Introduction, Debris in the engine, Green gaskets and other items

Hello everyone! My name is Alicia. I have been a long time lurker on rennlist, but I have finally been compelled to register as I am now suffering pretty badly with my beloved 996, Tina. I have come seeking advice from you very knowledgeable folk. Here are the details. Tina is a 1999 C2. She is well used - 110K, having traveled cross country several time, having visited the Bonneville Salt Flats and a few tracks across the country. Up until now, she has run like a champ. Recently she started getting a little damp from the infamous RMS issue, but never to the point where I thought it was a problem. A couple months ago, the clutch went and instead of waiting for my dear fiance to help me with it, I paid a highly recommended friend of a friend to do the clutch for me. We figured while he was in there, we would do the RMS. He was admittedly a bit nervous about it, but assured me it would be fine. He did the job and I drove the car for maybe 1000miles when out of the blue I pulled away from an intersection and noticed, all of a sudden, an almost imperceptible rumble from the back, lower end of the car. It almost felt like a drivetrain issue. Combined with this, the oil pressure gauge started freaking out. It would either stay really low- near 0, not above 1, OR if I turned it off for a while and turned it back on, it would peg around 4 and 5. After browsing a lot of articles on here and elsewhere we did and oil change (quite a bit of debris) and changed the oil sender to no avail. Last night we dropped the oil sump plate and pulled out TONS of green plastic, and small pieces of metal. My questions are: 1. Where would the green plastic come from? Fuel? Dip stick gasket? Camshaft O-ring? 2. Where would you find a good sealant for the oil pan ? It's lookign llike I have to order in online huh? 3. How soon should I flip the bitch? *sob* Sorry for the first post novella. I'm at my wits end.

Photos from the carnage.

Ouch. That is a rough first post. Can you talk a bit more about the debris? Was there pepper flake sized pieces of metal mixed in with the gasket peices? smaller pieces of metai? The green gasket pieces could be the sealed gasket part of the IMS bearing. Sounds like the bearing might be taking a dive. How well did the car run before you shut it down? Whatever you do, don't start the car. I believe the RMS seal has a green gasket on it. Hopefully it was installed correctly. Lots of folks can answer your questions better than I. Good luck.

Quotes source post: 7701828

No need to apologize. I think you're dealing with the situation quite reasonably. How much plastic debris? Probably doesn't matter with metal present too. Is the metal ferrous? If so almost certain it is IMS bearing. What's in the oil filter housing? Without the other symptoms/behavior there's alway some trash in the sump trash that can have been there since the engine left the factory. The stuff's too heavy to be picked up by the oil pump intake pipe inflow and it remains until someone drops the pan or the sump plate. Generally anything that makes it into the oil pump starts out small and of course becomes smaller as the oil pump just pulverizes it but because it started out small suggests that it is coming from something wearing out. Not sure what the IMS bearing seal material color is. I think I've seen it is black but it could be green. And since the bearing replaced the mechanic could have used a bearing with a different color of seal material. Are the oil sump baffles intact? IIRC they're black plastic or rubber like and not green. But with the other symptoms, the oil pressure issues... IMS bearing. You might have the mechanic pull the oil pump and see if there's anything wrong with it but the odds are slim it is the pump. Any chance of claiming a warranty on the work/labor from the IMS repair? Flipping the car's one possibility but you'll get next to nothing for it in its current condition. Check prices though I may be wrong, but non-running older 996s just don't have much market value. If the engine's toast and you can't get any satisfaction from the mechanic who did the IMS bearing repair there are other options. Some relatively quick and painless though expensive, up front anyhow. Some sort of the opposite. Sincerely, Macster.

It would help to know how much of that is ferrous. The black pieces if non-ferrous if hard plastic can be chain guide material. There are two colors for chain guides: Dark brown, almost black and a bit lighter brown a sort of dark caramel color. I can't say for sure but I mention it as a possibility that the green material may be a seal from a chain guide tensioner. Regardless I don't think you're going to solve this without dropping the engine and removing the oil scavage pumps and having a look to see how far any debris made into the heads/valve gear. All the camchain guides and tensioners want to be checked too to see if they're missing any of the heavy thick plastic facing the chains run against. The tensioners need to be checked to make sure a tensioner hasn't failed and let a chain run with slack which will make a racket and tear/knock bits of tensioner guide material loose. Sincerely, Macster.

Quotes source posts: 7701915, 7701915, 7701915, 7701915, 7701915, 7701915

Thanks for responding guys. There is quite a bit of plastic. I would say almost a teaspoon full? I'm not sure how to quantify it. The metal is non-ferrous and almost goldish in colour? There's more of the same stuff in the oil filter housing, but the pieces are smaller. Now that you mention it, a Porsche dealer replaced a baffle for me a couple years ago ( I had never heard of it before) but they described it to me as a hose? Do you think maybe that is what I am looking at? Where and what IS this mysterious oil baffle? I thought there was just one. Sadly, no. Yes, I realize I am screwed here. Would love to just step up into a turbo anyway, but I'm rather poor at the moment. I am ALL ears. I'm willing to ANYTHING! Well...almost anything...hee hee

Quotes source post: 7701905

Car ran fine both and ...after...I know, awful. We drove it for a 1/4 after changing the oil sender and oil filter to see if that worked. The oil pressure was reading around 4. We dropped the oil pan because it stayed pegged at 4 without fluctuating. The plastic is mostly soft, like a gasket, but there are some softer pieces in there too. It's a mess.

where are you located? I am still reading allthe above and will ping in after I digest it BTW welcome

I didn't see any mention of the IMS being worked on in the original post, only the RMS had been replaced.

so Macster stated "Not sure what the IMS bearing seal material color is. I think I've seen it is black but it could be green. And since the bearing replaced the mechanic could have used a bearing with a different color of seal material" the IMS was not changed you ran the car after changing the oil and sending unit... any noise? I am nearly 100% confident I would not start that motor and that you have an IMS bearing failing (the metal flakes) check the filer, take it apart and roll it out.. how much stuff... The plastic might be the new RMS that was installed incorrect depth (just a guess) I cannot see the pics from work but when I get home I will have a look no one wants your car in the shape it is in...the dealer would give you $2500... trust me I just saw this happen to a local....

Hey guys...I misspoke. When I said flip it, I only meant off load it and pick up another p-car. I am very aware of what a worthless pile I have on my hands right now. The guy who did the clutch offered to buy it from me a few eeks ago. I should have done it. I am located just north of Philadelphia ( I am a recent transplant). When we ran the car after the oil sending unit replacement, there was some vibration. We immediately shut it off. From what you guys are telling me, I guess the IMS should be the next step.

Quotes source post: 7702120

Correct me if I'm wrong, but IMS bearing bits would be ferrous and she said they're non-ferrous.

I have to double check the material of the bearing... the last one we did left a ton of flakes and particulate everywhere.... to the OP.... next step is pull the oil filter and look inside and OMG...NICE AVATAR!!

Sorry to hear about the issue but I can't help myself.......A women that can talk P-Car.....I think I love you.......

^ Oh boy.. You didn't even say "Hi!" Pete.

I definitely appreciate the warm welcome. A girl is always susceptible to flattery The flakes are definitely not ferrous. I would really like to identify these pieces. You can see the gold coloured flakes and even pieces that look threaded. And then there is the mysterious green O-ring? of some sort.

Quotes source post: 7702206

The oil filter was pulled twice, both times the same sort of material was lodged in the fins. There was also material in the housing. The first time it was pulled we didn't think it was THAT much more than would be considered normal.

Here's a picture of the IMS bearing off of my '02. Those green pieces would not appear to have come from here.

Welcome, Al. You don't fool me, it's your fiance in the avatar. Good plan to get quick replies.

Maybe when the old RMS was pulled the old inner o-ring remained in there and was pushed into the case when the new one was inserted. Or the new o-rings are the only ones that are green it broke installing it and ended up in there. The metal sure looks like bearing material but you say it's threaded? I'm uncertain if the valve guides are threaded or pressed in. You should take a closer look at the oil plug hole when the plug is out. It could be somebody did a couple trys of installing new threads and didn't bother to remove debri from the sumps when it was pushed in there. The engine failure I'm reading as the cam or crank is being read wrong prompting the computer to end up setting the engine into higher revs at start. A durametric reader could give some insight. The crank or cams being read in the wrong positions is a major failure in the engine or the cam positioning system is screwed up. Those devices do appear to have that sort colored metal on their casings. Looks like a major job is needed. I'm sure you realize porsche would cover any possible mistake their guys would make and they could of spotted any developing problems.

Those debris sure don't look like anything I have seen around. You might want to bring those debris to your local Porsche dealer or at least Porsche expert. They might be able to tell what it is if they see it in person.

maybe from this:

Quotes source post: 7702539

Welcome to Rennlist Alicia, maybe Jake Raby will see this post and chime in. He has probably see it all regarding the 996 engines.

Quotes source post: 7702120

Yes, I misread RMS for IMS. I've been down with the flu and 102 fever the last couple of days and still not 100%. Sincerely, Macster.

Quotes source post: 7702403

Sorry....Hi meine little Fraulein!

My $0.02 is that the "gold" is brass and the green o ring is a large radius ring. For what....Not sure yet. I dont remember any green rings that went on the RMS. I threw out the old one so I don't remember what that looked like either.

I've seen some RMS' that were green (see pic 1). But I just had the latest and greatest RMS installed along with the LN Engineering IMS bearing upgrade and as you can see the latest RMS part is black. Yours could have been older stock especially if it was obtained from an indy. Is there any oil leaking at the housing indicating that the RMS is damaged again?

That green is a piece of plastic that keeps the rubber seal in it's proper shape. You take it off when you install the seal. Either that or I'm going to be pulling my gear box out again.

Good point E! Might not be as bad as it looks....Maybe a new RMS seal and all is good. Maybe......

what the hell... I am seeing the metal for the first time,....its like its bearing (main bearing) material, Is all that from in there...? yikes, something has given up....I am thinking..... (my hope is that I can recall a place where that migh have come from that is repairable (oil pump, guide of some sort ... but I am coming up empty right now...) do not start that motor (IMO) I am almost wondering if it is the front IMS bearing (never before seen as bad) a connecting rod bearing main bearing I just dont know right now... will continue to think

OK re-read the story in OP... I would not start the car.... I would suspect the oil pump has had a failure. from the oil presure issues and the rumble at the rear... the car runs (or did) and you changed the oil and drove it.....then changed again.. no mention of horrible sounds... no mention of rattle, bang, click, pop, knock.... I see some o'rings on the oil pump and have not seen the inside but guess there would be a bushing (bearing)... my money is on the oil pump....might not end too badly for you if it is and you can get the motor cleaned out see what Jake says....thats my "internet diagnosis"

I am the one who did the clutch and RMS. Everything on that job went smoothly and I looked my work over multiple times to ensure things were done correctly. I went over to look at the debris in the pan today and from my best opinion it looks as if the bronze colored metal may be a valve guide, but I'm not completely sure. I beleive the valve guides are made of manganese bronze and that is non ferrous. Although I'm unsure of the green gasket I'm thinking valve stem seal, but the shape of the gasket doesn't seem to fit that of the stem seal. I know I've seen in older Pcars that when the motor would over heat, the valve guides would drop or crack. Hopefully someone with more insight may be able to know exactly what it is.

The front of the IMS rides in the oil pump, so there really isn't any bearing to throw off material there. Might be from a chain tensioner o-ring. They are green and one could come off when a tensioner is being removed, then get pushed into the engine. Another possibility is that is the remains of a cam cover cap. Perhaps someone was trying to remove on and ended up pushing it into the engine and did not remove it. I know that I once pushed one in, but I did remove it. The one on the intake cam side at the drive sprocket can drop into the cam area (the other ends will not allow this. And a cam cover plug has green plastic and gold/brass colored metal. If one dropped into the cam area it might get chewed up by the chains and sprockets and end up looking something like that.

I didnt know the cam seals had a metal portion, but that makes sense...only trouble is that sure looks like an o'ring... not chewed up cap material

Quotes source post: 7703693

SHHHH - old Porsche's dont have problems Welcome to the group. That "threaded" material is a bit of a worry... for one it looks brass (colored) and I cant think of anything threaded into brass/bronze the o'ring might have come from a few places and although a problem, i woory less about it then all that metalic debris...from the look of the one picture there is a LOT of it... is there a chance we could get an object in there for scale (ie a penny)

Quotes source post: 7703707

The cam caps are a green plastic over a ferrous metal, just checked. Rick 99 996C4 87 944S

picture of o-ring material in post #16, that o-ring (or packing) is way too big to be a valve guide seal. I know that it sounds silly to hear, but something broke in the motor, and rarely does something break and not effect another part/system. Consequently the motor needs to be opened up. I see no other option. Even if you identified the newly liberated parts, you're gonna want to put new ones back in. Assuming of course that no foreign parts were introduced into the engine. I hate to bring up that unlikely possibility, but there it is. Doug's post #33 would be one example. I feel for you Al. I think this one's gonna sting a bit. Brian

Can you lay the o-ring with a ruler, so we can see the size? Rick 99 996C4 87 944S

Quotes source post: 7703693

Someone may but the the best person to determine what exactly is wrong is the person at the engine. My best guess with the benefit of reading the other posts is a chain tensioner failed. That would explain the o-ring pieces and could explain the bronze colored pieces and the noise. Or maybe not. The problem with pieces of metal in the oil sump is they may have been there since day one. New engines shed material. Sure, not an o-ring, but that can be a sloppy mechanic/factory worker dropping something in the engine. Cheaper to just let the engine go on down the line that to take the time to partially disassemble the engine to fish out something that could possibly reside in the oil sump forever with no one the wiser. I've torn down a few used engines that were unopened since the day the left the factory and trash in the sump is not that rare. The bronze colored material is sort of out character, out of place. Except my memory is the chain tensioner piston or possibly sleeve can be bronze which then takes us back to my 1st paragraph. Generally when approaching an unknown engine problem one simply begins eliminating what it isn't. This generally -- always generally -- means eliminating what is easiest to eliminate -- though of course there must be some connection to the symptoms -- it's not a bad bulb in the dash lights -- until one can't eliminate the item or assembly or suspected component currently under investigation or he has some insight and an a ha moment and the light suddenly breaks. To avoid the expense of removing the engine what can be checked out with the engine in the car would I think come first, although sometimes while one can eliminate or identify the source of a problem with the engine in the car to fix it requires the engine come out so it may be more efficient to just drop the engine, gain 360 deg. access and start checking things. Remove the oil pump and check it out, including any bypass valving. Pull the oil scavage pumps to see what if any debris is in them. Remove the camshaft covers and look for any trash. This requires more work to remove chain tensioner pressure and to lock/secure the cams. And of course check the VarioCam actuators, guides, camchain tensioners, guide rails for any signs of distress. If the material in the engine is not the result of trash introduced at the factory but instead came from a failing component at some point its source will become obvious. And once you know what the source then you can determine the amount of work to put it right. Best of luck and I mean that sincerely. I gave up working on cars and engines for family and friends cause it only takes one of these friend of a friend projects to go wrong to take all the fun out of the work. Sincerely, Macster.

BTW the main bearing are not that color...nor are the connecting rod.. that strange bronze color has me scratching the noodle

If a timing chain jumped a sproket...

As I stated I am still unsure of the green gasket and said it does not look like a stem seal. Here's a pic of a valve guide.

interesting...maybe ? that at least has similar properties - you might have something there. At any rate the motor needs to be torn down and as Macster said... find the smoking gun PLUS do a serious cleaning

I've seen this before when smuggling large amounts of small diamonds across borders in engines. I really prefer the large diamonds. The darn things really trash the engine if a driver races the car around but it does help giving them a heat treatment to add more clarity and it gives a good excuse to tear the engine down and extract the rocks with out alarming the police. Getting senile I forget if I removed the last batch.....I'll be right back

green o ring should be easy for someone who works on these motors. These are generally a special composition like viton, buna N, PTFE or something other than common neoprene used for a special application. The bronze looks too orange for a valve guide as they are usually more yellow. Here again, I believe there is very little bronze in this motor and it should be an easy guess for someone that works on them. This thread has be wondering a bit...anyway on a more pleasent note, what was your speed at Bonneville? I did 148.546 mph on a stock Honda Interceptor 1000 back in '85.

isnt there green O ring at the oil filter cap?

Save all the debri from the oil pan and filter then have Ivangene/Ed come over and play put the puzzle together Anyway you might get an idea of how large the o-ring was arranging the pieces together. No doubt though after seeing one of the pictures with the quantity of metal parts I'd be having the engine taken apart and redone or replace the engine. I'm not sure if I was semi impolite and mentioned earlier that I'd never use that guy, who worked on the clutch and replaced the RMS, ever again. Stick with a dedicated to porsche mechanic with all the special tools or dealers that know their stuff.

Quotes source post: 7705960

I'm the one that did the clutch and have done hundreds of clutchs in my day. Could you explain to me how a clucth and RMS seal would in anyway affect the engine? The car is not leaking a drop of oil and she has put over 1500 miles on the car since then. This is not a lightly driven car. It is daily driven and tracked frequently w/ 110k miles on it. These things happen and I always stand behind my work. And I yes I do have many specialty tools, but tools don't make the mechanic, the mechanic makes the tools. Not that there are any specialty tool needed to to a clutch in a 996,

Quotes source post: 7705522

You guys are such a wealth of information! And I see that I am going to have to do a better job of keeping up with the replies. Here are some photos with a ruler. I apologize for not being able to find a metric ruler. Also, as I said before, Jake came highly recommended. And based on what you guys said here, the clutch and RMS install don't seem to be related to the current problem. I don't think he is at fault. As Jake said, this car was never driven lightly (although it only got driven about once a week for the last 2 years). I take a bit of pride in that, although right now it doesn't feel quite so good. *sigh* I know for sure that we won't be starting this engine up anytime soon. I'm just trying to decided if to try to fix the problem, or sell the car and get something else now. If it's not a SUPER HUGE problem, this could be a fun project. I could learn to really work on the engine instead of just doing small maintenance jobs. I really do appreciate all of your input. Yes please! I could use more pleasant conversation. I squeezed out 157mph in the C2. It was radar verified. The speedo said I was doing 170mph Anyway, it was the day after I got it and I found out hours later that I was misfiring on one cylinder - cracked coil pack. I was running 152mph all day but found that a slight tweak of the taco wing bought me the extra mphs. The elevation and 91 octane also weren't doing me any favours. I've since added a few teeny hp upgrades. Too bad I'll never have the chance to test them out on this engine

The more I look at the parts, it looks like one of the cam chain adjuster pads failed. The original one on my were black plastic and there is a green o-ring under one of them. The ferrous metal is from the metal backer plate under the pad and the chain chewing through each other. My pads were badly worn at 105K. Rick 99 996C4 87 944S

hmmm....the o-ring looks about right, but I haven't been able to find any ferrous metal. It's all that gold coloured non-ferrous metal, black plastic, both hard and soft, some dark brown plastic and the round green gasket thing.

the pads have metal backing? I thought they were just plastic molded parts....? if a pad came apart that badly I would suspect a CEL due to the cam actuator trying to compensate for the missing pad...any codes?

Quotes source post: 7706230

The pads are just plastic, but the actuator itself under the pad. Rick 99 996C4 87 944S

Quotes source post: 7706019

I agree with you 100%. I have seen countless techs with giant rollaways filled with Snap-on tools that don't know which end of the wrench to hold. Also I have 2 friends that are long time techs at the Dealer here. The most senior with nearly 30 years with Porsche made several errors when he replaced my motor that I quietly corrected days later. When building the others Buell race motor and doing some other work on his bike, I was shocked at how inept he was with things mechanical. No basic knowledge of how mechanical parts function and interact or basic physics. Techs work at the dealer, because it cushy, easy and they don't have to know anything, and they usually have benefits. If they had a lot of drive and knowledge, they would work for themselves.

Quotes source post: 7706802

wow - not to go off topic here but that's a little bit of an over generalization?

Quotes source post: 7706845

you're right! LOL, ha!

Quotes source post: 7706875

but yes - I can imagine after your experience I'd feel the same way PS: I really think Alicia is a dude who has decided us this is the fastest way to generate the most amount of help from us geezers if he was a she! Until we see more pictures I'm not convinced from the small postage stamp avatar!

Quotes source post: 7706877

so more pics will prove what? No one posts pics of themself to verify identity. I understand wanting to see more pics, but I really dont think we have a right to ask for some proof? PS Alicia, you can just PM me the pic

Quotes source post: 7706919

Trust me Alica is not a dude.... Ive met her last year or 2 on a midnight run in Time Square.... a true gearhead.

Quotes source post: 7707055

thats just great, now I am in love ---- Thanks Ferd

I've never been inside the M96 to speculate but I'll take that chassis off your hands and put my '87 motor/trans in it.....

Quotes source post: 7707079

Really? I would rather one that is kinda stupid but wants to dig in and get dirty... Ya know..... This one is wayyyyyyy to smart for my likeing!

Quotes source post: 7706919

100% not a dude. Maybe ask her fiance for a pic, hahaha.

ha! This thread really did get off topic, but yes, I did notice that when I had no avatar there was far less interest My original question was answered though. I think I have a plan in mind. think In the meantime....here's proof it's me and I do a tiny bit of work on my car. This is me fighting to get sliders in for my carbon fiber/kevlar Status seats (love 'em). p.s. the car doesn't have any of those stickers on it anymore. I only run that vinyl for cross country rallies.

great seats, I had GT3 Euro knock off's in my 99' thay make a huge differance ! I really miss my seats the most - and my PSE hacked mufflers (the 86' is WAY too quiet) Thanks for the pics, no need to proove anything around here... but far be it from me to stop you from trying to do so

keep us updated on your progress Alicia.... these type of threads really helps us around here. GL on the engine diagosis...

girl.. With all due respect.. With legs that long, Ill over look your Brains! Welcome to RL. Sorry to hear about your issues.

Quotes source post: 7708237

As Kramer on Seinfeld would say......giiddyap. And....Being of the not to inclined mechanical set when it comes to the innards of the motor....I welcome additional photos

Gesus settle down folks. This is you guys on the forums when a lady posts.....

PTHHH... my name is not MIKE!!

well that doesnt mean I dont like the name Mike... i mean, if, you know... if you do

I had a friend named Mike.... great guy, do you like Mike.... I .... I mean, as a name ya know.... not welll LIKE MIKE...

OK so that's it right, that's what's wrong... you like Mike right??? I knew it

Geezus I fricken hate that guy... what do you... awe nevermind, this.... well.. this isnt really working, ya know I mean, we should... well we should see other people I mean its OK you like Mike... I mean hell even I like him...

Don't post here again..............

Same Alicia we're talking about? I think so... VIDEO

We could replace a lot of posts with this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RNp7...eature=related

If I had a tongue like that I'd be famous! My screen name would be Max (name of first pet you ever had) Clover (name of street you grew up on).

OK well, I see we have gone way OT back to the debris....is there any record of the fill tube being replaced? (there is an o'ring there that might have been dropped into the motor) if so, the o'ring might have clogged an oil passage, starved a bearing and spun it. Since there is no obvious "knocking" (this is a guess since it was not mentioned ever in the OP) my guess is a mian bearing. There is also a shim on the crank that sets the endplay, it is another possabillity. The oil pump is ruled out as it does not have that type of material in it. sorry to say, IMO you have a bearing that has gone due to a blocked oil passage. SO, what are your plans... sell the car? find a donor engine? rebuild? replace?

This looks like a classic bottom end failure.. I see this mostly from engines that have been damaged from oil starvation, usually from track service with extremely high oil temps. For Alicia to have experienced this failure I'd expect from the symptoms that the AOS failed and the engine's vacuum was pulling the oil from the main bearings, as I have seent his occur before. Her symptoms with the oil pressure gauge freaking out also supports this hypothesis. The AOS can fail in at least 3 different ways with different secondary failures stemming from it, this is the most extreme and least experienced if it did happen to her. The other thing that could have happened is the oil pump drive hex failed, resulting in the oil pump no longer being driven. I doubt this occured, because it it had the oil pressure gauge would have dropped like a rock and never moved again. Alicia, I know where a few good used engines are, if you are in the market for that route.

Howdy Jake, thanks for stopping by! Its good to know you have leads on "good used engines" thats a great route for some (I know it would be my route)

Those gold shavings sort of look like pieces of main shaft or rod bearings....

The gold shavings are a portion of the main bearings that have been too hot (glowing red) from a lack of lubrication and have shed. These are totally normal and expected from an engine that has experienced a failure related to oil starvation. I've seen this about 40 times in the past year, have fully documented each failure as well as the secondary failures.

I was hoping you'd pop in to share your extensive Porsche info concerning this thread. Thanks for your input Jake.

Thanks Jake, and everyone else. We are going to pull the head next weekend. Hopefully they (the fiance and friend) will let me get some wrench time in. Oftentimes they push me aside cause it's easier to do it themselves than try to teach me. I think this is an awesome opportunity to learn some stuff though. I've decided to keep old Tina. I'll be using this thread a lot as reference material. You guys have been so amazing. Cosmos...omg. Where did you find that?!

Alicia, The material in the sump is clearly bearing material.. This issue is much deeper than the cylinder head, just so you can be prepared. if you need help just look this way, we help people understand these engines daily.. Maybe you can even use my book to put it back together, if its off the road more than a couple of months!

my guess is it's gonna be off the road till Fall or later (sucks it happened in Summer)

Could make a very tasty 3.8.

any update on that poor engine ?

any update on the green debris thingy ?