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THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
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YOUR RESEARCHBruceP just cancelled his membership
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incredible contributions
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In large part this is due to his incredible contributions, which cause many people to cut him more slack, but there are some very notable flame-fests buried in the posts of last year with LVDell publicly flogging the poor fool who disagreed with him.
Leading evidence: 'incredible contributions' (1 discussions report identifying this cause; no attributable repair resolution). Across 1 matching discussions, the most frequently mentioned possible cause is 'incredible contributions' (1 discussions; 1 report identifying it and 0 suggest it). The most frequently discussed action is 'Check under the back' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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My car hit 60K yesterday, I checked under the back to make sure that my RMS, IMS and engine didn't blow out...
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Long story short........I am a seriously changed man.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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I can't lie, knowing that when I'd make a comment I ran the risk of Ben piling on has kept me over at another 911 forum, as I don't have to deal with that **** there.
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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That doesn't mean that money buys you class but it did change the tone around here when the maturity level and arrogance took a turn for the worse.
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I can't lie, knowing that when I'd make a comment I ran the risk of Ben piling on has kept me over at another 911 forum, as I don't have to deal with that **** there.
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In large part this is due to his incredible contributions, which cause many people to cut him more slack, but there are some very notable flame-fests buried in the posts of last year with LVDell publicly flogging the poor fool who disagreed with him.
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
105 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
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Generation: 20261026T120458Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
Ah great,
I hope he continues to write as a "user".
Don't know what to say..........
Bruce, if you are reading this, please stay on Rennlist. Your insight has always been intelligent and helpful and I am sure others agree.........
He's definitely reading this.
Too bad his feelings got hurt and he chose to leave our little sand box here. I like the guy though I didn't understand his recent sensitive streak.
Bruce, I promise I'll install that lip spoiler this weekend. Pics and everything!
Seriously though I do hope you continue to be a part of this community. Your honesty, humility and helpfulness would be too sorely missed.
It sucks to lose any of our brethren. Hell, even Ben with his "in you face" "call every bit of BS" "never let you slide" "get better rims" posts would be missed if he left.
-td
I hope he sticks around and I empathize with his feelings. If we're going to discuss engine problems it would be nice to have some substance behind the discussions rather than a ton of speculative crap.
Yup, it's a pity that those without data are fast to fling opinions, but slow to put facts out to back up their words.
I don't agree with Bruce canceling his membership, but that's up to him. In my mind if someone is full of it and cannot back up their data I simply ignore them.
My car hit 60K yesterday, I checked under the back to make sure that my RMS, IMS and engine didn't blow out... 24 hours and it's still holding.
You know, I think it works both ways. Since NOBODY has been able to produce data regarding the rate of engine failure on the 996, neither side appears to have much of a leg to stand on. With that in mind, I don't understand why some people have a problem with talking about it. Don't want to talk about it? Don't join the discussion.
Then let me explain it in terms you - and everyone - can understand.
I have absolutely no problem with folks disagreeing with a post that anyone posts. To debate at a technical level is fine;
I have absolutely no issue if you do not agree with the post/poster. Welcome to the "real world".
I do - however - have a huge issue if anyone attacks the "poster" (user or member) rather than the post. In my world - there is a huge issue between the two.
If you - or anyone - does not understand the difference - then I can help by giving a "vacation" to anyone that does not understand disagreeing with a post is *very* different than attacking a person.
Have a nice evening - and Bruce, my thanks for your notes, participation and support of Rennlist. I would welcome you back. In that - I know I'm not alone...
John
...and my response to that point is that in the absence of data all discussion is hot air and nothing but opinion. As long as people understand it as such, then all is well.
This is huge. People should understand that there is a person behind each login and that there is never an excuse for attacking the person. It's fine to attack ideas, but never the person. As I've said before, everyone can have an opinion, but until it's backed up with data the opinion is worth next to nothing and certainly no more than that of any other person.
When it all comes down to basics we're here to enjoy a shared passion and have fun. If you can't be nice, then you shouldn't be here.
Since this sounds like some of it was pointed at me please allow me to respond, John.
Let's be clear here in that Bruce has one of the sharpest keyboards on Rennlist. He is as guilty of attacking a poster as anyone else. His hands are no cleaner than anyone else who might have let some words get a little out of control.
I absolutely loved his worldly views and shared disgust/intolerance for discriminatory comments around ethnicity, age, gender, sexual orientation, etc. While I have your attn, I'm absolutely amazed at how much of this goes around in this very forum. I rarely venture outside of this 996 space, btw.
So if Bruce is tired, he's tired. There are others like myself who don't mind the discussions regarding failures and repairs so long as it's centered around a real life testimony. It's certainly much safer than the other stuff I see that absolutely has no place anywhere in this world.
Again, no one is proactively soliciting reports of failure. It's just what happens to be on the minds of people around here. If this site was all about fact-finding or even began to approach the near vicinity of the river to the Heart of Darkness, you'd better bet I ain't renewing my 15 when the bell rings.
Bruce, I'm sorry to see you go. I completely understand your reason. I have never understood why some of these discussions turn into personal attacks. I can't imagine these personal attacks happening in person (rather than from the anonymity of a keyboard)....somebody would get their *** kicked.
These cars are our hobby and passion. Discussing them should be enjoyable, not a source of "gut acid".
Bull$hit. You say one thing and post another.....
https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...&postcount=158
So - you wrote a book? Or are you saying - the rules don't apply to you? Or did you post that you have better information - but rather - you don't want to post it? And your "reply" to the discussion in that thread - to quote you
so long as it's centered around a real life testimony.
You can not have it both ways.
Your choice - you decide.
Have a wonderful evening.
John D.
But...isn't that half the point of a discussion forum? I guess that's the part I don't get. Also, Bruce said "see ya" in a reply to one of my posts, one in which I was definitely disagreeing with him, but I don't think I was attacking him. I hope Bruce, nor anybody else, feels that I was attacking anybody because I truly think the engines are a fair topic. I know that we all have, uh..."strong opinions" on the topic.
Sure, I pretty much agree with all of this. Everyone's opinion is valid, and I don't necessarily mind "sharp" comments towards me as long as they're not attacking me personally. As I said, I would hope that I couldn't be accused of stooping to THAT level.
Read my post in the morning - again - for the first time.
Perhaps it will make sense then?
Maybe not.
John
BTW - I'm still LOL at your post:
I kind'a know you are "..gettin worked..." - not the other way around....
Have a nice night, OK?
John
The thing thing is that we have such a big melting pot of personalities, backgrounds, culture, etc, etc...
You add some passion to the mix and things can get a bit heated at times, lines crossed as well.
I don't believe it can be avoided all the time. Too many people cramped in one Rennlist j/k
I would hope most can forgive, or at the very least forget and move on w/out dropping off this...crazy site.
This holds esp true for Bruce (clearly shown by the show of support) hate to see him go as well.
Maybe it's just that Holiday thing, Lord knows we can all use one at times
I think Bruce had some valid points. I'm not allowed to express that opinion?
I have been posting on this forum for a long time, but this is the first time I have heard that it's "poor form" to agree with the opinion of another member.
As I stated I empathize with his position and I agree with the points he made in his last post. If you disagree post away.
I'm not sure what your beef is, but I will ask you for a third time to contact me by PM if you want to have a personal discussion.
Ray - you have completely taken this the wrong way.
I have trouble with you using this post to refer to the previous discussion as 'a ton of speculative crap'.
Thats a cheap shot IMHO
maybe you need to be told to read streather's book.
and then read oldguy's post. compare and you're going to bow down, kiss my feet and tell me you get it now, i'm sorry ben.
i'm still here and i know you are admin, it's not nite nite time yet. it's time to rock baby boy.
btw y'all are taking all this way too seriously. bruce is reading this thread chuckling and loving the fact that he's getting attn. i'd be the same way.
Tell you what - sometimes, some folks just don't get it... I'm pretty sure most folks "do get it" - but, for some reason - you refuse to, for whatever reason.
I want to wish you well on other Forums. Those Forums, for you - is no longer this forum.
And perhaps someone will post a thread about you and your departure - so you too can -
.'..read that thread chuckling and loving the fact that you are getting attn..'.
John D.
<emotional>
If we can put our egos on the side, we will all get along just fine. These are just cars and not worth getting all worked up. I feel relationships are more important.
</emotional>
I'll deeply miss BruceP. He was always a voice of reason on actions to take, DYI's to look up and/or should I tackle, and a good sound head on his shoulders. Damn I'll miss him!
I just don't participate in the personal BS. I enjoyed the discussion about the blown engine, but really, it should have been discussed on another thread. The owner of the blown motor was just spouting off about his misfortune and will be over it as BruceP said "in a few weeks" (I least that's how I took what Bruce said). I don't know if he'll be over the landslide his simple thread created. I tried to focus my comments to the OP and his concerns, questions. he is a newbie and like me, has lots of questions and misconceptions about his ride.
I always try and look at the # of posts before I reply to someone and focus my level of response to his experience.
As far as Ben, I don't know what happened to him the past couple of weeks. I wouldn't be surprised to hear someone hijacked his password or something. He's always been honest, but not that blatantly disrespectful and childish IMHO.
Anyway, onward and upward....this is as personal as I'll make a post. As Bruce said, don't write anything you wouldn't say to someone's face; and assume everyone's 6'6" and 300#'s.
So Ben has been Banned. Very controversial guy, but I found him entertaining. I don't know if that would have been the case had I gotten into a scrap with him though.
I'm sorry to see both Bruce and Ben go. Sorry that Bruce got fed up and Ben refused to back down from the grandiosity. I thought Ben had turned a corner a couple of weeks ago when he started the "post the headshots" thread. Maybe it was just a temporary lapse of humility.
I have opinions like everyone else. But, I think it helps to remember that most of the time, the validity of one's opinions mostly holds up only in their own little world. I can tell you what I think looks good or what I did in a certain situation, but it doesn't mean you should feel the same way or do the same thing.
I didn't always agree with these guys, but I will miss their input.
We all know that Ben gets a bit wild sometimes, but he certainly wasn't the only person behaving badly on that thread, and he was baited by people who could have let it go.
I hope that Ben is unbanned soon, and that Bruce decides he wants to return.
Good riddance, this move is good for the forum. This was long overdue, IMO.
My 1st encounter with Ben was when I made a comment on e46fanatics when I owned a C4S and Ben owned an M3. All I said was C4S and M3 would be a good race. Ben told me the C4S was the slowest 911 and I had no chance of beating an M3. he went on to say the M3 was the better looking car, and some other stuff about how the M3 was more aggressive and was so much better than the 911. Ridiculous ****!! I just said whatever dude.
He then showed up here, trolled around for a while before he got a C4S. Then started bragging about his C4S and dissing other 911's not up to HIS standards. On several occasions, he made comments about how my Turbo had an ugly wing, the lag sucked among other things. He even said my car was "weak" cause it wasn't well-optioned. I ignored it, as always.
I can't lie, knowing that when I'd make a comment I ran the risk of Ben piling on has kept me over at another 911 forum, as I don't have to deal with that **** there.
"My" opinion regarding Benjamin Choi:
Entertaining? Maybe, but Ben is immature and belongs on a "less" mature forum. His drama WAY outweighed his contribution to this forum. I watched him insult a members wife (calling her ugly right to the guy). He was always very quick to point out, or make up negatives about peoples cars, as well as any other negative he could find. This simply showed his lack of class.
I would make a comment simply giving my opinion and Ben would say things like, "don't listen to him, he doesn't know ****, or "you you just have to know get to know him, he can't help himself." These comments offended me and made me wanna flame back at him, instead I just felt like I'd be better served to simply not post on that thread anymore. It literally chased me away. These bully tactics we're frustrating and I'm sure I'm not the only one who felt this way.
Ben brought this forum down a notch, IMO. Hopefully he'll learn from this and be a little more respectful towards others when he's not in his own house.
I could go on and on with my diatribe, but I just wanted to get my point out. Later Ben
At the risk of being called a traitor ( I do contribute, BYW) and of taking this a little (no, a LOT) off thread. What are some other good 911 forums. I'm not going anywhere, just looking at different perspectives.
The two that I know of are:
6speedonline.com
rentech.org
6speed seems a little less technical
rentech is more technical
Neither has the traffic of Rennlist, But ...
Both have Ben.
Larry
Bruce and I have not always seen eye to eye, nonetheless I liked him (especially when he called me hoss).
Bruce saw Ben's true colors and I think this had to do with his departure, I think now that Ben is gone, Bruce will come back. I am just speculating about what i just said, but I do hope he comes back.
Interesting. I spend my time here. I used to post my drives on 6speed, but stopped, as I wasn't impressed with the kind of people that I found there - I guess Ben will fit in well over there.
Yup, Bruce is passionate, but not meanspirited. We have gone toe to toe from time to time, but I have respect for him and his opinions. Hopefully he will come back.
I have been depressed to see you and the other regulars posting less and have attributed it to the environment that Ben was causing. It no good us having all these newbies joining if the regulars with the experience are leaving.
Gant, Sorry if my reply to this was inappropriate. I thought that considering Loren (owner of renntech) is a frequent contributer here, that it was OK.
Can you explain why it might be inappropriate, so I dont F up again.
Larry
My guess is that it is just not appropriate to start a discussion about competing forums in this "open" forum. Probably against the rules and/or something the admin/mods frown upon, at the least.
I would hardly call Rennlist and RennTech competing. I consider John D a friend and fellow Porsche enthusiast. If you have ever looked there is a link to Rennlist on the front page of RennTech.
Rennlist and RennTech are different - RennTech being focused on the technical side of our cars and on the folks that enjoy working on them. We have lots of independent shops that frequent RennTech just for that reason. We saw a need for good, accurate technical information (not guesses or myths) on our cars and most folks think we provide just that.
I am a member here too (for many years) because Rennlist has always been a really good Porsche community. From buying advice, to member drives, to the latest mods, and technical discussions - Rennlist is the place. And, for high quality technical discussions/information I think RennTech is the place. I would hope John D would agree.
As an admin for a site I have a lot of compassion and understanding for John D as 99.97% of all the folks are friendly, helpful and courteous to their fellow members. But it only takes a few to make things miserable for many or all.
One final word - I think John D did the right thing. Regardless of your feeling for any individual - you have to do what is best for other 99.97% folks that make this site so great.
(Loren steps off his soapbox)...
Hey man, i never said any names. I just said "I" don't think it's aproprtiate to tell members here in the open other Porsche forums, as it has the possibility to open discussions about why they're better for this or that.
Ben's banning I can understand (whether I agree or not is irrelevant), but Bruce's departure I'm struggling with. I can see leaving if one's no longer wanted by the majority, or no longer finds the community valuable in any way, neither of which would be the case with Bruce, IMO. There's always the option to ignore or not address someone. Isn't that what adults do, even if we find ourselves surrounded by children at times? With the kind of rapport Bruce has built around here, I'd think it takes a lot more than a few bad apples to drive him away.
I'm thickening up my cyber-skin as I write...
ArrOgant:
I see your point...kinda. I've seen people post DYI threads off of other forums on here to help out fellow Rennlisters. I think the goal of JohnD. and Loren are to offer sites that best serve the Porsche community. I think that even means pointing people to other threads. after all this isn't a competitive business here, is it?
I can see being called on for being OT, but I think pointing people to any and all Porsche information is in the spirit of this site, correct?
Exactly - and I just saw Loren's post in this thread (Thanks Loren!) and echo his sentiments 100%. Renntech and Rennlist are absolutely "complimentary" sites - Renntech's roots being more technical and Rennlist more casual. I remember discussing with Loren his idea for Renntech before it was public - and - to Loren's credit and hard work - his site has flourished and is a credit to both his vision and his perseverance. It is - simply an amazing site - run by another Porsche Enthusiast.
As for mentioning "other sites" - of course you can!!! Heck - there are some good ones out there besides Renntech & Rennlist.! HOWEVER - with one caveat - no "bashing" other sites.. It's not right - and while Rennlist *is* bashed on some other sites (and *very* frequently on a few) - I have a different standard then most, I guess...
My other "hot button" is SPAMMING Rennlist with something like:
"I just started a "new site" (Forum URL) - JOIN US THERE!!"..
Anyway.....
JD
I don't want to be seen as piling on, but I give credit to John for banning Ben. Ben had become increasingly acerbic and personal in his comments. While I appreciate his insight, and in fact enjoyed some of his opinions at times (most of which I didn't agree with), they always seemed to come at the cost of belittling another person. It was starting to get just stupid and inane. I know I personally have been spending a lot less time on this board because of it, in favor of others on this site and another site not mentioned above. As far as Bruce is concerned - leaving is HIS choice and I respect it. I would have been very close behind him had things kept down the path they were headed.
John D, thanks for your clarification. I appreciate your open-mindedness. And FYI, Renn is my 1st and favorite Porsche Board. For 996 911's, there is NO substitute!!!
Whew, maybe I can start posting again. It was getting a bit too cosmetic. He kinda reminded me of the guy awhile ago who coined the phrase "drover". Could it be the same guy? No issues w/ heated debate or funky opinions (I have plenty), but character bashing gets the Eject button.
Sure hope my engine hangs in there just so I don't have to post here :-)
I hate to say it, but I think Ben was the sole reason Dell stopped posting here.
Dell was always the "Rennlist police" and his frustration grew rapidly to Ben's remarks.
He was the first to ponce on a new member for acting out of the "Rennlist culture" and Ben wasn't having it.
My theory was since Dell just had the newborn, his energies were too drained to fight anymore.......but I am just speculating, don't know Dell personally.
I hate to say it but I was actually a little in awe on how Ben could make Dell give up the fight first, never before did a newcomer achieve that "feat" if you will.
I wholeheartedly agree with John D, Renntech is more technical; and the response, primarily because of awesome work/contribution from Loren is lightning fast; while a technical question on Rennlist (unless Pss9's, rim offsets, oil, body kits, etc) can "sometimes" not get practical response. Although my membership lagged here I did become a contributing member to renntech. I saved 2.5 Porsche service hours on a job because of Loren's/Renntech's help.
Anyway sorry to see a member leave under such circumstances...
edit: John are you saying that renntech is not owned by you? I always thought they were companion sites technical/general of same "Renn" family. If not then I guess thats why there are 2 different memberships, I always wondered why that was.
I can understand that. As my time has been increasingly sapped away by other time sinks I find myself walking away from fights rather than taking them up to slap down bad behavior. Life is too short to short and there are too many idiots out there to slap down every one of them... much as I'd like to.
LVDell granted himself that permission.
He is one of the most knowledgeable folks around on 996 Porsches. He may also be expert on other generations, but I've never seen anyone with a more comprehensive set of detailed and accurate info on our cars at the tip of their fingers than LVDell.
He also has been, at times, more abusive to fellow rennlisters than Benjamin Choi could ever hope to be. In large part this is due to his incredible contributions, which cause many people to cut him more slack, but there are some very notable flame-fests buried in the posts of last year with LVDell publicly flogging the poor fool who disagreed with him.
After the last round he really backed off on participation here, which has been a huge loss from a knowledge perspective. But I don't miss the floggings.
And to be honest - given that confusion - that is a credit to what Loren has done with RennTech. Renntech is his site - and I value his support, friendship and fellow enthusiasm. I think you will find - Loren/Renntech is just like me - just a fellow enthusiast. And he does his site "just because he can - and he does"..
As I posted earlier - Loren asked me about his forum name before he launched his site, as his concern was he was playing off of "Renn" whatever..
To be honest - when I renamed this site "Rennlist" from "Porschelist" in 1999 - there were exactly TWO "Renn" whatevers on the Internet. Now - do a Google search with this:
renn* porsche
Yea - Loren's site is terrific - and yep - I am privileged to call him a friend. I've never met him - but I hope someday, I will. He has "integrity" - an uncommon trait on this thing we call the "internet"..
JD
What in the world did I just stumble on?
Let me clarify a few things. First, I truly appreciate the comments y'all have made about my contributions and my knowledge of the cars. It gives me great pleasure anytime I can help somebody out. I do it for my love of the marque and people of this board. I got that kind of info from other "LVDell's" when I was a newb and youcould sort of say this is my way of paying back the community. I have made some of the most incredible friends from this board! People that I spend track time with, coffee on the weekends with, even holidays and vacations with!!!
With that said, let me address the reason I left the 996 forum. First, I never appointed myself the forum police. Me calling people out was just that, calling somebody out when nobody else would. We really didn't have mods here in the 996 forum and if we did they were very lax. However, as the years grew around here I became more and more intolerant of the ignorance and disrespect I witnessed. It was almost as if there was a group of "new" users/members that came in with that "I'm better than you attitude now that I own a Porsche". Almost like when the 996 prices hit the 20's and 30's and they were within grasp, we started to attract a different crowd here. WHen I joined most of the people here paid damn near 100K for their cars like I did and that group was different. That doesn't mean that money buys you class but it did change the tone around here when the maturity level and arrogance took a turn for the worse. It got very old.
Sure, I started to develop quite the short fuse and would be one of the first to pounce but at NO TIME EVER did my pouncing involve attacking an individual the way Ben so relished. I would not classify my attitude as abusive but rather something along the lines of calling a spade a spade. Sure, there might have been some "battles" with specific individuals from time to time (and 99% of those involved apologies and resulting friendships after a few PM's) but NOBODY can ever say that I posted comments like Ben would. Telling people their car looks like ****, their a loser, their girls a ho, etc, etc, etc, was not my style. Calling somebody out for being ignorant, disrespectful, not following the rules, spreading inaccurate info claiming their are right, unappreciative, etc, etc, etc, was more my cup o tea
However, I realized quickly that I was starting to let the 996 forum turn me into something I was not..........somebody I was actually ashamed of. I found myself helping less and becoming more disenfranchised and thus taking it out on some the way I shouldn't have. For that I am truly sorry.
Most of y'all know me very well in this world (Rennlist) but those whom truly know me in the real world know that I am NOT that person that I had become here. I figured it was best if I stopped posting. I now keep my posts mainly confimed to the GT3 forum where oddly enough there really isn't any drama.....and I like that way. Whether it's the price point to belong to that club or the type of enthusiast or something altogether else, I don't know, but it is different. Here in the 996 forum I hang up in the nose bleed seats and watch from the sidelines. I still get an enormous amount of PM's asking for help and usually it is accompanied with "I realize yo don't post much to the 996 forum anymore but could you help me with ......." I don't mind that at all and I enjoy answering them.
Long story short........I am a seriously changed man. Hopefully more congruent with the person I am in real life and the one alot of you have shared a phone call with or a beer with or even the track with.
I will make this deal with everybody here. I will start to be the contributor I once was and bite my teeth when I want to kick the crap out of somebody acting out of line, and in return, EVERYBODY makes a concerted effort to return the 996 forum that it once was. It sounds like Ben's banning was a step in the right direction. However, I did talk to Ben quite a bit offline and deep down he really is a nice guy.
To the new and improved 996 forum for years to come!
ps. I can't for the life of me recall who is the "poor fool that disagreed with me".
Wow!
This is an amazing response, and now I feel pretty bad for calling you out. I was on the wrong side of a couple of your short fuses, and I'm glad you found a happier place! It was quite clear you weren't happy (on the board) for a while there.
And you are right, your short fuse blowups were not on the same topics as Ben's. But you could be quite, um, ascerbic when riled up.
And I'm not exaggerating my respect for your contributions, I learned more about my car pre- and post-purchase from you than from all other posters combined.
Nicely put Dell, I noticed you stopped posting too, but with baby and the other (SY) baby I thought you may have bigger fish to fry. I missed the polling and the occasional blue hell comments....
I too think Ben was deep down a nice guy, but like someone said earlier wore his insecurity on his sleeve while for most it's best to pay someone to work those things out, and not get it out on rennlist...
That said, I didn't like the way he talked to people generally, but I personally had few interactions with him.
Dell, I for one missed having you around not only for your contributions, but for the the fun of chatting with you.
I'd love to have you back here. I'm hoping that things will settle back to the way that they used to be and we can have less name calling and drama. I was one of the group that was just tired of the squabbling and name calling and was starting to wonder why I bothered to waste my time here.
Here's to having our regulars back!
Sorry Rob, you know I'm not a man of few words. Have you read one of Todd's posts? Now that man is a true literary genius! I am always amazed as to the breadth and depth a post he makes can take. As for the gist of my novel......I'll send you the cliff notes version
Actually, here's the synposis.
Dell was given great help from the regulars.
Dell passed on that info.
Dell became tired.
Dell changed.
Dell left.
Dell came back anew.
Carry on......back to your single malt
Miss chattin' with y'all as well! I'll hang here more frequently from now on. You are right though, I started to feel like I was wasting time as well which took away from the spirit of this forum.
Don't feel bad. Water under the bridge as far as I'm concerned. Yes, the old Dell could get quite riled up. But now? Totally different. You should see the restraint I have with some of my students! Obviously we are on different coasts but if you are ever out this way please look me up. Would love to knock back a few beers .
That was a heart warming story, that took me on an emotional roller coaster, but like that fat chick you picked up with beer goggles, it left me flacid.
BTW, my new favorite beer: Maudite
http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/22/33
I was never a big fan of Ben's but I have to admit that I was disappointed to see him banned. I guess I am a subscriber to the tenets of the 1st Amendment: "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence." Whitney v. State of California, 274 U.S. 357, 377 (1927) (Brandeis, J. concurring). I like to think that the internet is free (including public forums such as this one) and that better ideas will win out in the end in the marketplace of ideas. After reading more of his posts and many of the sentiments expressed in this thread, maybe it is for the best. But I still disagree with it as a matter of policy. (99% will disagree with me and that's fine.) However, I was disappointed to see John D. seemingly relish in banning him (giving Ben the "big wave goodbye). That seemed a little petty, and from what I have seen from John D's other posts, uncharacteristic.
Thanks for all the help over the last couple years. Notwithstanding the above, I still love this forum - and renntech.
I have lurked here for awhile before joining. I have been a member of 6speed even longer and PPBB for the better part of a decade. I prefer Rennlist to the others because of the more "mature" community and discussion. By mature I don't mean age, economic status, anything like that. Rather, I like that for the most part everyone's posts are courteous and thoughtful. The ban handed out in this thread continues to prove why I value this forum over some others.
If I ever get out that way, I'm going to take you up on that. And maybe you can get me out on that private track where you're a member, I love the videos I've seen coming out of there. Except that really scary off-track one, I wouldn't want to see anything like that first hand.
This is actually the first post I've ever noticed anything like a Moderator on this forum.
(I was always waiting for one to occassionally step in on some of BC's posts....)
I've spent a lot of time on VW and Audi forums and there's always been a couple power-users designated as Mods.
(I also never had to "pay" to become a forum member either -- and that really made me wonder why there was no Moderator to occassionally tap on BC's shoulder as a reminder.)
So -- why don't you make it official and make Dell a Mod?
My .02 pfennig.
Dell goes AWOL and y'all are giving him a big head? Make Dell a moderator? No f-ing way! There, that was your welcome-back reception, Dell.
Glad to hear about your introspection. Fatherhood has a way of doing that. Hope your family is well.
I was glad to see a moderator actually moderate and take some positive action. Sometimes folks have to be reminded that there are protocols....some written, some unwritten, and there are basic rules of common sense, civility, and decency....and no, I don't want to get into the basic concepts of the 1st Amendment. Sometimes children need to be spanked....
It would be my pleasure. Just PM me in advance if you are heading this way and I will let you know if we have some member days at that time.
Ah, there's the old 996 forum welcome back I was waiting for.
Maudite?! Why that's from right here in my backyard.
You might want to give the excellent creations from the McAuslan brewery a try - McAuslan Cream Ale is probably my all-around favourite, but I've yet to encounter a beer from them I didn't like.
Trivia: Unibroue also makes another beer called "La Fin Du Monde" which, for those who speak no French, means "The End of The World".
-
...grown men pining over each other? are we gonna sing kumbaya too?
whatever happened to darwinism, and thinning of the herd?
one guy leaves, another one joins in his place. everyone's replaceable.
btw, +1 for maudite. one of the two best things about canada. a trip there just isn't complete w/o picking up a few 4-packs
yeah +1 on Maudite, I luv the idea of rowing to hell, but taste wise I think I prefer the fin du monde. Unibroe makes some of the best beer outside of Belgium!! If your local stores carry them you should try the special editions that come out at the new year, 10% and usually very nice.
As Britney might say: Oops, I did it again! doh! [this is the Ben got banned thread]
Forgive me, my brothers, but there are others that need to know! lol. How does that saying go, study the past or you are destined to repeat it?
-td
edit: here are some pics I found of the Choi-Mobile.
02c4s2_01.jpg
02c4s2_02.jpg
