Got to try a turbo

So, last week, my student at the track had a GT3, and he insisted I take it out for a session - I posted about how great it was and how much I loved it. Yesterday, I had a similar, but different experience. My student had an '02 turbo (speed yellow) with lots of evolution motorsports goodies. It hasn't been dyno'ed, but the owner's estimate was it had 600 HP. (That might have been a little optimistic, but not by much.) Anyhow, he insisted I drive it for a session... Oh, my god - that thing was a rocket ship!! Easily the most powerful car I've ever driven on the track (perhaps even ridden in)! The speed that was able to achieve on the straights was incredible. I normally drive a turbo 944 - which isn't even quite as powerful as my 996. I'm still in awe of the power of that twin turbo. I felt it was going to tear the fabric of space when I accelerated out of the corners! So, which one would I want? GT3 or turbo? For the track, I think the answer would still be GT3. It had a more track-ready suspension, and was still super fast (and, I think it made slightly better noises). The GT3's brakes were superior (but the GT3 also had racing pads - the turbo had stock pads). All-in-all, it was a great day! I'm glad I've had students that have been so generous!

boy, your life sucks !! Nice, good to hear some real seat of the pant comparisons BTW no pics means it never happened

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[Image-only post; no author-written text. Original image references:] https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigcry.gif https://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/bigcry.gif

I call those "mental pics" and say, "dont worry, I am recording ALL of this" when those times come

I go back and forth between the 2 models.... both great cars. Though, the turbo is just so "modable" to get those bang for the buck power and they are so priced nicely nowadays.... but the 2wd of the gt3 is also a great selling point....

Posts like this can cause a lot of anxiety, feelings of inadequacy, anxiousness, and the list goes on! (LOL) glad you got to experience it!

feelings of inadequacy sounds about right.

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depends what you are looking for. I absolutely love my GT3

I'd say it would be a tough choice...both the GT3 and the turbo have diffrent qualities and attributes that to me would make either one a good choice.

If I had my druthers I'd have both...like Barn is saying both are awesome in different ways....I think I would lean toward the GT3 though. Something about the sound.

Yeah, GT3 all the way.

Now owning both I can 100% say.......... For the street, Turbo. For the track, GT3. I wouldn't have it any other way.

Just keep in mind that the turbo will cost you twice as much in maintenance over time--dealing with removing and reinstalling tubes and ducts, etc, for even the simplest things (like spark plug work). The GT3 is a better choice. Forced induction ALWAYS costs more.

Not if you are tracking the GT3 as you should. Then you will be spending 10X the costs on the GT3. As me how I know

I would buy a TT. If I was a hardcore track guy I would remove the front diff and lighten to taste...

A turbo is the one car that could tempt me to take a financial bath in my C2. It's not really the performance... I can hardly make use of what I've got. It's more of a sentimental thing. That engine is the final development of the original 911 flat 6. It really was the end of an era.

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+1000

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I tried that. Without an LSD and still an open diff, removing the shaft to make the car RWD isn't "enough."

So first of all I hate you again. Second, how much lag are you anticipating in the corners compared to NA 996's? Is it negligible? Maybe I should take a spin in a turbo....

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Well, it wouldn't be fair to call the 996 turbo the end of that motor, aren't the current GT3s still derived from it?

The 997.1 Turbos (2005 - 2009) also have the dry sump engine used in the 996 Turbos. The C2, C2S, C4, C4S and Targa got the new 9A1 engine in 2009 but the Turbo didn't convert to the new engine until 2010.

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In the turbo, it wasn't so much "lag" but the power delivery was much more like an of-off switch. (Again, this was a modified turbo, so I don't know how it compares to stock.) In my 944, which is a laggy car, you step on the gas pedal mid-corner, and there's a moment of delay (lag) and then you feel t- u - r - B - O power - it's a progressive increase in power as the revs climb. In the 996 TT, it was much more like: pressing the gas mid-corner was like flipping the switch that turned on the 2nd engine. Instantly, you felt like you had nearly twice the power you had a moment ago. While my student was driving, it was semi-damp conditions the 1st session - the line was dry, but the rest of the track was damp. Anyhow, he'd get the passing signal, he'd pull off-line to pass, give the car a little throttle, and the wheels would spin. I was telling him, "no need to go full throttle, just ease on the gas to pass." Well, the joke was on me - when I drove the car, I realized he *was* easing the gas on! Going back to how this felt in the corner, it meant you had to drive the right line in - because after you stepped on the gas, pure physics and trajectory was going to take over - if everything wasn't lined up, you're going to be off-track in a hurry! But, when everything was lined up, and when the "afterburner" kicked in, corner exit was pure joy, with a gear shift coming faster than you can think as the car gobbled up the straight. To summarize, I'd say there wasn't much lag, but I'd also say that the power delivery wasn't progressive. You know how in the NA cars, there's that little peppy spot as the variocam kicks in? Imagine that mid-acceleration power boost magnified by 10 (or maybe more!).

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This is why the TT doesn't pull (much) from GT3s on the track. The GT3 is on the throttle so much earlier in the corner that the Turbo's extra HP can't overcome the difference unless the straight is pretty long. Also, in the twisty bits where you hustle the car for short bursts, the TT doesn't have time to use it's forced induction advantage. [Also, you have to shift more in the TT due to its low redline]. It sounds about right that a highly modded TT pushing 600 HP would keep up with/pass a GT3, depending on the track. But I would still take the GT3 for the track. On the street, I might go with the TT. But probably not -td

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Could just be a case of broken telephone, here, so sorry if that's the case, but.... the C2, C2S, C4, C4S and Targa never shared an engine with the Turbo. In other words, no Turbo has ever had an M96 based engine in it, AFAIK. So the question is, did any car after the last Turbo use the GT1 derived motor. My understanding is that when this engine was retired from Turbo duty in the last model year, that was it for the 'original' motor.

Natural aspiration for the win. I love the turbo's don't get me wrong, but unless you run a hedge fund, which I obviously do not, it's just too damn expensive.

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The last turbo to use the m64/gt1 block was the 2009 997 turbo the only cars currently using that engine are the gt3 / gt3rs (however it is no longer a 3.6, over to 3.8 now, and making as much as 450 bhp naturally aspirated)