the Michelin tire off his desk.

STRSHP "It stinks and I blame in order; Michelin, Michelin, Michelin, Bernie, Tony. I was going to call into Wind Tunnel last night and ask Despain to take the Michelin tire off his desk." I wouls tend to agree with you on that one. Pierre

I didn't really followed on what happen..all I know is that if this would have happened in Montreal, the fans reactions would have been very very ugly.

I'm still shaking my head in disbelief... this was absolutely surreal. I am a serious F-1 fan. And have been lucky enough to work as a track official at several F1 races held in Mexico in the early 90's. Michelin f'd up big indeed... but at least they had the cojones to admit their huge mistake. On the other hand, lets not forget, Bridgestone/Firestone didn't react fast enough in replacing their crappy Wilderness AT tires installed on Ford Exploders. It took several deaths to remedy this. And that is why I'll continue to use Michelin tires in all my vehicles. The damage done to the image of F-1 in the US is probably irreparable. But imagine if a driver's life was lost instead... It has been tough educating my NASCAR fan neighbors about F-1... Now I won't even bother...

I'm going to wait to hear the real story. M did send new tires in plenty of time but the powers that be didn't allow them. I've been to F1 Indy four times. Luckily didn't go this year. There is a very cozy relationship betweem Ferrari, F1 and Bridgestone. Too Cozy, and Bernie can't be trusted. I've never trysted Firestone/Bridgestone anyway. My gut tells me there's a whole lot more to this than reported thus far. I hope Michelin bows out of F1 next year.

The new tires is an interesting wrinkle. Bernie says,"the rules are the rule. No changing of tires". They could have allowed both tire manufacturers to put on new tires for the race and then its even. Chalk it up to a screw up and fine Michelin big money. Fans are happy the race goes on. But Ferrari cries foul and F1 agrees with them. Ferrari get the win handed to them, boos from the fans not with standing. So 10 points goes to Scheuy, who is not going to refuse them, and 10 to Ferrari. Now they have some sort of chance of saving their season. The tifosi are probably really happy about that turn of events. Smacks of the days when Porsche was winning everything and the rules were changed to make sure they could not dominate. Everything is politics. US F1 fans are the runt of the litter, no power no influence with Tony talking for us. OOH boy. what a cocked hat

I actually read that even the new tires was deemed not safe! apparently they shoulf have useed the barca-spec tires interesting commentary well articulated http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press...200605-01.html

The FIA is the governing body of F1. They're job is to enforce the rules....why should they be blamed for doing so?

My understanding is that the FIA said that Mich. had alternatives. You can't tell me that the cars can't be programmed not to exceed a specific RPM so that is what they should have done to limit the speed of the cars. It is really no different than having bad aerodynamics that won't allow you to take a corner beyond a certain speed. Bottom line - Michelin screwed the pooch and, as a result, F1 got a huge black eye. I would not be surprised if this signaled the end of the U.S. GP. Barry

"interesting commentary well articulated". P-car fanatic. Not sure I agree. While interesting commentary, it is one sided and attempts to shift all blame to Michelin. While I am on board with that particular sentiment, the fact that the FIA did not anticipate this issue before Sunday is beyond belief. Seems that after the Fri session with the failures, someone should have stood up and said something needed to be done. Think is shows disregard for the US market (they would not have taken that chance at Imola for instance) by Michelin. I will just buy Toyo, Yoko, Bridgestone, BFG, and might even consider Goodyear, though I doubt that.

I had the good fortune to be a guest of a team sponsor this weekend in Indy and was in the garage, in the luxury suite and able to access team members and hear/ask what was going on. It was fascinating and the media still hasn't got most of this story correct. The problems were evident Friday, after Schumacer and Zonta of Toyota suffered tire-related accidents (Schumacher was scratched from the race and dispatched home to Germany). That afternoon, Michelin did autopsys on all the teams tires and things didn't look good. There was hope that new tires could be flown in but Michelin stated they could not vouch for the safety of those tires either. By Saturday afternoon, most teams already knew there would be no race! I saw this because of two observations. First, Toyota won the poll. They did this by running a very light fuel load in the qualifying. The rules state that you must start the race with the fuel you had in the tank at the end of qualifying but with no race expected, this was not a problem and Toyota wanted to get a poll(their first) to try and salvage some pride and excitement for their sponsors. In other words, they knew Satruday their would be no race so they went for a poll and got it. Secondly, their were thousands of loud, singing, vocal Columbians at the track on saturday, there were very few on Sunday. Every other year, the Columbians have been loudly rooting for Montoya on Sunday but not this year. The talk in the pits was that somehow, Williams mangaged to get word to them that there would be no race so they didn't come. I don't know for sure if that is true but their abscence Sunday was very noticeable. In short, the Michelin teams knew on Saturday they weren't going to race on Sunday, they should never have sold tickets for Sunday, it was an act of bad faith to say the least. I still had a blast drinking Champagne, eating foie gras and hanging with the Euro Swells, but the race itself was a farce.

it does seem one-sided but I cannot see how anyone but michelin is at fault

dadc4s, thanks for the insight. Peter Windsor or someone said much the same thing about Toyota just before the start. Something about the "important US market" and the pole being important. Your story really does fit well with the "facts" as they seem to be. There was an interesting picture of 5 of the team mangers, sans sound, talking amongst themselves right after a discussion with Bernie. Probably making sure no one broke ranks. The absence of the singing Coumbians just adds to the feeling of betrayal.

I would have liked to have been a flie on the wall at one of the off-record bernie meetings I am sure the air was a dark shade of blue

So basically what some of you guys are saying is that if Tim Duncan wears out his shoes in the NBA Finals they should just shorten the game from 48 to 40 minutes? Perhaps they could just throw a 3rd hoop worth 5 points in the center of the court to slow the pace down..BUT only for this one game and because the shoe manufacture screwed up. Michelin messed up and FIA has a job to do. They would have done the same exact thing regardless of the track at hand. It's unfortunate that it had to happen on US soil...because otherwise 99% of americans wouldn't even of known about it.

Williams getting word to the Columbians....??? Montoya drives for West Mclaren Mercedes.

Oops, I meant to say Mclaren, I am still remembering last year when Montoya worked for Williams. On other thing I found fascninating, Just after the Michelin cars pittend, a fax from the CEO of Toyota was read in our paddock lounge which attempted to apologize while at the same time not admit any wrongdoing. What was fascinating was seeing the Japaneese buisnessmen in out group snap to attention and bow at the mere mention of the name of the Toyota leader, he has god-like status there.

After driving 12 hours to see this, I was pretty pissed. The only thing that made up for it was the Porsche Super Cup race. Anyone know who the poor devil in the Dell Supercup car was? I agree entirely with dadsc4 regarding bad faith and selling tickets that everyone knew wouldn't occur... Even doing the drivers parade. argh!!!!! As for people already aware of no race on saturday: On Saturday afternoon, as we watched the Supercup race from the stands, we ran into David Hobbs and not make a big deal out of things ask, how things going? His response at the time, seemed oddly out of place " I have been better"....Wow! I guess if we only knew what was coming... Then, in the airport, my friend who I went with, ran into Jenson Button in a bar! (guess they all don't get the schumi treatment). He said exactly what dadsc4 said regarding Toyota and qualifying with pole with virtually no gas.

Fan sues over Grand Prix 'race' Larry Bowers, a Colorado resident, has filed a class action lawsuit against the Federation de l�Automobile (FIA), Formula One Group, Formula One Administration, Michelin Tires and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway following Sunday�s United States Grand Prix. Bowers, represented by Indianapolis-based attorney William Bock III, filed suit claiming the 2005 USGP was fraudulent after 14 of the 20 drivers pitted and withdrew after the formation lap of the race because of a dispute surrounding the use of Michelin tires on the track. The lawsuit claims Formula One, the FIA, Michelin, the teams equipped by Michelin and the Indianapolis Motor Speedway forged an agreement allowing the Michelin teams to participate in the formation lap and then exit the track prior to the start of the race. �The alleged �race� participated by just three teams did not constitute a true grand prix race under FIA and Formula One rules in that the race was started with an insufficient number of participants,� the lawsuit reads. Bowers, who bought five tickets to this year�s race and has been a USGP ticket holder since its inception in 2000, is looking to receive a refund for the tickets as well as other costs paid toward attending the USGP. The controversy failed to dissuade some fans from showing up today at the Speedway to renew their tickets for next year's race. Others, however, were there to ask for refunds. Speedway officials were not offering refunds, but did take note of those requesting their money back.

Very entertaining thread. I am curious why we seek to blame someone or some company? The question is what should be done in the future. I understand there is a group responsible for enforcing rules, but the rules should not conflict with safety concerns. Unfortunately all of the safety concerns were not thoroughly understood a priori[I]. This is why there are people involved to interpret the rules and make judgements based on situational analysis. I think if Michelin thought there was a safety concern they acted apropriately (although I'll jump out on a limb guessing there are some people that would like to see the crashes). I also think the proceeds from the race should be refunded (but I doubt they will). Will this effect whether I will buy Michelin? (I long for the old Yko 008s) I wouldn't boycott a company that made a decision for safety over potential $. Just my $.02.

I'm no big Ferrari fan (though my two sons are because they're big MS fans) but Michelin didn't do its homework. BS had some crappy tires earlier this year and paid the price, having to withdraw their car before the finish because of excess wear and that stupid tire rule. Nobody cried foul because of that. Ferrari and BS went to work and made better tires. BS probably had some inside info because of the sister Firestones on their IRL crapwagons and used it to their advantage. Michelin is a BIG company and should have done the same homework and brought a tire that would hold up. The resurfacing had something to do with it, but they've had those forces on those tires through that corner ever since 2000- I was at that race and thank God there was a race that day. I place the blame at Michelin's feet-- and as others have said, can you imagine what the crowd, say in Brazil, would have done in the same situation? Or Imola for that matter...

What is important here - the rules or the race? Michelin got it wrong. The went public and said they got it wrong. Once they said there is a chance of crashes if you race with these tyres that was the end of the discussion. How would the law suit look if they had raced and bits of car ended up in the crowd - or a driver died? So the problem was there. however the rule enforcers (FIA, Mosely) decided that any compromise just to have a race for the fans and the public was not possible. This is what I can not forgive. They could have given all the points to Bridgestone runners only and had an event that the world could enjoy. But no, the rules have been up held, the "race" went ahead and we all now know that F1 cares about its rules more than it cares about giving its audience value. Michelin causeed the problem but FIA refused to do anything about it !!!

I think if Michelin thought there was a safety concern they acted apropriately (although I'll jump out on a limb guessing there are some people that would like to see the crashes). I believe that Michelin acted out of PYA rather than some noble reason. If they said it was fine to race and their tires failed reulting in crashes, injuries, and maybe even deaths, Michelin would have been sued big time. As far as crashes are concerned, I have never met a F1 fan who went to the race to see crashes. All the fans I know look at crashes as a nuisance rather than something that provides entertainment value. All that F1 fans would like to see is a competitive race and maybe with a little luck, a well executed pass or two.

Seems to me that knowing in advance that the race was going to be a fiasco is more than bad faith. In legal terms it is called: FRAUD.

JUNE 21, 2005 The madness continues We hear that the FIA has ordered Michelin to supply it with full details of all of its tyre failures in recent times and that the federation has instructed the French tyre maker that the information will be put in front of an independent technical expert to decide whether or not Michelin's F1 tyres are dangerous. We have not not seen the letter from FIA President Max Mosley to Michelin but apparently it suggests that the outcome of this could be the exclusion of Michelin from the World Championship, which would leave seven teams with no tyres for future races. As most of the cars are designed specifically for Michelin tyres this would mean that cars could not be run because of safety issues. We expect to see the teams providing a robust defence of the charges against them and we would expect to see a similar reaction from Michelin. The alternative is for the companies involved to begin to quit the F1 scene - which is quite possible now - which would be the start of an even bigger disaster for the sport. The FIA World Council next week will be the most significant FIA meeting for more than 10 years with the major question not being the details of what happened in Indianapolis but rather whether the best interest of the sport is to have a World Championship featuring the best of the best or a ruined championship over which the FIA has full control to do as it pleases. In the second case, it is likely that there will be a rival championship featuring the refugees of F1 as we now know it. For us, there is only one acceptable answer but we must see if the World Council members agree or whether they believe that it is best to kill what we have and start again with something new.

A few thoughts: Tony George is not blameless. He knew there would be no race at least 90 minutes before the scheduled start, but most likely 24 hours before. There are many screens on the track to disseminate information, yet the entire farce was allowed to go on up til the minute the announcer said "There will be 6 cars in the race!" when the red lights turned off. Clearly he knew as well. The fans were not only cheated, we were deceived. Why? Clearly 1 reason is because the vendors are the only source of George revenue. Another reason seems to be with Bernie. I will speculate that his agreement states he must get 20 cars to the grid. The entire sham acomplished that. Another reason is the upcoming termination of the Concorde agreement. Ferrari is the only manufacturer on board with Bernie. 9 of 10 teams said they would compete with a chicane. Only Ferrari said it would not. The FIA should have forced the race to go on without Ferrari (or called their bluff), except that would screw Bernie with having any base to continue his ridiculous domination of F1. So, no race occurred because Ferrari would have been pissed. Michelin"s culpability is apparant. Firestone(aka Bridgestone) tested at Indy for a month in May. Michelin did nothing. Had Michelin had a tire in which they had confidence, all 14 cars could have started from the pits after a tire change, and accepted the time penalty. That penalty would have been wiped out by the first safety car. Since the rules allow tire changing for "safety" reasons, the clear implication is that Michelin had no safe tire. I had 8 tickets. A refund is appropriate, but it's meaningless in the face of the fact that 8 men lost a day of their lives. Father's Day to boot. Everyone involved should hold their heads in shame. Michelin, Bernie, Mosely, George, and everyone who was complicit in keeping the shameful secret. If the news had been broadcast Saturday, all of us would have stayed home, and Ferrari would have won their points in front of empty stands. AS

There was no secret about the possiblity of the Michelin teams not running. Speedtv.com reported the possiblity on its web site Saturday night and printed parts of the letter from Michelin to the FIA. By Sunday morning all the major F1 websites were reporting the possible boycott and/or the demand for a chicane. The late evening news by WISHTV 8 also reported on Saturday night about the tire problme and that an announcement would be made at 11 am by Bernie. The announcement did not amount to much other than the FIA would not approve a chicane. I have no love lost for Tony George because I hold him responsible for the death of open wheel racing in the US with his IRL vs. CART power play. However, unfortunately I think he is innocent on this occassion. It seems from Paul Stoddart's comments that George, the IMS and even Bernie Eccelstone were under the impression that some type of race involving the Michelin teams would take place up until about when the pit lane opened. At this point it became very clear that Mosley and the FIA had no intention of letting anything happen. This is also supported by comments made by ITV reporters that the FIA waited until the very last moment to fully crush anything suggested by the Michelin teams. The other thing to realize is that the politics are so heavy in F1 right now you had to wonder if it was merely a political more or really a problem. Much like Minardi in Australia. They claimed they would not be able to field cars with the 2005 spec. aero dynamics. The FIA called the bluff and said too bad then you don't get race and will be in violation of your contract. Then "poof" new aerodynamic treatments for the Minardi cars appear after it was evident that the FIA was not going change its opinion. You just had to think the USGP was another standoff like that and you were just waiting for someone to blink. No one blinked and they crashed right into each other. Did the fans and paying customers get cheated? Absolutely. Was it George's fault? No. Bernie? Everyday it looks more and more like the answer to that is No and that Bernie's power and influence is slipping (although a theory is he is letting it appear that way so that he can buy back control for the Banks at a cheaper price). I too was a paying customer of the fiasco.

With *** holes suing for fraud, I wouldn't blame FIA if they pulled out of the US. It has nothing to do with fraud ,it has only to do with money. If I were Michelin, I would pull out of F!, as soon as the contract allows. I personally only buy Michelins, and will continue to do so.

David, If you were there, you would understand there was a fraud perpetrated upon the attendees in order to meet the economic objectives of the parties. George didn't want the concession stands to have no trade Bernie needed to get 20 cars on the grid (but not in the race) Michelin knows that once a car is set up for a high speed race, changing to a low speed race is a complete disadvantage for all those who came prepared. Their request for a chicane was a sham. The only honest approach was to admit to the fans that the race would only have 6 cars and offer free tickets for next year. That would give the crooks a chance to sue each other to see who would pay in the end. Instead, the message boards at the track (and there are many big ones) stated "Renew your tickets for next year's race and get a free lap around the track on Thursday" The announcers were clearly prepared, as the loudspeaker blared "It will be a 6 car race!" as 14 cars pulled into the pits and the red lights extinguished. There was not one mention of the fact that the field was depleted and there was no race. This was stated before it was clear the cars were not changing tires. The Ferrari times were over 2 seconds off the qualifying pace, despite being in qualifying trim. Only the Minardis seemed to be trying, but were 200 yards back by one lap. It was a shameful act by all involved. Michelin's actions were the most repulsive. There was no apology, just an attempt to weasel thru it by creating the diversion of a chicane. Personally, I hope the FIA penalty is cancellation of the French GP. If the Michelin cars are penalized, they should experience the penalties simultaneously, rather than one at a time. This was a total engineering screw-up, and their response was arrogant and deceitful. AS

I don't know why my not being there has anything to do with it. Unless, of course, that's some sort of a dig. I've been to each USGP since they came to I(ndy except this year. My opinion isn't changed. Those suing are doing it for the money only, and attorneys taking those cases are doing it for the same reason. You refer to the crooks suing each other. I'm not sure which crooks you're referring to. Racing is racing, things happen.

Although I was extremely unhappy with the way things went, I disagree that there was an intent to defraud the public. Although there was talk all weekend of a boycott, all the involved parties were hopeful until the very end that some compromise would be reached. There was still serious talk going on until 45 minutes before the "race" began. Even at the start, Schumacker claims he didn't know for sure what the Michelin teams were going to do, and I believe him. I don't think Tony George knew for sure either; I think he held out some hope that the teams would yield at the last minute. I think there was reason to hold out that hope. If you listened to the team radio excerpts as the teams went into the pits, there was lots of frenzied talk about what the other Michelin teams were doing; in other words, they were afraid that some of the teams might break the boycott at the last minute and go for some easy points. David Coulthard was still begging to race after entering the pits, and stayed in his car in the pits longer than anyone else. In the end, I was very pissed off, but I don't feel I was defrauded.

I agree with you 100% How the FIA could green light a race after tire company would not gurantee the integrity of the race is far more reprehensible than a tire company that made an enourmous miscalculation. Very sad, because the FIA are still today, continuing to state that tires were safe if certain restrictions were followed. How they can guarantee this without having viewed the data (even as of today) is beyond comprehension. If a fatality had occured as a result of tire failure ,even with restrictions, in legal terms this would be called depraved indifference and the FIA directors would be criminaly responsible. Ayrton Senna's team were held responsible in Italy for their driver's fatal accident were only recently fully acquited. And that was for a trajedy that no one could forsee.

Some comic relief...

I fully agree with Irish driver, except for the fraud issue. Evidence for intent to commit fraud is present. The fans were given no opportunity to decide if they wanted to give up a day on the chance there would be an exhibition race instead of a championship contest. Since all parties knew there could be no race on the original track, and that Michelins wee safe only f there was a chicane, if a race had been run at all, it could only have been with no points to Michelin participants. With that, all parties knew over 100,000 people would not get what they paid for. The fans should have been notified and offered refunds or free tickets next year. I believe this is similar to the situation CART faced at Texas some years earlier. But, absolutely no information was disseminated. The big screen message read "Renew your tickets Monday and get a free lap of the track on Thursday before next year's event" The track announcer had a prepared exclamation regarding 6 cars at the race launch. Why was the secret kept? To preserve the economic best interest of the principal parties. The economic loss to the fans is really far beyond the ticket prices. All food and concession sales would have been lost. The cost of transportation, food and lodging to get to and from the track ( I live only 150 miles away, and those costs exceeded one ticket) All weekend hotel and restaurant sales were wasted (estimated by the city to be over $100,000,000) Any company that used the event for business promotion wasted their entire PR cost and lost the economic advantage the event ws to have accomplished. This includes the sponsors and the cost of sponsorship in the US TV advertisers lost their market And every fan there lost Father's Day. My family supported my going, and made the sacrafice of not having Dad at home because they knew I would enjoy it. I have been involved in racing for over 30 years and have attended lots of poorly run events, but not one approached the absolute disregard for the fans seen here. I have also not seen similar behavior in any other sport. Rainouts, Floods, storms, earthquake damage, plane crashes etc. have all resulted in cancelled matches, but the interest of the fans has always been protected. Every other sport has a "For the good of the sport" clause which allows the governing body to mandate an outcome. This sham was perpetrated for the good of the financial stakeholders. Re Davidmichael's points: No dig intended. I just meant the message boards and the announcer's prepared exclamation made it very clear that there was intent to deceive the fans so no one left before the start. Since lawyers work for money, you are right in that everyone who sues wants money. However, this case is about making sure the damaged party is compensated. That's justice. I personally don't care about the money (8 tickets for about $85 each). I was cheated and I'm trying to decide if I would ever return to Indy if a future event is held. Unless the fans are made whole, I don't think so. It goes back to that "Trick me once, shame on me...." parable. Things do happen in racing, but up til now everybody has determined a fair way to fulfill their obligations to the fans. These crooks didn't. AS

I think the fans will get their ticket money back, as you point out, the losses for the fans far exceed the ticket cost, however. The Indpls. Motor Speedway has not commented yet one way or the other about refunds. I'm sure they're waiting to see how things play out with the FIA and Max Mosley's suggestion to Michelin that they pay up. Of course, the biggest charade of all is the scum-sucking attorneys who don't wait for the Speedway to make a decision--they were typing out their lawsuit before Coulthard shut his engine down. Really a sad, sad, way to make a living--lining things up to make sure you get a cut of the refund even before it's been determined that your services are needed. How do these guys look at themselves in the mirrror without putting a gun to their head? Sorry for the anti-class action attorney rant, but I feel a bit better now.

Been watching all of the threads on this subject. Went over www.speedtv.com and cruised the Formula 1 board. A lot of flaming going on over there. Seems for our interests at least Cup race was good. Bad Michelin/good Michelin, Bad Bernie/Good Bernie, Bad Max/Bad Max.... Blame, compensation, yada, yada. I still hold that Michelin is the root cause of the whole **** up. Then we get emperer Max (do you see how Bernie is getting off easy in most commentary?) doing his Al Haig impression. Paul Stoddart opening up the door for a peak from his perspective and Jean Todt making like he just wasn't consulted about anything as important as a race. Michelin starts it with a monumental screw up (Goodyear had some of the same issues when they were in racing big time and alwas found a way to deal with it. Remember the Hoosier/Goodyear fight when Goodyear brounght bad tires to the track and both companies worked to mount Hoosiers for everyone?) and tries to shift the blame. Follow the bouncing ball if you can. I think I will just support the folks who race for the fun of it; SCCA and the vintage guys. Someone said they couldn't see Fangio, or Moss, or Ascari, or Stuck, or any of the drivers from the "glory days" of racing being part of this circus. I don't know, maybe this is an accurate reflection of our current world. This debacle is beginning to look like the NHL or MLB when they went on strike. I have followed F1 since the '60's, watched the egos kill open wheel in the US (thanks Tony) and now see these spoiled kids killing the beauty of F1. Is anyone going to watch a race again for the foreseeable future without thinking its all about getting your money to them? Just a few thoughts for Friday