Dumbest pull-over ever !!

Seriously guys, this is my 3week as a P-car owner, and I have been pulled over 4 times already. None of them because of speed... I was randomly "picked" and tested for alcohol and all. The dumbest has to be last night as I was driving to a movie, a bored cop pulled me over and told me I was driving too fast - I was literally driving 35mph as I had seen him from far away. So I tell the guy that I was driving 35mph, in a 35mph area. Then this dumb F*** has the guts to reply "may be but there are ppl on the side walks and 35mph is too fast for a Friday night, this is reckless driving!!" - at this point I was 100% positive I could say anything and he would not care as he just wanted to show me how powerful of a city cop he was. The funniest thing is when he tells me that my car makes "unecessary noise". I am like: pal this is a porsche, not a prius so give me brake... anyway--- 20min later the guy hands out a citation and tells me that he will take me to jail next time he catches me driving so fast.... whatever... 35mph in a 35mph zone doesn't qualify as a violation in my books. Hey city cops, I have a word for you - How about you guys go chase real gangsters, while I am recklessly driving within the speedlimit !!

Pulled over 4 times in 3 weeks? Something's fishy here, what did he give you a citation for? Unsafe speed for conditions or something? There are times when the posted speed limit may not be safe. - Either you're being racially or otherwise profiled, of course I don't know your ethnicity. - Or you're just cruising the boulevards 24/7 and the cops sense something fishy, which is part of their job description. imho, I think you need some more perspective from Boston locals on your situation....

...okay. I guess you have to go to court to get rid of that one. Nice.

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I agree that there's something odd going on here. The OP has been pulled over more times in 3 weeks than I've been pulled over in my life. Funny thing is that in my experience Boston police and MA state police are not usually jerks like this (I used to live in MA), so I'm confused as to what's going on.

Actually, the first 3 were in NYC. That was the first one in Boston - btw what does a citation do? How long does it stay on my record? The other thing is that the guy told me I was not allowed to drive with my IL driving license, although when I registered my car 2 weeks ago, the lady at the counter told me I could drive for 30days with my IL license. If you ask me, I am really starting to see red with all this BS

how can you get a ticket for driving 35 in a 35 zone?? doesn't even sound logical!! How are you going to defend this in court?? and this cop should get fired for stupidity but then again about 99% of all cops should!

The guy just gave me a warning, but it's on a Citation ticket... makes no sense - the cop told me I should have driven 20mph due to the fact that there were ppl on the side walk... I still don't get that - ppl walk on the sidewalk all the time - isn't what happens in a city?? Bottom line, is that I have to pay nothing, I don't think any points have been withdrawn from my license, but I just don't want any record on file for somthing like that... what should I do?

call the borough prosecuto for a clarification and the consequences. after you get off the hook, a letter to the chief might be in order.

I'd write a nice letter to the mayer and police chief and .cc the DA. This level of harrassment should not be tolerated. If your car is non stock (esp exhaust), be careful as this guy may come after you again.

I had a similar situation when I lived in Dallas. The cop got my wife and me each. Her 3 times, me 4 times. Each time I called the DA and I had to go in to fight the ticket. I told the DA I was being targeted because I had out of state plates. The DA told me to change my plates. I informed the DA that my car was owned by the company I worked for and registered in the state where they were based. The DA told me to either get another job or get used to paying fines. We finally moved. Don't even begin to reason with me about cops with poor attitudes.

Well, I was pulled over for something like that once. The ticket was for "speed greater than reasonable". According to the lawyer I had at that time, that is usually used when someone is doing the speed limit during a blizzard or rain storm, but in your case he makes it sound like you were driving 35 through a crowd of people. Mine was thrown out of court. It was a really clear, cold night being on my knees at midnight on that back road.

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It's just a warning, there should be no fine, points, nor record on your license.

In my experience, the frequency with which you will be pulled over and the result of that exchange depends entirely on the way you conduct yourself. For example, I lived in Boston for awhile back in the 80's. I drove a Vette with a flashy white/red paint job the entire time. Loud aftermarket dual exhaust and license plate that read IXLR8 (I accelerate). I was in my late teens, early 20's at the time. You could certainly characterize my driving style as "spirited." With all these factors seemingly against me I was only pulled over 1 time in seven years. Why? because I drive with the goal of avoiding drawing the eire of the local police. The one time I was pulled over was the result of a hole shot out of a red light on a dark night. (Something I would not normally do but my friend was egging me on from the passenger seat.) I had just hit 3rd gear when I saw the reflective vest of the MDC cop doing the speed trap. Totally busted. Rule #1-if you can't see a potential speed trap don't hammer the gas! The MDC police in Boston have a real bad reputation for traffic enforcement. He actually got me out of the car and started yelling at me like he was my father. I was extremely apologetic and respectful(lots of "sorry sir" and "yes sir") and he let me go with a verbal warning. My friend was so pissed off at my good fortune he almost got out of the car to argue with the cop for letting me go. Long story but the point is, attitude is everything!

Massachusetts likes to enforce the out of state plate rules because a lot of people with second homes in FLA and NH use those plates to avoid the heavy excise and sales taxes. Changing to a MA plate may help you. I'd talk to the Chief personally about that "citation" Also look on the back of your registration for some pencil marks they use to alert the next officer you have been stpped before.

I'm also thinking it's your plates.

What do your plates say? Any bumper stickers? There has to be something more to it than meets the eye. Other than that, if not the case, then you have one string of crappy luck!

There's got to be more to this story than has been said....something is drawng attention to you...like a sunflower in a wheatfield....that's more times than I've been pulled over in 10 years....and I'm a spirited driver.

maybe that Bob Marley sticker isn't such a good idea?

Was in Boston proper, or a suburb? Lexington? Newton? Maybe the Yankees sticker isn't such a good idea.

First gear at 35 mph to draw attention?

I was once ticketed for dropping off my kid in front of his school (stopping, kid jumps out and driving off) there was a parking police woman standing across the street writing down license plate numbers on a yellow legal pad ( and thought it had something to do with child safety or checking for registered sexc offenders or something like that).... the ticket said that I PARKED at 9.45AM in a NO parking zone...first off it was 8.20AM (school started at 8.30AM)and 2nd I NEVER parked there, but stopped for 4 sec's....she probably wrote all license plates...over 200!!! on her legal pad and later started writing tickets.....HOW RETARDED CAN YOU BE!!! I got a $50 ticket..went to the police station and filled out a complaints.... response to the complaint was that I HAD to pay..... SO I emailed the chief of police ( in huntington beach 200K population..so not small town with horse and carriage)..... I was very polite and asked him what was next?? getting pulled out of bed in the middle of the night for something I did not do?? He responded very quickly by telling me that this was a training error and that the people involved were reprimanded and I didn't have to pay my ticket. What I would like to know is: how many people complained? Because they wrote a lot of tickets that morning!!

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+1 Something does not add up here. Either this post is total B.S. or there is more to this story than we are being told.

Rivarama, first let me welcome you to the Porsche and Rennlist community. There is a great group of guys (and girls) here, from all walks of life. Congratulations on your beautiful, new (to you) C4S. I'm a cop. The first 1/3 of my carreer was spent in a big city..LA. You have posted 12 threads since you joined here...three of them dealt with cops and law enforcement. Your first post was titled,"speeding ticket saver, please help". You posted another, dealing with being harassed by "jealous" cops because of your car. This post is titled, "dumbest pull-over ever". You are young and you drive a very nice car. After looking at pictures of your car, I did not see anything that would attract my attention (just based on the vehicle). Where you are driving, when you are driving (after clubs let out?), and how you are driving, are more likely to be the cause of you attracting unwanted police attention. You made comments in your posts indicating that you probably have a pretty negative attitude toward cops. You think they are jealous of your Porsche. You also indicated that they might think you have deep pockets since you drive a Porsche, thus they are more inclined to cite you. Big city cops make great money...if they don't have too many ex-wives to send money to, they can probably afford about any Porsche that they want. A large number of cops are gearheads because we get payed to drive fast, and most of us are adrenalin junkies. If they appeared jealous of you, it was probably the hot girlfriend sitting next to you, not your car. If you have a negative attitude toward cops and you convey that to the officer that is stopping you, it will not improve your situation. I have always considered my function as a street cop is to try finding serious criminals to take to jail so I can make the area I work safer for the decent law-abiding residents. When I stop someone that appears to be a normal person, versus a drug addict or parolee, I try to treat them the same way that I would want my family to be treated. The more cars that I stop, the more likely I am to find the dope dealer, thief, rapist, or murderer that I am looking for. The state vehicle codes provide me with the ability to stop cars and contact the occupants. I have trained with guys from Boston PD and New York City PD (I'm a full time patrol K9 Handler and a part time Bomb Technician). Both departments have some great guys. They have fantastic training and they work a busy, violent area. They are the type of guys that I enjoy working with, rather than someone from a small podunk department. If you encounter an officer and treat him or her respectfully, most of them will return your courtesy. The ones that are jacka@@es are the exceptions, rather than the rule. Good Luck.

Good post, Mark.

Mark : I Agree+1

Something is odd. I've lived in Boston for the past two years and have never been pulled over. The first year I was here I kept my out of state plates. Were you trying to drive 35 mph through the crowds at Fenway or something?

Yea Mark, needed to ve said!!!!!!!!

I certainly agree that "most" po are not looking to create problems. However, I was pulled over one month after having my car serviced and inspected. The cop comes over with a real chip on his shoulder; the typical, do you know why I pulled you over...I was clueless. In short the dealer had not replaced my inspection sticker, giving the officer every right to pull me over. His next line was, "if you could afford the car, then you can afford the inspection". Are you kidding me. I have heard more stories concerning officers with condescending attitudes than I care to discuss. While the uniform does demand respect, perhaps a slightly lighter attitude toward those hardened criminals doing 35 in a 35mph zone, or not coming to a complete stop, might increase the po to citizen relationship. I think many officers should treat the public with the same respect they would want their families treated.

Mark: First of all...good to see you back on the forum...have you been on sabatical? Secondly, good post. Thirdly, there are always going to be those horror stories of some injustice encountered by some person at some time. Like Mark said, every profession has it's own particular flavor of a$$hole...I dont' care if it's a computer programmer, MIT graduate, doctor, or checkout person in a grocery store. We also all have bad days when we dont' present our best foot forward. That's not an excuse for a bad attitude, but more of a statement that we've all had those days. If they become routine, then there's a problem at the source. Law enforcement spends a lot of time, money, and training in trying to get the officers to present the right attitude to the public. Some agencies are more PR oriented than others....but for the most part, the majority of the thousands of cops out there on the streets are trying to do the right thing. Traffic enforcement is probably where most of you will interact with the cops because of the sheer number of cars and the need for some law enforcement presence to keep folks from running red lights, speeding, or endangering others by erratic driving. The sheer number of cars and traffic enforcement cops out there bring the two together more frequently, thereby giving more opportunity for "events"....and most contact will be perceived by the driver as being unwarranted, unfair, unnecessary, and unsavory. I think we've all pushed the envelope more than once, and sometimes wonder how we've managed to stay below the radar (figureatively and literally) for as long as we have. So if and when you get nailed, the immediate reaction is one of anger or being upset....upset over getting caught in the first place, and then highly critical of anything said or done by the officer as he/she walks up to give you that little yellow slip of paper that ruins your whole day. I would imagine that the person being stopped is highly focused, incensed, and is hanging on every word, body language and innuendo. Sure, there are going to be those times where you truly feel, and rightfully so, that you were not doing what was stated....or that whatever it was wasn't exactly as presented....but repeat offenders and folks who get nailed time after time after time are doing something that goes beyond the "no fairzees".....and in those instances you have to take a hard look at the source of the reasons for all those contacts.

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I'd say "many" aren't looking to create problems not "most" but this is just based on my experience with family, friends and neighbors who are local law enforcement. The candid conversations heard now are certainly different from the ones I heard growing up as a child.

I don't mind being stopped if I am guilty, but I have been pulled over two times and out and out lied to by the officer. They were fabricating a story to justify pulling me over. In the first case I did not even get a warning when I confronted the officer with the facts. In the second he gave me a warning. In both cases I remained calm and polite, but firmly stated the facts which were in direct contradiction to what the officer claimed. I think both were surprised that someone would challenge them, but to their credit they listened and did not actually ticket me. The lesson learned though, is that some officers out there, do make it up as they go and will pull you over because they think you were going fast. Luckily the vast majority of police are honest and not out to bust chops just because you are driving a nice car.

My $.02, Mark makes good points, then again some Rennlisters have been undoubtedly targeted before - but, what's peculiar at best is Rivarama has 40% of his posts directed at tickets and/or law enforcement...I think that's the real "issue" if there is one - it's a given there are good and bad in any position, it's also a given we all likely speed far more times than we get caught!

Self-fullfilling prophecy.

Whenever I look at all the times I've been pulled over, as a rule it's fair to say I'm looking for mercy, not justice! And I must admit, more time than not I was given mercy...more than I deserved!

I think Mark, Chuck and others sum this up pretty well. Attitude has a lot to do with the result... whether it's in driving style, or personal interactions. In my interactions with Boston and MA state police they have shown themselves to be professional and courteous. Having a bad attitude about police doesn't help you when you're pulled over.

Good post Mark.

You have 30 days to notify the DMV of your new address (i.e. get a MA driver's license...based on the post I'm assuming you've recently moved to MA?). Care to provide any details about the DWI check stops? Maybe it's different in the North, but down here in NC they can't do random pull overs; they'd have to be operating a checkpoint to do random stops. I thought that one is a Constitutional requirement, but it may have been an NC State Supreme Court case, my memory is a little fuzzy.

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Why are you treating parolees differently? It's not likely they're committing some new felony, if you're just pulling them over for vehicle code violations. They're not necessarily any more dangerous like the drug-addict is. Also, I understand the viewpoint on stopping more is better, but do you really think that's an appropriate purpose for the vehicle code? I'm oversimplifying here, but aren't you supposed to only conduct some further search/seizure beyond what is called for by the witnessed infraction alone if you see some new evidence of that other crime you are looking for or are given consent?

Marlinspike, here is a quote from the San Francisco Chronicle (12-23-02) regarding parolee recidivism rates in California..."Now, virtually everyone released from prison spends three years on parole. Most -- about 71 percent -- end up back in prison within 18 months -- the nation's highest recidivism rate and nearly double the average of all other states." They are far more dangerous for law enforcement to deal with than the average citizen. We have a three strikes law that means they have very little to lose, and a lot to gain, by attempting to flee from, or assaulting law enforcement. California case law has determined that "pretext stops" are an appropriate use of the vehicle code. It is one of the best tools that we have. After conducting a lawful traffic stop for vehicle code violations, there are numerous circumstances that allow officers to search the vehicle, including...plain view, furitive movements, narcotics influence or paraphernalia, probation, parole, incident to arrest, inventory prior to storage, and consent (just to name a few).

You need to be alot friendlier,yes sir no sir and keep your hands up. Keep avoice activatd recorder clipped to your visor, NOT low where you will get shot reaching for it,when they go to far go to the City attorney and news with the tape.

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What you should know about pretext stops: A "pretext stop" is a stop in which the officer detains the citizen for a minor crime (i.e. traffic offense) because the officer actually suspects the person of involvement in a major crime (i.e. drug possession). The ruling in Whren v. U.S. demonstrates how easy it is for officers to do this. There are numerous minor infractions for which officers can legally pull over a car, thus officers frequently choose which cars to pull over based on suspicions that something more serious might be going on. Frequently, police officers decide who to pull over based on age, race, and appearance. This is unconstitutional, but impossible to prove. Therefore, the first defense against pretext stops is to avoid violating any traffic laws. This includes, but is not limited to, obeying speed limits and traffic signs, signaling properly before making turns, and keeping your car in working order. If the officer can't form a convincing explanation for why you were pulled over, the seizure becomes illegal, and any evidence found during the traffic stop can't be used in court. Of course, a legitimate traffic stop always remains a possibility, thus it is important to keep private items out of sight and never consent to searches.

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Sounds to me like CA's 3-strikes rule is to blame. Right, there are numerous circumstances that allow you to search, but I was just pointing out that you need to have something to get to search. Given that if you pull someone for a failure to signal a turn, for instance, you don't get to search if you see nothing else and are not given consent, don't you think that pretext stops, while perhaps constitutional, are an inappropriate use of the vehicle code.

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Unless you're in one of the states that requires all parties to the conversation to be aware that the conversation is being recorded.

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Doesn't that pertain to phone conversations?

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You'd be surprised. There was an incident in MA not all that long ago. Guy recorded cop cussing at him during a traffic stop. Guy went to PD. Guy found himself with new charges against him. But yeah, a state requiring all-party consent to record a phone call might not to record an in-person conversation, but there are states that do.

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One could say he/she was getting ready to leave himself a vmail message when he was pulled over or just call 911, those calls are recorded. My question is, how can the police be mic'd up with video cameras yet a citizen cannot do the same?

I find it to be pushing the limits of invasion of privacy to have police pull me over on the pretext of fishing for something else. ... I have a simple philosophy of making sure that I don't provide a reason to be pulled over. If I am pulled over I am polite and professional and if asked I would decline a request for a search. A pretext search is a powerful tool that can easily be abused, even if it intended to be used in a good way.

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It was a few years ago so my memory is hazy, but the court addressed this in upholding his additional charges. It was something along the lines of the importance of the police cameras outweigh the privacy issues, yet somehow if the person pulled over is doing the recording this isn't true.

a little OT here, but its about the plate situation. Im working a contract job here in WI, have MI plates, i was all confused about whether or not i needed to change things over since i could be here for nearly a year or more before i find out if they take me on full time, or i just end my contract. My permanent address remains michigan because i receive a per-diem payment for having "2 homes" basically, or bills in two states. SO! I emailed WI's DOT and asked them about it, they said to leave it as is and if i find out i will be staying, then i have 60 days (i believe some states are 30, some 60) THIS is the kind of stuff im worried about though, i was under the impression if i changed my plates, i changed my license, insurance and then what would really link me back to MI besides my registering to vote, and would that be void since i dont have anything saying im there anymore... as of right now im still on MI plates and until i have a problem, im just gonna hope its ok or they take me on full time so i can change it over without worrying

Do you maintain a residence in MI? Do you intend to return to MI ultimately? I think it's fair to say yes to the second question because your job is temporary at the moment, and if you didn't intend to return you would have presumably sold your MI residence. If you answered yes to both questions, no need to change anything.