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YOUR RESEARCHStanding Start Advice
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Use every other time
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What I've done in my Boxster and more recently in my Turbo is when I've wanted to quickly accelerate away from a dead stop is to use nearly the same technique I use every other time to move the car away from a stop.
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What I've done in my Boxster and more recently in my Turbo is when I've wanted to quickly accelerate away from a dead stop is to use nearly the same technique I use every other time to move the car away from a stop.
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In my 01 Camaro Z28 and '96 Mustang GT (both with solid rear axles and manual transmissions) I just dumped the clutch and with the rear tires spinning used the throttle to modulate wheel spin for the best acceleration.
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There is NO recommended procedure for dropping the clutch at any RPM in a Porsche.
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On the 944, miatas, Honda Fits, several 3-series (e46 325, 330i ZHP, e36 M3) I've had the good graces of taking for a full-boat autocross run I would give it a good swift 3-4k roll-on.
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I havent test driven the new one with PDK but if it has launch control, wouldn't you think that the Porsche Engineers had figured out a way to launch it without straining the driveshaft and transmission?
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What I've done in my Boxster and more recently in my Turbo is when I've wanted to quickly accelerate away from a dead stop is to use nearly the same technique I use every other time to move the car away from a stop.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
What I've done in my Boxster and more recently in my Turbo is when I've wanted to quickly accelerate away from a dead stop is to use nearly the same technique I use every other time to move the car away from a stop.
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In my 01 Camaro Z28 and '96 Mustang GT (both with solid rear axles and manual transmissions) I just dumped the clutch and with the rear tires spinning used the throttle to modulate wheel spin for the best acceleration.
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I'm sure I'll be raked over the coals for this, but I'll be honest anyway.
As my username says I'm coming over from the bimmer world. I was out in the (new to me) car this past weekend and decided to do a standing start. Well, at autox's in the M I would tac it to 3K dump and run with controlled wheel spin. I tried this in the 911 and got all clutch slippage. I then asked the guy I bought the car from if he had any problem with the clutch slipping and he hadn't. I did go on to say that my approach to a standing start did not transfer over to the 911 due to the weight distribution and the huge sticky tires on the back.
What do you guys do?
What do I do? I don't, but aside from that, Car & Driver recently had a short article on how to launch a 911. They were using a 997, but I can't imagine that it is much different.
The steps were: deactive stability control, 5500 rpm, raise the clutch pedal to just below the engagement point, release clutch pedal sharply while flooring the throttle pedal, while enjoying the wheelspin and wheel hopping keep the throttle pedal floored, and be prepared to shift quickly when it hooks up.
Keeping your foot in it while its wheelhopping is a great way to break a halfshaft. Sounds like the magazine guys were not treating it like they owned the car.
OK, let's take the word launch out of the equation. When you want to go from 0-60 as quickly as you can what do you do? I understand this is not a drag car nor do I care to drag the car, but you can't tell me that the Porsche community does not accelerate quickly from a stand still.
That was my thought exactly, but not being from the community I'm having to evaluate what I'm told which in this case from the previous owner (I know there is a conflict of interest here). These are his comments:
"Hey Don, Word of advice. Never rev a 911 up to 3 grand and dump the clutch, especially one without a performance clutch or suspension upgrades. A 911 has 60% of its weight over those rather large , sticky 295�s. One of two things will happen, A: what you experienced, or B: if the tire were to start to spin, you would experience a VERY violent wheel hop which can cause all kinds of problems ranging from suspension joints to CV joint issues. That is a bone stock car and is meant to be driving like one. That clutch has never slipped once nor should it with only 28K on it."
I have no reason to believe he is dishonest. He is a good guy that owns a business that serves the Porsche community. Should the clutch slip before wheel hopping/spin? I didn't think so, but it is a 10 year old car w/ 28K miles, maybe the clutch material is a bit more slick from the lack of use.
There is probably nothing wrong with your clutch (at least until you did what you did). Porsche clutches are small in diameter, and the rear tires with all that rubber and all that weight on them were doing what they are supposed to do - sticking. So something had to give between the 300 HP engine and the sticky tires.
You asked for the best techique for accellerating from 0-60: Engage the clutch as if you were simply driving away briskly from a traffic light (which means the careful application of throttle and a small amount of clutch slip until the car is smoothly moving forward and the clutch is fully engaged)- then keep the accellerator on the floor... don't forget to shift before it hits the rev limiter. Do not powershift to the next gear.
There is NO recommended procedure for dropping the clutch at any RPM in a Porsche. And you cannot powershift the gears faster than the engine will overrev (and give you the Big Money shift ).
16 Porsches over 40 years of experience driving them "briskly" on the road and at the track, speaking to you.
With practice, you will learn to engage the clutch quickly without high RPM's or chattering clutches, or hopping suspension. Since there is "techinque" required, as with any skill, practice improves the skill.
Thanks. What's your opinion on the clutch slip? Understandable in that situation?
Assume you're an S3 pilot. I was EC130 aircrew with VQ-4 out of Pax...many years ago.
There is no logic to dropping the clutch in a car where the torque peak occurs at 4500 RPM (this is my theme today, I guess
) If you want to get away quick in this car, you have to slip the clutch considerably to keep the engine on the bubble. The difference in acceleration is dramatic versus just launching smoothly. Dramatic, and expensive.
Agree powershifting is pointless and destructive in this car.
What I've done in my Boxster and more recently in my Turbo is when I've wanted to quickly accelerate away from a dead stop is to use nearly the same technique I use every other time to move the car away from a stop.
Raise rpms a bit -- to say 1000 or so -- then quickly and smoothly release pedal until I feel clutch start to bite and continue to release pedal until clutch fullly engaged.
Once the clutch pedal is out all the way I nail the throttle pedal to the floorboards and if I'm in the Turbo hang on for dear life and try to shift up before the tach needle hits the rev limiter zone.
At least once I had to feather the throttle a bit as the Turbo was spinning thre tires some.
There may be a faster way but I'm not about to subject the car's drivetrain and clutch to what I would consider abuse for the sake of a faster take off that would only be detectable by a timing clock.
(The Boxster is on its original clutch and the car has over 225K miles on it so it is possible to get some pretty good take offs from stop and still get good clutch life. Course, I don't do this fast as I can launch every day.)
I used the same tech. in my 400hp 6.0l 6-speed 06 GTO which came with independent rear suspension.
In my 01 Camaro Z28 and '96 Mustang GT (both with solid rear axles and manual transmissions) I just dumped the clutch and with the rear tires spinning used the throttle to modulate wheel spin for the best acceleration.
Sincerely,
Macster.
I'd say clutch slip... If I dumped the clutch on my C4 at 3,000 RPM, it would likely stall the engine.
I'd think you'd want to be around 5 or 6k if you wanted to do a nice smoky burn-out.
Has anyone tried to rev the car up the RPM and let the inertia of the engine carry you through, meaning rev high, let off throttle until engagement, then punch the throttle? That's what I do in the '87 to launch it.
I know the inertia (rotating mass) of these engines is small but I rather dump the clutch at 6-7k while backing off the throttle until full engagement than dump at 3K and floor the throttle before the clutch is fully engaged.
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Understandable given the situation. Just don't let it happen again. LOL!
AWCS USN Ret - 20Y 6M 0D (but I wasn't counting).
P3C (over 4,000 hours), S-3A (over 2,000 hours), CV (Saratoga, Kennedy), CVN (Eisenhower). Triple-Centurian on the Saratoga, Centurian on the Kennedy and the Ike.
Did my first P3C student training in VP-30 when it was still in Pax cir. 1970
Ret 1990. Fly Navy!
Re-read the thread. It has nothing to do with "smokey burn outs" It has to do with launching the car as quickly as possible, which in Autox, is essential to a good run. The process I used in the M was actually recommended in an autox school and produced very little wheel spin and maximum acceleration.
I agree with previous posts -- the best way I've found to get the car moving (fast or otherwise) is by getting the clutch out normally, then pinning the throttle.
Last month at an autocross I was pretty amped up at the start line and give it
too much gas
before the clutch was fully engaged --- I launched like a mad man, but I think I took 25% of the clutch life with me.
FWIW - I think all of those magazine 0-60 times were made really abusing the clutch by people who (obviously) did not OWN the car. Is it possible to get a 4.9 0-60 in a 4S... probably. But Im afraid of what would happen to the drivetrain to get it.
In an autocross start, I usually do a 2500 RPM start, quickly releasing the clutch (not dumping it) and rolling quickly on to throttle. It's a fine line and it can get me going nicely but sometimes I bog. Not usually a big deal on a shorter course but if it's a good distance between the first turn it can hurt you a bit. I have no clutch slip when I do this. I have noticed a bit more if I launch harder and am too fast off the clutch.
I've often wondered if there is a clutch delay valve like the bimmers have that helps slip clutch and pad novice drivers from doing as much damage in our 996's? While my clutch is not really grabby, I've not noticed a lot of slip like you describe.
What is the mileage on your car?
On street tires the "usual" autox launch is impossible. Massive, terrible wheel hop. On the 944, miatas, Honda Fits, several 3-series (e46 325, 330i ZHP, e36 M3) I've had the good graces of taking for a full-boat autocross run I would give it a good swift 3-4k roll-on. Just enough tire spin to get some heat in the tires and a good launch.
I have broken an R&P in the 944 but I had a spare transmission ready to go in and I was testing the outer limits of how the car could be launched. This was a 5k launch on street tires on a VERY grippy surface with LSD. Too much grip and the wheel hop blew up the R&P.
At an autox you usually have 2 benefits for smoothing your launch. 1 the starting line has lots of loose grit from other cars launching and this will aid wheelspin a bit. 2 cold R-compound tires will usually spin instead of wheel-hop.
I've only taken the 996 to one autocross but while I am still on street tires I am going to avoid trying to induce wheel spin on the launch. The clutch doesn't slip but the wheel hop I have unfortunately generated once or twice really scared me.
Doesn't the new 997 PDK come with Launch Control? I havent test driven the new one with PDK but if it has launch control, wouldn't you think that the Porsche Engineers had figured out a way to launch it without straining the driveshaft and transmission?
But I"m with you guys, I"m not sure I would try manual launching a 996......just to get a few hundredths of a second that is only going to be recognizable by a timeclock.....
