996.1 Buying Questions

Hi all, I'm looking at a 996 with a production date of August 98 and I wanted to run a few questions by everyone. For what it's worth, the Carfax has come back clean. How many miles are a concern? Opposite of other vehicles, I've read that lower mileage on these vehicles is not quite as desirable. This one has about 150k on the odometer How many prior owners seems to be too many? At one point, these cars dipped in value, so I'm sure they changed hands quite a bit This example has 6 prior owners There's no comment on the IMS, but these have the dual-row which is less susceptible to issues - but that doesn't mean it won't happen. There is an oil analysis form the last six months that shows no initial concerns Price is right around ~20K Before I arrange a PPI, is there anything that I should be overly concerned with? And if not, does anyone have a shop around Fort Worth they could recommend? Thanks, James

Before you do a PPI, make a video of the back end of the car on startup so we can hear if there are any obvious issues. Pictures of the engine bay, open frunk and anything else will help get better info before you spend on the PPI. If you have a friend who knows these cars, even better. Is this being sold by a Porsche dealer, private party or consignment?

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Thank you! It's a private party, I'll request a start-up video.

These cars are great but at this stage in their lives each car is an individual so don�t trust generalizations about the early 996s. I too agree that you seek out a current owner an enthusiast for the model to do a walk around and test drive for you. I have worked with a bunch of people finding the �right� 996 keep in mind if you go forward with a complete PPI it is up to you to use a shop that also knows our cars and direct that shop as what your concerns are so they focus on that agenda. As a current owner of five 1999 996s the �right� car is an absolute blast. Good luck with your search and reach out if I can be of any help Rich

Absolutely get a Porsche specialist to do a PPI for you. Number of owners wasn't much of a concern with me (my 2000 had 5 or 6 previous owners). At the very least, the PPI will show the work you may need to do on the car which can influence the pricing. At 27-28 years old, you may need to replace suspension bits as well if they are still original.

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Well, it all depends who you ask and who you believe. Go on any sales auction site, look at any 996 models. The lower the miles the more $$$$$$ they go for, without a doubt. The masses of buyers know something... IMHO a 10-30,000 mile car (cost goes up dynamically with mileage) will always get top dollar in a auction or most any type sales compared to a high miles car. One Reason for this is simple. Many in the know, realize most all m96 engines by 100,000 miles will need a rebuild, At the least they have way out of spec cylinder structure. Out of round over .0035" is the spec says LN. And that spec is very very high for most all other engine types that go with a max .002" OOR. What this means is piston slap, a propensity for bore score, and low cylinder sealing in many cases. The very low mile 996 probably hasn't had the water pump fail yet, shedding impeller pieces into the heads small coolant passageways causing hot spots/cracked heads. Then even if you get very lucky and get a somewhat acceptable engine, you probably need $10,000 of differed engine only maintenance right away. Then go to the full refresh suspension/tires/brakes/wheels/etc, for another 10k. With very low mileage car you might get away with spending a lot less on differed maintenance. A low low mile car, kept in the garage, and exercised a little every week, maintained very well, and a cherished cared for example is the best 996 car you could ever buy. As long as the ppi checks out. The suspension of the low mile car will not have worn out parts like the 150,000 mile car, not even close. If the very low mile garage kept car was in a mild not excessively dry climate even the rubber parts might be in ok condition. The paint and body on the low mile garage Queen will probably be much better than the average 150,000mile 996 example. Same goes for the interior and its parts like door lock actuators, window regulators, immobilizers, carpet, seats, etc... Ya, I've heard the "garage queen 10k miles no good" claim many times. Usually from those that can't afford/justify/want the low mile example. I own 2, 996 with around 35k miles on each. The 996.1 was a 1 owner garage queen and its pretty mint, drives like new, a 25 year old car with mostly original parts other than the needed upgrades... Now this is just a generalization as every 996 example is different. Do your due diligence as always... don't get the 10,000 mile car owned by some filthy rich dude that could care less and decides on a drunken night to drive it down Daytona beach at the water line. Don't even ask me about that. Suppose if one wants a beater 996 daily driver type, the high miles low price example that still drives good might be perfect to drive till it won't go any further. Or a good car to start a total refresh on if the price is right.. JMHO

150k miles really. Run.

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^Ignore this silly, tired take. ^ignore this advice at your own peril. 👍 Buy the best example you can afford/find, budget in $10k of maintenance (deferred or age related) and you should be off to a good start with a brilliant car. Good luck!

Thank you all for the responses thus far! I've requested video of a cold-start and will upload once available. I appreciate everyone taking the time to give some pointers.

150,000 miles is a lot. Double row IMS does fail. I have seen it. PPI is a requirement. I would pass on this car, for me. Go from there.

Every car will be different. I have seen 100k mile cars with 8 owners that blow 40k mile cars away with 1 owner. Go look at a few in person and you will see what we're talking about! --Aaron

Bumping. A similar car has come up for sale. Here's the cold start video of that one 99 Cold Start

https://rennlist.com/forums/market/1501494

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OMG ..he didnt immediatly drive off...he just sat there in idling bliss.

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I saw that one on the Marketplace forum! It's a beautiful car. I'm looking for a coupe.

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lol yeah it sounds so nice, but it was a bit hard for me to hear anything beyond the exhaust.

So I decided to sit tight and keep looking. I've come across a low mileage 99 and just got the inspection report back, would you all mind taking a peek? About 35k miles. PPI

Far too much deferred maintenance for me identified in the PPI. Pass.

Thank you!

Hmmm, idk, wouldn't discount this car by what I see in your above ppi. Worries me more about whats not on the ppi. No engine stuff, no scope info/etc. How many miles are on this car...? Alarm stuff is almost always a problem on old 996 cars, if the car starts and drives good thats All the above ppi stuff is very normal for a 27 year old 996. Some might be old ghost codes. Some maybe not. Fault code P1602 on a Porsche 996 typically indicates " supply voltage 30" usually means the DME/ECU lost power. usually caused by a disconnected, weak, or dead battery. It is often a "ghost" code from maintenance, not a critical failure. Tires, brakes, etc, normal wear items easy to fix and nice to have new in your old car.... Lots of simple fix stuff listed like reverse light switch replacement. Takes about 15 minutes and switch cost $10 at pelican parts. Takes longer to jack up the car then change the easy to access R switch. Or interior light lens, etc... Or side maker lights cost $75 pair Sunroof repair might get more expensive complicated, or not. Could be a fuse..? or motor..? Seats adjuster problem, could be an easy fix, or not. airbag fault code could be simple as an un-pluged bag or a defective bag, or an already used bag, or a missing bag. have to dive a little deeper to figure that out. A door latch is not that dificult to install and aftermarket ones work well and not that expensive. What I'm getting at is 75% + of your above ppi, a handy mechanically inclined owner can fix themself. And although it does add up, none of it is an expensive repair not even close to an engine or tanny rebuild. Thats what you need to find out, engine mechanical ppi stuff is the expensive stuff most owners can't fix themselves and creates a strong no buy for most. To find a low mile 27 yo 996 car with original paint except on the hood is a great find imho. Especially if engine tranny checks out

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Thank you! There's 36K on it, off 4 prior owners. Which is quite low, it seems like a lot of little things that could have been fixed. The sunroof isn't a huge deal, I can live with that not working and the radio, I'll just replace with a used Becker or continental. I was hoping to find a shop that was doing that, but being remote it was somewhat tough to align. I figure the water pump, and AOS need to be changed at a minimum. The car has been listed since late February, and today the dealer told me they had a showing lined up for tomorrow, convenient lol. There should be some wiggle room. Thanks for your input.

I wonder what directives were given about this PPI? Absolutely nothing about the engine/transmission/cooling system. You'd think a mention about the condition of the engine mounts would be news worthy. Or condition of brakes and suspension? Without service records you need to assume the worst or get a real PPI.

Thanks! I have a few service visits from the Porsche dealership in Houston within the last few thousand miles. I plan on calling them to see if they'll give me any information on the vehicle. Update: All services done within the last 3k miles, but close to 6 years Service 1: May 2018 - Replace IMS Service 2: Sept 2018 - CEL regarding Cam Adjusters; did a valve cleaning. Coolant leak on return hose - clamp replaced Service 3: Nov 2018 - CEL regarding Cam Adjusters; replaced chain tensioner and adjusters, flushed oil to remove plastic bits, changed oil filter 2x Seems like some issues related to low mileage driving.

Superb sleuthing! I did a carfax report on my car and it allowed me to call places that had worked on it. The Indy shops were happy to email me work invoices sans customer info to fill in service history gaps.

The other threads are banging on and on right now about cam deviation so that�s really good news it�s been addressed recently. Seems like it MAY be on the correct foot mechanically. For 36k miles the aesthetic stuff that is in the PPI is a lot of oddball wear and tear and broken stuff though. Mirror covers, broken dome lights etc. My car has those foibles and I�ve been cleaning them up but it�s at 193k miles is just worn out. Most dailies don�t have those sorts of problems at 36k, so it seems like a lack of respect. Those dealer service items are $$ though. Recent IMS and cam service is pretty slick. Add a water pump and enjoy it a few years. Regarding miles, I think it�s a preference and use question. If you are going to shows and get ice cream with it, or keep it as part of a larger collection, maybe low mileage is of value, as a point of pride and in how the vehicle expresses itself. If you plan to commute in it or wring it out, low miles/pristine condition is something you might CONSUME in your ownership. Perhaps neither apply if you are keeping it forever. I bought a high mileage car with some recent major service that I thought would be a runner, and allowed me fair entry into these cars� my use won�t help mileage or paint condition, it would have been of limited benefit to pay a premium for either. Current condition is serviceable, and if its breaks I�ll make it better. So when you ask what the ideal mileage to purchase is, what you need to ask yourself is� what am I buying this thing for? If resale is at all a factor - who do you think you might sell it to? What impact does your use have on that equation? If you want to meet your use for lowest cost, or have the best/easiest ownership experience, or just enjoy playing the game buying/selling/modding - you�ll arrive at different answers.

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Thank you for the detailed response. Yeah it felt strange for such low mileage, but overall it seems minor. I asked the dealer about a few of the bigger items and we'll see what they say. I like the fact this car is completely stock, and the mileage is low. I don't plan on selling, at least not any time soon. The 996 was my poster car, and although I'm not jonesing for a turbo anymore, it's still the one I've aspired to get. I also didn't plan on selling my other performance oriented vehicles, so who knows. It's hopefully something my girls will be able to enjoy with me.

What you want to pay (up front and all in), what you are willing to do yourself, and what you want the car for (dependable daily, a fourth car for kicks, etc...) all play into this. A 1999 is 27 years old at this point. You can expect every trim piece to be perfect and all maintenance to be current, but that comes with either exceptionally good luck or a much higher price tag. But if you are comfortable accepting a 27 year old car needs some TLC annually as rubber/plastic deteriorate, then you'll be fine. I'm only commenting because so many of these threads are filled with comments from people with unrealistic expectations. These days, a 6 speed couple in decent cosmetic shape, somewhere around 100k miles +/- 20k miles is a $30k car. It can be $20k up front in need of IMS/Clutch/other stuff, or it can be $30k up front with most things recently done (to me, an IMS from 2018 is an IMS nearing the end of its service life). That said, for $30k, it's a hell of a lot of car. Go for it!

Thank you Dan. Its listed in the low 40s with 36k miles, which is right around my threshold. I'm trying to work a little bit off and we'll see from there. Thanks again to everyone for all the opinions!

Gulfer says 'lack of respect'. I'd go along with that, and add likely rode hard and put away wet', too. My 70,000 mile 996 coupe has none of those things mentioned in your PPI. I can't comment on the price, but apparently my 1 owner car is worth more than I thought. Low $40,000 is the asking?

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Sorry for the delay. Yeah, I picked it up for $39. Based on the cam work and IMS being done a few thousand miles ago, I figured I'm willing to roll the dice. Most of the stuff on the list I've already picked up the parts and begin fixing the small things. I need to get it registered. Once I do that, check the AOS go from there. I'll start a new thread so we can track progress. Hopefully it doesn't bite me in the butt!

Congrats on your purchase! I've been weighing similar questions of late while looking at 996s (and 987s). Thanks everyone for the discussion, as it is helping me decide on which route to take.