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Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHPicking up my 996 today....
Reported or suspected cause
low miles, cpo and dealer service
Reported cause
No successful repair reported for this finding.
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Reported cause
I'm sure it was the low miles, CPO and dealer service that did it.
Leading evidence: 'low miles, cpo and dealer service' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'low miles, cpo and dealer service' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check filter' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Thankfully when this happened to me, I was covered under CPO and had a brand new 2005 motor installed by Porsche.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
I didn't ask Porsche but I assume I am allowed to get the engine installed elsewhere.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Id personally pay Porsche to install it, they are giving you a new engine which is $$$$$, the least you can do is ensure its installed properly by them.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
Id personally pay Porsche to install it, they are giving you a new engine which is $$$$$, the least you can do is ensure its installed properly by them.
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Suggestion
It's all supposition until it's *your* woulda coulda shoulda - I am very much like the rest - there is just no point in, from here forward, not going back to my original idea: When I have the clutch replaced at 50-60 I will replace the bearing too.
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195 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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6 years later and I still feel like a kid when i get in the car to drive it!
best thing I ever bought for myself hands down!
You never get tired of it!
So it looks like I am just standing by someone's car in a parking lot but notice I already changed the pumpkins! I had a couple things done this week, before I picked it up, and that was one of them.
Thanks for all the nice words. Still excited but my excitement just took a major hit....
... first 23 hours of driving were great. In the 24th hour I got my welcome to Porsche ownership moment.... Hopefully it's nothing major.... Heard something weird, stopped, looked under the car and the oil dumped.... Wasn't dripping.
Ouch! Hope it is nothing major.
You drove right by my house on your way home last night. Wish I could have found a way to come join you on the highway for a few miles.
Good luck with the diagnosis.
Holy CRAP!!! Bought from a dealer? ANY warranty at all? PPI? How many miles were on it, and did you put on it before the noise? Can you describe the wiierd noise? That has got to be a record of some kind, 24 hours of ownership and then that! And we wonder where the reputation of these cars comes from.
I hope it is something simple and not expensive, too but......
BTW, I didn't know that any 996 still had the black rear bumperettes after 2000. Normal for 2004 C4S?
If you bought from a dealer, many times even without a warranty they will cover something like this if it happens shortly after you drove it off the lot. Can't hurt to ask. Sorry to see this and hope it's not something major.
Beautiful!!! CONGRATS!!! I know you've been very patient with your search and it looks like your patience has paid off! Enjoy...and keep taking pictures!
-Eric
Update Edit: Oh maaaan, I'm so sorry. I just got to the second set of pictures. I've got my fingers crossed for you. Keep us posted. I hope it all turns out well.
Private party purchase.
Incredibly detailed PPI.
Sounds like it's likely IMS as he was pulling the tranny last night.
The guy who did the PPI feels horrible. I don't really think he could have figured out the IMS was going to fail within 100 miles. However, he volunteered to do labor if I pay parts. We have not talked yet about what will be needed though.
Will update. Again, I do appreciate all the kind words.
Sorry to hear about that. I would let the previous owner know. If he was original owner and had it serviced regularly at the dealer i would ask him if he could bring it in to the dealership he has been using to see if they could bat for him with asking Porsche for some good will. If its the original owner with history with the dealer and company they might be willing to do so on his behalf but not for a "new" second owner. You never know you might get lucky with that route. Hope all works
Crap. Glad the PPI shop is willing to cover the labour on this.. guess another good reason to pick a solid shop for a PPI ! ... hopefully she will be fixed up soon, and you'll be cruizing this Summer.
Well... it's major.
Just talked to the mechanic.
He still feels bad and will still do repair for parts only. Plus will sell parts to me at his cost.
However, he said new engine is the proper fix.
He said he could put a new bearing on there but he said it likely won't be a long term fix and he doesn't know how much metal is in the engine.
Will look into options this week. He said used engines are $5k-6k and Porsche re-man is $19k retail. He is looking into wholesale cost on Tuesday.
Oh ya, so memo to anybody looking to buy a 996 and anybody who says warranties are a waste of money... in my opinion they aren't for a car like this and I wish I had paid extra for CPO or a warranty from moment 1. I was going to add a warranty this week. That will be too late though.
Also, make sure your PPI includes thorough check of oil filter!
I have no way to know if the seller had any clue but I have to assume not. Seems like a nice guy. I have asked him to call the dealer to see if he can get any kind of deal/accommodation.
Sucks!
Sad news. Unless the bearing was leaking, there is really no way to tell via PPI if a failure will occur sooner or later, unless you split the motor/tranny. Thankfully when this happened to me, I was covered under CPO and had a brand new 2005 motor installed by Porsche.
Regardless, you have a very nice car and this issue is not the end of the world. Get it fixed properly and enjoy it.
Thank you. No, not the end of the world but couldn't it have waited until 6 months or so!? I mean, 24 hours after I started driving it... not even 100 miles.... Very frustrating.
Will talk to Porsche first and am hoping they may jump in in some way. It's just two months since CPO ended. We shall see....
Wow that totally sucks! Less then 24 hours of ownership? You gotta be kidding. To make you feel better, I got my 01 996 less than 1 month ago and was nailed in the parking lot by a Dodge Nitro. It's in the body shop now. A guy over at 6speedonline got his 01 996 back in March and his engine blew up in smoke today.
Good luck and keep us posted.
You say you 'heard something weird' so you stopped and then it dropped the oil. What did you hear above your radio (as I assume you had the radio blaring with you being a young dude) who seems to be more interested in modding out a car EVEN before picking it up? I see you were offered a great deal of extended warrenty but you chose to keep your money in the bank. Taken from one of your prevuious postings. 3 years/36,000 miles $3575 ALL WITH $250 deductible per visit .
WHAT CAN I SAY�You preferred to spend your money on modding rather than on protection knowing these 996 had occassional problems. Theres an old saying in my family "You can't put an old head on young shoulders". Sorry for your problems Hope you get things sorted out.
The PO might have known this was about to happen. The filter could have been changed without the oil being changed at the same time. Not that it's going to do you any good but a PO could have known and covered up by a recent oil and filter change and the PPI would never have found it anyway. You sure its a bearing problem and not a piston flying somewhere it shouldn't have as you revved the **** out of this car in the first 100 miles. ??????????????????????? People on this board speak there minds. So do I.....right or wrong. That is M H O
You might have some luck with the CPO - I know that my dealer was able to get some goodwill coverage for a customer whose CPO expired a few months before the engine went. Did not cover all of it, but if I recall it was a substantial dollar amount.
Hurdi - Although I agree with your comments about the interest in mods over protecting the bones of the car (I have a kid who does the same thing - he jumps to put the stereo and amp in his cars while Dad ends up taking care of things like leaking axle seals and bad brakes
)I think all of us on this board have had some "coulda, woulda, shoulda" experiences - I know I have, and I still do, and I'm an old head.
Guess I will be working to renew my extended warranty on my C4S that expires in October. And better, I guess I won't regret having the IMSB replaced when I take my C2 in for a clutch next week.
So we buy a sports car from one of top marquees in automotive industry well known for its motorsport lineage and we should buy an extended warranty right away and then never rev the engine (which is protected from rev-limiter excluding incorrect downshifting) in fear of the engine self-destructing?! How silly and ironic is that mindset if this sports car should only be driven in a leisurely pace with the owner constantly concerned with a major failure???
Is that what Porsche meant by "There is no substitute"? There just seems to be more incidents like these as compared to other brands, how often do we hear about this happening with other brands?
You are entitled to speak your mind, however it seems to be kicking a chap while he's down facing a major rude awakening of the Porsche ownership experience.
WOW! That's about all I can say. I have exposed my sole to try and help others avoid this problem... as well as for some personal therapy to share my plight with "friends."
I didn't do any mods except change my pumpkins out so I could fit in around Rennlist. I was asking questions because I was excited about my car. I spent $2,000 this week on invisible things like a loose hose and some other stuff. All of it non-cosmetic and not visible. So you are 100% wrong about where I spent my money.
I am a 44 year old family man so don't think I am "young dude." At that moment my wife and I had a Madonna CD playing but not loudly. I now hate Madonna even more.
I was going to get the warranty this week. I have the email in my in box. I didn't pick the car up until Friday. I didn't buy the car from the dealer offering the warranty. I had to make those arrangements still. Is it really that unreasonable to think you could expect to drive a car a few days without the warranty in place!? I am not a huge risk taker but come on now be reasonable.
I did not rev the engine at all. I am really not a fast driver. I just wanted a convertible Porsche. I am not a track guy or anything like that. So you are just wrong.
Beyond being just wrong I think you have really crossed the line about speaking one's mind. You don't know me, have no reason to be mean to me, and thus I will assume you had a few too many pints this morning with breakfast.
I would also assume you wouldn't tell me all this to my face in a bar, with such conviction, would you? Isn't that always a good test if you should be typing it on the internet!?
Peace be with your brother. I hope you feel better now after kicking me while I am down.
Hurdi,
I have noticed as of late that your posts seem angry. It seems like you are finding members or owners on this forum to take out some sort of anger. I don't think that your synopsis or assumptions of what happened here are warranted at all. Assume something about the car rather than the owner. Why would you care anyway if he wanted to mod the car even before ownership? It doesn't affect you.
There is a saying in my family like "If you don't have something nice to say don't say it at all"!!
Words of encouragement would work better in this situation than your words of assumption and accusations.
I have to admit that you do look like a young dude
My hats off to you for maintaining your restraint/composure in your reply. FWIW, I am rooting for you...that somehow Porsche NA does something.
Well said and with class. Oh and that car looks
really
modded out.
You young kids with your wives listening to Madonna street racing...
. Your share will help at least one person possibly in the future to better understand what's involved with a 996. You didn't have to do any of this publicly but I think it's great that you did.
Thanks. I guess I have my youth going for me!
Seriously though, just a cloudy picture. I think I look all of my 44 years.
In terms of restraint... I am still in a bit of a shock by his comments but it is what it is. I can't worry about someone who gets their jollies out of kicking someone when they are down on an internet message board. He obviously has his own problems.
I lead a high moral life so I hope in the end things will work out. Plus, at this point they will work out as they work out... and some day, one way or the other, I will be driving a 2004 C4S cab with a new engine!
My fingers are crossed for getting lucky with Porsche. I have a feeling that most of my friends here will also be hoping I get lucky. Maybe even the bitter guy when he sobers up.
John,
I'm really bummed that you're going through all of this. It seems like you're taking it very well from the tone of your posts...or, at least, much better than I would be if I were in your shoes.
Let us know what your work out with Porsche. Btw, out of curiosity, what kind of warranty were you looking to buy? Something offered by Porsche or a 3rd party?
-Eric
Oh come on now don't take things to heart. I dont feel better having to speak my mind but to give you candy because your engine blew up is not my style. What am I expected to think after you buying a car from a top class dealer and the engine blows up on you within 100 miles. I don't drink or smoke so could not meet you in a bar. You are still a young man in my book as I am 70years of age. You spent $2000 on a hose and things. How come the dealer didn't put this right for you before you took the car? I just don't get this... anyway.. Enough said. I apoligise for upsetting you and sincerely hope that the dealer can help you out here. Lets see how good he really is as an Honest Dealer. If you have driven as you say, (Now I know and I believe that you have) That engine should never have gone bust before you even got it home from the dealership. If he doesnt help out here then the Dealership needs its name painted black all over the internet. Who did the PPI? The Dealer? Did you do some kind of a mod that would overheat the engine or something. God this is crazy.
The only way you can check the IMSB is if you spend $1k labor to pull the engine and transmission apart. A routine PPI would never catch it. That's kind of the whole "fear" about the IMSB. It's a silent killer.
I don't get what age has anything to do with your comments. The guy replaced parts he knew needed replacing. I'm sure if he knew the IMSB was about to blow the engine to bits he would have either replaced it or rejected the car.
-Eric
Eric-
In reply to your question about warranties. This from a Porsche dealer in Nor Cal:
Here are the quotes for my 2004 C4S cab with 37k miles, for a Fidelity "platinum" exclusionary policy:
6 years /72,000 miles $11002
6 years/60,000 miles $8192
4 years/ 48,000 miles $5589
3 years/36,000 miles $4411
ALL WITH $100 deductible per visit
Or
6 years /72,000 miles $8386
6 years/60,000 miles $6335
4 years/ 48,000 miles $4435
3 years/36,000 miles $3575
ALL WITH $250 deductible per visit
This might be very naive but I never really thought about a Porsche warranty on a non-CPO car. So, are you saying I can call a local dealer to get a warranty quote on my car?
Btw, you might want to check out this link...
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/auto_.../fidelity.html
-Eric
Or put stickers on it so no one would mistake that it is a Porsche (sorry - couldn't help myself Eric). Hope all is well on your end. Was reading this thread this morning -walked past both P-Cars thinking I would just take the Olds for a liesurely cruise into work for awhile. Double back up the driveway and chose the C4S. Highway was pretty clear because of the Holiday - so what the heck - did some triple digit runs at red line and it was fun as hell - thought if it is gonna blow might as well blow while I still have the warranty. But just like the C2 - when I try to blow these things up they just stay together.
And as for the OP - He's got to be one of the classiest members I've come across and I hope he sticks around this community. I know I am pulling for him.
Silotwo: Thanks. The guy that sold the car to me is going to the Porsche dealer today to ask about some CPO love since it's just two months past the expiration. We shall see. I hope I can report something positive later. Luckily I have a busy day at work to sort of distract me.
Eric: Yes, you can contact any car dealership (not just Porsche). I contacted every Porsche dealer in Nor Cal and only two replied at all. I also talked to a friend that owns a Nissan dealership but he said they don't have warranties for 2004 cars.
I hope it works out for the best. Maybe you'll even end up with a 3.8 screamer.....
You got a good PPI. Possibly if the guy had opened the oil filter, (which he may have done...) -- he might have seen some metal, maybe not.
But the chance of the engine going within the first few hours of normal driving is extremely small. It's "not fair" that it happened--but just that hand you were dealt.
So, as best you can, use it to your advantage. (And I don't mean some stupid, wishy-washy "learn from it.") Given the situation, do your best to come out of it with a better, more reliable engine than you would have otherwise. Also, with any new engine going in, you can make sure all the typical weak points have been addressed before it goes in. (There are lists on other posts.)
Hang in there. Sorry it happened. Unfortunately, threads like this can bring out people who claim to have infinite knowledge & experience and pontificate (scream) about how much better they would have handled things. b.s.
In most cases, spending all this money on a warranty instead of banking/investing it would make ZERO sense to me. Except, of course, in THIS case.
I'd love to know if the car was stored for a long period before sale?
Good luck, hopefully Porsche will step up!
Man that's one nice looking porshe but that's terrible news. If it were me, I would be happy it happened during the first 100 miles. Because if it was longer than that, you open your self up to people accusing you that it had to be something you did. (Even though someone has anyway) Some dealers have a 24 hour to 30 policy on there cars. Would be nice to call them to come pick it up and say no deal. Or like Joe Pesci....I think I want my money back. Thanks for sharing that's what makes this forum informative. And best of luck to you. 100 miles, I wouldn't. Fork out a dime!
Thanks RF! I am trying to stay positive.
I did LOL at your line about the warranty making sense in THIS case.
I do not believe it sat. It wasn't the guy's daily driver but he appears to have been driving it steady. I looked through his receipts from the P dealer and they show normal usage and would indicate it had not been sitting.
Man that's one nice looking porshe but that's terrible news. If it were me, I would be happy it happened during the first 100 miles. Because if it was longer than that, you open your self up to people accusing you that it had to be something you did. (Even though someone has anyway) Some dealers have a 24 hour to 30 day return policy on there cars. Would be nice to call them to come pick it up and say no deal. Or like Joe Pesci....I think I want my money back. Thanks for sharing that's what makes this forum informative. And best of luck to you. 100 miles, I wouldn't fork out a dime if the is was bought from a legitimate shop.
Thank you. It was a private party purchase so it is my car now. Seller is being helpful. I have no reason to think he hid anything from me. It sucks but I think it's just really bad luck. He is going to Porsche today to talk to them about the CPO and hoping they might work something out. If he still owned the car would probably have better luck but we shall see.... It is what it is....
Sorry I missed that part. In that case the Joe Pesci from Casino move would definately work. Your a good sport and with great attitude. Once again hope it works out and looking forward to your next thread after its up and running.
I really hope things work out for you as that has to be the worst luck in a Porsche this year that I've heard about.
If it's any consolation, my slightly used Aprilia bike a few years ago dropped a few valves within a couple hundred miles of ownership. At that time, Piaggio was acquiring Aprilia and their parts department was temporarily shut down during the merger. It took me over 1 year to obtain all the parts and another year to put it all back together. I guess the good thing about your situation is that parts are available and there are several options for you.
ME a dick? It's you that lives in Canada
Might explain Hurdi's "crankiness"!
Hey Gonzo if you think I am cranki now.. You should have known me when I did drink back in the 80s...
There you all are sucking up and all thinking "Glad it didn't happen to my car"..Don't tell me it didn't even 'CROSS YOUR MINDS".. Chicken B S None of you had the guts to speak out his mind and get to the bottom of this incident as I did. I wanted to find out just what really happened as I have a car with the same engine in it as this guys. So now we know, he didn't race the engine or over rev it for prolonged periods. He didn't have loud music so he couldn't hear the engine, He didn't slip up in his gear chnaging at the wrong speeds. He did everything right. The only thing he did wrong was not covering it with a warranty. I apoligised to him for speaking out but got part of my answer. Reverse psychology we call it. I will renew my extended warranty when mine runs out in 2 years time. This incident re-enforces that need. nuff said.
Douchenozzle of the year! What's up your butt, pal? To have the audacity to make such a post given the OP's horrible misfortune and then to criticize the simple replacement of clear side markers as "mods" when you have those ridiculous stickers on your car....truly unbelievable. I've never even HEARD of such a low-class Brit before today.
I don't know Hurdi...it never crossed my mind.
Look, this guy definitely had bad luck. It happens I guess, but even if he got on the freeway and "drove it like he stole it" as we are so often proud to say, the car should have held up. My biggest concern is this. What the heck does his wife think about the new car? If I dropped $30k on a car and the engine blew up in the first hour of driving, well, it would be hard to convince her that a Porsche should be in the garage. So SacTown, what is the story there (and you might as well post a pic of your wife since we will ask sooner or later!)
I truly feel bad for the guy. It appears he did everything reasonable and was looking forward to being the proud new owner of a great car. And being a C4S cab with the low miles on it, I am guessing it cost a lot more than $30k, maybe something north of 40k??? I don't think anyone should expect cars with mid 30's miles that have been maintained to experience catastrophic engine failures. Having recently purchased a 2004 C4S with low mileage myself, I have to say this sent shivers up my spine. Was if definitely diagnosed as IMS?
For the time being I think I will skip posting a picture of my wife as suggested above. I am very happy with her and how she looks. She was a song girl/cheerleader at the University of Oregon 20 years ago. So for whatever that's worth there you go.
She was ok with the money spent ($40k) last week which included the car, new tires, alignment, hose, fluids, and my fancy "mod" (replacement of pumpkins). She is less thrilled about the idea of dropping more cash but she's still very supportive.
I hope to have a meaningful update this week but I just don't know. Things are progressing. Seller has gone to Porsche and he says they were supportive of coming up with something. However, no monetary numbers discussed yet.
They need to confirm it's IMS as my PPI mechanic has concluded. He's a Porsche only mechanic so I think it's safe to assume, he will be right, and it will be IMS.
Under the circumstances that's fair enough. You have a lot of Pcar owners out here rooting for you so I sincerely hope that things work out. All the best.
Definitely a great sign that your marriage will last a very long time if not forever. Maybe this was good in the fact of testing out how your other half deals with adversity.
Engines can always be replaced but not that easy to find a great wife(especially when it comes to expensive hobbys like this).
Maybe use that line on her and take her out to dinner. lol.
I'm rootin for you brother. If I lived up north I'd offer to help in whatever way I could. It's a shame when bad things happen to good people, and you seem like a real stand-up kinda guy.
And I think you're handling certain mean-spirited and uncalled-for comments with dignity. Keep ignoring them. Whether he wants to admit it or not he's obviously got baggage that he's taking out on you.
That is a great line and an even better idea! Last fall when I was back and forth about the C4S - I want to, I can, I shouldn't, don't need it, need other things for the family, etc. It was my wife who finally said, "if you have the money and you want it just buy it".
After the C4S arrived I was detailing the C2 and the wife asked me why I wasn't polishing the new one - I told her I wanted to get the C2 ready to sell to put some of the cash back in the bank and she says nah, it's paid for right? I said yes, she said " you really like it don't you?" I said of course, she says, "then keep it and enjoy it".
So I did (to be honest I still feel sort of guilty - but eventually I'll get over it - or eventually I'll part with the C2 )
OH this is very
CIVIL
Mark..
\
Sorry Mark I see another posting from you where he was reprimanded. I will try to be more civil in the future. I will not assume or accuse but ask questions instead.
Hey STG
I am sorry that I accused and assumed when I should have come straight out with the questions to you. Even the questions would have sounded unkind but I needed to know fast what had truly happened. I couldn't believe what I was reading, couldn't believe that the same engine as mine would blow up on you in the first 100 miles of you driving it. I have a son only 2 years older than you and I would have been straight at him if this had happened to him to find the truth. In the same vein I would have helped him to sort out the problem afterwards as I would with you if that was at all possible. I wanted to know what had actually happened and to be able to prevent the same thing from happening to mine. Obviously my posting was very harsh but I couldn't think of another way of finding out everything that had happened before and during that 100 miles, only via reverse psychology. So Now I Know that you did everything right and I know you are not exaggerating. Now I ask the questions about the previous owner. He could have found metal in the filter, changed the filter and the oil, decided quickly to put the car on the market and the rest is history. Even the PPI could not have foreseen this happening. After all that I really do wish you the very best of luck in sorting this thing out. Let me say here how happy I was to see your postings when you were picking up your new 996 'like a kid in a candy store' and i was so happy for you. I am still shocked and so sad for you my friend. You take care and good luck from now on and I will be saying a little prayer for you and your wife tonight that things go very well in the eventual outcome of this horrid saga.
It's all good Hurdi. Thanks for the above message. I am sure we have all said stuff that came across wrong before. Luckily there are so many supportive and positive people on here that I was able to quickly get over my astonishment at your earlier post. In any event, apology accepted.
Moving on... am registering the car today and though I am not a personalized plate kind of guy, I might order something like this for my plates.
Been reading the thread since you started it. I was also very excited for you when you were going to pick up the car. We have all been through this feeling at some time or another. Your situation is unfortunate and I hope that this works out for you soon. Looks like your wife is offering great support and everyone here is also hoping for the best.
Think of this in the long run, that you will end up with a well sorted car that should give you many years of joy.
All the best.
SacGuy,
Welcome. This trial will pass. As to your options, I suggest that along with the possibility of Porsche coming through with a well priced replacement engine, you consider just who should build you your next motor. You live in an area well populated by good Indies. Are you conifident your PPI guy is one of them? If so, you might want to pick his brain on how a used motor could be refreshed to suite your needs.
At the risk of starting a firestorm, if it was me, I'd want an LNE IMS mod in my replacement motor and a selection of OEM updates that made sense to me and my Indie.
Welly welly welly well Hurdi... a D*&^ AND a Droog.. reverse ... SacTownGuy ~ Clearly you have class and intelligence beyond mine bc my heartfelt reply would have to be "OFF is the the general direction I wish to ..." This could have been me - and I will abso EAT my words abt not needing the IMSB upgrade... I had a similar experience, I am now suing the dealership in small claims for my paltry painful 3.4 k. You and your wife sound like Dan'l and I. I just bought my dreamboat 2001 c4 cab and less than 48 hrs later I had to come up w thousands of dollars that I no longer had bc I put it *all* down on machbx ... I have her back now, and I love my little p-car - actually yours is much nicer looking. Check into what the laws are in your state, remember that no matter how nice anyone has been in the transaction you still need to be made whole. I got told by the schister place "Hahahaha Your Fd" The summer will full of nice evenings and moonlight drives and you won't ever have to get into the "Neverending IMSB debate" I thank you. I will def start planning to get on top of the situation - so you have likely saved my car and my marriage. It's fixable and get what you paid for. I changed my pumpkins too straight away - I feel like I should put them back on or something ...
Hey Sactown,
I read your story and cringed. I'm so sorry for you. I just bought an 02 C4 with 20,000 miles on it. I got the PPI done at the PO local dealer (I am 70 miles away from him). Not driven much so a few problems surrounding that. I drove it straight to 9Elf motorsports ( no relation, I stole his name because he is my Porsche god). Had lots of metal in the filter so we did the retrofit along with RMS and water pump and a few other things.. Running really well now. I would highly recommend Michael at 9Elf. He's in Santa Rosa so not too far from you. He trained at the P factory so knows his stuff. Might be able to help out in some way. Good luck to you!
Machbx,
That's a good move, I was cringing from your post in the other thread adamant there is nothing wrong with the OEM IMSB and you would put a new OEM IMSB back in if the one came with the car is showing leakage.
While I have not done the IMSB replacement yet, it's only because I wanted wait a bit until it's time for clutch change and do it all at the same time, it is also because my 2000 which has a production date of Oct 2009, most likely has the dual-row bearing which in theory is more durable albeit not 100% bulletproof.
How I view the IMSB situation is that clearly a number of 996s have had engine failures, interestingly Porsche is not saying anything about this pattern, they just quietly replace the damaged engines under warranty, give some good-will to some people, and tell the rest "too bad, so sad your warranty is already up". If IMSB is NOT an issue in causing engine failures (note I'm not suggesting every engine failure is due to IMSB, particulary proven in the other thread which now turns out the timing chain broke), would you not expect Porsche to stand up and make it very publicly clear that their IMSB design has no issues?
Instead Porsche made at least two changes to the IMS and IMSB design, then got rid of the IMS altogether in 2009 IIRC.
Looking at the OEM bearing design, and compare with the LN version in terms of open face to allow better splash lubrication and ceramic hardened ***** to better tolerate reduced lubrication, one cannot but to recognize it is a better approach.
Now I really hope I have not jinxed myself.
nah, lets say not ... I just needed to see that beautiful pcar still in a blood puddle to make me see that logic. I have done an extensive amount of research and the points you make abso have merit, as to whether or not that will send me and the machbx on an upgrade spiral as correlating parts fail further down the the line will just have to be seen. It's all supposition until it's *your* woulda coulda shoulda - I am very much like the rest - there is just no point in, from here forward, not going back to my original idea: When I have the clutch replaced at 50-60 I will replace the bearing too. Until then I will do the guardian or something similar - I'd be stupid not 2. I hate to OP's pain go for nothing. Hubby is *always* right
{and most of the time, I'm very happy about that fact. ~~~;} ... and I'm still crazy abt the Viola!
How many miles on the car and did service history show it had sat around tor long period of time or long periods between oil change? Sorry to hear the story. When I bought mine ppi did not pull oil filter ... maybe that needs to be part of standard ppi recommendation on this board along with oil analysis? Let us know if porsche Na contributes to engine ...
37,500 or so miles.
All service at P dealer in your area. I have records since new.
No apparent long periods of sitting or between oil changes.
PPI shop said he is thinking a more detailed analysis of oil may become part of his PPI on these cars. Basically it will cost more but if you want him to do a PPI on a 996 he will require something more in-depth. I am not exactly sure.
Car is at P dealer waiting to be confirmed as IMS. Then we will see what they will do.
SCT - I've put you and your Hot Wheels on the nightly prayer list. I hope you know that most of us here would do just abt anything to make this right by you. You done all the right things, I'm hoping karma has your back.
To Sactownguy:- Unless I missed something in a post on this terrible incident, and at this point I have to be very careful to be civil but here is a question. Where did the engine drop the oil from? I mean what part of the engine did the oil spew out from? Has this been defined as yet? I take it that it is engine oil and not transmission (gearbox) oil on the car park. Thats it. Thats my question. Thanks...
Hard to say which I admire more...
The avatar of Mz. Machbx or Hurdi's bravery at re-entering this thread.
(love that image machbx...very 2001 Kubrick)
Hey Sactownguy,
My whole hearted condolences to you!
It's always so disappointing reading threads like this.
I hope you get her back on the road soon and enjoy the ride again.
On the bright side the worst possible thing has happened now things can only get better!
So..... what was the condition of the IMSB??? What was the source of the metal in the filter? It would be helpful ANYTIME someone removes their IMS bearing to know the condition and see pictures of it. Maybe start a new thread with the info. Thanks in advance.
I am not very mechanical so am not sure where the oil was coming out from. I think the mechanic took pictures so I will see if I can get those.
Porsche confirmed yesterday that it was IMS failure. Now waiting to see what they will do. Could hear as early as today the dealer said.
The dealership has been very nice thus far.
I will keep my fingers crossed everything will work out for you. (Least amount out of pocket as possible)
I feel really bad reading your experience and now I am extremely paraniod walking up to my car.
I wish you all the best and hope you are back on the road in your 996 real soon!
The PO could have easily known about this upcoming catastrophic event. He could have found metal bits in the filter, then changed it and the oil just before you bought it from him. No trace. Then the PPI, even if he had inspected the filter and put another in there, would be unaware of the upcoming failure. In other words he would not have seen anything amiss even if you had insisted that he look inside the old filter. Or inspected the oil for that matter. So don't feel so bad about things. Thats the way we can all be conned. I would still like to know what part of the engine the oil came from onto the car park if thats possible.
Hurdi- You could be right of course. However, wouldn't he have taken it to Porsche himself and tried to get them to do something about it since he has always serviced it at the dealer and his CPO just ended in March? While you could be right in other cases I don't think that makes sense here. I think I had a case of horrible luck.
Yeh that is true. Then again it just depends on what the warranty covered. Its 2 months since it ran out anyway. I suppose it's open to questioning. It's the bearing at fault anyway so I should not even be thinking along those terms.
The PO is one who took it to the dealer for me to get the process started. It would be pretty ballsey for him to do this if he had just tried himself in the last 2 months. Doesn't really make any sense. I promise I have thought about this just a little bit this week and thought about the options. I think the PO is clean, the PPI couldn't pick it up, and I had horribly amazing crappy luck. In any event a former $100k car with 37,500 miles on it has had a major failure and that really sucks no matter who is paying for the new motor!
[QUOTE=SacTownGuy;9578356]The PO is one who took it to the dealer for me to get the process started. It would be pretty ballsey for him to do this if he had just tried himself in the last 2 months. Doesn't really make any sense. I promise I have thought about this just a little bit this week and thought about the options. I think the PO is clean, the PPI couldn't pick it up, and I had horribly amazing crappy luck.
In any event a former $100k car with 37,500 miles on it has had a major failure and that really sucks no matter who is paying for the new motor
And aint that the truth. Well I hope you get the best outcome possible from this crappy incident.
I know I tend to be overly trusting but under CPO the PO could have had the engine replaced at zero cost, so doubtful that he tried to pull a fast one. The fact that the car was properly serviced at an authorized dealer is most likely the big plus here.
Really glad to hear that Porsche is stepping up, would be even better to hear that they cover the entire tab, but any contribution will be a good thing.
I usually have the dealer change my oil between 4500 and 5500 miles and last round had an oil analysis done on top of checking the filter. For the $35($25 if I skip the TBN) that it costs I will be having that done at every oil change now. I know I could change my own oil and save a few bucks, but I have a thing with service records and only an authorized dealer touching my cars.
Fingers crossed for you John - you might be enjoying your new ride sooner than you think and with no stress about an impending IMSB failure. I believe that even under good will you will have a 2 year 100% warranty on the replacement engine.
Karma - "what other people do to you is their Karma - how you react to them is your Karma". Might just be true............
WOW that is just GREAT. Big congrats SAC guy. Maybe it's good news Friday. I had an oil leak develop in my C4 and just found out that it was only the hose that connects to the AOS that I needed to replace. Not as big as your amazing news but still made my day. LIke Bill Murray once said, "It's Miller time".
YESSSS! {With Awesome sauce!} I have heard that never, ever, ever happens. But karma does have your back ~~~;} I'm so glad! Like I sd could've been my machbx just as easy as yours ... I am a grease monkey - but I made sure my Porsche shop is the one I want to work with. Many pics soon I hope ~~~;} Cheers! Jenn & the Machbx
Big plus that the CPO had just expired. Had the CPO been a year out, then most likely be a different answer. You definitely bought the car at the right time and it decided to do what it did at the right time. Having the previous owner step up and help with the dealer also worked out. Wonder if the previous owner didn't step up if Porsche would've still stepped in. Hopefully it will be covered 100% as I have heard that they will usually do the cost of the engine and you'd be responsible for the labor. While in there I would recommend you have the clutch done. Great news all the way around.
Porsche is paying for the motor in full. I have to pay labor. I am very pleased with this. I did not push for more because this struck me as a fair deal.
Now the question for you experts. I didn't ask Porsche but I assume I am allowed to get the engine installed elsewhere. The guy that did my PPI has offered to install for free. What would you do? Pay money to have it installed by a P dealer or get it free from a Porsche only indy?
Again, I haven't asked Porsche so maybe they tell me that's not an option. I don't know.
Just thinking out loud regarding my options.
Thoughts?
If there is any warranty to be offered by Porsche on the engine, then I think it's best you have it installed by the authorized dealership, if not then you should be able to get the engine installed elsewhere since there is nothing to gain by having it installed at the Porsche dealership.
On the other hand Porsche may insist that you have to use their dealership as a condition for you to receive the free motor even without offering any warranty on the engine.
Suggest you ask the questions and get the responses IN WRITING as documentation to support any future "discussion" with Porsche.
See what the cost difference is between the Dealer & Indy (if option). Dealer option would help if another issue came up later - may warranty the engine longer.
P-car dealer. They also stepped up to get the engine replaced so they would benefit with the labor cost. By going else where they may change the stipulations..
I know it will a more than a grand in labor - but they will guarantee that motor for 2 yrs. So when you go back to your insurance quotes ideas that you had b - just think of this as insurance - cheap insurance. Just something to think about ... AND guess what - no IMS worries for you! Your p-car just went up in value.
I would definitely take the opportunity and try to upgrade the motor to a x51 and pay whatever difference it would be which would probably be another grand. Have the clutch changed and you'd be a real nice place...
Dealer - they obviously put some effort into this - paying labor only is huge gift and if it was me I would be loyal to them, considering the delta in labor cost between an Indy and the dealer I would consider it chump change compared to the cost of a Porsche crate engine. And it keeps the cars service records very neat and tidy. As others have said, consider a clutch while you are at it - should be a parts cost only deal.
If the dealer will allow it, and mine does, you can purchase a clutch kit on your own from Sunset Porsche for under $600 - and it's an OEM kit.
Did they give you a time frame for receipt and installation of the engine?
And - this is one item to be on a gratitude list - I am so happy that this worked out so well for you.
Seriously, a new factory rebuild with a 2 year warranty is well worth the price of installation at the dealership. I'd guarantee they would insist they do the install. Beats the aftermarket warranty hands down. I'm sure it was the low miles, CPO and dealer service that did it. Very nice outcome. In fact, I'd say this is a BETTER circumstance than if it never happened. I'd pay just installation for a new motor ANYTIME, regardless! Also, +1 on the clutch, even though it only has 37k miles. A new installed clutch will have a MUCH better feel over the original, and you'd really have a fantastic drivetrain experience. Congrats!
Been there!
This is like winning the lottery. Write the check to the dealer with a big smile and hand the service manager and tech that did the work gift cards to a nice restaurant.
Labor is nothing and you will most likely pay for fluids. Not only is the motor new, but all the accessories like injectors, sensors, starter, alternator, PD pump, belt and tensioners, all emission related stuff.
PNA is helping you and the Dealer. Having the install done at an Indy is not an option. GL!
So glad this is working out for you! I can't imagine PCNA giving you a crate motor and letting you take it down the street to the indy for installation. I would definitely let the dealer install it and count my blessings. +1 on the new clutch.
Labor is nothing
How much is "nothing?" They gave me a number that seems extremely high for the install (unless I misunderstood them). Just curious what everybody thinks the install should cost. I don't want to be greedy as I feel very grateful. I am just curious what people think the install should cost?
Installing a crate motor couldn't take more than 10-12 hours for a properly trained dealer tech. In So Cal the dealer likely gets ~$160/hr. So, $1600-2000 plus fluids and supplies? My best guess.
Sactownguy wants us to guess how much to install. Maybe that's the catch. Maybe the dealer wants 10k to install the "free" motor? That would not paint the dealer in such good light after all.
I got a quote for for an oil leak at the oil pump and oil line from a Dallas dealer(Park Place Porsche) who did the PPI. 14 hours/$2000. Turned out not to be leaking. So, yes dealers are sometimes opportunists.
STG - they should use the Mitchelll to quote job hours. Just ask them if they do and how many hours it says. Everyone from Porsche to Ford uses that. And ask them how much they charge an hour. My P shop charges 130 per. Also ask what your cost for fluids Willi be. If you are like me you sunk all your money into buying it. And my shop understood this. Get a quote from your service manager. You have a 90 k car. They will treat you well. I pd for 11.5 hours of work
Also. With regard to the clutch kit. I had Andreya @ sunset send my a quote for OEM Porsche parts after I got the quote. Sunset must sell parts w vey little markup. Peoria Porshce matched her quote. This saved me 1400 on the clutch/rms/flywheel job. Sunset was recommended to me and I def recommend to you
I think the best strategy for your current situation is taking the free motor to let your PPI guy to install it free for you, then buy an after market warranty for 3 years with about $3000 to $4000, good luck bro!
Maybe but I have yet to see an after market warranty worth the paper. 4 out of 5 dentists agree get the quote from you dealer - then we will chat sum more - the dealer also GAVE you an engine. That NEVER happens - in any version of this reality. You stand to be in far better shape bc of this happening - also a Rod Serling moment.
So happy things are working out for you. Let us know what you decided on labor. I may just go ahead and pay it if I were you. Still in shock Porsche stepped up.
It would be great for the rest of us to have a look at your oil filter, after all those talk of IMS guardian and how the amount of metal deposit in the filter would show an early warning of the IMS failure.
but we have never seen what an oil filter from an IMS victim look like.
That would be the first time we would really see if there is any way to detect this or not. I am sure your mechanic would like to know as well if there was any way he could have actually know about this. I doubt he would.
Just bad luck, I am so glad to read that you are sorting it out.
my 2 cents, pay the dealer to install it and enjoy the warranty that comes with the new engine.
just caught this thread and must say i am very glad for you that porsche stepped up to the plate - i for one am very surprised they have done this considering all the others who have begged for an engine.
great news and enjoy your even newer car
Id personally pay Porsche to install it, they are giving you a new engine which is $$$$$, the least you can do is ensure its installed properly by them.
I would have the dealer (porsche) put it in. Take the Porsche warranty for free. Pay for fluids and labor. Having a new clutch as well. My guess at around $7.. The other option would be to have your indy do it free (if there is no stipulation from Porsche) Pay for fluids and clutch and extended warranty and the cost would still be about the same depending on how many years and/or milage comes with the extended warranty. STG its gonna cost you a bomb whichever way the cats jumps but you have virtually a new car out of the deal. I had an upgraded transmission in mine via extended warranty and Porsche Dealers in Lancaster PA. It still cost me almost a grand in 'Whatevers' before they released the car to me. They told me the clutch was fine. I didn't even know about the IMS those days. The car has run like a dream since. For how long???????????????????? who knows???????????????
Thats great news!!! I would definately let the dealer do the install. Hopefully the price isn't ridiculous. I'm guessing that the only reason you would ponder such a question is the price for the labor is well over 3k? Keep in mind that it will have a warranty now which you were thinking of getting.
I can't speak for Porsche but I can for BMW and I know for a fact through a friend I have that works there that there are people at BMW NA that monitor as many message boards as possible. BMW has tried, how be it ever so slight, to maintain a connection to their old school customers for which they no longer make cars for (BMW's current clientele seem to be "business owners and successful self-employed people that are merely leasing their vehicles through their respective businesses for the most minimal time possible and who will never see a track and who perform minimal, if any, maintenance on the vehicle")
Whether they gather information to use for research or actually act on anything is another story. In this case, the good-will that Porsche has provided will go far and wide to help not only them but the dealer who will do the install and anyone who comes in contact with STG. Even STG's friends, who might tend to like to wax on about fantastic -and true- stories a bit (ahem) will become 1-person Porsche PR firms for DECADES. This action on their part is epic. I've gone from being a BMW person considering a Porsche to NO-WAY owning a Porsche, back to making plans towards a
new
Porsche. Well done Porsche!
That's
great PR!
Oh right-my vote is for the dealer to do the install with very detailed paperwork regarding hours etc... If this is a long block then the time should be less which means it
should
be cheaper. Having said that, I'm saying you're looking at about $5-7k (closer to 5) out the door with warranty and clear instructions on new motor break-in. A dealer can do the work in 2-days once the motor is there.
I would have the dealer do it as well.
Regarding the engine - If I recall this car correctly - it had the engine replaced previously - in the 30k mile range under Warranty - isn't that correct? If so - I wonder if this has anything to do with the goodwill being shown here.
O
Congrats.. so far.
Will the crate engine be the same 2004/996 vintage-IMSB prone variant or a revised 997 version?
Good luck and really appreciated your internet poise a few pages back STG..
This is awesome news!!! I'm so glad to hear things are turning in the right direction for you. Definitely have the dealer do the work. Don't even think of having an indy do it if for no other reason than the work warranty and good will/good faith you'll get from Porsche NA if something else goes wrong. My guess is that the fact that dealers have serviced your car routinely to date is one of the reasons they've stepped up to the plate.
-Eric
So STG which is it. New engine or major work done at approx 30000 miles. How many miles has the engine done since the work/engine wa completed and was the dreaded XXX replaced. And the last question is, what is the milage of the car now? Thanks.
Yea, STG - I'm wondering if what they did didn't cause this - I have read quite a bit that sometimes IMS failure actually means = we don't know what's wrong with it/can't fix it
I have to agree with others that I'd pay for the dealership to install the engine...if for no other reason that if something happened a few months from now, there is no question that the entire process has been under Porsche control. I'd treat it the same as investing in a warranty for the engine. Glad this is working out well.
Sactownguy
I've just read this whole thread from end to end and it reads like a suspense novel. At parts my heart was in mouth.
I'm really really glad it seems to be working out for you. Just one question.
If you had the dealer replace the engine (which I would be in favour of) how does the warranty work. Would it be with the dealer who replaced the engine or any P-dealer.
Apologies if I sound dumb but I live in a small country where there is just one P-dealer and IIRC you do not live where you are having this work done.
Best of luck.
Thank you. I am trying to get confirmation of the warranty details. My understanding is that Porsche NA is paying for the engine. My question is does it come with the two year warranty. I am working on getting a firm answer in writing.
I agree with this.
I will really miss your input. You gave the thread such spark! Oh well. I don't think you can really back out though Hurdi. You'll be back!
Thank you.
I truly appreciate everybody's positive comments and PM's. It has been an amazingly up and down 10 days for me. I hope to be driving the car next week. I will try to post whatever other information I can piece together on the IMS issue. I am still working on that.
Hope you're enjoYing your new wheels. Got my 2003 996 c2 lat summer and loving it. Years ago I had 2 356s, but this one is so refined. Congrats on the nw fam member
STG - I had my engine replaced by Porsche too about a year and a half ago.
She drives like a brand new car.
The cost for my dealership to install the new engine was about $6K.
It came with a 2 year unlimited mileage warranty.
I would recommend you get it installed by the dealer, get the free warranty that comes with it, and own a new car that you'll end up enjoying for many many years to come.
Your indy that did the PPI if he does it for free, will take some short cuts as it's pro bono that your dealer will not.
I appreciate your post so much as it sounds like your dealer did you even worse than I am getting it done to me. That makes me feel a bit better.
My dealer shaved a few bucks off when I squawked so I think we are cool. I'll post details if anything bad happens. However, at this point I feel like everything is going as well as can be expected under my unusual course of events.
I am possibly picking it up tomorrow. We shall see....
The PO is doing this because it is his reputation on the line after transacting a private party sale. If I had my car serviced at the dealership and something happened like this right after I sell it, I would be pretty upset too and would try to make it right after spending all this money at the dealership for service.
Thanks. Just remember to break-in the engine as if it were a new engine.
Do a search on engine break-in or read the manual.... It was very very painful for me to follow the break in procedure for the first 5,000 miles...after which I took it to a track day
You Tube
I'm mostly a lurker on here, but I just spent an hour reading every post in this thread.
Im an ASE Certified auto tech and you did the right thing having the dealer take care of the install. The problem with having the indy shop installing the engine is they may rush the installation since they aren't making a dime off of it. Im not saying that they would screw something up, but free warranty work can be rushed by some technicians i have worked with over time.
This way, the Porsche tech is getting paid book time (warranty book time) and will not be in a rush.
I agree with a previous poster about giving the tech and service manager a gift car for a GOOD restaurant. But i would do it at the beginning of the process. I take pride im ALL of my work, but there are a couple customers who have tipped me in the past and i will spend extra time looking over their vehicle (even if im not getting paid for it)
Obviously this is all just my opinion, do what you want. Im glad things are working out for you!
Bill
SacTownDude-
Wow! I went from jazzed, to bummed, to frustrated, to encouraged, back to jazzed! Great folks here.
I have a 03 C4 Cab near you, Vacaville. If you want to go for a drive, let's do it!
Best to you,
Jeff
This is a source reference. Confirm exact model applicability in the original material.
