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YOUR RESEARCHBlackstone oil report results - 996 3.6L, 7k mi
Leading reported evidence
Recommend oil (see below)
Suggestion or failed attempt
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
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Read evidence and context
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Suggestion · Original poster
Even though the manual doesn't list it as a recommended oil (see below).
Leading evidence: 'Recommend oil (see below)' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Recommend oil (see below)' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Suggestion · Original poster
It looks like this is just the second oil change for your 911, so this Porsche is still finishing its break-in period and these numbers are not unusual.
"It looks like this is just the second oil change for your 911, so this Porsche is still finishing its break-in period and these numbers are not unusual.
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Suggestion · Original poster
Copper is often the last metal to come down after wear-in, and it should continue to drop each oil change until it gets down towards our averages, which are based on ~3,400 miles oil use in this type of engine.
Copper is often the last metal to come down after wear-in, and it should continue to drop each oil change until it gets down towards our averages, which are based on ~2,600 miles oil use in this type of engine.
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Suggestion
Other cars....that hold 5qt's or so after running 7-8k miles for 4 month peroid...the oil is somewhat dark but my 996 with 4k miles and 8-9qt oil capacity and same 4 month period is pitch black...geez...
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Suggestion · Original poster
It looks like this is just the second oil change for your 911, so this Porsche is still finishing its break-in period and these numbers are not unusual.
"It looks like this is just the second oil change for your 911, so this Porsche is still finishing its break-in period and these numbers are not unusual.
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Suggestion · Original poster
Copper is often the last metal to come down after wear-in, and it should continue to drop each oil change until it gets down towards our averages, which are based on ~3,400 miles oil use in this type of engine.
Copper is often the last metal to come down after wear-in, and it should continue to drop each oil change until it gets down towards our averages, which are based on ~2,600 miles oil use in this type of engine.
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Suggestion
Other cars....that hold 5qt's or so after running 7-8k miles for 4 month peroid...the oil is somewhat dark but my 996 with 4k miles and 8-9qt oil capacity and same 4 month period is pitch black...geez...
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Sent oil into Blackstone - below are results for 02 996 C2 cab (purchased 2 months ago with 32k on odo).
On its 3rd 3.6L (yes, third), 34k on car, 7k on reman engine (full service records), 1st oil change at 2k miles, this one at 5k:
Blackstone report:
"It looks like this is just the second oil change for your 911, so this Porsche is still finishing its break-in period and these numbers are not unusual. Copper is often the last metal to come down after wear-in, and it should continue to drop each oil change until it gets down towards our averages, which are based on ~2,600 miles oil use in this type of engine. Silicon is from sealers and sand-casted parts, and it will also come down more. All other wear was low, and no contaminants were found. The slightly low viscosity isn't a problem. This looks like it will be a nice engine!"
centiStokes a little low on the 100*C reading there, but you have less than .5% fuel dilution so I wouldn't worry about that. Ditto I wouldn't worry about the copper just yet.
How is the car on its 3rd? I don't even really want to know. Please drive the poor thing so this engine will last.
What brand/weight oil was this?
Yeah, the 2 PO's put about 3k miles/year. I've already put that much in the last 2.5 months. At 7k on this engine, it pulls strong and lively. A blast to drive. PO's had a spotless service record but I guess just bad luck. Current reman was installed in June 2009 - assume that it's with the larger factory IMSB but can't confirm.
Mobil 1 0W40 - same oil that's been in since day 1 and all three motors.
Why no TAN or TBN? These are things that we take into heavy consideration when evaluating any UOA. Might want to see if they can provide you with that data as well.
Not sure what those tests would show?
From their website:
"Do you want a TBN? This is a test used to measure the amount of active additive left in the oil. It may be useful if you are interested in extending your oil usage."
A more in-depth explanation from their website:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/do-i-need-a-tbn.php
--
I wasn't "interested in extending my oil usage" so I didn't opt for it. What else does it show?
What is a UOA?
I'm still pretty curious about oil weights on 996 engines, because by the owner's manual we should all be using heavier weight oils. I know the auto industry has all shifted towards thinner oils like 0w and 5w, but I thought a lot of that was trying to get that elusive fleet fuel economy average up and not for protecting engines.
I just don't see how if the owner's manual suggests 10w-40 or 15w-50 in 200X how the exact same engine should use 5w-40 or 0w-40 in 2011.
I posted an analysis from my mobil 1 15w-50 awhile ago and the results were good but I've still shifted to Motul 5w-40 since then. We'll see how that analysis comes out.
This is one of the most important aspects of an oil analysis.. It helps determine how much life is left in the oil so you know IF you need to REDUCE the oil service intervals. Without this number it is possible to have already over extended the oil service in your engine and not even know it. Closely watching TBN values is what we have used to develop engine oils. This value is also what proved to us that the M96 engine needs oil service every 5,000 miles or 4 months (at least in our climate) for the oil to remain effective.
M96 engines see a lot of fuel intrusion compared to others, the OPs oil sample had 2% fuel intrusion. Due to the fact that fuel is solvent and not a lubricant this fuel can take a tremendous amount of life out of the oil and this will impact the TBN.
Without TBN you may see wear metals, but you can't grade the oil and help figure out if oil services need to be shortened or can be extended. Having developed oil packages from scratch with Lake Speed Joe Gibbs Racing oils I can say that TBN has historically been the main focus of our discussions and our trial and error development of M96 oil.
TBN is also very useful when comparing anti-wear packages between oils.
TAN is also important. It surprises me that they don't include this info. We don't use Blackstone for analysis, we use the lab at Lubrizol, the company that makes the additive packages for Joe Gibbs.
Jake, you're reading the report wrong. The OP's fuel dilution was <0.5%. The 2% number you were reading is the Universal Average for that motor with approx. 2,600 miles on the oil inverval.
KT:
1) Good job, keep doing the UOA's
2) Maybe decrease your interval to 4,000 miles until your copper comes down
3) I don't want to start an oil war/thread, but maybe consider a "better" oil to give you more high temp and high shear protection. Maybe, for example, Mobil One 5W50 (hard to find, Porsche approved) would be a better choice. Again, no oil wars. Just a thought.
Thanks for the additional info, Jake!
Unless I'm reading the results incorrectly, I think my oil sample had less than 0.5% fuel in the oil?
Blackstone does provide both TBN and TAN analysis if you request. But since I didn't understand the need, I didn't shell out the additional money. Not a big expense (now that I know which ones to select) but I don't like to spend money for the sake of spending money. Looking at the available tests, one could spend hundreds of dollars analyzing oil.
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/tests-price-list.php
I'm not an oil expert so I'll ask some basic questions - are the following assumptions correct?
1. 0W40, 5W40, and 10W40 all provide the same level of high temp "protection". So switching to 5W40 or 10W40 or 15W40 will do nothing for my engine if I'm concerned about cSt viscosity.
2. 0W40 is a "better" cold oil than 10W40 (for example in colder climates like MN).
3. Since my car was serviced at only Porsche dealers (two different ones, MN and WI), their choice of 0W40 since 2002 to today (across three different 3.6 engines) is Porsche approved and recommended. Even though the manual doesn't list it as a recommended oil (see below).
4. By switching to 5W50, I would have a higher temp (but lower cold weather) "protection".
I know there are many sources that go into technical details but thought I'd start here to make sure my basic understanding is correct.
Yep. I think oil changes are a cheap yet effective insurance...takes 30 min or so and can be done for around 75 bucks...you really can't beat that....3-4 times a year or 3-5k miles...
I know this isn't scientific but has anyone noticed how dark the oil gets? Other cars....that hold 5qt's or so after running 7-8k miles for 4 month peroid...the oil is somewhat dark but my 996 with 4k miles and 8-9qt oil capacity and same 4 month period is pitch black...geez...
Had the lab go back and do a TBN and TAN (they still have my original oil sample).
"Amended report to correct engine and add TBN/TAN. It looks like this is just the second oil change for your 911, so this Porsche is still finishing its break-in period and these numbers are not unusual. Copper is often the last metal to come down after wear-in, and it should continue to drop each oil change until it gets down towards our averages, which are based on ~3,400 miles oil use in this type of engine. The slightly low viscosity isn't a problem. The TBN was strong at 6.2 showing lots of active additive; less than 1.0 is too low. The TAN was 5.0 showing some acidity."
And in a follow up email to my question "Reading the results, is there any reason why I should change to a 5W50 oil?":
"Switching to 5W/50 shouldn't hurt anything, but I don't know that there's any obvious reason to do it. That copper should improve on it's own next time and we typically don't see much difference in wear between the various viscosities. You're 0W/40 should do a fine job. "
Thoughts? Comments?
What's youre reasoning for switching to 5w-50? Do you want to stick with Mobil 1?
Looking at the Porsche approved oils list (I know, I know, your don't have to use an oil on this list if you don't want to) Mobil 1 5W-50 is the only 5W-50 on the list.
http://www.pedrosgarage.com/Site_3/P...oved_Oils.html
I don't think moving to that oil will help or hurt. I do think that using oil weights recommended in a 8 to 11 year old owners manual may not be the best idea.
I'm gonna try Motul 8100 x-cess 5w-40 for my next oil change this weekend.
The switch ito Motul s mainly because Castrol can't get there sh*t together and Syntec 5w-40 (or edge syntec or whatever) has disappeared from every auto parts store in my region. I heard something about them having to recertify the oil with the various approving manufacturers.
if you want ultimate engine protection use the MOTUL 5W40 300V... best oil analysis results to date on that stuff with plenty of TBN after 3000 miles and 10 track hours
I'm tempted to use the 15W50 300V from Motul becuase it is "slippery" so this property may make up for the extra heavy weight... comes in handy during track days and will maintain viscosity longer...
I just scooped up 20 qts of Castol 5w-40 for about $100 after rebates at Advance. They still have more of the old stuff, but this will get me through 12k miles since I still have 2k miles to go on current oil which will take me through next summer.
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