Used market

Friends are looking for an early model ( 2000-2004) 996... about 1.5 years ago, I saw many in mid $20K range.. I see less inventory and higher pricing today. I apologize if this has been discussed as I haven't been here in a while. Has used market picked up some?

I purchased a 2002 Porsche 996 (C4S) last month and saw many in the $30K price range to choose from in relatively good condition. When I viewed others in the mid to high $20K price range they seemed to need allot more work than I was willing to put into it. With that being said, I'm sure there is a car out there in your price range. With the recession, many Porsche owners are letting their cars go and it's a good time to buy. Do your routine searches on Autotrader, Craigslist and E-Bay and you'll find good inventory of 996's across the nation. You just have to work with your budget and find the best car for your budget.

Well, that's what I'm saying. I bought my my 02 with 45,000 miles for $28,000 year and half ago, granted yours is C4S. Fast forward, now it's in $30K range.. I would have expected mid to low $20K range.

Yes I've noticed recently the high asking costs of 996s. I bought mine in 2009 with 13k miles on it for $34k. It seemed a bit high at the time, but the condition was simply near perfect and CPO. But now I don't feel so bad with what the market is doing. It's very surprising that these are the asking prices at dealers anywhere from $25k to $52k for the 40th anniversary: http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/usa/...AKHDAUU&pnr_=1

Economics 101 Supply - Demand Two years ago the country was in a very deep recession, even capable buyers were frozen in their tracks not wanting to make any big purchases, and lots of folks got caught out on debt vs employment. Many Porsche owners are "marginal players" financially and there was a huge need to sell luxury items (Porsches). Fast forward to today, the job market fears have eased for those who remained employed during the last 4 years, and thus the purse strings have opened up a bit to address pent-up demand. Additionally, the used car market is flourishing as new car sales struggle to return to former levels because, although they are willing to spend to buy a Porsche, they are not necessarily as willing to buy a NEW Porsche. Easier to get a loan on a $30K car than a $100K car. Two years ago the banks weren't loaning money to anyone for anything. Some folks have now downsized their dreams for a new Porsche to simply finding a nice used one. This change in buyer trends is not limited to Porsche. I believe that those able to keep their Porsche during the recession, wanting to sell but not wanting to give their car away to someone, chose to simply wait it out to get a better price. And, I believe, many who still have them prefer to hold them rather than trade them up and take a large hit on resale. Supply - Demand Need vs Want

The people on the forums often seem to undervalue their cars. I think pricing has definitely leveled out for the 996 for the time being. I'm seeing the same thing in the Lotus market--Elise and Exige models are $2-5k more today than they were a year or two ago.

I'm not complaining actually...I was quite pleasantly surprised.

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I'm glad you mentioned that, as I was not sure if it was a complaint or good for you. As a fellow 996 owner, I'm very glad that they are holding or in some cases increasing in value.

And don't confuse asking price with selling price.

I don't think prices are going up on the 996's but maybe they have leveled a little. However, I have noticed prices declining on turbs and even some early 997's. Look around there are some deals on those.

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This is absolutely spot on. Regardless of asking vs selling price, a sweeping trend of asking prices marching steadily higher implies by definition that either selling prices are climbing as well, or people simply *dont need to fire sale* The used car market is absolutely flourishing and that is the reason behind this. It is a *psychological* shift in the market and also a *very real economic one* A DODGE dealer today told me that over the past 4 years, he has seen sales go from 70/30 new/used to the REVERSE. People used to extend themselves well beyond where they are willing to today. Yesterdays $100k C2 buyer is todays frugal used buyer. But sales of the new cars arent down, AFAIK (BMW had a record US quarter), because other markets are there to pick them up and, I dont know, maybe the elites who vacuumed up the middle class wealth buy matching P Cars for their dogs It will be interesting to see when the used market "levels".

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Sure, that makes sense to me. Those are more expensive vehicles...there's always going to be a "floor" for pricing on a solid, used Porsche 911. Seems to be somewhere in the $15-20k range right now.

Used car prices are UP not down! if you goto the auction the past year and a half it has been ridiculous, not even worth going...the recession hurt the NEW CAR market more than the Used car market, all the BIG DEALERS are doing is going to auctions and buying and bumping UP THE PRICE OF USED CARS because that is their main market now as new car sales are totally down

The current Excellence issue reports a continued down trend in 996.. but their data is most likely 6 months out due to sale data collection timing & publishing time-lines. So it is likely we have leveled out. And yes the dealers are looking for cars. Every issue of our PCA club magazine has had a full page ad from Parkplace Motors - in the last 4 months - Asking to used Porsches. They used to say they had 50 Porsches in stock at all times. This is a specialty Consignment dealer that focuses on high end Sport & Exotic cars.... so Demand is up.

I think there are still great deals to be had for the 996. I believe prices have leveled of but Excellence showed interesting numbers showing it coming down 99 coupe low end was showing $14k ????

Its funny excellence does shown this but go to the market place sand the prices are higher http://www.excellence-mag.com/classi...ge=1&sort=year I have seen a levelling of price and it looksmlike for good ones maybe even higher.

99 coupe low end was showing $14k ???? You can buy a low end one for about $13k if you are a decent negotiator BUT you will likely have to put money into it pretty quick I imagine. Go to cars.com, autotrader, etc... and there are several 996's with about 125k-150k miles with ASKING prices under $15k. In fact the two cheapest ones currently on cars.com (excluding the crashed one) are MY 2000! Likewise carmax has a 2005 for $39k. I am not yet sold on the used Porsche prices being up theory.

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Sure there are low prices for high mileage beaters, but for very good condition, lower mileage 996s, asking prices are confirmed to be up. Just look at the 3 pages here: http://ucl.porsche.de/ucl/plsql/usa/...AVU0JR3&pnr_=2 Didn't see the 2005 on Carmax, but there is a 2004 C4S listed at $39k. Those that take care of theirs and keep mileage to a reasonable amount are in good shape right now. Who knows what the future holds.

I'm about to buy a 99 C2 Cabrio with 68k miles for 22k. Seems a bit high but really couldn't find anything cheaper unless it had a bunch more miles and was a coupe.

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Honestly, man, if you've found a good car and it's what you want, go for it. Contrary to some of the thoughts in this thread, that's NOT a bad price for the right car. Good luck!

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I agree. If it's the "right car" with good records, seems clean, etc... than pull the trigger. You can buy a cab with 68k miles for $18k but not necessarily a nice one! Maintenance records and what may be needed soon are key issues. If a 60k mile service costs $1k for example was it done or not!? Just an example. Ton more examples like that. My only point is people should not jump just because they don't see the exact car they want today. More cars on the market every day!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2004-...b66#vi-content Here is my car for sale that I just sold on 6/28/11.

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With all this talk of values and short supply, what's a clean 03 Coupe 6speed with 43K on the clock that needs nothing and has full service history worth? I've got no beef with buying a new 997.2!

tiz the season

I pay close attention to used market prices for 964s, 996s, 997s and GT3s, and also a few other brands (Mini Cooper, BMW, Land Rover), and the definite trend for used car pricing is UP! The Japan earthquake contributed to this as parts are in short supply for new cars (driving people to used)... I also see the Asian markets taking allocations away from the US... I don't subscribe to the "but what are they selling for" argument because the macro selling trends will follow the macro asking trends.... I believe that a rise or fall in "asking" prices mirror the "selling prices" in the market. And to that point - I think Excellence (though an amazing magazine) is smoking something with their periodic valuations.... They don't mirror Mannheim, and they certainly don't mirror personal experience. I purchased a 997.1 S Cab CPO from a dealer in January '11, and had spent Nov-Jan on the phone haggling for the right deal from dealers across the US. Since then, ASKING prices for 997s at the dealerships have GONE UP, and in most cases by $5-10K (model year to model year comparison with similar features). Last October, I tried to sell a Mini Cooper S and an LR3 to Carmax, and was offered decent trade-in prices. I chose to not sell either, and sold the Mini Cooper S to Carmax in March '11 with 10K MORE miles (78k miles) and got the same offer price as in October 2010. Wow! I then unloaded the Land Rover LR3 (86k miles) in May '11 to Carmax and - get this - got $2K MORE than my offer in October, having put another 15k on the odometer since then! Now on the new car buying side, we just purchased a Land Rover LR4 and ran into availabily problems. No one seems to have cars on the lot! I was able to get $500 off sticker on a limited edition LR4, but that was after contacting all 39 Land Rover dealers west of the Rockies over a three day weekend. And that was the best deal that I could negotiate for a same day sale! Of note: several Land Rover dealers told me that Tata of India (new Land Rover owner) was sending allocations to China/Asia rather than the US, as they tried to serve the growth markets... Interesting data point... I also hear through the press that this used car value trend is expected to end this fall as the new car supplies catch up with demand... We shall see how that plays out.... -B

Seems this may be an appropriate area to ask (as a new member and one looking to buy my first 911 997?), with all the discussion about PPI and Overrevs and DME etc. to consider when looking to purchase used...it can get daunting. What are the implications regarding overrevs etc. in a Tiptronic? Certainly using the manual shifting may be some concern but to the same extent as manual? It's a "Brave new World" or should I say you have to "Brave" this "new World" out there when acquiring a used Porsche! Look forward to learning much more from y'all! Thanks

I've asked a friend of mine who is a dealer but also a big air cooled guy and he said the prices on 996es have come up over the past 18mos or so. While I wish I would have bought one before they came up, I'm hoping that they'll continue along this trend or at least maintain the current levels even longer! -Eric

Its like the stock market... NOT!!!

I would also guess that as 996's have become known as great bargains more folks (like myself) saw opportunities, making prices stabilize or go up with increased buyer interest. I think something similar happened when used Caymans began appearing at relatively low prices and all the track nuts starting grabbing them with prices rising afterwards. Anyway, I looked at many cars and gladly paid over going "market" prices for my C4 with new IMS bearing, clutch and RMS from very respected exotic specialty shop and still feel I got a steal on it.

Overall used car prices are up approximately %20 - %30 ... http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...781060592.html http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011...for-consumers/ http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/24/business/24auto.html LV