Is AWD less fun to drive?

For those that have driven both cars, does AWD make a Porsche less fun to drive? I'm shopping for my Pcar right now. Originally, I was set on AWD because of where I live but I'm starting to rethink that. RWD cars are much easier to come across on the used market and I think they may be more fun. All I've ever owned (besides motorcycles) are 4x4 trucks that are incredibly light on the rear end and I very rarely use 4WD. What I'm getting at is, even in a truck, AWD isn't really necessary. I'd imagine that in a Porsche, it's even less necessary. Is a RWD car more fun to toss around on a day to day basis? I'll admit to enjoy sliding the rear end around quite a bit when the conditions call for it.

All depends on the driver. A less skilled driver that prefers a safer can that understeers, can't go wrong with AWD. Those more skilled who drive a car more with their feet than their hands will be highly disappointed. For example: every generation of 911, Walter Rohrl goes 6-7 seconds slower around in the nurburgring in the C4 version versus the C2 version. Hence why none of Porsche's best models, GTx cars, will ever be AWD.

yea but the C4's have big wide a$$ that screams WAAAA HOOOOO!! when you look at it I drove a C4S this morning and was not at all disapointed....I have had 2 C2's (still I would not buy a C4 for many reasons)

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I cant belive you are Worng... C4 is Narrow Body... C4S is Wide Body

I'd think in the application of power quickly in the 4 AWD car is more controllable. Seeing some fancy upgrades and stories of 1000hp cars I'd think AWD is the only way to keep the car scooting along in the direction desired with that high of a power. If the turbo concerned is around 600hp I'd think its debateable on being AWD or not to deal with foul ups running amuck.

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Both my Boxster and my 996 Turbo (awd) are a blast to drive. AFIAK I've never triggered the awd save once or twice shortly after I got the car and only for a brief time when I think the traction control light flashed when I gave the car alot of throttle in a lower gear. The Turbo just gets up and moves. Have had the Turbo in some marginal traction conditions (mainly wet roads in varying amounts of rain fall --drizzly to heavy downpour) but in these conditions I am really careful to avoid over applying the throttle. My preference is to be able to control the car without having to rely upon any electronic wizardry. I laugh a bit when a guy in a pick up truck or some other vehicle has to spin the tires big time in the wet when pulling away from a stop. As if it means something (other than the driver's a doofus). Oh no track time. In short I can't tell the Turbo's awd by the way it drives, handles or feels. It feels of course different in some repects from the Boxster but it still feels great on the road, from driving around town to freeway driving and even the occasional jaunt over my favorite mountain roads nearby (Yeehaaaa!). I can warn you that tossing around a Porsche is going to see you go through tires like Oprah goes through Twinkies. Drive examples of both 2wd and awd cars and see what you like. My preference would be to have the power of the Turbo in 2wd. Why? Cause car simpler and a bit lighter, (though the extra weight up front might help grip at the front), has more trunk space and has a simpler gas tank. Since I use my Turbo for GT driving (several thousand mile long road trips whenever I can manage to get the time off) a larger front trunk and a larger and simpler gas tank which the OBC doesn't have to futz around to arrive at the remaining fuel after half tank is my reason. It has nothing to do with the feel of or the handling of the car. Sincerely, Macster.

It depends on the generation of AWD Porsche. The ones from 2009 on do not understeer. That's a big change from previous iterations. The C4S is heavier and you can feel the added weight in the steering but handling is as "neutral" as the C2. In the wet or snow, AWD is a plus obviously. Best,

Having a C4 and previously (2) RWD (1967 and 1986 911's) I have to say they equally are great rides in their own rite. That said my C4 with PSM has saved my butt a few times. I live in a climate that has a 2-3 month winter and the C4 is great in the snow! The only thing that would make me switch would be if a GT3 fell in my lap. With my current driving skills I prefer the C4. Regardless of AWD or RWD when you feel the back end coming out.......you will do the same regardless....put ur foot in it.

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Sorry I wrote C4's when I meant C4S - blackberry typing and fat fingers

I've driven both and own the 4S. I dont think the steering is much heavier on the 4S, but it does seem a little less "telepathic" compared to a C2. On the track it demands pretty "direct" steering input then it is an absolute hoot! I spent this weekend sliding it around the track and fell in love with again (like every track day). The mechanical grip of the awd is awesome. That being said - at the track I am firmly convinced that to progress as a driver you need a 2wd car. The awd just hides too many little errors. In the 4S you can be down-right obscene with how much gas you can give the car... and it "lets you" get away with it. as a DD. I would choose it every time. summed up in one word. widebody.

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Where are you tossing it? On a track? On the street? These questions come up with every generation since the 964 - you just need to drive it to see what you can feel and see if you have a preference. Some people can't even feel when a tire is flat, much less the subtlety of the lightly driven front wheels of a 996 C4 or C4S, or additional weight, or a different steering feel between the models, much less the different feel between a car with a full tank, or half tank of gas. That said, I like the steering feel of the C4S over the C2 - feels way more steady on the highway and just less "light" than a C2 even around town. But that's me!

Everything else held equal, AWD is always faster/better/etc. over a greater breadth of road conditions. Problem is, they never hold everything else equal. Still, for a road car that's driven in the real world, there's really no comparison. Walter Rohrl can say what he likes now that he's on Porsche's payroll, but he would never pick 2WD over AWD back when he had to get down a real road as fast as possible to earn his paycheck. And believe me, there's no problem tossing an AWD Porsche around if you want to. It's barely AWD anyway.

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It just occurred to me that perhaps you think the Porsche AWD system is full time? It is not. The 996 system uses a fluid coupling in a transfer housing filled with discs, kind of like a multi-plate wet clutch. Every other disc is driven by the driveshaft from the transmission to this transfer housing. The other set of discs is connected to the shaft that transmits torque to the front diff. If the speed of the discs driven by the driveshaft from the transmission increase to much as would be the case if the rear tires were spinning on snow ice or even on dry pavement this difference in speed of rotation heats up this fluid and as it heats up it gets very thick. Thick enough to transmit torque from the spinning discs to the nearly stationary discs. Up to 30% of the engine's torque can be transmitted through this clutch disc pack. As the front wheels begin to rotate and the car begins to move the rotational speed of the two different clutch discs becomes the same and the fluid cools down below its critcal temperature and becomes more fluid and no more torque is transmitted to the front diff and axles and wheels/tires. The fluid reacts quite rapidly. IIRC in just a tenth of a second or less. It is a nice and relatively trouble free system. The only better system (according to some experts) is the system used in the 997 which does away with the special fluid and instead uses a drivetrain controller working thorugh an electromechanical/hydraulic system to force the clutch discs to be applied to one another. The reaction time is quicker and perhaps even less abrupt than the 996 system. It is supposedly lighter too. Thus only in very marginal traction situations would the awd even come into play and then it remains active for just a short time, unless of course traction is so poor than the rear tires continue to spin and the car remaind stationary or nearly so. But once the car begins moving the contribution by the front wheels/tires drops rapidly diminishing to zero in just a short time, probably just a short time after the front and rear wheel speeds are equal again. Sincerely, Macster.

I drive both the C2 and C4 for AX (no T/C or PSM respectively). They both handle a bit different, but equally fast on the course. My C4 has no understeer with its current setup, one would not even know its AWD. If you did a search, even the newer GT3 understeer in its stock configuration and comes with the latest electronic aids. I will state I am a bit jealous of the C2 drivers having more available trunk space. Drive both model and pick the one that suits your need the best.

Fun is a subjective term. Both are fun to drive. Just in different ways.

Drive them both and decide which Porsche feels right for you...but don't buy a C4 if you're thinking about winter/snow conditions only, as you stated you hardly used 4WD in your truck. I've been impressed with the winter abilities of a rear drive C2 WITH dedicated snows.

I read an article that the c4 is faster on the track.... but the c2 is faster on the wet track. go figure.

I'd like to see that article.

As many have pointed out, it really depends on the how you drive and where you drive. If you haven't taken a professional driving class, I recommend it. The class will teach you many aspects of a vehicle and how it handles. It won't make you a true professional driver...experience is needed; however, the basic principles applies to all cars. AWD, owned and operated many and I enjoy them more than the two wheel drive counterparts mainly because commerical roads aren't perfect. Even your standard highway possesses many hazards that diminish the grip of even the most technically perfect tires. Dust, dirt, sand, and uneven pavement will diminish the handling performance of the vehilce. The vehicle is only one part of the big equation to driving. Commercial roads aren't equal in quality to professional tracks. Since I don't do track racing, I ere to the AWD on standard roads for more safety, piece of mind, and some compensation to performance handling inhibitors.

Carrera 4 or Carrera 2? Tastes great or less filling? Dessert topping or floor wax? If it's on Top Gear, it must be true...

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As long as it isn't Clarkson commenting on the Porsche

I've driven both on the same Autox course and personally prefer the more raw and direct feeling of the C2. The C4 (not C4s) I drove, felt heavier on turn in and a bit more reluctant to do what I wanted. I also had to modulate my driving style a bit as the increased mass made me push and braking wasn't as instant. The car was just less willing to rotate on the slower tight corners as compared to my car which (on stock alignment) can get TTOS on almost any corner I choose. With the C4 once understeer began you just had to dial it back and wait, be patient, open up the wheel and wait for the front end to bite again. That being said, I was driving a students car and I know that her tire pressures weren't optimized since she had only done this 1 time previously so direct comparisons to my car with the pressure dialed in aren't really apples to apples. What can be taken away is that the steering feel wasn't as direct, the car (C4) felt heavier and slower to react to inputs. Overall, it was less tactile an experience. If it where me, I would go with a C2 as I like cars that are lighter and offer more feedback. If your not into that kind of thing or the car will purely be a streat car the C4 is just fine and would also serve you well. My 2 cents adjusted for inflation.

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evo: March 1999 Carrera 2 vs Carrera 4, Comparison Test So this is the Mk1 996 C2 - traction control C4 - PSM Bottom Line Wet Circle, moderate friction c2 16.51 c4 17.42 Wet Circle, low friction c2 26.31 c4 27.02 Wet Handling Circuit (Mira Wet Grip Circuit) c2 48.73 c4 50.04 Dry Handling Circuit (Dunlop Handling Circuit) c2 68.15 c4 68.09 Maybe, this was more of a traction control vs PSM in the wet/dry.... but this is what it is.

I think either car could be fun to drive, depending upon what constitutes fun. I, a lover of high performance cars, former motorcycle roadracer, adrenaline junkie, extreme sports participant, rock and ice climber, perfer the C2, especially the lighter Mk1s. My accountant, would perfer the C4. To him, fun must be safe. If there is potential danger, it should be addressed and not an issue. He would never experiment with a car to approach the limits of handling, tire traction, or braking. He would also stay well below the redline. We talked about this very thing at the bar last night over a beer. He has a new Subaru Outback with 10k miles and told me how well it preformed when he accelerated hard up to around 75mph. He said the car felt in its element. I asked him how it felt near redline, he said the highest he reved it was about 1000 below it, ever. His previous car was a Lincoln.

I think you are right. They were comparing TC versus PSM. The C2 without TC would not have performed as well.

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If you are in BC, you might consider the AWD anyway. You can do donuts with the C2, but you will drive the AWD more in the winter than the C2. Both are fun to drive. Just in different ways. As for tossing the car around on a daily basis - what? and seriously? -td

Remember that the C4/C4S cars are really rear wheel drive for all intents & purposes until wheel spin or slippage is detected, and then the differentials direct more propulsion to the fronts. So on track both are very fun, in different ways as has been said above. Same as on the street. In BC, an C4 is probably a good choice, and would actually be more fun, since it is more confidence inspiring in more of the conditions you face. Here in Texas, the C2 would be my choice. As for Rohrl's times on the 'Ring, remember that the C4/C4S is significantly heavier than the C2. So the difference in lap times is much more likely due to WEIGHT than anything else. Suggesting otherwise, for a difference of 6 seconds over a 13+ mile lap, is silly. Professional Racing and Driving Coach

When I bought mine, I specifically looked for the 4S v. the 2 because of the wide-body styling. Whether AWD or RWD, it's really hard to get the tail to spin out in the driveway.

Especially.....if.....you.......seldom.......drive ......it. Sorry Phil, just another bad habit.

I have C4. If I did it again I would go C2 not for any performance issues but for maintenance issues. I have not had any problems but it is one more transfer case oil to change, I worry about it going bad and I have to carry around the extra weight. Any parts in the front end are C4 parts so there are less of them. The transmission is more. It adds more complexity to anything in the front: shocks, springs, bearings etc. due to the driveshafts, which have boots that can/will split. You get the ideal. On the othe hand my car, a 1999, has PSM, which mostly eliminates the rear end swinging out. At track days with a wet track the C4 rules.

Winter tires and a C4 - mine gets driven year round here in Minnesota. Nothing quite like it on a frozen lake. On a more serious note, there have been a couple times where the AWD helped me out of a flawed maneuver. Nice to have, when it happens.

Maybe the C4 is more in its place in deutscheland wiggling around a little with grandma behind the wheel going top speeds. Those old ladies over there will eat you alive on the autobahn. No mercy what so ever from those little ladies.

Anyone have any experience/knowledge of how much "play" in the C4 drivetrain is normal (whatver normal is)? Just took my car into the dealership for a checkup because there seems to be definite backlash in the drivetrain when changing gears. However, the higher you rev the motor between gears, the less the sound/effect. But, if you pop it into 2nd, say, at around 1500rpm, you cna hear a definite slop or clunk coming from the rear end of the car. Drove it with a senior tech from the dealership, and then he drove it with the shop forman. Then they dropped the pans off to see if they could find any play....they couldn't! Bloody odd! They told me to take the car home and they'll find another C4 of the same generation and check it to see if it has the same traits. Opinions anyone?? Les.

Anyone have any experience/knowledge of how much "play" in the C4 drivetrain is normal (whatver normal is)? Just took my car into the dealership for a checkup because there seems to be definite backlash in the drivetrain when changing gears. However, the higher you rev the motor between gears, the less the sound/effect. But, if you pop it into 2nd, say, at around 1500rpm, you cna hear a definite slop or clunk coming from the rear end of the car. Drove it with a senior tech from the dealership, and then he drove it with the shop forman. Then they dropped the pans off to see if they could find any play....they couldn't! Bloody odd! They told me to take the car home and they'll find another C4 of the same generation and check it to see if it has the same traits. Opinions anyone?? Les.

What wheels are on your car? I too, love the gold against the silver. Time for me to get a set. Thanks! 2002 C4S silver H&R coilovers for track and street Fab Speed bypass pipe

"Our goal for the C4 were to endow it with the same agility as the C2 while giving it more traction than the C2. We aimed for better directional stability in crosswinds as well as clear and smooth steering behavior up to the limit of adhesion. We gave the C4 a higher limit of control than the C2 has." Explained Thomas Herold, (Porsche) project manager for the latest Carrera 4. "After driving the new Carrera both on the track and over the road, I would have to agree that Mr. Harold's project has met all of its design objectives." - David Colman "This newest Carrera 4 effort is delightful - the all-wheel drive system in this car is totally transparent to the driver." - Bruce Anderson Excerpts from Pete Stout's story on the New C4 in the May 1999 issue of Excellence. IMHO - The beauty of Porsche is the choices we now have in these wonderful Sports-cars. For an everyday year-round driver in the Pacific Northwest, the C4 was my choice.

my neighbour who had an older 911 said that i shoulda gone for the c4 given the rain here (and YAY! got my 02 C2 last week from a guy that honoured the deal we had so I was able to get a PPI done and was able to close on it!!!) i guess if youre going to drive it every day in dec, jan and feb then i can see what the appeal might be given our road conditions here. but i figure that the mdx was made for days like that!

My last car was a 95 c2 with psm and a lsd. My present car is a 2000 c4 cab. The 95 was raw and a wonderful seat-of-your pants car. For a driver here in Seattle? The C4 is the car of choice- fabulous in the rain, tons of power and on the snow, you should experience it for yourself. I would LOVE to see a C4 up against anything in the snow on the highway. There is no comparison. Oh, on the dry- yeah, a bit more weight, etc... but would 99% of drivers even feel it... heck no. After 25 years of driving 911s, I bet that most drivers if they weren't told, could not even tell they were driving a C4 or a C2 (on the dry, of course.) Every 996 (and 911) made is a blast. Very few drivers can ever put one to its full potential. Drive both, and chose what you like, because they are both fantastic cars.

Yawl need to find a way to differentiate between the earlier, practically useless VC implemented C4, and the newer later models that use an electromagnetic clutch under control of the TC system. The VC version never provides more that about 5% engine torque unless you have a sustained period of unabated rear wheelspin vs the front. And if TC/LSD is enabled that quite simply aen't gonna happen.

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The 996 series C4, like mine, had no truly functional awd capability.

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The late 997 has a decent awd function.

Ive driven both extensively, very had to tell the diff between the two, except for the steering.... I prefer the steering feel of the C4, I bit heavier when the front wheel "activates". The C4 is more for stability rather than AWD function.... but that is the notion that people won't accept....

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Let's face it, Porsche has sold 996 and early 997 C4 owners a load of poles.

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LOL. you sound bitter.

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I have had it transfer power to the front twice in 10 years. First time TC off. I was at a stop sign on a very sandy back road. I dropped the clutch at 3500 rpm and pulled away. Power went directly to the front. It felt like I just blew the motor. HP felt like it had been cut it half. It crawled away from 1st to 2nd and I thought I screwed something up so I switched to 3rd and 4th and let off the throttle and then power was restored to the rear wheels. 2nd time TC on. I was at the track and my left rear wheel drove over coolant. I saw no PSM light come on but I instantly felt like I just blew my motor. I did not know I had driven over coolant at this time. I powered out and the power was just not there, worried I let off and then got back on the power a little latter to try and see if there was any problem with the engine and power was back again. I went in the pits thinking the worse but got out and saw nothing wrong. I went back out and then I noticed the wet coolant marks in one of the corners, then I knew that was what had happened. I know it does work. Does it work much. Not really. I have been in a couple slides and the track where I can grantee you the front were sent more power the 5% but not like the other times. PSM did come on but I think by the time PSM cuts in power has all ready been transferred to the front. Personally I think the VC is better then the new 997.2 AWD. The new system is too good and constantly controls each wheels power. Where as the old system is 95% rear wheel drive until you really need it.

I enjoy tracking my car at least twice a year. I am fortunate to live close to Willow Springs, and it is a really fun track. I have not yet tracked the C4 that I currently own, but I have been fortunate enough to have drived my friend's C4 at Willow Springs, and it was alot more exciting then my two wheel drive Porsche. I guess it is just a matter of opinion

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And the clear answer to that question is a resounding YES or you would not be asking that question. The C2 is for the more experienced driver and more fun to toss around.

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"..constantly.." Pre-emptively, yes, constantly, no. Unless you have some sort of typo regarding the placement of the paragraph following the "First time TC off" sentence you never had TC off.

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No, just being factual. Same thing happened to me switching from '00 RX300 to '01 RX300, addition of TC made the VC useless(***). '00 VC was fully functional, no TC and quick onset of VC "solidity". But that put too much stress on the driveline components so Lexus "revised" the VC for no or little functionality, always "flaccid". *** I Figured out a way to disable TC "as needed" only to then discover that for the '01 and after RX300's the VC fluid had been reformulated so as to provide NO "undue" driveline component stress. Post RX300 production the VC was dropped entirely, rellying exclusively on TC for F/awd functionality.

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It is constantly monitored, which means it is being constantly controlled. Control defined as in the sense of letting it have full power or not, even when it is allowed to have full powered it still is being constantly controlled. No error. PSM was turned off. It will remain turned off until you hit the brakes. I did not hit the brakes. There was no engine cut off. All the power from the rear was sent to the front. Which I believe is a max of 40%. This I believe why is that the engine felt like it had no power.

Well, I've driven a couple high powered rear wheel drive cars and I've had two AWD sports cars. Driving anything with more than 350hp to just two tires does indeed take more attention to get the most out of it...and yes, it can be very exciting sliding around corners. I've had both a "real" AWD system in my Eagle Talon (with only 225 hp) felt heavy and it was nearly impossible to break it loose going around corners...even in the snow. It was am impressively planted car. Unfortunately, I never did get to track it, but the fun I had on the off/on ramps was enough that I would say it was not only confidence building but pretty exciting as well. Now, as for my C4S...I've only had her on 1 proper racetrack...willow springs. Compared to my old talon, the 911 feels so light and nimble, I don't notice any weight penalty. It really does drive like a RWD car...but with a dash of FWD assist. Must be the whole 95/5 power split when running normally. I find this setup aids in keeping the nose pointed where I want to go, even when I'm sliding the rear a bit. So when I am pushing it, I'm not quite as worried about the *** coming around on my. To date it's never happened (knock on wood). It's fun in the snow, but not as fun as the talon. I've never gotten stuck, but it isn't a real AWD system and I have spent time spinning the rears. Frankly, I think this system is the best of both worlds for a sports car. you get some of the benefits of AWD but keep more of the benefits of RWD too. There are sacrifices in both areas, but they are really small. YMMV sean