How do you handle the guilt?

I just bought a 2000 996 C2 -- my first Porsche. It's eight years old and cost me less than buying a new BMW 3 series or Audi A4, but I still find myself reluctant to tell my friends that I'm driving a Porsche. .... I'm afraid they'll think I'm being a snob. So far, I've only told 2 friends -- both car guys -- and explained that it's not about acting like a snob or impressing anyone: it's just about driving the best car on the planet. Anyone else having the same issue??

I have it always in the back of my head and mostly refer to my car as a convertable or cab. But oyu are right my wifes X5 was more expensive than my 99 996.

Last summer I couldn't resist a beautiful day and drove it to see a customer. One of his employees looked out the window and yelled out "hey, look at what Peter is driving- I always knew you were rich" (which I am not by the way!). His boss cam to the window and his comment was "Well, I don't need one of those for my ego" Needless to say, I avoid driving my P-car to see customers since because like you, I bought it for me and I still have many people that I know that have no clue of what I drive other than the Acura they usually see.

Back in 95', I sold my Jetta to get my business off the ground. That and my wife working 6 days a week back then has given me the "I don't give a d#mn attitude about what other's think" per my choice of cars. That being said, I won't drive anything but our Durango to my clients to avoid loosing them as a client. Good luck! Mark

I think your personal mission should be to be at ease with it. It's like a lot of things in life, from cowboy boots to facial hair to dating a model: it's a statement some guys can pull off, and lots can't. Having the ability to do so is not about being able to afford the car; it's about how you wear it.

I had a client in rural Macungie, PA. It was an oil pipeline company and the people there were very "conservative." Anyway, they wanted to have some "face time" with the software development team so we decided to drive up from VA and work there for a week (laptops, monitors, printers, etc. in tow.) So we drove up and one team member drove his M3, another drove a pimped out Ford Excursion (with thousands of dollars in mods), another a new Lexus and I drove my 996 Cabriolet. These are all everyday cars in Northern Virginia but they caused quite a stir up in rural Macungie. The project manager told me that the client had commented that "we must pay you guys too much -- especially the guy with the Porsche" and "please tell the guy with the Porsche not to drive it here next time because some of the employees felt like he was 'showing off' and were offended." I was a bit offended that they singled me out for driving a Porsche but not wanting to make any waves, I decided to take my more conservative SUV up to Macungie the following week for the acceptance testing sessions. And wouldn't you know it the project manager came up to me and told me that he got another comment from the client "He has a Lexus RX330 too?! Now we know we are paying too much! He should stop showing off!" First of all, they do not pay me -- they pay my company and our hourly rates are very competitive. Secondly, we all joined the company pre-IPO and made a killing with the stock options (which eventually tanked when the bubble burst.) Some of us were lucky enough to get some toys out of it while others got screwed trying to come up with money to pay the AMT for the options they exercised right before the bubble burst (ouch!) Finally, I felt that it was a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation. I switched to the SUV because the Porsche caused such a stir and it made the situation worse. Next time I will rent a Hyundai from Thrifty.

This is topic that I've been dying to discuss. I'm glad to hear that other Porsche enthusiasts are facing this annoying issue. When living in Atlanta, my '85 951 was my daily driver (I still miss it). It was immaculate. But, my newly promoted supervisor who started reporting to me went to my boss to ask for a raise. He said that his pay must be too low because his boss was driving a Porsche. Fast forward to my Boxster S - We were living in Mandeville, LA and an 8 year old neighbor came over to play with my kids. As he ate lunch with us, he said that his mother believes I drive the Boxster to show off to all the neighbors. Most recently, I showed a picture of the 911 to a franchisee with my company. He is a muti-millionaire with a huge house and multiple cars. With an uncomfortble look on his face, he advised me to never show up at any functions with "that car." He explained that the perception of marketing guys like me is that we make too much money for too little work. With all this, I enjoy my Porsches with little inhibitions about driving them to work or playing with them over the weekend. No question, I hate that I expend one ounce of mental resource on this annoying topic by second guessing where I go and who sees me. But, perception is reality. And, where work is concerned, I'm a realist who acknowledges the need to manage perceptions. When asked about my Porsche by an obvious critic, I'm fully prepared to ask "that's a nice SUV. Was it expensive?" That always gives me the opportunity to say, "Well, you could have had one of these. My wife encouraged me to get one." That double-whammie usually gets their mental wheels turning. Thanks so much for letting me get all of that out of my system - you guys rock! Bob

Along the same lines, I never drive my Pcar on first dates; it sends the wrong message. Even though we all drive these cars as enthusiasts, there's lots of people that drive them as 'flash' cars and sadly, that perception has permeated society. Consequently, when hoping to meet a nice woman who cares more for the soul than the flash, you want to ensure that you're not increasing the likelihood of attracting a 'gold-digger'. Don't worry though. If she's a nice one, she learns about the car in the morning...ahem.

I have had 2 - 911's, the 996 at one time and my '87 turbo / Audi A6 together currently while my GM drives a small Nissan truck. Management cant help but see what I drive (small company and lot) and they always make comments like we pay you too much. If they only knew how little I pay........ On a side note; I had a girl who would not date me when my friend blurted out I drove the 996. She thought I had a major fault somewhere in my life. I spent most of the night at a party trying to convince her not. She never bought it.........

I'm a consultant in the auto industry and I drive mine everywhere. Some clients have commented on the car, but it's usually quite positive since it shows them that I'm a "car guy". There's been a few (usually the domestic car cos.) that will make a sarcastic comment that I should drive their products, my response is that if I had to own a example of every manufacturer I deal with, my garage would be the only roof over my head; I tell them that I chose a Porsche because they are not my client, so no conflict of interest. most of the time, people just can't believe I drive it in winter!

On the flip-side, last year I got a listing in a nearby town where there aren't too many porsches. After the home-owner signed the listing paperwork, she made a comment how she was glad she now has a real estate agent who can afford a Porsche. Of course, this is probably because she had been trying to sell her house for six months with no luck. Little did she know that my car cost less than her truck.

I don't tell anyone I own a Porsche and I still run into this problem. My clients would not understand, even though they all drive large SUVs as commuter vehicles that cost more than my 996. It's frustrating that people don't understand that I didn't buy the car as a status symbol--I bought it because it was the best $30k sports car I could find. Hell, if any sports car enthusiast deserves a P-car, it's ME, for putting up with ten years of gay jokes because I own a Miata. The 996 has taken it in the entire opposite direction and people now think that I'm showing off. Go figure...

I have the same problem too, and try to avoid bringing it up... My mother was with her colleagues over lunch and there was much discussion about somebody's new Camry. Everyone was quite enthused and asking lots of questions. Other people at the table then were talking about their new cars. It got my my mom and she commented that she's got the same old car, but her son picked up a new car. "What kind of car?" everyone asked. "A Porsche" she replied. Then there was silence... Even worse... my buddy has a car repair shop and busts his butt to make a living. He splurged a little to get himself an RSX-S. He has customers commenting on that being too flashy

When any of my clients made a comment about the 996, I'd simply reply, "You like my Karmen Ghia? They really have gotten more stylish over the years." Or simply refer to it as an upscale or glorified Volkswagen--but has the dependability of traditional VW's...and some VW's cost more than this one. That defused their comments and we got on with business.

Guilt?? I think not. Get over it.

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Oh, I'm with you, but that's easier said than done when the people you rely on for your income think you don't need the money. Until I stopped driving "boring" cars, I had no idea that people were so interested in my sports car hobby, but it sure perks their ears up when someone mentions "Porsche". Hell, even worse than that is that you're seemingly not allowed to pronounce the WORD properly in Iowa, lest they think you're a snob. I sometimes think I spend so much time on RL because I really only have one friend that "gets" it. He's currently Elise shopping, so hopefully we can be snobs together. Yeah, like anyone in Iowa will know what a Lotus is...

Jealous - Period I'm glad people talk about this because I have gone through every step of the feelings over the years. I started out 22 years ago sleeping in my car ($300 VW Bug) to driving porsches. I love the cars - period. I've worked extremely hard and have made the money to buy any car "I want" versus what society says I should have. I refuse to let anyone steal my joy or happiness, no matter if I have a rude clerk at a convenience store or a jerk cutting me off in traffic because he doesn't like the car. In short. I own the car - and I own it. I don't get a whole lot of grief over my car in the area I live, because a large share make more than I do, have bigger, better toys etc...it's life. But you drive into some of the suburbs and joe-shmo is struggling to pay college tuitions and braces for the three kids and they know that they would love to go for a weekend getaway in a porsche, but it will never happen. They are Jealous - period. Be thankful for what you have, but realize life is short and things in life change. What you have now, may not be what you have tomorrow. Enjoy it while you can and just smile when that guy gives you the disgusted look at the stop light. It will kill him even more.

I always give the same answer, 'it is a matter of priorities'.

I enjoyed reading the posts on this subject. I have not yet driven the car to a client's office however I have felt a societal change happen when I drive the different vehicles we own. Ie. Porsche at a red light.... favorable looks from the car next to me (girl or guy). Wife's Saturn Aura at a red light... somewhat favorable looks. My '04 Tahoe at red light...neutral looks (I am sitting way above them, which strangely enough I like, so i put this vehicle in the favorable feeling column). My 1997 Suburban with a snow plow on it at a red light... UNfavorable looks. It makes me think about how superficial people are. One time I was driving like I usually do in the Porsche or the Aura. I gave a tiny head nod and smile, to someone next to me.... then I realized I was in the Suburban. I laughed at myself for ME acting different! Amazing how what I drive affects the other person and it affects me too. Andy T

I found my 996 on eBay and it was in Philadelphia. I asked my best customer who lives in the area if he'd test drive it for me, so he was instrumental in my purchase decision. He never expressed any concern that I was making too much money from him. I make it a point to take customers out to lunch in the P-car, and most often insist that they drive and enjoy it too. I can't say I've had any negative comments, but my customer is in aerospace so they're into rockets and things that go fast. When I won a Hummer in a sales contest at work, every one of my customers felt like they owned a piece of it, as their purchases helped put tokens in the raffle. I take a group out to lunch monthly and each one of them has now driven it, and they love it. Feeling guilty for indulging in one of life's great pleasures isn't for me. Like many have expressed in this thread, I've worked hard to get to this point in my life where I can pay cash for one of these cars and drive it on a regular basis.

I work for the family healthcare business. Even though our clients (doctors and administrators) rarely get to see what I drive I do have the occasional meeting at their offices which are retail fronts for Internal Medicine and Family Practice physicians. Right now I'm daily in an 02 M5 looking for another 911 (993 or 996). It's cheaper than some clients Honda Pilots and Tahoes but I'm conflicted. I'd love to get another 911 but who knows what they would think then.

This is a cute thread and all, but the hater mentality that others have of you driving your 911 have been reciprocated in a sense by some of you here based on my readings. So I'm just saying, none of us are immune from being jealous and casting judgement on others by the things they drive, wear (ahem my old avatar), etc. It runs all along the same vein, fellas, so don't be too harsh on others cuz I know you "can relate". As for my car, I have no problems driving it to work, in front of clients, whatever and my car is damn flashy, flashier than 99% of the 911s out there. I just don't drive it cuz it's not comfortable to drive for work functions. First date? Hell yea I'll drive it. The world does not revolve around me or my car or my other worldly possessions.

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Wow, I actually agree with Ben... Is there snow in hell??

sounds like there is now M-Geezy!

This is especially funny for a Canadian. I always thought we had the market cornered on "Who do you think you are?" types, and that Americans were more likely to cheer on the successful capitalist. Maybe we're not so different.

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My boss frequently says to other co-workers: "Oh and he's driving a Porsche!" I always reply the same way: "Yes, but I didn't buy a $1m house at the peak of the real estate market."

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To which you might add, "... with the bank's money. So thanks for pushing the global economy into a recession. Hope the guy who buys your house in the foreclosure sale enjoys your heated three-car garage." Do I sound grumpy about the stock market? Naaaaahhhh....

Guilty? Just a little. It's funny what responses this car has generated, even from a friend who just purchased a the V10 Toureg(spelling?)--must have been more than my used 996. I even have had people ask the price while filling up at a gas station. Also have people wanting to race at stop signs. On the other hand, I told a very active 70+ year old friend of mine that I was looking at a 911. He told me that he has had 3, and each one has added 10 years to his life! I sent him a note and a photo with "10 years and counting" About 8 years ago my wife had the "2 years to live" talk with her doctor. Well after a few months at the Mayo (amazing, by the way) she is healthy and feeling great. We did, however, change priorities a little to have more fun now and save a little less for later . . .

I'm usually a passive observer on these foums but couldn't hold back on this one. I recently picked up my second 911, a 2003 C4S Tip so that my wife can experience the pure enjoyment of these cars I have never had a perception problem driving my 1980 SC. I find that owning an older model creates an impression of my being an enthusiast, or experiencing a midlife crisis. That doesn't necessarily apply with a late-model Porsche, and I agree that perception can be tough to deal with at times. If I choose to drive a high-end sports car and live in a tar-paper shack to be able to afford it, that's my personal decision. I have loved cars ever since I was a small kid and if I have the opportunity to own & drive a 911 while making ends meet, I am going to do so while I can. So would I visit clients with it? Not likely, since too many people associate cars with status, and my nature is to avoid offending others. But what I don't get is people who mistakenly assume that a 4 year-old Porsche is still much more expensive than a new family sedan. In fact, what I paid for my C4S (in Cdn $) is roughly equivalent to a new, loaded-up Camry or Accord - and I certainly wouldn't get attitude with either of those mainstream cars. The notion that someone who drives a Porsche isn't as "sensible" as the next person escapes me, especially since these cars were designed to be driven (hard) daily. When it comes to my cars, I just refuse to base my decisions on what others may think. Those who see a car simply as a necessary expense or means of transportation may buy whatever they like. Those of us for whom cars are a passion should be able to do the same. People who know me, know why I drive what I drive...I don't have time nor the patience to explain it to the rest. In the end, people will form their own opinions regardless of how the rationale is explained to them.

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Isn't that a software package the can do spreadsheets, database functions, and graphs?

Well, let me break it down on my case here bullet by bullet *i'm single, no kids, never been married *I live alone and can do whatever I want with my time for myself *I love cars *I'm insecure enough to want to look good, be cool, be well-liked by others (believe it or not ) *At the end of the day, I spent $67K on the 2002 c4s i bought about a year ago ($52K for car + $5K sales tax + $3.5K warranty + $6K wheels/tires) right out of the box *If i really wanted to pimp out, i could've gotten a lot of other cars out there for $67Gs out the door So yes, my 5-6 year old 911 is pricey esp if you compare it to a new car since the factory warranty cannot be bought esp a BMW factory warranty. but bottom line, i'm a sports car guy so i'll give up the new body, the new gizmos which i actually like and my 911 has none of, the blend of luxury and sport for a 911. gladly. if people didn't judge based simply on what they see and read what i wrote above, i'm sure no matter how flashy my car may be by seattle's standards (certainly no Miami or LA), they would be slightly more understanding why the 911 is so worth it for someone who values the things I do for my mobile transportation needs in my life at the moment. heck the car is just plain fun to drive. the sound of that flat6 is like nothing else out there. 911 people wave at you like you're in a club. people break necks. WOT is glorious esp with all windows down, sunroof open (yea yea cab guys i know). i'd go so far as to argue people who buy an E550 are the real "idiots" because that is a complete vanilla appliance of car that is absolutely NOT worth the sticker price which i'm guessing is $70K+. but you can show/tell people you drive a benzo. whoopdeedoo. GAME OVER

Here's a story for you: many years ago, I'd met a girl (who would later become a girlfriend, and is still a good friend) and she knew I had a Porsche (it was a red 944 back then). Anyway, the second or third time we got together was the evening after a track event, so that's what was on my mind... So I told her all about it and what it was like to drive on the track. Later, when we were really dating, she told me, "When I first met you, I figured you were some insecure *****, because of the car; but after I learned that you drive it on the track, I realized you were just a car guy who loves using machines the way they were designed." I try to educate people whenever I can. Having said that, occasionally there are still circumstances where I will choose to drive something like the minivan if I think people will be too quick to draw conclusions.

1st of all... mlt911sc_ You might have only 1 post, but that still doesn't exempt you for posting a pic of your car...Tim, you're REALLY slipping... On topic, 2 stories: 1) When I was a young up and coming exec., I was as judgemental as Ben talks about. I had a colague buy a 911. I saw him at the gym and he was so apologetic, explaining why he bought the car and how he didn't really pay all that much for it. I had a 10 year old beat up Celica w/100,000+ miles at the time and judged him twice; for getting the car AND for being apologic for it. Well, now I can understand why he was that way. 2) I was GM at another company and got called to the HR office because someone told them I was accepting sponsorship from a supplier. I asked who the supplier was because obviously the checks were being intercepted!! He didn't laugh. I told him that was BS and if he was worth a crap he'd put an investigator on it immediately to protect the ethics of the company and myself ! My CEO told him to lighten up! That I could drive whatever I wanted and if racing was my hobby, fine. That same CEO used to ask me about my racing every time he saw me and would brag to customers about it (obviously, he never saw me race ). Anyway, I agree w/the majority here, I find myself explaining why I bought my car or how old it is or how little I paid. I hate to do it but you know, I used to be judgemental about people with nice cars too!!

When people at work comment on the fact I drive a Porsche and must be rich, I point out to them that the majority of the new SUV's in the lot cost a lot more than I paid for my Porsche when I bought it. I further point out that today most new Honda Accords or their like are worth more than my Porsche on a trade in. That usually shuts them up. It is really nice though to drive what is basically a 9-10 year old car and have everyone think it is brand new. Try doing that with just about any other car make. Even a 10 year old BMW in good shape looks dated compared to a Porsche 996. Few non-Porsche owners can tell the difference between a 993-996-997.

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Happened yesterday. Friend of mine I haven't seen in a while saw my car parked outside for the first time on his way to the Superbowl party... thought it was my cousin's (he has a same color 993 C4S sans wing). But I'll be very clear here.. a stock '99 996 looks hella dated amber lights and all.

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To Rennlisters,? Absolutely. To my mother-in-law? Nope. If you showed her a picture of a $190k GT2 in black, she'd SWEAR that that was the car parked in my garage.

how old is your mother-in-law? the only sense of guilt i have and it's a big one is... to even drive a car is a blessing... to have the resources we have is a huge blessing... more than half the world doesn't even know where their next meal is coming from yet i'm on here blabbering and arguing over nothing... absolutely nothing. many families stress about gas prices while i'm here burning thru it like it's nothing just cuz i wanna go the long way back home. not to get too off topic since we are on a car forum, but do i feel guilty about someone else perceiving me diff cuz of this ride relative to the things above? NOT AT ALL.

now back to regularly scheduled programming... this looks like ****:

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I dunno...65 or so? If you're implying that she's the exception, not the rule, well...that's just not been my experience. Of course, here in the heartland, my C4 is either not noticed at all or the rarest car on earth, depending on who's looking. I have said in the past that my Miata gets more looks from the ladies around here than the 996, but it might just be because the top goes down. I've got NO personal guilt issues about my 996, just that my boss and most clients aren't "car guys" and sometimes see it as showing off, which I like to avoid since it could theoretically affect my salary. I guess you could say I've got "annoyance" issues, as it annoys the hell out of me that some people think my $33k (gasp!) nine-year-old car needs to be talked about.

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Looks like an early-'99 C4. I wouldn't say it looks like ****, but then, I do have a strange attraction to the "basic VW" look of the stripper 996s, kind of like the nostalgia I feel for early Miatas with steel wheels.

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So I'm not alone! I don't think the basic coupe looks better than the rest, necessarily, but it was my choice and I like the purity of it. I remember Excellence describing the C2 coupe as the 911 "... most resolved to its purpose."

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Exactly...Ben's picture reminds me of this:

i guess i need to drive an older 911 to see if i can learn to appreciate it or not cuz looks wise it does nothing for me other than... hey i'd better wave now!

I think that's really a question of taste. The amber lights and the early C4 wheels aside I think the "base" Carrera looks as attractive as the aero version. Someone (not me) could even argue that the aero parts disfigure the car and the "plastic" wing seems cheap like on a Honda.

That's the great thing about a Porsche. No end of interpretations, no end of personalization. Almost all of them turn my head, but mine, and the way I have it set up, just suits me. (Believe it or not, I actually prefer the pre-facelift 996!)

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+1 P-car guys know I have a plain-jane '99 996. Car guys know I have one of those 911's that looks like a Boxster from the front. But my wife, my mother-in-law, and most people on the street can't tell mine from Ben's. Sorry, Ben. That's just the way it is.

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i mean not to say my car's better than yours but damn i don't know about that... but maybe i do ... hair splitting. and about the aero... the aero bits absolutely make the car. i'd never own a non-aero 911. as for the honda civic comment... we 996 owners are not one to talk. the honda interior is arguably of greater quality than the 996 interior. i am supremely impressed esp by the new hondas in teh showroom. insanely forward thinking and cool. more so than the exterior.. dude the 996 interiors... WAHAHAHAHAHA needs serious options checklist help.

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I've always thought the taco wings looked ridiculous and I'm not sure I'll ever understand why it's so important that the sidemarker lights are clear instead of amber. I think the only reason people change out the amber lights is because it's incredibly easy and they're desperate to modify their car. That's it! Let me have it! Flame away!

straight on rear view i think the widebodies look good enough sans wing (e.g. 993 c4s, 996 c4s, 997S/4S) any other view, the car looks weak esp profile view since the **** sags y'all know by now i am a huge aerokit fan esp factory. if i could swing it, i'd most def add the full techart kit to say a 997Turbo with 20s on it lowered. that's like $15-20Gs right there.

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Kinda hurt my feelings, there, Ben.

LOL you of all people... incredulity on my part, sir bruce.

This is something that was always on my mind but never really discussed it. People ask why do you have 4 cars? Well, they are for different purposes. Sedan to see clients, truck to move things, SUV for wife and kids, 996 for fun. I thought about using the 996 for client visits and selling the sedan but the stigma 'we pay you too much' comes into play. Funny thing is first thing people ask is 'how much did you pay?' or 'how much is it worth?'. I usually reply with 'it's really fun and I just like cars'. Not to be cheaky but just to get more into talking about the car or cars instead of my situation or values of them. It seems to work because most guys like cars and car chat and I always follow up with what do you drive? Sometimes they shock me with something cool, then it starts to get into a fun conversation. Incident one time way back when I first bought my NSX, I was walking up to my car and turned off the alarm to get into my car and it chirped. A couple of guys were standing around it checking it out. One guy says 'couldn't afford the Ferrari huh?'. I just looked at him with the expression WTF? I had a couple other instances like this and realized it's pretty crazy what people think or say just based on a ride - I pretty much try to ignore it but love to talk to people if they strike up a good car conversation.

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Kidding, of course. Dude... it's me. I know my plain little 996 C2 has mad Porsche soul. And so do you... come on... admit it.... there is a small part of you that would love to roll low-profile, pick the Rolex Submariner over the Breitling, as it were. I bet when you've got a little grey hair and nothing left to prove, you'll be rockin' the Brioni over whatever glittery clubwear they're selling on Rodeo Drive. Subtle is the new black.

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hmmm a glimmer of hope that someone can relate with me here... -Just got a Rolex GMT II ceramic in stainless over a Breitling bentley but i do want to get a breitling for certain occassions with leather strap (i love watches and the submariner is too boring, the ceramic gmt2 wears bigger and is shinier and is overall just better made) *the only other watch i own of merit is a speedmaster pro with sapphire back which i've always wanted since i saw apollo13 -Just ordered another suit in charcoal black with peak lapels, slimmer cut with maybe three shirts with a spread collar, french cuffs -i do wear a whitegold/diamond chain -i love Nike and would wear track suits all day if i could -someone let me drive a 964 as i've never driven anything older than a 993 TT/C4S; i really like the "dated" errr timeless 993 interior esp the gauges. very old school. again bling with limits aka Balanced Bling by Ben

Good topic and while I am not a 996 owner I have a few P-cars. I decided long ago the wealth slope is very dynamic and at any point on the curve someone has more and someone has less which for me is OK. One interesting observation I have made is how many "older" Porsche's are being used as daily drivers. Within the 911 family the model changes have been slight over the years so a non enthusiast cannot distinguish a 78 sc from an car 25+ years newer. That being said a tremendous argument can be made for how affordable these cars are with a useful life of say 40+ years. What really makes me chuckle is that my truck cost as much as many sedans and nips on the heals of some Porsche models. A dear friend of mine introduced me to the mantra: stop living start doing..... and since then I drive whichever car I feel like whenever I feel like it. and yes I have clients and employees

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We had a similar issue when we got our C4S. ...didn't want to tell anyone or take it out during the daytime for similar reasons you noted above. Eventually it will set in and you will feel comfortable with it. I believe once you do, your neighbors/friends/family will feel comfortable thinking of you as a snob as well... j/k!

i think it's all about the person. for example, when someone drives by you say in a ferrari enzo, you know the car, but you look right at the person. you wanna see who's driving that pos? when i see an older gentleman in a nice ride like above, i'm like that's awesome play on playa you got great taste, flaunt it. now say i saw a high school kid in a ferrari F430 i'll be like, your daddy must really like you to either let you drive his car, or buy you that car, but i will give him props regardless as the car is awesome. i remember, actively try to figure out who's driving it. i'm sure you guys can relate. so yea, i tend to have my music up and hat backwards cuz when i'm driving this thing i like to drive it when i can kick back and relax. i don't like so much driving it for work functions cuz i'm just focused, on point to get the job done and usually wearing different clothes, but perhaps same music. so people perceive me diff.. they don't know me and that's just fine and dandy.

i stopped apologizing for my just rewards due to my own hard work a long time ago. bought my first p-car ( 87 911 )13yrs. ago. am currently driving a 2000 996.

I get various comments from various people. Many of my 'collegues' know i track my Porsches and totally get it about me loving the mark (no cue button...yes tim.....still...my left shift key is out too now, so i'm giving up on most of my capitals too...ughhh) and the history and general feel of these cars, not to mention the club atmosphere and cameroderie (sp?). When i got my 4S...one of my friends says....'everyone is wondering how you got this car'....i'm the first to say i got a slammin deal, and it's the only car i own now as opposed to 3 last year. sold my '85 targa as it was not getting out anymore, and when i turned in the 3 series at the lease end...i didn't bother getting another car. So....i'm way ahead of the game financially, especially with no lease anymore. people tend to get that....it's simple math especially when you factor in insurance. i have pictures of me on the racetrack hanging in my office...clients ALWAYS comment on them...and ask...'is that your car?' and i proudly answer yes...but that i recently sold the car. also, when i get retained...there is a clause that advises them about my representations. in simple language, i advise them 'i've made no promises as to the outcome of your case....i cannot tell the future....but if i could...i'd play mega millions once...just once, and fix cars for a living' they all love that...and then they get that i'm an enthusiast and not just a flashy snob. it's the truth...i simply just love porsches and what they mean...and all they signify. i've never bonded with any other car the way i do with the porsches. a very special breed. i would imagine f cars and other super exotics are very similar. j

^^should we start a rennlist donation thread to buy JBRipps a new keyboard?

I don't care what people think. Really half the people that comment are useless ****s anyways. In life there are followers and leaders, then there are the ones that just don't give a **** and do what they want.

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Testify, my Canadian brother.

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Arnee....i hope you collect a lot...it's my laptop...not an easy fix, but i guess i really should get a new one at some point. it's the backing up that i dread. if it was simply a keyboard for a desktop...no problem there. Sooooo...start collecting. THANKS! HAHA.

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DOH!!! An entire laptop!

Hey everyone - I must say i have really enjoyed reading this thread! I am glad to hear everyones views on this as i just bought my first Porsche this weekend Bottom line is there is no better car in the world for $30K, which is what i paid for my 99 C4 with 74K miles. After having it for 2 days i have really had only posative responses, but do find myself having to explain it as being cheaper then what others are driving. I work in a small office so everyone knew it was coming, then the boss asked the question, "how much was it?". Definitely caught him off guard when he found out it was the same as he paid for his "PT" edition Chrysler minivan As others mentioned before - its all about priorities and as long as you have yours in order, who cares what they think. I'm just gonna nod, smile and enjoy my car!

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Yeah Arnee, I have already given Jon q uite a bit of **** about his Q key and told him to spend $25 and get a new keyboard. Later he told me it was a laptop. Now the shift key has q uit working! There used to be a guy on the Forum that had intermittant trouble with his shift key. For a while, a lOt oF hiS wOrDs wOuLd coMe loOkiNg soMEthInG sImiLAr tO tHis, whIcH mAdE hIs pOsTs rEaLlY dIFfiCuLtrd to rEaD.

nice thread... but y'all made me sad knowing that i could have bought a 996 C4S for the same price i paid for the denali.... i wish i woulda ran across you guys last year.... so true, so true... the yukon/ tahoe is a dime a dozen 'round here... no issues... (people don't differntiate between a denali or bone stock base model yukon, it's all the same unless u drivin' a ben choi style pimped out escalade)... but if i rolled up in an bone stock '02 C2, my boss'd be like WTF? we had that at my old work... senior mgmt was old school conservative and for some reason all these young kids we were hiring were rolling outrageous rides (IMO)... straight out of undergrad there was: MB E350 on 3piece Brabus BMW X5 4.4 986 Boxster S (blah... but worth the mention) E46 M3 BMW 530 BMW 6 series keep in mind these kids were like 22-23 yrs old... we were prob payin them about $50-55Kish a year... crazy kids now days... and there i was pimpin my '99 4Runner with 170,000 miles... so i guess i see both sides of the coin...

I was thinking about this on the way home... What if you had a nice 356 speedster in the garage, and on a nice spring day you took that out to the clients' office or worksite? Think they'd give you the same rash of **** about bringing over a flashy car? Think they'd even know what it is?

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Just tell them it's a Karmann Gia

My point exactly! FWIW, my old red 944 got the most "flashy" comments and the most stares driving down the street. And that was a pretty nice car at $4,200! (less than Ben's wheels!)

Really enjoying the thread! I didn't mind driving it to work when there were 2-3 others in the lot, but the new job has a different demographic. One lonely 'vette in the lot, everything else is a familymobile. When in Rome... so I drive the Acura.

Wow: Great topic. I fear telling the people at work, of course you know that leads to many more questions. How, Why, and How can YOU afford that? I just blame it on a "Mid Life Chrisis" it seems to work! 99C2

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+ eleventy billion! RockOn! I'll bet no one comments when you drive it tho, cause they see you look like you give people vicious dropkicks to the spinal column as a profession

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Hey! I know what a Lotus is! Where are you? Your avatar looks like Clive or West Des Moines... You should look into the the CornballRun. I get stupid comments from time to time but they are evened out by the people who are really into the car. I was getting gas last summer and there was a guy working at the station emptying the garbage. He came over and started asking about the car. After a little talking, my tank was full and he asked if he could go for a ride. My first thought was that I was going to end up in a shallow grave in the woods but figured that, since he was on the clock, that was probably not part of some master plan. So I said if he cleared it with his boss, I'd take him for a spin. He was speechless. Totally makes up for the douchebags.

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As the pychologists say, "Your'e in Denali."

in my industry the bigger and more expensive the car the more credibility ...... if you don't show the "wealth" they might not hire you! Ofcourse most of them don't know that my "wealth" is a almost 9 year old convert! and I like to keep it that way.....

sometimes i am tempted to go after a new body benzo or bimmer fully kitted out ac schnitzer, kleeman, lorinser, hamann, whatever slammed on bedazzled wheels ... but i question whether i'll enjoy driving it as much as the 911.

Frankly, the real irony is all the people driving around in SUVs that cost in the mid 50s, get crap mileage, hold no more people than a station wagon or mini-van, drive pretty atrociously, weight a ton, and frankly all look more or less the same depending on the amount of bling. The real question is why do people drive 'those' things when a station wagon drives better and operates more efficiently. It's these SUV yahoos that REALLY have the image problem. In my opinion, there's nothing cool about being fat, heavy, and slow.

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Garmin Kia - a GPS system available only in crappy Korean cars. (It's Ghia, fyi.)

Not an active poster but couldn't resist... Yes it can be perceived as 'snobism' but I think it's the driver's/owner's attitude that makes the whole difference. I always go see my clients with the Porsche, as I work in the automotive industry with car dealers but I don't park on purpose right in front of their office so I can be seen. I get all kinds of feedback, positive or not, and sometimes even sarcasm, but when you have the right attitude... Famous liners: 1- The title of my post; 2- It's not mine, the bank let's me drive it; 3- Here you go (open the passenger's door), let's go for a quick spin! Be proud of what you drive! It's just a shame that we have to justify our passion... Oh and BTW, here's a pic of my 99 C2 Turbo Look convertible before I get flammed! (old pic, now with clear lights!)

You could always try to be a bit more warm & fuzzy: - Are you so small that car ownership is a threat? - Oh....I'm sorry, you're confusing me with someone who gives a damn about what you think. - I guess if you actually knew anything, you wouldn't be saying that. ...there's probably more....

I only bought the car so everyone would think I was a snob.

I get the comments sometimes from co-workers however they all know my passions and understand that my priorities are vastly different from their own, these comments really don't bother me much. However, I do tend to get embarassed/guilty around my in-laws and try to stay away from topics having anything to do with posessions. My mother in law is disabled, doesn't work and is on government assistance and while we do contribute quite a bit towards helping her, I still can't help but feel bad when I'm around them for everything that I've got when I see what she has to go without. Andy

Read this thread: Porsche Envy

lol nice thread link. i like the quote: "be humble, but never apologize for it". if they don't like it? f**k em. havn't ran into that problem in a long time tho cause in Toronto a stock 996 in silver gets zero attention. and if you've got mods..well..then they know ur serious about cars. win win. Worst than strangers though are sometimes your best friends who keep using it as a peg leg to act as if they're baller or something even though they drive cars that are perfectly fine of their own accord" - No i will not bring my car and park it infront of your all night house kegger with you're buddy's beemer and STi just so that you can "ball out of control". - No you cannot borrow it to show off for your date....unless she has a hot sister for me. - Please stop bringing it up in every automotive discussion, it isn't necessary dammit and makes you look like a putz and me by association. - Stop showing off my car more than i do. - You cannot drive it till you can learn to shift a 6speed without grinding every god damned shift. -

I get crap from just about everyone with my '02 that I bought used. I drove the car to one of my clients in a small office for the first time and got in the office early before anyone else. I was working in the back office and as people came in they kept on saying things each other about who got the Porsche, I finally spoke up and said it was mine, and then they said they paid me to much. Later that day the office manager called me and said that everyone was telling the president of the company that they were paying me to much and he said, "He works hard for his f#$*ing money, good for him!" A couple of car buddies saw me at the race track with the car for the first time and started giving me crap, and he asked, "Honeslty, how many people give you crap for driving this thing? We're all just jealous" Bottom line for me is that I bought this car as a daily driver after driving for years in a 20 year old car. And like others have said, my '02 cost me less than others at my job who drive high end Mercedes and Lexus'.

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Heh thanks for the spelling correction. Those are warm and fuzzy alright! I agree with everyone and with the quote "Be humble but never apologize for it"

I had some co-workers that went out to check out my car after I got it. I let them sit in it and they asked how much I paid for it. I told them 3k more than that guy paid for his Scion Tc! (although he does get ~5mpg better than me!) I let anyone drive it that can drive manual and they know I am excited about cars. Also no kids. Everyone at work my age that has kids has no money.

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True, thankfully. I am invisible. But folks need to confront the truth about this: It's not what you spent on the car. It's the statement people think you intend to make with it. It's like clothing in this sense... you see a guy in a suit, or a guy in a hoodie with baggy pants and Timberland boots, you're not really thinking about what they spent on their clothes. You're thinking about what they're trying to tell you. Porsche is very unique that way, as a brand. When we do research with consumers on any product, Porsche comes up all the time in projective exercises where people are trying to put their finger on arrogance in a brand's character, and it's one of a small handful of car brands that do. Blame Arnie Becker.

at the risk of making my ignorance known to the entire community, who is arnie becker? also..how the hell is it that Porsche is associated with arrogance, but ferrari and lambo's arn't. Is it just the fact that there are more porsche's out there for people to pick on?

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My thoughts exactly.......................

Those things can pull a pcar sitting on a trailer. That's about the only reason I have one of those things. Sure, I would really prefer an S6 wagon but it can't tow.

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Ankeny, actually, but you're forgiven for thinking all the suburbs look alike. Are you in the area? First I've heard of it, but the website makes it sound pretty fun. Maybe I'll give it a whirl... Yeah, it is funny how you run into enthusiasts at random places. It does make up for the idiots that don't "get" it. I stopped at a buddy's house one day after work last summer and the neighbors started coming out of the woodwork wanting to examine every inch of the car. I let 'em...

I've read through this entire thread and am amazed at how much grief posters have received for driving a p-car. My 996 is my 3rd Porsche and I've heard very few negative comments over the years. Of course, I don't know what's been said behind my back, but it doesn't seem like I'm getting the same treatment as many of you. Am I the only one?

Guilt? Get rid of it. Unless you stole it, you probably deserve it. You and I and everyone who comes up to you and tries to make you feel guilty about such a possession is 99.9999% richer than most people living today or years past. The reality is that even the poorest person in your town is so much better off than any average person living in a 3rd world country. Any person that comes up to you and tries to make you feel bad about your choices, has no clue or proper perspective. When the average income outside the USA is so fractional compared to our average income, any critical judgement from anyone here in the USA pales in comparison to what's going on everywhere else. Their critical judgement is really coming from their own inadequacies, and they are trying to pass it on to you. It is a shame that we live in such a country of opportunities and a vast amount of our citizens do not take advantage of such an opportunity, and therefore look for ways to make others feel as miserable as they do, martyrdom. Your only response to any comments to such choices should be to offer them a fun ride and try to give back as much as possible in other ways. To become defensive is a waste of time and proves their point. My 2 cents

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To your second question, there's no rational answer. It's a cultural thing. Some brands become useful metaphors, others do not. To your first question, Arnie Becker was a character on a top rated 80s TV show called LA Law. To a lot of people in the mass market, this was one of the first exposures to a Porsche as a status and power symbol rather than a fringe sports car. The character was a philandering, arrogant ***** with deep insecurities that he hid behind a carefully contrived image. Became a meme.

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Arnie sounds like a cool guy!

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Iowa City I have a friend in Ankeny with a Copperhead edition Viper. You may see him driving around...

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Here he is, the Benjamin Choi of the '80s. Can't find a picture of him with his car, a white turbo cab, but you get the idea. He played a divorce lawyer. If you want a poster boy for giving 911s a bad name, you could do worse than start here...

WHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAHAHA

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Seriously. We all secretly wanted to be like him. He had one of those aluminum briefcases, and an office chair by Recaro. Hot women, a crib straight out of Architectural Digest, fly ride, the whole thing. I miss the 80s...

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Haven't seen it, but I'm usually looking for the P-cars. I "tried on" a Viper again at the auto show in Detroit and once again determined that I probably wouldn't fit...

Interesting follow-up to my original post: I finally told my my (female) employer about my 996. She's really into "oogah-boogah" and burns a "Power Candle" at her desk. Far from being critical, she's really into the fact that I finally got my dream Porsche: She thinks it's a sure sign that money is starting to flow into the company!!!

for those feeling guilty, here's what i'd watch to throw all that G-**** out the window http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGyZcCfnYt0

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here's a celebrity who has style that i like: i absolutely love that suit he got on there - this is ozwald boateng himself suiting up foxx pre-oscar nite where he won best actor for playing mr. charles in "Ray" - what a talent. the guy can sing, act, and make you laugh your **** off. good dude, too. takes care of his grandma like no other and some other family members too...beautiful thing. i rarely go gah gah over celebrities.. but if i saw mr. foxx in a bar, grocery shopping, out in public, i'd most definitely approach him to shake his hand and give him props.

I grew up around Porsches because my dad had a 356C when I was born and later owned a long hood 911. As far as I was concerned, I'd own one someday. Well, someday has been here for 3 1/2 years now and my wife and I proudly own and drive three Porsches. I personally couldn't care less what anybody might think of my choice in cars. It's none of their business. My '84 is my sentimental baby - my first one - and isn't going anywhere. The 996 is my daily driver and occasional track car for DE's. My wife's daily driver is the Cayman. These are all incredible driving machines and we own them because we love the marque, not because we want to show off. If some people don't know or understand that, I don't care. However, I can understand it if guys here work with "clients" and don't want to be seen as having too much money and being show-offs. That just doesn't happen to be my situation.

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"Salesmen: pretending to be something they're not since 1978"

I don't really care if people hate on me when I drive my P-car. I usually drive my TSX because I don't like getting my P-car dirty....and dinged up at the garage at the office. I just love the fact that I am young with Money RIDES. I always wanted to own a 996 before I was 30 and i did that 2 years ago..and i did that at the age of 25 with cash. I got the eclipse DVD player to accentuate the WoW factor as well. I get a kick when I see older people look at me at amazement when I drive next to them and hear me blasting my Notorious BIG...with a wife-beater on. Now the next car will be an Aston Martin Vantage before I am thirty......after I invest in a few more foreclosed homes in Northern Virginia. The Car does not define the person........its the person that defines the car......I know so many other people that are douches with nicer cars than me...and they don't get the same respect with bitches...and overall. So get out there and be a badass in all aspects of life....and let haters, hate on.....you know you are doing something right when people do.

Great topic for seeing different perspectives. My wife has an '00 BoxsterS and I have an '02 C4S. We both work hard, live in a tiny house and have no kids. My daily driver is a '94 Subaru SVX (I love that car) and she drives a '98 F150, both bought used, so we spent quite a few years without a car payment. A couple of guys at work have ribbed me a little. I just tell them "It's all about having fun. If I could have bought a Hyundai with that kind of performance, I would have". The most unexpected reaction was from a guy who I have known since we were little kids, who I consider one of my best friends. When we drove from RI to NJ to go to his kids birthday party, he didn't even come out front and look at the car when the rest of the gang did. I could tell he had his nose out of joint. I wanted to tell him, "Dude, you work on and off, never bought a house, have two kids; you made your choices". I just kept quiet and finally got him to check it out with "It's lots of fun". As an aside, I know this was also much discussed, if I have a friend who isn't a bone-head and knows how to drive a standard, they are welcome to try the C4S. I feel it is part of my responsibility to spread "the gospel according to Porsche".

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Call me a little slow, but...I don't get it. Not really sure if that was directed at me or just a fun observation of the salesman-type. Personally, I work as a pilot - I couldn't sell anything if my life depended on it.

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Not at all, just a joke about the number of us (myself included) that seemingly have to pretend that we don't like fancy cars for fear that the income that allows us to drive such cars might diminish because of said car. Or something like that. Happy flying!

I live in a town of 15000 in rural Missouri; you can imagine how many P-cars are around, 3 including mine. One is a Boxster and the other a Cayman, mine being a 2000 C2 Aero. When I first purchased this car I would get anxious when I took it out into public. I wouldn’t have panic attacks but my stress level would most definitely increase. Just do to the fact that I didn’t want to seem like I was better than thou. I am self conscious and didn’t want to give off the impression that I was better than anyone else just because I drove a Porsche. After about 4 months of ownership I couldn't care less about the stares and the questions. I came to the realization that it’s just a material possession and that I shouldn’t feel guilty that I own it. I am also young, just turned 30 but look like I am 18, which garners even more stares. People probably think that its daddies car. Oh well, no skin off my back. At the end of the day the only stares and questions you must deal with are the ones from you. It’s just a car and I am just a guy.

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Post a pic That's like freaky. And guys, the expression is "couldn't care less" as in you're so not caring about it, you have no more care to possibly give. If you "could care less", then yea you could.

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Don't laugh!

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No, post a pic that's recent. j/k Yea you do look young. I have the same deal going on. Ride out, baby boy.

Guilt? I worked my *** off to afford my CPO 996. Those that give me grief - and there are those folks that that try - can kiss my butt. I like to point out that their Accuras and Lexus (Lexi?) cost as much as my UberCar. I got your guilt right here, pal.

I have a Rolex too, just to make them really crazy.

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Yea they're great watches. Very conservative. I got that GMT II ceramic. I wish it wore a little bigger. Other than that no complaints. They hold their value better than the Porsche!

I've been an observer for a while and have a unique situation. Recently I lived in New Jersey and worked at the North American Headquarters for a German car company. Since i was a contractor I wasn't able to utilize the employee purchase program so I would drive my 2003 C4S or a 560SEC that I kept in pristine shape. A number of employees asked me why I didn't drive a _ _ _ and I told them there was nothing in their lineup that I felt matched the performance and exiliration of my Porsche (or the S Class Coupe for that matter). I found it funny that a number of them on the side said when I got ready to sell either car, to give them a call. Now I live north of San Diego and don't have to put up with the talking behind my back.

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you forgot to put the "new girl" next to him in the pic... hahaha.... ben, you have the greatest reputation on here and i think its great that you dont give a f#ck... good for you

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A haircut would fix the problem.

I'm a commercial real estate agent and most of my clients don't have a problem. I think most of them want to do business with people who are successful. Most people wouldn't list a property with me if I drove up in a clunker! I also drive a Dakota pickup on bad days and find that other drivers are nicer to me when I'm in the Porsche. Women smile, people let me in line, it's really quite nice.

wasn't there a poll done a few years back for a German magazine that reported Porsche drivers get laid the least out of all car owners and BMW drivers get the most?

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[re: Avatar] A Festivus for the Restofus! December 23!!!

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BMW drivers are all 16-25 something year old unmarried yuppies who drink coffee's with unpronounceable names, spend more money on wallets than on their mortgage and can't stand next to a fireplace or their hair will explode. Porsche drivers are usually married, 35+ year olds with 2.3 children, 401K's worth more than a Monet painting and hire BMW drivers to pick up their dry cleaning. Which would you rather be

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You know, I've actually noticed that myself. When I'm on, say, I-80, traffic is usually more apt to move over for me in the Porsche versus any of my other cars. Of course, the other day a couple of teenagers in a beater flipped me off at a stoplight as they drove by, so I guess I'm back to square 1.

^ meh...teenagers these days are wastes of oxygen and barely deserve to live. Personally I blame MTV and Hippies.

I'm a fairly defensive driver, and love the look of surprise when I let someone in line, or waive them into an intersection at a stop sign. I also find it hilarious that people on the highway, no matter what they drive, find it necessary to pass the p-car. In the year I've owned the 996, I have never felt guilt. However, I do on occasion, like others have written, justify the car to clients. Mostly, I tell them that it was cheaper than a new Passat, and that when my wife turned forty, I took on her burden to have the mid-life crisis. Stefan

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way to kick a guy when he's down the guy steps up to prove his point that he looks younger than his age - i respect anyone who backs up his talk more than half you guys on this board would envy the very fact that he's got a full head o' hair. tough crowd

I’ve had customers make comments about the cost of our services and the fact that I own a Porsche in the same sentence. I tell them that our prices are competitive and that I’m not just good at managing my company’s money.

0% guilt with the Porsches. Never a doubt in my mind, they are resonable priced daily performance car, why would anyone feel guilty about owning one? I have not figured out how to deal with the guilt on the f-car yet.

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get over it dude. seriously. start feeling guilty if you're rolling a new scuderia.

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Wouldn't happen, can't get it. Not even a money issue.

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Properly noted and remedied, Ben. Thanks. I wasn't thinking clearly when I typed that message late last night.

Ben, like your profile pic..is that a typical fridaynite at your crib. Back to Porsche envy. I drive mine to work once a week. The first reaction is usually, wow you make too much money, or the porcupine and Porsche joke. My reaction was to slowly corrupt them. It took a year, but I've convinced two others (one male and one female) to drink the coolaid and buy a Porsche. Now there are three of us who's end goal is to have the entire company parking lot full of Porsches. Fortunatly it's a small company.

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these are my thoughts _exactly_ any 911 is easy for me to excuse, especially if it isnt brand brand new, but part of me doesn't want employees or investors or certain agencies seeing me in ferrari or lambo or bentley or other perceived "status" marque. at least with employees it might in some way serve to stoke their aspirations, however with LPs, c'mon, no. well maybe if it's black... no that's still a no. I think I could get away with a "classic" like a 328 or a miura, but I'd feel as self conscious around investors in a 348 or 355 as I think I would in an Enzo. Of course a Diablo might get me some sympathy since I'd be asking for jumpstarts and tows everywhere I went. I really feel most of the "guilt" factor may have to do with the socioeconomic dynamics of the areas in which different members live. in my two domiciles, Porsches are as common as mercedes might be in say, des moines, and may even reflect a more "conservative" nature by comparison to ones peers. That doesn't mean there isn't money in des moines, but social perspectives on consumption would be different than NY/LA/Miami/etc. where free spending is de rigeur, and flash often celebrated. Another factor is age. I'm relatively young, so I don't think people take my perceived excesses as seriously as they would a family man's. In fact I get a lot of vicarious cheering.

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Ok gramps.

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It's a common thing. It's misused everywhere, but we all get the point.

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Yea it's never a money issue.

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Yea these girls handle the keys

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Touche. (I would've included the accent aigu over the 'e', but I don't know how to generate that symbol on this system. It was easy with my typewriter. You'd just type the 'e' and then push the carriage back one space and type the accent. Blast and tarnation on these on newfangled computer things.)

K, just saw Choi's new Avatar. Can't figure it out though, they let you take pics at a whorehouse?

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Could you post a larger picture? I really can't see much and I like pics of girlies.

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+1

Be careful what you ask for. That may be less attractive up close. Right now, your imagination is filling in all the details.

I have a headache from reading all these posts! I think there are times when it's a little wrong to show up in a Porsche. That's when I drive one of my Hondas (Going to fight a speeding ticket in a seedy area is one example). Otherwise, I drive my 911 all over, and never think "I don't deserve to be driving this car"! No guilt at all, especially since it cost me less than most ANY new Lexus or Infinity, or Cadillac! That said, I NEVER call it a "Por-sha" - THAT would make me feel like a snob!

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You mean like this?

Exactly! Excuse me, I have to go throw up now.

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nah, if it was, we would've seen your mom in the middle seat

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Just like you imagined imdrew with a shorter haircut.

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Right. I took a shot, so now I'm gay . C'mon Ben, you're much smarter than that. Hit me with something creative .

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Ben c'mon, you can do better than that. Besides, I'm not sure what the point is of putting a few girls we can't even see in your Avatar on a Porsche forum. At least it was a pic of you in your previous (cheezy) avatar. Further shows how clueless you are!!

Hey, Rennlisters, I've just helped identify two. WHAHAHAHA

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Jesus didn't cut his hair, and he turned out OK. Oh wait, never mind.

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That's where I draw the line--I may not drive my Porsch-uh to a client's office, but I'm not going to purposely mispronounce the word in an effort to make people think I don't know what one is. Strangely enough, a similar topic came up today. Several customers were discussing the Presidential race and kept bitching about "rich people that drive Porsches" making all the decisions. I had to bite most of the way through my tongue, but I did pronounce the word correctly as I casually mentioned that I didn't think that rich people in Porsc-uhs were the problem. How do you pronounce Renault?

No Guilt....none whatsoever... However, if I ever start to get anxious about where I left her parked... I just drive by Coconut Grove and Sunset to check out the guys that leave their convertibles (Porsches, Astons, Jags, etc.) with their top down on the sidewalks....windows down too...they surely don't care...that set's me straight....

My hairsytlist had a red Miata and he was gay. I'm sure it was just a coincidence.

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I love Miami. I was at the Delano Hotel last Tues. Saw a Phantom roll by and a red F430 driven by a young dude. Sounded fuqin siq. The scenery at Delano was great, too. Definitely had a blast there just chillin'.

11 pages of "guilt" You people need therapy! Prozac! something!!

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Gosh, I wish I had your life. That sounds so hip and cool.

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Ben, what do you do for a living if you don't mind me asking?

I'm just a $ale$man

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Could be, but a lot of hair stylists are gay.

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You're straight pimpin aren't you? Or Pharmaceuticals?

Only outside of work do I even begin to try. LOL I'm really not that flashy of a guy. With that said, I do have fun with the finer things in life while at the same time understand that it means nothing without being a good person with good people around you. pharma doesn't pay. that industry is going down (for now). and i can't relate to the product since i don't take any pharmas (for now).

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I'm sorry, I am of the curious kind. Is this you, and if so what is your secret?

^ roofies

LOL yea that's me. I see you got that off of Zoodango. I'm definitely not hiding behind the keyboard here or elsewhere. Fun fact: James Sun who is the CEO of Zoodango who also appeared on The Apprentice is an acquaintance of mine. Good guy. That picture was taken at the tables by the fire pit at Pure LV on a Saturday nite. Good times.

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Yep, Zoodango. I won't post anything else personal. I just wanted to know a little bit more about our friend Ben.

imdrew, just private message me if you want to know more. I got no problems sharing 1:1 so long as if we take it there, we're both mutually respectful of our privacy especially since I put myself out there a lot more than most on here.

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No guilt. Work hard. Always wanted one. Have two. I like them because I like to drive. When I first went to the track I felt like I instantly belonged. I normally drive the truck to work as we have a bit of a dust problem. Might get hit with the heavy equipment that rolls around during the day too. What you drive really doesn't make you who you are. Customers want to deal with successful people because it shows other people believe in your knowledge and skills.

Guilt is useless and self serving. Remember when you are guilty it is YOU that feels BAD with no guarantee that anyone esle gives a S#!T. Live well. Encourage others to live well. Be judicious with whom and how you share your success. Some would seek to harm you b/c of it. Life is short Drive a Porsche....or a Ferrari

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Is that my boy Ben? If it is, I admit it, he is a ****ing PIMP!!! You go Choi!!

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Why? Those girls look miserable. "Hey ladies, my name is Ben. I'm a model stringer for an ad consultant. Let's get a group shot here so I can shop you around. Just write your names down here, and smile..."

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So many haters. Hey Ben, when you coming to NYC?

I have never felt "guilty" but certainly conscious about the 3 p-cars that I have owned over the years. My current (soon to be past) boss always mentioned the p-car whenever money came up and I suppose I understand the perception of elitism and/or wealth. Funny thing is that she knows how much I make and that isnt all that much so it was a silly perception on her part. When peers hear about or see me with the car they invariably comment on it. My answer is always the same and seems to satisfy most: "I bought it used for less than half the original price and I do almost all maintenance myself so the cost of ownership is really low. Your mid-tier well-appointed sedan costs about the same. Besides, if I am gonna work 11 hours a day I want to enjoy te ride to and fro." Then I go on to explain that I have raced vintage HSR and instruct for a number of car clubs and that I am a true car nut. Love to wrench as well.

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NYC with Benjamin Choi and riad? I'd pay to see that. Like some kind of coolness cage match.

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Don't tell Riad's wife!

I have this poster above my desk in my office to explain the car. And that is what I do when I need to relax in the middle of a bad day.

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Ben....I was there recently...serious scene. The drapes are so Miami Vice. We ate at the Blue Door, which is in that hotel. Very good meal, very sceny. The back pool area is off the hook...lol. We stayed at the Clinton...cool little hotel with leather and lace as it's theme. Also ate at another hot place called Tantra a few years back...not sure if it's open still. Totally cheesy overpriced place that played the movie KAMA SUTRA on a screen that hung on the main wall in the restaurant.... jbiggie

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Seems like everyone is judging nowadays...just drive ur car and enjoy. As long as you are happy, let em' judge.

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Nah, I'm usually in bed by 10... how cool is that? I think she'll notice the hookers.

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i can follow the pecking order, rennlist protocol here. i dont' care get into no cage against the legend that is riad my cousin works for the UN in NYC - been meaning to make a visit, but avoiding winter time at all costs.

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my boy j-beezy checking out all the south beach breezies siq siq ambiance - i love it. BOSS. Rick Ross. i'm the fuqin' future sucka what you can't see the facts?

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Not only is everyone judging everyone else, people are passing their own unhappiness off on people around them. This is long but makes the point. A few years ago I bought a used CPO BMW. The previous owner was an older doctor and had taken real good care of it. I paid 24k for it. A few weeks later we were waiting to start a meeting and discussing reimbursements. I was pointing out all the out of pocket expenses I was running into during travel when one woman fired off the following comment I will never forget... "You already drive a BMW, it's not going to kill you." Everyone in that room was in a car that cost just as much or MORE than that BMW. Hell, the idiot that made the comment had a relatively new Avalon that was at least 30k. Sad part is, and I learned this a lot later, was that they always had money at the end of the fiscal year they could pay out to employees for going above and beyond. The manager however, would pick who she thought "needed" it the most based on what neighborhood they lived in and stuff like that. And of course, the witch who made the comment about my car, was her go-to point person. Divorced, always pissed at everyone, making the rules up as she goes. I was looking for another job and just figured it was pointless to make an issue about this, but I did manage to have a little fun before I got out of there. I got a 530 loaner that the dealer had just rolled off the truck right after a service snafu. No ad logo yet and the window sticker was still there - 53k and change. So I drove it up to work and parked in the most obvious place, right next to where the smokers had to go- and they were there when I arrived. Talk about miserable. The receptionist was a good friend and told me about all the gossip going around about my "new car". People wondered if my wife got a promotion, did someone die, what was I really making? Pathetic. I got my own car back the next day, we're in our staff meeting again and the same witch asked me if my wife was driving the white BMW today. I asked her if there was a "car watch" going on, the told her in front of everyone it was a loaner, and explained what happened with my own car. "Why didn't you tell people that yesterday?" she asked. I answered in front of everyone calmly - to paraphrase: "Why should I have to tell people anything? Are people that concerned over what I drive? Certainly we aren't petty enough to make decisions based on what someone drives or where they live - or are we?" Then I pointed out if I had 30k I would have bought an Avalon like hers, instead of getting a used BMW for 23k. - Silence -

Well.... there is a reason I don't drive my Ferrari to work..... As it is with the p-car people are already talking ****.

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the F is an attention Ho. I have yet to take it to the hospital....maybe on a weekend day shift....maybe not

guilt what guilt ? on my 9th Pcar in 18 years. let the loosers drool.