Is IMS risk on a '99 996 enough to pass on it?

All of the internet banter on IMS risk, RMS leaks, and risk of catastrophic engine failure on 996's (especially early 99-01) has me so scared that I am considering passing on a really nice. low mile 99 silver/blk with aero package altogether. Really, what is the real risk out there? and is there significantly less risk on an '02-'04 996, or should I just hold off for a 997? Someone told me to totally stay away from '99's (deal breaker)...and that an '02 was much better due to a different engine (3.6L)?? Pls help me cut through the crap/hype that is out there eating me up. Thanks. John

they all have issues.... every year since 40+ years. I see just as much 3.6 failure vs 3.4 on the internet.... though I cant quantify them.... I dont think anyone can. The expert will say the 3.4 is more likely to fail but anyone's opinion is as good as the experts... no BS. My 3.4 has been great (knock on wood). Bottom line, there are known problems with the 3.4 and the 3.6...... the rule of buying the latest is the best, but in 10 years time... their issues will show up like the rest of them.

If you have a few years to read all the thread on this crap, just search. Your answer will be as clear as mud.

My 2003, 3.6L engine blew at the track a couple of weeks ago. I bought the car 2 years ago, no warranty and I must say no engine issues at all. I didn't start tracking it until about 8 months ago and I'm an ex-racer so I might be a little harder on the old girl than most. I don't think it was the tracking that made it blow, I just think it was pure bad luck. Initially we thought it was an IMS failure but it looks like it threw a rod or bent one of the valves which then weakend and imploded in the engine. A couple of weeks previous a friend of mine threw a bearing on I-10 while heading to a track event with a bunch of his buddies, again a 2003 car. Fortunately for him, Porsche came through and gave him a new engine since his warranty had just expired, lucky sod. The 2003 is supposed to have the factory upgrade already for the IM Shaft which is thicker than the 99-00 models where most of the failures were. The only thing I would say about the IMS is that there is no warning, and what little warning you might get is still going to cost you $10K to strip down and fix from any shop. If I had to do it all over again I would still do the same thing, I would have bought this car again in a heartbeat as she is a stunner, and at the price, anyone would have picked her up also. There is an upgrade of the IM Bearing that you can get done post purchase which might give you some extra security but apart from that nothing can be done for the IM shaft apart from a complete engine breakdown which will cost about the same as a 2000 car. One thing I might have changed is to spend $3-4K on a good after market warranty that covers the engine completely, since if it blows you're looking at a hefty price for a new one or even second hand. If you are going to buy a 996 then get some warranty on it, you might pay up front for the after market warranty but it could save you a lot in the long run. I forked out and got a new factory engine, comes with a 2 year unlimited mileage, parts and labor warranty. I went with the facory engine, thanks to North Houston Porsche , which only really came in a couple of thousand more than the second hand with no warranty and 20K on it already. The difference in price between a 997 and a 996 for me just now is still too great to justify waiting, I'd buy a 996 again no problems. Actually the day the engine blew I was already looking at a replacement 996 but just couldn't bring myself to tell the old girl her time was up and I was trading her in. lol. If you want to see what happens when it blows, hit the link below. As you can see I still managed to track out and keep the car under control, what might have happened if the engine had just locked up on the main straight at 135-140 mph who knows..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZqgyVpSuxc

The great majority of '99's are trouble free cars with only the usual things that you look after as any car 10 years old or more. I have 78000 miles and thoroughly enjoy my car as i know every owner of a '99 does. Like Redridge mentionned, the "dreaded IMS" issue has been so put out of proportion that the biggest "success" has been to lower the resale value of the car so someone (like you!) can purchase into a truly amazing car for a ridiculously low buy in. my 2 cents I love love love my car. Pete

John, I have owned two 99 996s since about 2003. They have been fantastic cars. They have been two of the most reliable cars that I have ever owned and I drive them hard. It is one of my favorite years. It was available from the factory with a limited slip differential. I would not hesitate to buy another 99 996. They represent a fantastic bargain right now...great performance for very little money. Don't let the IMS scare keep you from buying a great car. There were thousands built, with only a small percentage having the catastrophic problems you are concerned about . See "Porsche 996, the Essential Companion" or "Excellence Magazine" article on 996 reliability for further information.

John, How much is the one you're looking at ,if you pass, I might buy it....

Once I "get over" the IMS concern, if I can -- then I have a couple 996's in the hunt. (maybe an aftermarket warranty is the way to go). 20K Mile '99 3.4L or 50K mile '02 3.6L for about the same price..... Hmmm.

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The MY99 probably/possibly/potentially/maybe/ have a bit more risk to them. As others have said, seeing a bad IMS on an 02,03,04 is not commonplace but it definately happens. Hell, it happens on early 997s as well. The 99s have the potential (read again) Potential for: IMS failure (as do all 996s) RMS (just an annoyance that can be fixed for $800) potentially pourous blocks (more often associated with 99-00) slipped cylinder liners (more often associated with 99-00) and intermix via a cracked head (not common, but can happen to all 996s). If you are looking for a daily driver that can never let you down and is your prmiary source of transportation for you and your family members, and you depend on it, look elsewhere. Your dealing with an 11 year old car, forget the mileage. Make sure you have a budget set aside for common repairs and maintence. These are great cars and alot of fun. If it is your toy and you have funds set aside for the little things, buy it and enjoy. Don't forget the PPI from a Porsche specialist, not a dealer!!!!

Sounds like folks might suggest the '02 MY even with more miles.... not a guarantee, but perhaps a slight reduction in risk (and a few more hp to boot). Trouble is in my case, I would lose the Aero kit on the 99 Silver....for a '02 Black/blk C2.

Genuine MK1 aerokit part cars are more rare and harder to come by than the 02+. I think they are more attractive that a MK2 stock but its just my personal opinion. I would budget the $1500 on the IMS bearing retrofit on either car if it makes you uncomfortable.

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All depends what is most important. I love the Aero. It is a great look for the car. But i would probably go for the MY02 do to the refinements that took place that year. The MY02 has the turbo headlights, refined aerodynamics, the 3.6 engine and a more unique front end look. What options are on the 02? might help to make the case for it over the Aero. On second thought, if these cars are about equal money the MY99 is likely too much $$$. Low miles isn't necessarily a good thing with these cars and 50K on a well cared for 02 might be the better than a 99 that sat.... and sat..... and sat for the last 11 years.

I'd go for whatever car comes out of your PPI the best, and within your budget for maintenance.

PPI is worthless in diagnosing catistrophic engine failure. 99' is an excellent car, get the aero, put in the IMS retrofit and be happy

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BTW awesome vid!! sucky ending, but there's the thing...any time - no warning... get the protection of either the IMS retro - or a really good warranty or both... gawd that sucks dude! We just rebuilt a 3.6 and his ppopped at the gas station.. pulled in, git gas, hit the key and WHAM - game over....under 1000rpm sitting still

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very true. for a MY99, I would do a PPI, an oil analysis, a compression test of each cylinder, the LN engineering IMS bearing, and the updated RMS seal and bolts. That is as protected as you can get for that car, next to a warranty.

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Don't rely on the PPI. the least I can say is that they go over it quickly. Get one just in case but make sure you spend some time driving the car at all speed, including highway speed. And then get under the car and check for anything crack or ding that could indicate an accident. Carfax is sometime clean even when the car is wrecked. On the good side, most Porsche owner have the money to repair their car and very often do it at the dealer. I am in the market right now for warranty. they are not cheap and their website or customer service is non existant so it is scary.. but for info I got quoted +- $2800 for 2 years warranty with Fidelity Warranty Service on their platinum plan. 3 years and it cost you $4500 ! ouch. I got similar quote from Total Protection Services, but I heard forum member getting their engine replace and paid by Fidelity after IMS failure so I'll certainly go with Fidelity. One thing about warranty -> no more modding and need to do regular documented maintenance.

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Its blown out of proportion until it happens to you (which it could at any time). Then that great deal becomes far less of one.

look - no need making it more than it is... its a bearing, it can be replaced, and if you dont replace it it "might" let go on you.........my 99' has 116k miles on the original ..... still cruising strong as hell its nothing more than that fix = ~$15K prevent = ~ $2.5k (if you do the clutch at the same time... and why wouldnt you)

if i were in the market for a 99 right now, i'd figure ~20k for the car + $600 for IMS upgrade + $600 for labor for installation. so for ~$21 to 22k, i'd be sitting pretty in a 996 for the approximate price of a new, low optioned, chevy malibu or honda accord.

What an emotional roller coaster this is. Here are my conclusions from all the above, and ALL of the other posts. > Yes, there is possibly/probably/maybe slightly more IMS/catastrophic failure risk on '99s, but seems like all 996's with intermediate shaft would have some similar risk. > '02 model might reduce the risk somewhat, and provide a 3.6 engine, different headlights, and a bit of change to the interior design. BUT, still has the intermediate shaft/bearing potential, albeit from several technicians lower frequency. > low mile car is not necessarily better than a 50K mile car. Seems like the decision should be: Do the IMS retrofit on any 996, parts and labor probably $1500 - $2000 for peace of mind and it costs about 1 year of a warranty (without it, I think I would lose sleep). Go for the '02 with higher miles (as long as its been maintained, and passes PPI) over the '99 aero low miles. OR, **** all of this, and go buy an NSX with a Honda Vtech....

What an emotional roller coaster this is. Here are my conclusions from all the above, and ALL of the other posts. > Yes, there is possibly/probably/maybe slightly more IMS/catastrophic failure risk on '99s, but seems like all 996's with intermediate shaft would have some similar risk. > '02 model might reduce the risk somewhat, and provide a 3.6 engine, different headlights, and a bit of change to the interior design. BUT, still has the intermediate shaft/bearing potential, albeit from several technicians lower frequency. > low mile car is not necessarily better than a 50K mile car. Seems like the decision should be: Do the IMS retrofit on any 996, parts and labor probably $1500 - $2000 for peace of mind and it costs about 1 year of a warranty (without it, I think I would lose sleep). Go for the '02 with higher miles (as long as its been maintained, and passes PPI) over the '99 aero low miles. OR, **** all of this, and go buy an NSX with a Honda Vtech....

Honda's are unbelievably reliable, drove my Acura to 565000 km's but at the end of the day it still doesn't generate the visceral excitement that my Porsche does to me as i walk towards it with cars keys in hand! Pete

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Yeah... I want a Honda, NOT! IMHO RMS leaks are no big deal. Annoying and a bit expensive, but not catastrophic. Historically, 911s have always leaked something. I would not do an RMS repair unless you have a leak. Not all cars are going to leak. The IMS problem is completely seperate - and I agree, kind of frightening. Personally, I've decided to happily ignore the potential and just whistle past the graveyard... One thing - If you do the RMS, think about installing a new clutch and DMF while you are there. Particularly if it is a new car to you and you really don't know how the clutch has been treated. Its only another 600-800 in parts, all the labor is already done. 996 clutches are good for up to 100k, but if you are already in there - do it.

You know you want the 99, go get it checked out it could be a peice of crap and you're working yourself up for no reason.... Find out a good porsche shop in your area, I'm sure lots in these forums can recommend and have them do a full inspection on it. Just let them know that you'll be bringing the business back to them for maintenance and they should do a good check on it. Either way you'll be happy when you hit the winding roads.

JF914 - you got it

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+1 except for the Honda part.

yea, that comment might get ya banned

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Fyi, That was purely a Boxster engine issue, with the early cars. Never heard of a single porous block problem with a 996..ever

My 99 non aero 996 3.4 has been very reliable for 4 ys. this coming Sept. I've only driven 15k miles in that period,but I am a happy owner and have dealt with basic maintanance issues to date. Hope that helps in your search.

So I see that it is UNANIMOUS! (Amazing for this board.) Buy the 996!!

+1 for buy it (pending all the ussual hurtles)

FWIW I bought a low mileage (28,000 miles) 99 Cab two years ago in Florida and drove it back home to Calgary (2800 miles). During the trip the car ran like a train and didn't use any oil. Worst problem I've had was the Pirelli P7's on the car were noisy. I've since replaced them with Sport Contacts. The car has essentially been trouble free with only oil changes every few thousand kilometres. I just replaced the rear springs because they had sagged a bit but that was a personal choice. I did the cahnge myself and the new springs were about $150 for the pair. I'm convinced that the concentration of problems that show up in these forums doesn't truly represent all of the cars that are out there just clicking off the miles.

Nope, just take the extra precaution to try to make sure its not going to happen to you.

After explaining to a little nephew visiting from california that there are schools of sharks at night right off the reef runway you can see on the coast from the livingroom windows and I was going night diving he cried big time as I left that night. Paint a smiley face on the sharks and get a diffeent engineered bearing and you should see calmer waters PS keep your dive knife super sharp though.

before you buy, you might want to know that there are some cool body parts that you can put on a wide body and not on a narrow body....im just sayin, I wish I new that before I bought.......also, you can buy my 01 cab from me, has a 5 year 102,000 mile warranty on it...and I got a hard top on it

on second thought..nevermind...i like it too much...and I just used the convertible the other day, and it was great..

Get the 996...and stop worrying so much....the guy who does everything right ussually gets run over by the bus.

although, if you can hold off for a 997, and you really like the headlights on the 997, I would just hold off for it, not because it is any more reliable, but because you will be spending the rest of your life trying to change your lights to look like the new ones...

I have 108K on my 99 C4. In the 30K miles I've owned it, I have had to replace plugs, MAF, front pads, and 6 tires. I have replaced (at 105K) just due to age/mileage AOS(was bad), waterpump, IMS bearing, RMS, clutch, chain guides and adjusters. It's been a great car and just as reliable as the 87 944S (186K). Rick 99 996C4 87 944S

I guess for me it comes down to if your a gambler at heart or not plus your ability to earn. If you are going deep to buy a toy and want independance from worry, buy a Japanese liter sport bike and go nuts. If you don't like the bikes then for twenty large look for the most grin for the dollar. If your a gambler, get the p car and expereince all the glory these cars deliver with the slight fear that it may cost more than you originally thought it would. I'm of the mind to follow your passion and have fun!. Life is short. You might get into a (like most of us) 996 that you can beat the snot out of and enjoy all the benefits with little to no expense other than regular maintenance items..... or the thing could grenade after getting gas. What a lame way for a car to crap out btw. If blowing an engine is the end of your bank account, engagement, marriage, kid's tuition etc. than buy the NSX and hope you don't suffer the tranny woes they have. Just kidding. All performance cars have some weak achilles heel. If the cost of a MAYBE catastrophe is the reason to pass due to not being able to swallow the cost or not wanting to spend the coin then there you go. The cars rock and the (IMO) minor chance that they could blow an engine is not significant enough to not own one. We all have different pockects etc. What is your risk factor for a car? Only one that knows is you. As a sidenote.... My dad is a die hard buy American bless his old multiple bypassed heart guy. He buys a new car every two years. The last four have been Corvettes. He has had more POS issues than I'd be willing to put up with. Blew up the engin on his C6 at less than three grand on the freeway. Of course it was warrantied but seriously, how much crap can you live with?

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for doing it right !!!

What's an IMS?

Just get a gpod warranty and do the IMS retrofit when you do the clutch. One bad alternator and my warranty has allready paid for 50% of itself, and I have 2.8 years left on the warranty.

sold my 99 and looking for only 99 to 00. they are lighter, more responsive, and cable throttle. imo, the way to go. if you are worried about maintenance, all 911's have had minor issues. this one is no different, nothing is for sure, if it scares you, walk away. you can either stomach the care or you can't afford it. imo, this is one of the most undervalued, high performance, low maintenance vehicles available. at these prices, write a check and forget about it.

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...And has now been discounted as a poor German to English translation of the 1999 Carrera Service Information manual. See page 180 in Adrian Streather's book - 'Porsche 996, The Essential Companion'. He also debunks the so called 'lokasil' cly wall issues and the 'Slipping Sleeves' issue. Page 182 covers the IMS. This book is worth the small price you'll pay if you own a 996 or want to buy one.

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Priceless!!! **** or get off the pot. Go get it already!

dont laugh... some of us didnt know BEFORE buying a 996... those 3 letters are the cause of many sleepless nights I M iss S leep!!

+1 for, If it has an IMS... it has a potential of letting go... Ed, sometimes you're better off in the dark.

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+1

2002 996 $28K OBO. Says "IMMACULATE CONDITION". Looks and sounds like a nice car! .........I have no affiliation. Link to ad: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/1706207702.html PORSCHE CARRERA - Must Sell!! - $28000 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2002 PORSCHE CARRERA - IMMACULATE CONDITION!! Arctic Silver Exterior; Metropol Dark Blue Leather Interior Low miles: only 45k Manual transmission Very clean, always garage kept All original parts and paint - no accidents, no 'stories' Interior leather still new, passenger seat rarely used Clear Title in hand! Asking only $28k OBO; Must sell, make an offer!! Partial list of options include: Full Leather Package, Comfort Package (Includes Heated Seats), Xenon Headlights, One Touch Open/Tilt Moon Roof, On-Board Computer Management System, Stock AM/FM + CD Stereo, Climate Controlled Air-Conditioning, Cruise Control, Dual Power Seats With Lumbar Support, Leather And Aluminum Shift **** And Brake Handle, Porsche Stability Management Skid Control, Dual Jetted Washers Per Headlight, Dual Front And Side Airbags, Cross Drilled Ventilated Disc With Anti-locking Brakes, Alarm With Lighted Keyless Entry System, Telescopic Steering, Factory Upgraded 18" Carrera Wheels with Porsche Color Crest.

That looks like a nice car, with good options, at a good price. If it checks out...

must sell??? seriously, its probably a great car

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1999's are cable throttle and cable hood and trunk. The dead battery entry problems are not an issue. 2000 went to e-gas and hood/trunk solenoids, no cables. However, 1999 S4's are e-gas, no cable. '99's are the lightest.

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Well, to quote one of the other guys...I am "off the pot" (and being from Boulder,CO, these days that is getting more difficult to say. :-) I am passing on the early '996. May still consider an '02. But this is a great car, and I wanted to share with those who maybe looking. Same pricing as the one above but with 19K miles, and a $7K aero kit. Not a scratch on it. No RMS. Just call me a wimp...sorry to all early 996ers. Here is the PM that I sent to a couple guys who asked. I hope someone picks up this car. Hi xxxx. I did decide to pass on the 996. Nothing about the car, I just did a gut check on the 996's in general, and decided that I couldn't handle either a preemptive IMS fix, warranty (at $1500/yr), or live with the risk of a catastrophic issue no matter how low the risk. Feel free to call me a wimp...but I had a woodruff key shear on an M5 I bought 3 mos after it passed PPI with flying colors, and it cost me $7k for a crankshaft, etc.. My wife was none too pleased. Here is the guys name. Jeffrey Head. He works for IBM as do I. Great guy, and the car is absolutely fabulous. 1 paint chip, one stone chip in the window, and one scuff in the door sill. THATS IT. No RMS leak. Original window sticker and records. Its the real deal. He is asking $29950 on eBay, but would take $28Kish (possibly a bit lower if he gets the right price on his next acquisition). Below is a link to my hobby site where I had him upload a bunch of detailed photos I asked for (mostly of the specific flaw areas). Car is located in AnnArbor MI. Jeff's email: [email removed] Please tell him that I sent you. I feel badly that I wimped out. Its a great car in my opinion, and I have no prior affiliation with the car or Jeff. He just noted my ibm email ID, and we connected from his eBay ad. http://s339.photobucket.com/albums/n...t=af547947.pbw Regards, John [phone removed]

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Another beautiful gargage queen. That car is freakin clean. John, Is it that fact that you don't want to shell out the $$$ for a warranty? As a fellow IBMer, ask him for a price break to cover a 3 year warranty. You really don't need to do the IMS bearing and a warranty. That is such a nice car. Not really worth $29K to me but it will be to someone.

It is a fantastic car. Really not a scratch on it. No chips even in the nose. 3Yr warranty is about $4500. Acquisition cost + warranty is over what I want to spend, and I guess that would alleviate my worries somewhat, but I am moving on...at least for now. SOMEBODY BUY IT...I FEEL AWFUL.

You can always buy an italian red car and change the timing chain all the time according to service intervals. Or be swapping out bushings.

low cost = more work and worries higher cost (should) = less of both IMO these garage queens are great, but if you plan on using the car you are gonna be really upset what it looks like in a year or 2 of road rash on the nose ya cant have both perfect and a driver......

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BEEN THERE....DONE THAT. WHICH IS WHY I AM SO NERVOUS ABOUT THE IMS. (79 FERRARI 308 gt4, 89 FERRARI MONDIAL T CAB, 87 FERRARI TESTAROSSA) John

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I beg to differ on the cable hood/trunk.. my MY 00 was built in 06/00 and has the cable hood/trunk. I'm not sure on the e-gas, I'd have to double check.

I just received this month's issue of Excellence Magazine and it has a lengthy article on the 996 IMS issue. It is part one of a series of articles on the IMS issue. The next part will deal with how to prevent it from becoming a problem. Great reading for current or future 996 owners.

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I have not inspected a MY 2000 myself, but according to the parts manuals they are motronic 7 which is e-gas. I had read (I think it was Streathers book), that when the accel cable was deleted they also got rid of the hood/trunk cables too. Sounds like that is not the case on yours though. I think I remember my MY 2000 Boxster S being electric hood/trunk too. But being a 6/00 you had a late one, almost a MY 01, not really a 99/00 transition car.

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That's just not right Mark....I haven't rec'd mine yet and I'm on the 'right' coast!!

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Can MFletch or anyone else post the contents of the article....my local Barnes and Noble only has May 2010....the one we want is June 2010. Very interested in what they have to say

anybody bargain shopping craigslist for a porsche is a moron......

I'd never buy a '99. Save a little more and get an MK2 996.

I have a MY00 with E-gas and cable trunk and hood releases.

After having a potential buyer choose to pass on the 996 I have for sale because of the IMS issue, I thought I'd do a little research. Sure enough, a discussion about my car! Thanks John for the nice words on the condition of my car. It is listed on ebay and in autotrader (links below). And to the comment someone made that it may not be worth $29K to them.....could not agree with you more....that is asking price ;-) I'm checking the mailbox daily for the next issue of Excellence to see what they say on the IMS....until I put this up for sale, I just had not given the IMS issue much thought since I bought the thing. It's been an absolute joy to own! http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Porsc...fCarsQ5fTrucks http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.js...standard=false

Porsche ownership has never been without risk. And yet I have seen this very conversation play out many times on this discussion board. "I'm worried about (fill in the blank)." "Can you guarantee (fill in the blank) won't happen to me?" "How can they charge that much to fix (fill in the blank)?" "How can such an expensive car (fill in the blank)?" Simple answer - These are not Hondas, or even BMWs. Porsches, like all real performance cars, are built to tight and exacting tolerances that leave little room for error in order to achieve their most important goal: Going really fast, really well. And to be honest, Porsche has a long history of not getting every part exactly right in pursuit of this goal. The history of expensive repairs to any one of dozens of Porsche models is far too lengthy to post. And if you factor in inflation, the damage caused by an exploding airbox in a '76 911, or a bad pinion bearing in a 968, was easily more than an RMS repair. Talk to guys who bought '90 or '91 964s and had the engine leak all over the place because Porsche figured the car did not need certain gaskets. This is not a hobby for the faint of heart, or the light of wallet. And, just because a car has depreciated significantly does not make it inexpensive - either to buy or to maintain (just ask 944 owners!). With the concerns you had, you probably made the right decision. I had the same information, and bought my beautiful and very fast car... my 4th Porsche. It was neither a rational nor economical choice. Eyes wide open and checkbook ready as needed.

I'm with Ralph. With the 996, Porsches went from having a lot of expensive repairs that were inevitable, to one really expensive repair that was merely possible. On the whole, it's a better deal.

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Me too!

I don't care what anyone says - I'm happy I bought one - can afford to fix it if the worst happens - life is too short, I just had a relative pass away Friday, three weeks after getting the bad news from her doctor. We have no "do over's". Buy it - drive it - do not wait.

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...hmmm, I wonder if that will be "get the LN/Flat6 upgrade" ? This is the second or third time Excellence has had a lengthy "discussion" of the IMS "issue" but I've hardlyr seen it mentioned more than in passing, in any other Porsche mag. Strange?