Seat Belt Harness help needed please

I am wondering what most of you have done in the way of harnesses for track use. The purpose of these would be to keep me better planted at track days. WIth the stock seats and belts, I find the stock seats almost useless at times. I am looking at the following: Objectives: 1- four point harnesses (prefer 2" over 3") 2- some kind of harness guide bar behind the seats (I actually bought one from a company last year who claimed that it will work for tall drivers and learned that I would have to move my seat forward four inches) 3- mounting the rear of the belts to factory belt or rear seat locations with a way to unclip them easily if possible Restrictions: 1- I am using factory sport seats and do not want to go to GT3 or aftermarket seats 2- I have the Bose subwoofer enclosure behind the rear seats 3- I need to rewtain access to the rear seats (OEM tequipment bar not possible then) 4- I am tall, fat (and some say ugly too) and keep my seat back at the notch farthest back although I drive fairly straight-up with little recline 5- I am not too smart 6- I have dumb friends I have seen the following Brey Krause accessories that could help: 1- Inner tunnel seat harness mounts 2- Outer seat harness mounts 3- Rear harness mount that will not work with Bose and does not allow use of the rear seat (not good for me) Other stuff: 1- I also saw a picture of someone's car that had an OEM Porsche Panamerica roll bar (no cross or diagonal bars) and he welded a cross bar at the very back, between the two support bars, not the main hoop, allowing it to be used for harness mounting without sacrificing the back seat. Any input or information would be greatly appreciated. Dumb comments, criticism or thrashing are just as welcome but less productive and helpful to my cause. Thanks in advance. P.S. I will trade one single loaf of my wife's world-famous Banana Bread for a good, useful solution

5 views and no repsonses? Come on guys, a fellow Rennlister needs some help

I think your Bose in the back is your challenge.......focus on that.....everything else is no problem. Call Brey......see what they say on the Bose. By "OEM Porsche Panamerica" I assume you mean Techquipment......be aware that that roll bar (whether with or with-out cross member) does impead 'full' backward movement of stock seats....may or may not be an issue for you. Good luck to ya

I was told that the Tequipment bar (that Panareica bar) did not impede movement of the seats (except for extreme recline). Does anyone know if a simple harness guide bar can be purchased for the 996 coupe? I only need it to guide the belts so I can attach them at the rear seatbelt mounting spots. The one I bought was from Stable Energies and was told that it would not interfere with the front seats but they are clearly wrong. Really, a guide bar and some of the Brey Krause inner and outer mounts would probably do the trick...

Well it will hit the back left (outside) corner of your drivers seat about 10" up from the floor.......at least those were the pics & info I had when I researched it...we're talking the couple inches of rearward movement......no problem w/GT3 seats.

Damn! It keeps coming back to me buying GT3 seats which is what I'm trying to avoid.

Alon, I did a lot of research on this subject a bit less than two years ago. The complete Brey-Krause system of R-1035 harness mount for the shoulder straps and the R-9001, R9003 for the belt and sub-belt mount is currently the only acceptable hardware for a 6 point belt system for stock sport seats on a 996. And you must use a 6 pt. system, not a 4 pt. Even this is a compromise and in some people's opinion unsafe because of the possibility of the shoulder straps slipping off your shoulders. However, it's what I and several others on this board have and most people who know about harness systems believe it to be safe. But no one would say that even this system is optimal. However, if you start changing the angle the shoulder straps from where they meet your shoulders, and possibly the width of their mount points, and the length of those straps, then you are in uncharted territory. I have learned that you can kill yourself very quickly in a minor collision with a badly designed harness system. Sorry to be so pessimistic, but with your restrictions you're better off with the stock seat belts.

I don't consider you as being pessimistic and your feedback is much appreciated. I guess that at the end of the day, I'll probably end up with a proven setup using the seats and proper bar or just staying with the street setup for now. Thanks again.

Check stable energies, stableenergies.com -- I got their B-pillar harness bar but I believe they also have a C-pillar bar for the 996. The B-pillar would not work for you because the seat would be too far up. With this setup, use the BK inside mount, and then install an eyebolt in the outer seat belt mounting point, and in the rear seat belt mounts for the shoulder straps. You can then get a dual sub-strap and bolt them on to the front seat mounting bolts. You don't need an outer mount from BK. With this setup (this is exactly how mine is done, except for the b-pillar bar) you retain the Bose speakerbox because nothing mounts to the rear struts.

I obsessed long and hard over this issue, then at a DE with only one car involved there was a rollover where the driver, while hanging upside down, had to be cut out of the car. He was OK due to a roll bar and full harness. I decided that I would get a cage and 6 point harness. I am having a bolt-in cage with welded attachment points put in. The front part of the cage can be removed separately from the back cage. I'm using GT3 seats because they, along with the bar for the harness, will put the harness at the right angle to protect me. I've also purchased a Hans device to protect my neck. Overreaction, maybe, but I've seen what can happen and I just want to have fun and stay safe.

I obsessed about this stuff for a long long time also. What it comes down to is that short of installing a cage (obviously the best solution) you have to figure out what you feel is a good compromise. I wasn't thrilled about having harnesses with no roll-over protection, but on these cars (and most modern carss) it seems like the a-pillar collapses, not the b-pillar, in most instances. If the b-pillar collapses, only the cage (not the roll bar) is going to save your life, but that isn't very likely to happen. The only way to be 100% safe, however, is to stay off the track. And on the street, the cage/bar is a hazard to your safety. I think you are probably more likely to get hurt on the street with a cage/roll bar than you are on the track without one. In my case, I also couldn't give up my rear seat because my son sits there.

Alon - Sparco makes a nice harnes bar that bolts in. Harnes mounts behind seats and allows for proper spacing of harness belts. I installed in my 996, only to decide that I'm going to go racing so I'll hve to go wth rollbar/cage. PM me if you want to know more.

Thanks everyone for the great info. As far as Stable Energies, they are the ones who sold me that B-Pillar bar and I didn;t know that a C-Pillar bar even exists. I'll go and check. As far as the Sparco harness bar/guide, do you have any pictures and/or more information on it?

its basically exactly the same as the brey krauss harness GUIDE bar with two supports that connect to the lower front seatbelt mounting points. Doesn't look too sturdy compared to some others imo. Good luck getting one too, my local shop had me wait for 3 months onlyto tell me they havn't been made yet.

Are you talking about that Sparco bar, Dead-Eye? I saw it on line and it seems like what I was hoping to get.

yeah thats the one.

Was it JRP who you were dealing with?

nope, local shop. but i think JRP is the official distributor so it must have gone thru them at some point.

Yeah, probably. Most feel that they're totally useless. By the way, which wheels are you running on your car? Your Sig says light alloy turbo twists but I'm not sure that they're actually that light. I've been using turbo twists for my winter setup and I can really feel the weight.

yeah, JRP is a bit disorganized but they're great for japanese and parts for the "lesser" cars , especially if you go on their wholesale show days where they discount the wholesale prices. as for the rims, they'er the ones that look like imitation turbo rims, i heard that there are two kinds, normal ones and hollow spoke (lightweight ones). i'm not sure which i have since i bought the car used. in any case the style has worn off on me and i wanna change them down the road.

I don't believe that any turbo twists that fit the narrow body cars were ever hollow spoke. In fact, I don't even think that the 996TT has hollow spokes. I believe that these were only part of the 993TT and 993-based GT2. If you get some nice light wheels, you'll be amazed at the difference.

hehe, well then they've just been upped on the priority list.

Yeah, I weighed the rear winter wheels without tires and in 18x10, they weighed in at a pathetic 30 pounds+.

that's quite unimpressive. hell, all aftermarket rims are lighter than that.

Yeah, most are lighter. My summer wheels, the factory Carrera lightweights in 18x10 weigh in at 21.5 pounds.

Alon - You are up against a real hard place here. The 996 is NOT an easy car to get equipment in in any way, shape, or form. In fact, it is the hardest P-car I have ever fabricated for BY FAR. It is also not a car that has very good internal architecture for such equipment, both in terms of space, bolt point location, and the quality of said bolt points. The modernity of the electronic control devices also poses signifcant problems. I have installed racing seats, harnesses, and fabricated a bolt-in roll bar for 996s, and it was a TREMENDOUS challenge. I think you are going to have to decide that if you are going to keep this a street car, then that is what it will be, and that if you want to make it more track worthy, you will have to do away with some of your items like full back seat access, Bose doodads, etc. I also suggest you search this forum and also the DE/Racing forum archives for detailed info that likely exists. I have delt with these issues at all levels, from pure street to dual use to track to full race configuration. Dual use cars are always a compromise. 996s particularly so. I didn't read the whole thread, but I'm ready to help if you need it.

alon, give paul solaroli a call, i'm sure he could make you something.

Thanks. The Solaroli brothers are ok but I'd rather deal with proven, bolt-in goodies. I think that like many others, I'm trying to acieve the impossible, a daily driven street car with comforts and convenience while making it track-worthy. By no means am I planning to turn this car into a track-only car and I am not unrealistic with my expectations of what I achieve here, it's that I want more support in the stock sport seats and the right belts can help that. At the same time, I don't want to put myself at risk by choosing a potentially dangerous setup. Ideally, a harness bar with four point or six point, 2" wide belts would be what I'm trying to get.

I asked a similar question that got lots of answers. Hope it can help : https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-education-forum/98098-harness-and-harness-bar-for-daily-use.html

Holy cow. Long thread. What did you end up with boqueron?