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YOUR RESEARCHHelp: Wheel Stuck
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Reported cause · Original poster
I am setting the e-brake but that is a mechanical brake in the rear wheels, my problem is always with the front two wheels, but the three times it has been really stuck was always the front passenger side wheel.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I also think it has to do with the rim and brake size there is a lot more clearance in the back meaning snow is less likely to fill the back wheels to the point of touching the brakes vs.
Leading evidence: 'always' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'always' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Fill back wheels' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
The car is driven every day, there is no salt used on our roads since the temperature is to cold for it to be effective so they use gravel instead.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I also think it has to do with the rim and brake size there is a lot more clearance in the back meaning snow is less likely to fill the back wheels to the point of touching the brakes vs.
Run 30 min and was pumping the brake pedal regularly
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Suggestion · Original poster
I had it running for 30 min and was pumping the brake pedal regularly to maybe try and circulate brake fluid but that didn't work either.
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Fill back wheels
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Suggestion · Original poster
I also think it has to do with the rim and brake size there is a lot more clearance in the back meaning snow is less likely to fill the back wheels to the point of touching the brakes vs.
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
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Suggestion · Original poster
I am setting the e-brake but that is a mechanical brake in the rear wheels, my problem is always with the front two wheels, but the three times it has been really stuck was always the front passenger side wheel.
These are separate views of the same evidence. Frequency alone does not establish a fix, and these counts must not be added together.
always
No successful repair reported for this finding.
1
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Reported cause · Original poster
I am setting the e-brake but that is a mechanical brake in the rear wheels, my problem is always with the front two wheels, but the three times it has been really stuck was always the front passenger side wheel.
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25 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
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I am wondering if any other people running the awd porsches in cold conditions have suffered from this.
Today was -25 degrees celcius, about -20f for you americans. I have had my front wheels stick a couple times in the cold weather. I had always assumed that it was a build up of snow in the front wheel that the brake would melt then freeze stuck. Today I had my wheels stuck again.
my driver side wheel always breaks free fairly easily by just moving the car, but this is the second time my passenger side wheel has become stuck reeaall good. Today I knocked all the snow and ice out of the wheel, and took a blow torch to the caliper and rotor. I had the blow torch on the rotor until it was just cool to the touch and in water would not instantly freeze on it and for some reason I couldn't budge it free. I tried driving it and it wouldn't budge. I had my tow strap hooked to a spoke in my wheel and the other end to my truck to try and break it free but it still wouldn't budge, jut drug the whole car (it was in neutral) I am figuring it is something more than just a little ice in the brakes and was hoping someone could help me trouble shoot.
I am not sure if maybe there might be some condesation in the brake line that froze and locked the wheel. I had it running for 30 min and was pumping the brake pedal regularly to maybe try and circulate brake fluid but that didn't work either. I drove the car trying to break it free before I got my truck winched my car into the trailer and took it home. to store in the heated garage to try and trouble shoot it tomorrow if possible.
Thanks for any insight
Jordan
If the car is still on ice or snow it might be sensing if it should brake or let it roll. Other than that maybe water in one of the systems. I wouldn't trust blowtorching rotors and calipers. The reason for warping is going hot to cold fast which that sets up. Then if the rotor is warped its up against the pads on one of the sides like the brakes are on.
I'd think if its water in the brake caliper area between the pistons and body then you would have water in the brake fluid causing the brakes to apply when the brakes get warmed up. Maybe its just dirt or rust with water it wont release causing the freezing of the piston or pistons. This one I'd bet on if you aren't getting any brakes dragging after heating up the brakes. Also it isn't uncommon for a brake calipers piston to freeze up after extending.
I wonder if you have rust between the pad and the rotor... as opposed to ice. When was the car last driven? What were the conditions? Salted roads? Has the temperature fluctuated since it's been sitting? Has it made any odd noises in the past? Maybe there's a mechanical problem like a broken CV joint.
I'd start by jacking up the wheel and removing the brake pads. Then see if it spins...
+1 for rust (or salt corrosion since its aluminum)
the wheels fit fairly snug so some engineer can calculate the CTE of the rotor to the wheel and see at what temp the fit becomes "hard press"
The car is driven every day, there is no salt used on our roads since the temperature is to cold for it to be effective so they use gravel instead. I am not to worried about warping the rotor with the blow torch since I never even got it actually warm. I had it cool to the touch, to the point where water would not instantly freeze. The last 5 days I have driven the car every day twice a day. the temperature has been steadily dropping from -10C to -25C. Yesterday when my wheel froze I drove to my GF's got to her place fine at 3PM and it was stuck when I left there at 8-830 PM later that evening, so it would have only been sitting for about 5 hours in -20 to -25 conditions, before I parked it at her house, I was driving the car for 20 minutes in city conditions.
If the snow packed around the caliper melts and or turns to slush allowing it to get between the
pad
and
caliper
. It can refreeze solid expanding and locking the pads against the rotor.
If that is the case you would have to melt the ice that has formed in the space behind the pads to allow the pads to retract.
If this is what is happening maybe new pads would help by reducing the amount of space between the pads and caliper? Water expands about 9% when it freezes, less water less pressure against the pads?
I am setting the e-brake but that is a mechanical brake in the rear wheels, my problem is always with the front two wheels, but the three times it has been really stuck was always the front passenger side wheel. From what I remember it is the furthest wheel away from the brake fluid resevoir which would mean the longest brake line and the most room for condensation to accumulate and freeze in the line. Brake fluid is an oil so all the condensate should accumulate together since oil and water don't mix, but the brake fluid is always kept at such a high pressure that I dont know if the condensate could freeze of if it did it would be blown apart right away by pumping the brake pedal.
Thanks for the insight guys.
I am going to see if anywhere around the city has some new brake pads for me right away. Hopefully I can find some soon because I hate driving my Titan as a DD
So I took the car to the dealership and they said that they have seen quite a few porsches with the red brembo brake options coming in.
They say that it has to do with the caliper block being aluminum and the pistons being steel and having different ce's that the caliper shrinks more and faster than the piston and forces it out and it seizes.
They said basically parking it inside when possible and clearing the snow out of the wheels since the snow and ice will aid in cooling the caliper quicker.
It may but I am guessing most dont notice because it is a lot easier to break them being small calipers vs. the 4 pot calipers up front. Basically if it gets to the point the rears seize your fronts will be really bad.
I also think it has to do with the rim and brake size there is a lot more clearance in the back meaning snow is less likely to fill the back wheels to the point of touching the brakes vs. the front.
I am not sure if this is the truth, it is what the dealership told me, I trailered my car there this morning and watched them just hold the heat gun to it for a length of time then it drove out of there fine.
It's quite likely that due to machining tolerance the front, or even front right caliper has bores that are 0.0005" smaller - so with thermal expansion/contraction if becomes an interference fit with the piston where the other calipers haven't contracted that much... yet... take it down to -60 degrees.
Yup PSM light is and abs light is flashing. I think it basically lights up when all but one wheel are moving. ABS is to prevent locking up your brakes, and your wheel is stuck because it is frozen/seized so the car believes something is wrong with the ABS.
This exact thing happened and was reported and resolved in the 997 forum within the last month. (Search). The victim was in Canada. I posted a solution. Easy fix.
My brakes froze twice on my 911(in winter), both times I washed my car but didn't take it out on the road to dry out the brakes and they froze. Took quite a bit of effort to break them free.Didn't notice any lights on in my dash at the time.
Thanks. I really didn't think to look 12 pages back into the 997 forum since I don't have a 997.
I have had moisture freeze and know how to deal with it, but the temperatures I was experiencing here in Edmonton Alberta are much more severe than what you will find in Whistler BC Today in Edmonton at 10am when I went to shovel my driveway it had warmed up to -25C and with the wind chill -36C, so about -33f you you americans. This time the dealership said it actually had to deal with the expanding and contracting properties of the different metals in the components that caused it to seize. But as you said before it is still the same simple solution. Warm up the caliper. except it takes a little longer than it would to just melt some ice.
Thanks again
Jordan
Same as what the dealership said so it figures correct.
Sorry to hear the problem. I hope you have a garage you can semi heat. Maybe park it beside the firelace
Yes I have a heated Garage, but even with it going 24/7 with the -30 or colder temps it struggles to keep it above freezing. I still trailered it to the dealership just in case I did some damage driving it for that km trying to break it free and get off the road safely. It might have broken free earlier in my garage, but I wanted it to be checked out and diagnosed before I drove it again.
I have had moisture freeze my brakes before, but this was much worse which is why I wanted to know what it was.
