Driving a 996 on ice, slush or snow hard?

I am currently in the market to for a 2002 to 2004 Carrera S or 4S. Our winters have become very mild, typically only fighting ice and slush. We get deep snow maybe 2 or 3 times a season. Do I need a 4S or would just a 2S be sufficient? Once I have the car I plan on buying a set of snow tires and rims. What do you guys do to protect your car from sand and stones, any rally style mud flaps available? Thanks

C2 with snows

I recently trudged my C4 on snows through some 12-16" drifts. It was a little touch-and-go in a few places but I can't believe you wouldn't be fine with a C2 on snows in lesser depths of snow.

C4 is radical in the snow and ice. C2 is sufficient but nothing near the C4 point and shoot ability. Clear bras for some. I don't know about mud flaps.

This is my 4th winter on snows with a C2 and it's a blast.

I live in the foothiils above Denver, Colorado I use my '99 C4 to rally up to the mountains to go snowboarding. It is the most fun car I have ever driven in the snow (I have driven a many...). The car is amazing and fun with good snow/ice tires in the snow. At slow-medium speeds, (in an open parking lot for instance) the car is nimble and fluid with precise and controlled drifting, almost like driving a snowmobile or jet-ski (PSM=off). At higher speeds or on very slick ice, set your speed properly before a turn. A throttle lift in a slick turn in a 911 can easily spin it. With a C4, it is easier to save such a spin with reapplication of the throttle(vs C2). Unless I am specifically having fun in a semi-controlled environment, I leave the PSM turned on. I try to drive at a slip angle just below the threshold of the PSM. In my car, there is a decent amount of drift before it will kick in. Thus, plenty of fun with the PSM to save you if you push a little too hard. If you enter a corner a little too fast, there is NO need to lift with the PSM and AWD in a C4(S), just steady throttle with good RPM torque and the car will go where you point it (within reason). I have both a clear bra and full bra. Presently, I am running with just the hood-cap portion of the bra. I just noticed a fingernail sized tear from a rock when washing it (driving a 911 in winter = lots of car washing). I'll go back to the full bra after the next wax for the rest of the season. While some people might have a hard time seeing a bra on a 996, they are probably also the same people who might freak out even worse to see it just before I wash it after a good storm. There is a limit where the SUV's or trucks are simply required! DEEP (>10-12") snow and especially deep unplowed, slushy or frozen, rutted snow. While those conditions are rare, you can easily lose little pieces of plastic from under the car, like brake ducts. Powder snow(>12") will start to come up over the top of the car making it very hard to see. In addition, depending on the snow density, the body can become high-centered. Once again, common sense required...

Great tips!^^^^ With PSS10, what is your ride height? Do you raise for the winter?

I live in Upstate NY, and just bought a 2002 C2 Carrera with new PZeros. The remainder of my fleet is: 1) 2010 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4, Hemi; 2) 2008 Audi A6 quattro, with "all season Sport tires"; 3) 2006 Acura MDX, with Michelin Cross Terrain tires (wife's DD). Of the three, the MDX is the best in snow, followed by the Ram. The Cross Terrains are spendy and wear rapidly, but are excellent winter rubber. The Ram came new with 20" Sport Truck tires, which suck, but will have to be run to ruin before I get something better, or trade on a CPO Cayenne !! The Audi is easily the best balanced, but is severely compromised by 18" summer meats masquerading as "all season" tires. If I bought proper winter rims and tires, the Audi would be outstanding in the snow. However, when it is crappy, I just take the Ram. I got the Carrera all but stuck on a tiny snow hump at the end of the driveway when I drove it home from the dealer. PZeros are lousy snow tires!! If you drive one of these in the winter: 1) proper snow tires are essential; 2) no matter what tires, if the snow is really deep, you may be stopped. Finally, it gets *** cold where I live, and people here track mud and snow and slush and ice and crud wherever they go all winter. You might consider a hopped up Audi A4 or a simple winter rat for the worst of the weather. Having said that, I admire you for driving your rig in the winter. To some extent, I wish I had the stones to drive mine....

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They are lousy in the Summer too.....can get loud. Fast forward to the Summer, when you go through them think about the Sumi's. Sorry to hijack.

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LOL Snow tires are key. My C4 is unstoppable as long as the snow isn't deeper than 6". Last winter, on a snowy road, I had to slow way down, because I realized the cop I was approaching in front probably wouldn't be pleased if I passed him - while still going under the speed limit - when he wasn't comfortable going over 30 MPH.

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+1 I run Blizzaks on dedicated winter wheels on my C4S, and it does great. I tend to park it when the snow is at 4 inches rather than 6 - I take the Cayenne on those days.

Snow tires are key. Beyond that, it comes down to ground clearance. Once you get hung up, 2 or 4 doesn't matter as much if they can't touch the ground. i don't know that mudflaps are in fashion anymore given so many "vinyl" products that can be applied to protect painted surfaces.

I am on my Third season with my Porsche C4S winter driving and I don't believe I have driven a more capable winter vehicle. I have owned a Toyota Tundra, Nissan Titan, Dodge 3500 4x4, Dodge Durango, Jeep Grand Cherokee, Subaru STI, R32 Skyline GTR, GSX Eclipse, BMW M3, and BMW X5 and a handful of others. Except for ground clearance it has been my favorite winter vehicle. As said by others though, the proper tire selection is key. My family owns a few tire shops so I rotate through tires fairly regularly I have run A Bridgestone Blizzack in a 265 width, a Pirelli Sottozero in a 265 and 295 width, a Dunlop Wintersport 3D in a 265 and 295, and lastly Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 in a 265 width. Out of all of these I prefer the Dunlop Wintersport 3D's in the 285 with. It gives the most consistent wear since they are closest to a proper width, and like in my home town, our winters are not as severe anymore, we only get a few heavy snows a year, streets are usually plowed pretty quickly etc. The wintersport 3D compromises performance the least out of any tire while still providing decent winter traction. My next selection would be the Blizzaks but they were a little to soft for my even as a 265 stretched but provided the greatest winter traction. IMO Pirelli winters are absolute garbage and will not put another set on any vehicle. I like the Michelin X Ice, but they are not in my size, the Pilot Alpin is not bad, offers performance similar to the Dunlop but not as good winter traction. I have probably been through 15-16 sets of winter tires in the 9 years I have been driving. When I first started driving and our winters were a little harsher I preferred a mushier tire like the Nokian RSI's or their studded tires, or the Blizzacks. But as winters have become more mild and I have been getting more high performance cars, I have been preferring the feel of performance winter tires. On a side note I recommend having an emergency kit in your car for winter. I have a 200 piece tool kit with socket set, screw drivers, allen keys, wrenches, and a hammer. I also have a blow torch (I once had my wheels frozen stuck when brake heat melted the snow in the wheels, then froze them stuck) 20ft 10,000lb tow rope,80ft of 5,000lb tie down strap (so I can winch it out if necessary) heavy duty booster cables, first aide kit, flares, food and water supply and a collapsible shovel. I got this shovel for christmas and it fits perfectly in the 996 trunk.

I've done several Chicago winters with my C2 on snows and the car has been unstoppable (even depths of 12" - 14"). My biggest problem is that deep snow pulls the plastic splitter off of the GT3 front spoiler (this has happend twice). Fortunately both times I heard it pop off and picked it up to re-attach during a thaw.

plastic undertrays and brake cooling ducts can take a beating as well... I ran Pirelli for a few years and switched to Blizzak. IMHO, the Blizzaks were a much better snow tire and were superior to Pirelli in icy conditions. If they use sand on the roads where you live, you may want to source some rally style splash guards or something a bit tamer. I used a set of splash guards that Tweeks sold that were held on with removable spring clips. The worked great and were easily removed in the Spring. I'll post a pic if I can find them

Thanks guys, much appreciated. I like the idea of a full bra for winter with a clear bra under to prevent any damage from the full bra....belts and suspenders.

Greetings from the Great White North - you'll be fine with a 4, 4S or 2 with PSM. Hell, you'll be better than fine! I've been driving my 4S all winter with dedicated snow tires, and I have to say it's been awesome! Traction like no other, and it stops on a dime. There is nothing I love more than being in a blizzard at a stoplight next to some guy in an SUV who is looking over dubiously at my car - who then eats my dust as I pull a block ahead of him (without even trying) while he skates over the ice in the intersection! I also find the inside air in the car heats up really fast too! (NB: -32 Celsius equals -25 Fahrenheit). In short, if you get a 4 or a 4S, I think you'll be great. The guy I bought my winter tires and rims from had them on his C2, and he reported no problems, other than that he stayed off the roads when there was a huge dump of snow. I have a clear bra on mine, but I honestly wouldn't do a full bra over that. "old school" bras are a pain in the butt - you've got to take them off to dry every time they get wet. I think you'll be plenty fine with the clear bra.

Also, one other thing you may want to have in your emergency kit is this thing, the "Tow Truck in a Box". While I've never had to use it with my 4S, I used it a few times with my Lexus LS430, and it worked like a charm every time!

that thing is for NASCAR!!! wont work for cars that turn right

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WTF!?!?!?!?! where did you get that thing it looks awesome! My only question with it is what prevents it from being pulled around the wheel or slipping around? I have tried using a snowboard bag for another vehicle in a similar fashion but the car just pulled it around the wheel since it was not planted properly on anything.

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Hey Jordan - I'm in Calgary. It's got "grooves" on both sides to give traction and prevent "fly out" (but I still wouldn't stand behind the car if you know what I mean). They sell it all over for about $50 (Cdn Tire, Zellers, Wal-Mart, etc.) It comes apart in about 3 or 4 segments, so it's easy to store (I have it in the spaces next to my spare tire).

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Well I guess I know what I am buying tomorrow

I've got a C2 with 17" Pirelli SnoSport tires on it. My car doesn't have LSD, and I was concerned as we got into winter. We have had several snows in the 3 - 4 inch variety, and I've had no problems getting to the plowed streets. Last week, after a 5" snow, and the snowplows were "good" enough to fill in the bottom of my driveway, I put it in Reverse, gave it some juice and literally plowed my way through the heavy, tall stuff at the bottom of the driveway. I don't know what would have happened if I had to do that over an entire block, but the momentum and traction of going over the heavy snow was sufficient to get me to the street. From that point on, it was no big deal. I admit that I have lost it on an "off ramp," and have done some donuts in a parking lot. This isn't a tractor, and I do need to be careful. But, driving sanely will easily pull me through this winter. I am confident. As far as the bra - the clear bras are a little pricey depending on where you go, but they are worth their weight in gold. They stay on, you don't need to take them on and off, and drying out a wet bra in the winter is just a PAIN. Ask your wife!! I put a clear bra on mine (car, not wife) and covered the bottom half of the trunk lid, the front bumper, the front part of the fenders, the mirrors, and the bottom of the rear bumper where it gets sprayed by the rear wheels. larry

Hmm, i didn't think there was a Carrera S in the 996? Only c4s and turbo s.

Can't speak for a C2 but drove a C4S for 2 years in the winter and the 08/09 winter was a b#tch around Hamilton. Driving a Turbo this winter. Best vehicles I've ever driven in the winter including all the SUV's and trucks I've had. Make sure you put snows on, wash it every week and don't forget underneath and you'll be fine.

Lovin' the turbo in the snow - blizzaks on 993 twists. Rolled through ten inches of light powder no problem last weekend.

Awesome pic! Bet that was great skiing that day.

Have Blizzaks too. Only tire available now that will fit our 11" rear wheels.

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I mounted them on 993 twists, which are 10" rears.

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I would have to say you are wrong on the Blizzak comment. I have the 11" wide turbo wheels on my porsche and have run a few tire options A Bridgestone Blizzack in a 265 width, a Pirelli Sottozero in a 265 and 295 width, a Dunlop Wintersport 3D in a 265 and 285, and lastly Michelin Pilot Alpin PA2 in a 265 width. Out of all of these I prefer the Dunlop Wintersport 3D's in the 285 with. The reason I say this is because I found the Blizzak's to me a little to mushy in dry conditions when you want to have fun with the car.

In snowy conditions skinny snow tires beat wide snow tires all day long. My rears tires are 295's in the summer and 225's in the winter.

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I should have been more specific. These were the only 275's I could find. I've run 265's in the past but didn't like the way they fit on 11" wheels. Since both of my sets of wheels are 11" rears and I don't want to go through the hassle of selling one set and buying a set with 10" rears, I decided to put on 275's. I had previously run 275's on the Dunlop Wintersports but they apparently are no longer available.

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Completely agree....skinnier is better in the snow. I run 295 in Summer and 265 Winter. A question to most is do you want to look good or drive better / safer in the Winter?

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I believe Dunlop has a 285/35/r18 in their wintersport 3D available still not the M3 but I do prefer the 3D and the 285 is closer to the factory recommended size. My family has a few tire shops so I am pretty familiar with every possible tire that will work on the 18x11 wheels. I go through a couple sets of winters a year and am fairly experienced with winter and summer tires in general. I know that a narrower tire gives you better traction in the snow/ice but I much prefer the feel of the 285 to the 265 width and find I am not actually sacrificing a huge amount in traction by the little bit of additional width.

Porsche recommends dropping to a 10-inch rear wheel for the C4S/turbo and running a 265 width tire. That's what I do, and it works well.

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That's the setup I have. Seems to work really well.

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Ditto on my C4S. But I run 18mm spacers on the back as even with the right wheel offset those suckers look like *** when mounted.

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True for snow. But I think a lot of people read that as true for winter , which it isn't. If, like me, your winter driving is largely urban and more about ice, moisture and cold pavement surface temps, taller, narrower tires are unnecessarily sacrificing safety and performance for no benefit. In those circumstances, you're better off with a winter performance tire in stock widths. It's gotta be about the right tool for the job.

265 is a stock width....I have them on 18x10's. Even though its splitting hairs I agree with your comment.

The last 2 New England storms we had (including yesterday) I drove my C4S with the factory snow set-up. It was great, and I was making it up inclines that other cars couldn't. One thing I noticed was this left to right pulling, almost like a floating feeling at 30-40 mph. I am sure the snow/slush had alot to do with it, but was that feeling the AWD system engaging and compensating for wheel slip?

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was your PSM light engaging? if not it most likely is just the snow... the awd drive brings power to the front to both wheels equally. But if slipping occurs, the brakes will try to slow the slipping wheel down (a form of traction control).

No PSM lights were going on. Maybe just the snow. The wheel/tire combo 225/265 is pretty wide for snows, so I bet there was some natural float going on. Once I got off the Merritt, while going down my road which was covered in snow, I gave it some gas and the PSM kicked in, it really works great and the car seemed very stable. I think I just have to get used to the handling charactoristics.

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True for a Mk I 996, but not a Mk II or a C4S. I agree 265 seems pretty wide to me for a snow tire, but I'm not sure how narrow a tire you could get on the C4S

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Presently, the car is at GT3 street spec; no adjustable drop-links, yet . So, I am pretty low... I have been considering the ride-height change. Initially, that was my plan. IMHO - The primary benefit is related to ice chunks. Having some more clearance would be nice when you are coming up on a 6-8" chunk in the middle of the road. The next benefits would be ruts and deeper snow. So far, I am not planning on making the ride height change this year. The snow season came late in Denver (still running on the track in November at 50+ degrees). Now, April/May seem so close that I don't feel like paying for 2 alignments in the next few months. Plus, if we get a warm-spell, all I need to do is swap tires for a track day. ~~~ BTW - I am using Blizzak LM-25 tires: Front: 205/50/17 on 17x7.5 (exact diameter match to stock 25.1")(.5" narrower) Rear: 255/40/17 on 17x9 (slightly less diameter than stock 25.0" vs 25.3") (1" narrower) ~~~ Regarding the PSS10 and Sway Bar settings... I have been experimenting quite a bit this year. First: Sway Bars So far, I like the H&R (front and rear) set to the softest setting. I tried different combinations, but feel like sway should be as soft as possible. Then leave the oversteer/understeer bias control to the PSS10. (BTW - If I do go for ride-height adjustment next year, I'll probably also go for full sway disconnect) Next: PSS10 Normal (daily) Setting F=3, R=4 Bias= neutral to slight oversteer on slick conditions. More fun in an open parking lot with PSM off. Super slick conditions, pushing the limit of the car (mountain driving, not urban) F=2, R=2 Bias = neutral to slight understeer, safer at higher speeds, less "twitchy" Plenty of throttle oversteer and throttle-lift oversteer (pitch and catch), but the car is easier to save if it is pushed a little too far. More notes: If we have mostly dry weather, I'll tighten up 1 notch F and R, although staying even or slight stiffer bias to rear. I have run F=1, R=1 and F2,R1 and F1,R2. At the #1 settings the car bounces/rebounds too much over bumps. Kind of a porpoise effect, not good. I have tried stiffer front settings (i.e. F3,R2), but find the car pushes badly at slow speeds. For some perspective, here are some of my summer suspension settings: Sways: Front = middle, Rear=stiffest Normal Daily: F7,R8 slower, technical track(i.e. High Plains): F9,R10 faster, flowing track (i.e. Laguna Seca): F10,R10 ~~~~ A couple more thoughts... Weight is a big factor as well. Fully loaded down with two people and board/ski gear, etc the car does perform better (in snow/ice) than with just me. Assuming best possible performance, skinnier/thinner tires are better in snow, snowpacked, slush, however wider tires (up to stock widths) are better on ICE. So, choose your width depending on the typical conditions where you live. Just like everything else, there is compromise...best on ice is studded, but studded are LAME on dry (loud and slippery), etc. If you push the car when it is dry, or if you live where it is mostly dry with a few snowy days, stick to stock widths. If you push the skinny, snow tires on dry pavement, they will scare you on a freeway offramp you are used to hitting with your summer tires and simply wear out very quickly.