PSM is it necessary?

I am buying my first used Porsche. Can anyone tell me if PSm is necessary? The car I am interested in does not have PSM on it (I dont think it does at least). PSM is an option right? Should I pass on a car that does not have PSM? I currently drive a bmw that has DSC and I feel safe w/ it and think it would help with a car as fast as a C2! What do you guys think? Please help! Thanks!

my C2 cabrio has the basic traction control and it's already excellent, i cant imagine needing any more intereference, i usually drive with it off.

It depends, doesnt it? I have lots of snow, and its standard fitted on the C4. This winter the PSM has already kicked in _a lot_ of times to save my ***. So I would not buy one without it. If I would live in a sunny area, then no - no need.

It depends upon the driver. If you have attended peformance driving schools and regularly track your car, PSM isn't necessary. Most of the drivers that I know who fall into this category, routinely disengage PSM on their cars because they believe it takes away from their driving pleasure. On the other hand, I believe that drivers who don't fall into that category, can greatly benefit from PSM equipped cars. An inexperienced performance car driver can take a PSM car and drive it hard with little fear of losing control. Moreover, in slick driving conditions PSM can help you to maintain control of your car.

PSM is just another safety feature. It is like ABS or seat belts. It is not "necessary", that is, until you need it. When you need it, it can be life saving. You'll appreciate it if you go into an exit ramp a little bit faster than you intended, or hit an unexpected puddle of water in a fast corner, or if you have to do sudden manuevers in the rain to avoid an accident. Can you have a car without it? Certainly. Cars have been without it for decades. Is it a good idea to have it? Absolutely. All new Porsches now have it as standard, and all upscale cars now have versions of it. Buy the car if you really like it and the deal is right. But, a car that has it would be a better car to buy.

nope

As others have stated, if you drive it in the snow 100% yes, if the car is never in snow, then no. I think it depends on your driving style as well, ask your self this if your current car has it, do you use it?

It is definitely not necessary. However, I would prefer to have it.

I don't have it on my '04 and did not see it as a critical option. I think you go with the best car and price you can find and should not make PSM a deal-breaker. Having said that, PSM or not you must respect these cars and their power.

Not necessary, but one of the best options for a 911.

I have one Porsche with it (996), and one without (986). Do you need it......no. Is is nice to have in bad weather? Yes, it provides a nice safety net. IMHO, Porsche needs to do two things to make their PSM system perfect. 1) Make it 100% driver defeatable. 2) Provide a multilevel system so that the driver could select different levels of slip that the system would allow. I.E. (Standard, Sport, and Race modes).

I don't have it, and even on a watered autocross course the car was great. I have no intention of driving it in the snow though.

PSM is not necessary, but it is like the "hand of god" that will keep you from bending your car in extreme circumstances. I have it on my 996, and sometimes I turn it off, because it keeps me from doing any sort of drifting etc. The 996 is very controllable in most circumstances, but it is good to have it for the unexpected situations. I also have it on my wife's Audi, and in bad weather, it has saved our butts several times.

The best thing I have found out about PSM so far is that it is MUCH less intrusive than some other systems. DSC on the BMW's (in particular, my M3) is very bothersome - cutting power entirely in some cases. For instance, going to work, there is one light where the turn is off-camber. Any application of power at all here results in rear-tire spin and oversteer - the DSC would kick in, cut power, and then reapply full power once traction was re-established, ending up with a jerky go - no go - go situation. Same thing with full throttle take-offs - any tire spin and DSC cuts all power, then reapplies it making for a very jerky launch. I have drifted the back end slightly with PSM on and it gently manipulates throttle to regain traction but it never just kills the power.

I attended a BMW autocross event a couple of years ago where they left the stability system on. Just dreadful. You had to wait a three count for power out of a corner. Probably great on the street in everyday driving, but no good when you are trying to have fun. I have not autocrossed my 996 to see whether there is a difference, but I have yet to come across a circumstance where I was swearing at PSM. Give it time, though, I probably will. As for the original poster, I would much rather have PSM than not. I agree its not necessary, but it is a nice safety net which does not spoil the fun of every day driving.

Precisely! I owned an e46 m3 as well and I really disliked the DSC. When you have such an intrusive system, you tend to turn it off more often than necessary. However, credit must be given to BMW for making the M3 very telepathic in it's transitions. With DSC off, I've slipped it quite a number of times and have been able to gather myself extremely well afterwards. I couldn't have said that about an S2000 I onced owned. I've taken a slight uphill off camber turn with the C4S and managed to let the rear out. The momentary slip was hair raising fun before PSM decided to reign in on the party. However, in comparison to the M3, I do know that PSM allows for a greater amount of *freedom of expression*. Therefore, is it necessary? Probably not. Is it worthwhile to have? Definitely as no public road is w/o danger. I'd rather be humbled by PSM than the aftermath of a little too much excitement.

My 99 996 has standard 'switchable' Traction Control. It is a superb not too intrusive system and I wouldn't like to not have it! As long as you at least had TC I wouldn't be put off buying a car that didn't have PSM.

I think, like other posters have mentioned, it depends on where you live climate-wise I have TC and this has only kicked in a one time in 16 months of ownership I personally would not like a car with PSM unless it was completely defeatable

can anyone tell me what type of traction control come standard on the 2002 996 c2? ASR traction control?

You haven't truly experienced a 911 until you get sideways on an on/off ramp, and keep your foot on the gas and steer thru it. That's the joy of no PSM. You'll become a much, much more capable driver all around with no PSM. It'll force you to be smooth on the power and balance your car in corners, rather than lean on the PSM as a crutch and never getting better.

Or it will teach you the cost of repairs.

Could you really get an '04 without PSM? No PASM maybe, but no PSM?

I believe it's called ABD: Automatic Brake Differential. Applies brakes to the spinning wheel to force torque to the wheel with traction. Simillar to the older form, where the differential itself applies more friction to the faster spinning axle thereby redistributing the torque to the non-spinning wheel. PSM upgrades to where brake pressure is applied separately to all 4 wheels to try to keep the car going where you want it to..

Very true. Keep it on the track, not on the street.

>>>>I believe it's called ABD: Automatic Brake Differential. Applies brakes to the spinning wheel to force torque to the wheel with traction. Simillar to the older form, where the differential itself applies more friction to the faster spinning axle thereby redistributing the torque to the non-spinning wheel. PSM upgrades to where brake pressure is applied separately to all 4 wheels to try to keep the car going where you want it to..<<<< Isn't there a engine map/throttle interaction as well? So as to reduce the torque delivered to the differential in the first place?

It bogs me down when I shift to 2nd when I have to jump into traffic

I have a 1999 996C2 which doesn't have PSM or the standard traction control. I had one incident comming of a round-about in the wet, when my back wheels tried to overtake the front. At that point I would have loved to have PSM :-) However I think without it you just have to pay a little more attention and some times you won't push as hard as you might have done, as you know you dont have a saftey net. If Youve found a car you like which doesn't have it, id say go for it and just book yourself on an advanced driving course.

I have no problem trail braking/drifting w/PSM on. It allows for quite a bit slip before it kicks in (just the right amount IMHO). It's also about the only option that's not retro fit-able.

On PSM, yes. Not on the std ABD. I believe there are several levels of PSM "intrusion". PSM takes away the throttle from you when the car is seriously out of shape to try to bring it back under control.

I've had my 2000 C4 cab for a year-and-half and never had the PSM kick in until yesterday at a DE event at Thunderhill (including a previous track day and lots of spirited driving) when it kicked in twice. The first time I stayed on the brakes too long going into turn three after cresting the hill on the off camber turn (driving my rear-view mirror). I might have been able to save it without the PSM, but I'm not sure. With it, after fish tailing back and forth a few times, PSM took over and straightened me out without incident (the instructor seemed a bit surprised we didn't go off track, and impressed with PSM). The second time, the back end started to slide out when I turned in too much when front end was light. I'd already adjusted and felt fine when PSM switched on briefly. I'm certain I would have been fine without it in that instance, but it wasn't intrusive. I might switch it off the next DE, but will leave it on for day-to-day driving for sure.

After having it on my M5 and 996, I can't imagine driving a car on the street in inclimate weather without it. For a track-only car, I wouldn't give a second thought to buying a car without it.

Hi all, i own a 996 C2 2001 with PSM...... and I used to have a 964 C2 (of course no psm and no Traction control) and a 993 C2 again no psm, no TC i will only talk though about my 996... same track same day (i.e. same weather conditions) same driver lots of laps with no psm I only managed 1:13.05 around the track...... then an instructor told me to use the PSM.....on the track.... with PSM ON, next try 1:12.06 .....and that's almost 1 sec!!!!! note something : the PSM was ON but was never engaded during the try..... conclusion : PSM made me feel more confidence and secure....... my personal opinion is that PSM is necessery and of course should be always on.... it will help everyone of us to explore our limits (of course different to all of us) and will help us to make them higher... you will need it once, and it might save your life as well....... for those that think PSM is not necessery....then there is always a switch to turn it of....... my personal opinion...

Harris , this is so true !! I too feel so much safer in a car equipped with PSM. It is true most of the time it just sits there doing nothing but when you need it is there. To me it is a no brainer. PSM is a must ! An independent study in Europe showed that the decrease in fatal accidents was related to the fact that more and more cars come equipped with DSG/PSM/ESP.

fear factor decreases performance. example 1 : think of Go-karting. kids are always faster (may be equally faster ) than more experienced drivers.... and be4 everyone will start mentioning "weight" .... i will answer: NO!!!! fearless kids are driving more agressivly cause they do not have in mind the consequenses of a bad accident.... and even if the have one they will overcome it, much easier than an adult.... example 2 : we were recording with a friend how fast (with a speed gun borrowed from a cop!!!) we could enter a curve in a track nearby my house....... the 60 mph became 62....63....65.....then i lost it and had 2 360s....... I tried again....first try was 58..... even now after 3 days spend there i cannot reach 65 as i did the first day at the track........ I believe....that all comes down on how to eliminate the fear factor..... and believe me......every orthologically think man-women do have in mind 1000% more things to thinks when driving than a kid. and this is so logic....

I believe....that all comes down on how to eliminate the fear factor..... You may call it "fear factor". I'd call it self preservation. Most kids have boundless confidence and believe that they are indestructable. Many of us have learned differently from the school of hard knocks.

Totally agree, my 6 yrs old started riding motorcross this summer and he's taking crazy jumps...he has no clue...god bless him and keep him safe.

I agree!!

I made sure to buy one without PSM.... I am learning manual PSM lol

Its more fun with no PSM!!!