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YOUR RESEARCHFirst Oil Report Card
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Replace engine
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Engine was replaced at 30k and it has 94k on it now (I bought it with 92.4k on the chassis).
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Suggestion · Original poster
And I will drop the sump on the next oil change to check for Bits And Pieces to help keep the silicon levels down from using new sealant on sump cover.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
i changed oil and used DT40, hoping to prolong the inevitable for as long as possible while i save for a rebuild.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
i changed oil and used DT40, hoping to prolong the inevitable for as long as possible while i save for a rebuild.
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Check bits and pieces
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Suggestion · Original poster
And I will drop the sump on the next oil change to check for Bits And Pieces to help keep the silicon levels down from using new sealant on sump cover.
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For your viewing enjoyment I give you my first oil sample report from Speed Diagnostics. I�ve owned this 2001 996.1 with 86k miles for almost 2 months, I have no idea what oil brand or viscosity thats currently being used. This weekend its getting filled with DT40 and I�m also dropping the sump cover and scooping the bores. There�s no smoking during start up, idling or driving. There�s a ticking sound present once the engine is warmed up, especially after highway driving. The drivers side exhaust tip has more soot present than the passenger side, with no noticeable oil build up on bumper.
The silicon is on the higher side but iron is still within range (and typically both will go up with bore wear), but like you said, it's mystery oil and this is the first sample. Could be Mobil 1 judging by the lack of Moly. To get a better read on things via UOA, I'd scope the cylinders first via spark plug holes. Yeah yeah yeah I know it's not the preferred way but it will still show scoring if it's there. The reason for this is that pulling the sump will spike your silicon levels again when you seal it back up and give you a false positive on the next UOA. Also, replace the air filter if you haven't yet. Could be another cause of the higher silicon levels. Drive 3k miles and do another sample.
It came with a k&n filter/intake installed, the filter was filthy, i dont believe this 911 was maintained very well in that aspect, so I was hoping that might have something to do with the elevated silicon level since none of the other corresponding levels were elevated as you mentioned, and if you think its best to not drop the sump right now I will attempt scoping through spark plug holes instead. Prob should replace plugs to i guess, should I go with OEM replacement on those? Thanks for your help
Yeah that filter could very well be the cause. I'd want to minimize the number of variables so that's the main reason for not dropping the sump just yet. Check out the video on bore scoring from Slakker. It's good info. Dropping the sump is a great way to see the scoring at the bottom where it starts, but it also doesn't abruptly end where you won't be able to see anything from the top, so I'd start there. Also, keep in mind that the scope will magnify what you see too. Let us know what you see from the top, replace that filter with OEM one, retest after 3k miles and let's see what the report shows again.
Ya dump the cold air intake, get the oem air box or a 997 air box.
With lokasil cylinders, that could possibly be the oils higher silicone content.? So scoping the cylinders on a new to you m96 car is a informative procedure.
Would NOT go thru the sump for a scope unless you have a full size/height lift where you can stand under the car while getting oil dripped all over you and the camera. Probably should have your safety glasses on unless you have dry eyes. As this operation will take some time to do directly under the dripping sump. Full height stand under lift also makes it easier to turn the crank and twist and bend while fishing the camera thru convoluted wrist pin assembly holes and cylinders while while getting dripped on doing one of the most ridiculous unneeded operations I've ever heard come out of the mouth of a professional engine builder...
Great idea to take off the sump plate if you're doing an oil change, its only 13 small bolts that are easy to get at on your back.
Checking in sump for specific debris and telltale green o-ring bits can be very informative. Looking in the sump will tell you a lot about engine condition and you can clean the oil pump pick up screen and swirl port tubes while you're in there. Or better yet change them to the better 997 tubes for $50.
Do your self a favor and only scope from the spark plug holes, that will give you all the m96 cylinder condition info one could ever need no matter what others have said, posted and or published. Scoping from the sump on your back is a evil joke being played on us... I tried it once, joke was on me.
jmho
lol, I was going to say before I finish reading your entire post that it sounds like you�ve had that kind of fun before. So I will definitely be going through spark plug holes for now. And I will drop the sump on the next oil change to check for Bits And Pieces to help keep the silicon levels down from using new sealant on sump cover. Thanks again for your help.
With UIDS no need to worry about high silicone after a Sump Drop ....It uses an O-ring to seal it and not messy silicone , just one of the design features that were incorporated into it ..
The reason the K&N filters will typically allow more silicone/dirt to show in the UOA is that they are higher flowing/less restrictive ( per inch of surface area ), meaning more dirt will get through ( this is actually on purpose ) .....Contrary to popular belief, an old " dirty" air filter will filter out more silicone /dirt particles than a brand new one....... If you want the most efficient silicone/dirt filtering, leave your air filter in untill it starts to lose horsepower/mass air flow ( MAF ) then change it.... The dirtier it gets, the better it filters, but is more restrictive / lose of power ..
PS :: you can also Bore Scope cyl 4-5-6 from the wrist pin hole without removing spark plugs or even draining oil ...
If you want to use a non silicone case sealer, ThreeBond is some of the best stuff I've ever used and continue to use. Both my 996 have it on their sump plate and like they should,,, don't even seep a drop... Have also used silicone permatex grey with same results. To be honest, many great sealers on the market. Preparation is everything when it comes to sealing up engine parts. Did get a sump o-ring from PT3 just haven't machined the oring grove in my spare plate yet, its on my to do list...
Used all the below at one time or another. ThreeBond 1100 series is non silicone oem case sealant for many manufactures. I like it. my favorite case sealer. Its nice because it doesn't peel/fall off into cases as long as you don't over do it... Currently have half tube of the HondaBond version in my shop.
Below is a quote is from Three Bond about its 1100 series non silicone available products...
"ThreeBond 1184: The direct equivalent to Hondabond 4, Yamabond 4, and older Kawasaki Bond 4. This is a semi-drying, latex/acetone-based liquid gasket that stays pliable and will not break off to clog oil passages."
They aren't good on any vehicle. Every car I have taken apart that wasrunning one of these has a thin layer of very fine grit on the inside of the intake pipes. Is it worth it for 0.5hp gain?
The difference is not the Brands ( K&N ,Fabspeed or Evoms ect ) ,,..or whether open or closed ,, it is the filtering material...Ie. Oil Soaked Cotton Gause vs Paper Celulose ..
Oil Soaked Cotton Gause will outflow Paper Celulose in a square inch per square inch comparison, but the Paper Celulose will out filter the Oil Soaked Cotton Gause ... ( also Oil Soaked Cotton Gause has been known to fail MAF Sensors if they are over-oiled)
You can get Dry Paper Celulose Filters that fit on the open air designs like K&N Fabspeed Evoms. ect .....
But Dry Paper Celulose needs a larger surface area to keep from being restrictive when they get a bit dirty... That's why the OEM Porsche filter is SO LARGE .... It can go a very long time and filter very well before it starts to lose horsepower/mass air flow ( MAF )
One thing to note while we are on the air filtering subject, is that marine engine don't even use an air filer at all .....Outboards have nothing at all and inboards just have a spark arrestor to keep from back-fires ...no air filtration because they operate in open waters where dirt is not abundant.... and they last forever ....
So for best air filtration / lowest silicone on UOA, use the very large OEM air filter but don't change it but every 30k miles or if there is a drop in MAF value at WOT .............
Yeah, back in the day, everybody thought a tune and KN or BMC air filter was the ticket for more HP. They arent.
However, the tune does get you better throttle response and the KN/BMC air filters are a pita without any benefit.
I love dropping in a new paper oem airfilter versus having to clean up the BMC filter. Sure seems to breath a hell of alot better.
But the aftermarket industry did a great job advertising performance enhancements that really didn't exist.
Yeah most of the Paper filers of the old days were small and the Oiled Cotton Gause ( K&N ) would definatly gain some horsepower..
But the 996 Paper filer is LARGE ,so even after tens of thousands of miles it will not loose any horsepower, and will actually filter better than new...lol
In your original post you had mentioned ticking on Bank 2. From what I've read, this is the beginning of the start of bore scoring. Mine has a minor ticking on start and goes away after coming to temp, but I've been told it's showing the signs.
My brother had it 10 years, only used Mobil 1, put 10k on it and has 0 documentation on the frequency. Engine was replaced at 30k and it has 94k on it now (I bought it with 92.4k on the chassis). Documentation prior to his ownership is all of 6 pages, and he only has 3 additional pages). I'm the 6th owner. At least it has the IMS replacement has been documented
I'm using Liqui-Moly and will use the 5k or 6 month rule and plan to rebuild the engine next year anyway. DTI oil is overkill at this point in time until it's been rebuilt.
I've added 10 pages of documentation since I bought it. I'm not planning on reselling it. I'll sell it to my son for $1 and my grandson has put dibs on it already
Good strategy. For sure, every engine will eventually need a rebuild. Just the way mechanical science works. But in the meantime, every part you refresh now will be one less item you will need to replace when you are ready for a rebuild. High quality oil will certainly help in prolonging engine life.
Take a look at Lake's video on it from about a month ago. Not certain i would put it anywhere near my M96. Imho. It makes more sense to run DT/DI50 oil or equivalent.
Since Driven oils are not available in Europe, Mobil1 FS x2 5w50 is a great choice. I bundle it with a bottle of Ceratec. For 5000km (3k miles). Better formula than the older x1...
Update, I’m happy to say that the very audible ticking I had before my oil change, most likely caused by the scoring i see in #6, has almost completely gone away after using the Driven 5w40, even after some very spirited highway driving
Now lets see how long it stays that way.
IMO, that pic of cyl #6 shows maybe (heavy) scuffing or maybe just light scuffing with shadows making it look like deep scoring. If you didn't use any oil like you said in 2000 miles don't worry about that pic of 6. Slakker went into detailed explanations of how bore pics don't necessarily show the true condition of cylinders at all...
With a pin hole camera that has a light built in, the created shadows can be very deceiving and give deceptive pics that wouldn't even catch your finger nail in those shadows or scuffs. If it was bad scoring you'd be using/burning at least some oil in 2000 miles. And your blow-by test would have worse results imo...
Chasing annoying ticks on a m96 is frustrating and maybe counter productive unless very pronounced and constant once warm... Anyhow, imho, its doubtful anything about the pic of #6 is causing ticks. And with original imsb in unknown condition, and no idea whats in sump, you've got a lot more to worry about than intermittent ticks.
1) Like many have said before, clean engine spotlessly, find and fix all leaks.
2) I would have done this before your recent oil change. Dump oil, drop sump and look for any debris from a imsb (starting to) coming apart. If all looks good in sump do imsb replacement.. Save your new DT40 oil if ya want and filter thru a paint filter or a fine mesh funnel screen before reuse. Or better yet dump in some x 50 oil like Porsche recommends for the most protection on a street m96.
3) Then install the UAOS when you're ready...
The above is what I'd do if car was mine...
jmo
Thanks for the reply allcool,
the measured mileage was 1000, with a loss of oil measuring around .25 qt maybe a little more, I also have a small visible leak that makes it to the ground, which I now believe is the plug/seal, which I cant find a part number for, thats next to the driver side scavenger/secondary pump.
And yes I�m lifting the rear end up this weekend and giving the engine a complete degreasing front to back. Are there any areas that I should specifically avoid spraying too heavily with water.
The ticking was very audible from the passenger lower side after driving and present at all rpms, that accompanied with soot build up on drivers exhaust tip, thought were signs of scoring. I�m learning as i go with this machine, and my heads all over the place with everything that needs to be done and all the information/input I'm receiving�which I'm extremely great full for.
I intend to drop the sump, but was going to do so during next oil change so I could pull another oil sample first. Wanting to see what the silcon level will be.
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