Do You All Really Hate Your 996's???

Hi, As a prospective new owner (I'll decide over the weekend whether or not to buy a low mileage 2002 C2 Coupe), I'm very interested to know why most of the posts here are decidedly negative. I am the former owner of a pristine '91 964 C2 Coupe, who loved his p-car tremendously (up until it was stolen in Nov last year). The car was wonderful in almost every respect (only complaints: driving position uncomfortable on long rides, pedal position impossible for heel-and-toe until Wings Pedal installed, and after 2-3 years of experience, not enough power!). I understand that there were RMS problems with the early models, but that they were all made good by Porsche. So why the mostly negative attitudes? Should I reconsider the 2002 and go for a late model 993 instead? Thanks, Marc

Hate.............Man wrong title........ Are you Crazy?? just decide for yourself if you hate yours after you drive it.See what diffrence is from a 91 to 2002+. I hated mine soooo much i paid over 110 k (CDN) for mine. Its a very good car for long rides, in less then i year i have put over 25,000 k on mine.The 993 has its gremlins too, and the rms thing is not that big of a deal, mine has been done still doesnt make me hate my car.. Good luck and post pics after you buy it

Who said anything about hating? Ciao, Johannes E.

Hate?...no that's not the word. what you mean to say is: wouldn't trade it for anything in the world.

Hate, absolutely not! 10K miles in 4 months, does that sound like hate. My hate centers on whether I should stay with the C4 or move up to a c4s or a 996 TT. So I don't really think you could call it hate. Negative posts are just the minority venting their frustrations and were drawn to Rennlist to answer a concern or question. The majority of folks who own are too busy to post and are out enjoying their cars or washing them in the drive way.

I've owned most 911 models since the mid-80s including 2 996s. The first was an 00 Cab, I currently have an 02 Cab. The 996 is a much better car than my 993 was, it's a great balance between a "sports" car and a "luxury" car. If you find a nice one, buy it. They are great cars imo! Good luck Roy

Hate? i just bought mine and put 3K miles on it in 8 weeks. I want to drive it everywhere. It a rocket ship ride in my opinion... wife and i love it

Love mine. Daily driver even in the winter. I think its people with problems that post more often. Nobody really posts to say "Hey went for a drive today everything was great, the car rocked" But that is pretty much my everyday experience.

It has been the most trouble free car I ever had, excellet cab with absulately no bufting and noise when open. Good engine sound and lots of fun in mountain roads How can you hate this Bigger http://members13.clubphoto.com/_cgi-...39-8152&trans=

Don't let the negative morons sway your opinion.....My 996 was an awesome car and I miss it......until I get in my 997 that is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've said this before. No one is really interested in good news generally (just look at the news on TV). You won't see many posts stating "No problems with my car". For me - love it! Drive it every day and it is a fantastic way to start the day and a great way to unwind at the end. Barry

Love it!! Considered trading it in for a 997, but couldn't get myself to part with it. Driving it always puts a smile on my face, no matter how crappy the day has been. I also sometimes take the "long way" to get somewhere just to maximize my driving time. Until the 996, I would be exited about a new car for a few months, then it would pass. I've had this one since July 2002, and the feeling is just as strong as the first day.

I'm a former 993 owner(see picture link below my signature), but here's my write up why I moved on to 996: I think the 993 is a great car. It's 30 years of continued innovation, but it's an age old design. They could only push it so far to adapt to ever changing road conditions. It's true that they say that the 993 needs more attention to drive, it dances with the road surface. The 996 does not. If it hits a bump, it stays in it's trajectory. I think that stability is good for our fast highways/freeways. 02 and newer has 40 horses more, with lighter bodyweight. So you actually gain more push power. It also wife friendly(I say). The interior is more civilized functionaly. Shifting alone is so much easier with my 996. It's a shorter throw with less effort. It gives me that more sport shifting feel. I could only go on and on in how much better the 996 is. The engine, For the same displacement, due to being water cooled, they were able to extract 40+ more horses. My only advice though is inspect the car thoroughly for the RMS. Look where the transmission bolts onto the engine, if you see oil seepage, have a p car mech look at it. If you don't any trace of oil, check the bolts themselves, if they bear signs(shinny corners) that they were move before, a telltale that the transmision was moved possibly for RMS replacement, or could just be for a cluthc. Mine and most of the guys here are clean. (I still have 9 mos of waranty and only have 13500 mi.) There's only few percentage of these cars that have that problem, of course you only hear it from these guys thats why it seems like it's an epidemic in rennlist. 1 more thing, ease maintenance on the engine is 4 folds better than the 993.. changing oil for example, 1 filter and the drain port is right in the rear bottom of the engine, with the filter beside it. Easier than my toyota truck. A race tech also told me that engines cost is $6K vice $14K for a 993. I went for the 02 to have the extra 20 horses with the 3.6 engine and the turbo look lights. I'm reallyX2 happy with the switch(993~996).

My 996 is a daily driver and gets the family around on weekends. I couldn't find a better balance of sportiness and daily livability. You won't regret your purchase.

993 is junk by comparison to a 996. I would buy a used Corvette before a 993. YMMV.

Yes, I really hate mine...wanna buy it? haha

I really like my 996 - no mechanical issues what so ever. I still have a few items to sort out (from when i bought the car) but that's it. i do have to say it is my 2nd or 3rd love however behind the 964 and 356. it's too easy to drive and is my first porsche in 6 years with things like A/C, leatehr interior,sunroof and a stereo (i'll probaly "fix" some of that soon )

I think it goes like this, when people are looking for mods, advice or have an issue, they post the question here. What you will not see is someone posting something to the effect of: "...my car is running fine, puts a big smile on my face every time I drive it, makes work seem unimportant, and has been virtually maintenance free. What should we talk about now?..." The reason is that a majority of Porsche owners are always looking to "tweak" their vehicles, see what best practices are, and help others overcome any maintenance (or recall) or upkeep issues. Other than that, we bicker about sports teams, nit pick others' knowledge of P-cars, and argue over which colors, interior designs and aero kits are the absolute "best" to have, all in good fun. Ten years from now, the discussions will probably center around maintenance, but for now, with minor exceptions, we talk about seemingly unimportant stuff. BUT WE LOVE IT AND CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING BETTER TO DO ON A WINTER DAY!

Nothing but love for my 2000 C2. I was a little upset I needed a new engine 2 yrs ago, but this car is the greatest. I've had it for almost 5 yrs now and I can honestly say I am like a kid in the candy shop EVERY, YES EVERY time I get in it. I don't know about you, but I can't say that about any other cars I have had for 5 yrs.

.......you said: I'm very interested to know why most of the posts here are decidedly negative.... there are more negative post because people ask for advice on their prob...and it is always good to discuss your prob with other people that they can undersand you... but...bare in mind that there are also posts for advice on power upgrades, aesthetic reasons, and any other kind of question.... you owned a 964 (as i did), and you want to buy a 993 (again as i did) or a 996 that i do.... t o t a l l y different cars....but all of them unique.... hate, again is ot the right word....may be you should use angry....because we all love our 996 and we get angry when something bad happens to our car... 996 is a very very good-fast-modern and (ohhh yes) reliable P-car you can buy....

Thanks one and all for your interesting replies. I must say that I was playing Devil's Advocate a bit with my inflammatory thread title. You see, I posted an earlier thread asking for help with reading the DME printout on the car I'm considering, and while my plea for help was read by about 40 of you, only 1 bothered to actually reply. That pissed me off, since Rennlist is a place to go for help. Remember, I had a 964 for 3 years, and was a regular on Rennlist in 2002/03 in the 964 Forum. (Oh, and Harris, I remember you well from your video where you thrashed a set of tires on your 964 while doing donuts!) So, I am well aware of the reason that most of us frequent Rennlist. It's to gripe about and ask for help concerning issues with our cars, big and small. Rennlist was exceptionally helpful for me as a new 964 owner in 2001/02. What I was really hoping to get with this thread title (and successfully, I might add) was your sense (as a group) of how much you enjoy the 996, and whether I could expect to get that same sh*t-eating grin out of a 996 that my 964 gave me all the time. It appears that the answer is "Yes". I have a feeling that I'll be buying one very soon. Many thanks for all of your comments, and I apologize if my tactics were a little below the belt. Marc

Let me join the crowd as an owner of a new 1995 993 and a 2003 996. No comparison in my book between the 2 cars. The 1995 had 272 hp, I have 320 now. It is much nicer inside, faster shifting, to me looks more up-to-date and I love it (996). You wont go wrong with a low mileage 2002 + 996. Cabman

If you want a nice interior, get a 996. If you want the last true Porsche... get a 993. Or better yet a 993TT. Don't fall into that daily driver, more comfortable, more water cooled HP, my wife likes it crap... Man up! Just my opinion of course... no offense to the board.

Ive got em both. If you can have just one, take the 996, 2002 or younger. Grins, yup, all the time!

996 or 993... if both are equal in their conditions, I'll take the 993. No offense to 996 owners, but the quality is in fact inferior to the 993. 996 may be faster and more comfortable, but I can always find that in any jap cars... and I hate jap cars.

Well, I guess I,ll throw in my opinion too. I currently own an 03 GT2 and was selling it to buy a 993 tt to put some money back into the bank and have a fun 4 seat p car. Drove one last weekend and I,m sorry..............................there is absoulutely no way I could go from a GT2 into a 993tt. I,m sure it was not the best example out there but still..........................it was indicative of the breed. I now know why so many members told me they did not see how I could think of buying one to replace the GT2. I drove an X 50 coupe and would take it over the 993tt. I,m sure a C4S would still get my vote too as they are so refined in comparison. I also drove a 73 RS clone....................yes a clone but a nice one at that. It looked nice, sounded nice but sorry.....................no deal. I am spoiled now. I realize there are those of us that prefer the air cooled 993 and 964,s for their styling and feel and that is perfectly alright with me as we need variety in our taste for things in life. Different boats right? I realize that other than a Carrera GT, I am at 11 with the GT2 and pretty much anything else made under the P mark may seem less in the performance arena but my priorities have changed with the addition of my 6 month old baby girl. We took two cars to the last PCA meeting and it just doesn,t work. I am now thinking of getting a 05 Turbo S Coupe or perhaps an X 50. I am going to find out if there are any major improvements with the 05 S cars. ( My wife thinks we should get a cab with a hard top but not sure I could do that either as I am not a convertible enthusiast) I have found a few dealers that are willing to discount the 05 cars 5% off MSRP. Seems fair? Anyway..................sorry 993tt drivers, I will have to pass but I will always be kind to you when we meet. After all, they are still beautifull cars with loyal enthusiasts as owners. As for the 996 ( and I,m sure 997,s too), they are so refined in every way. I feel they are easier to go fast in than earlier cars. I bought the GT2 because I did,nt want an easy car to go fast in on a track. I could have bought a GT3 but it is a much easier car to drive. I wanted the challenge and I got it. Installed a tech bar, GT3 seats, and was to order tires/wheels for track duty when it hit me. I should sell this car before I track it so I can honestly represent it as untracked to maintain it,s value and sell ability. Once sold, get a nice 4 seat late P car for street/family/PCA rides and buy a used track car. Works for me!

even i, with $47k in repair bills don't hate my 996... i find it to be the most enjoyable car i've ever driven.. am i upset with the ride? no... am i upset with the porsche dealers? no.. what i am upset is with the porsche marque and the general company themselves.. their attitude with out of warranty customers is complete crap, along with their shroud of secrecy they have relating to their "perfect engine" and their "what's RMS?" policy by porsche customer service... for a $100k car, i'd expect a company to learn how to treat their customers better, instead of taking us all out to be morons, blaming all the problems the car has had on us for "alledgedly" misuing the vehicle.... on that note, the 996 is truly a car i do not hate.. even with all i've been through..

Drive a 996 and you will see its an excellent car.

My 996 beats my 993 in almost every category. The C4S rules.

I am extremely happy with my 996. I initally considered purchasing a 993, but during my research I started to look into the 996. It had more of what I was looking for. In my case I needed more interior room for carrying the family, more comfort touches for what I expect in a car at this price range (without being boring like a Lexus, Mercedes or Jag), way more power, a better shifter, better looks, etc. Then I started seriously looking at the 996's, and during my research the 997 came out. I compared both, but the 996 was a better value, in light of the discounts on new ones at the time. Plus to me, and I may be in the minority, the design of the 996 is better executed than the 993 or 997, especially with the 996 C4S or Turbo nose. It's just more visceral/mean and less VW Beetle'ish wimpy (no insult intended just MHO). I'm more of a face v.s. butt kind of guy

I think most of us LOVE our cars! Yeh, there are some who gripe and maybe there is validity to some of the gripes, but I have driven a series of p-cars and have love each and every one of them in their own way. There's a lot of 996 versus 993 above. My answer to that is get a 997 if you can afford it. I gave my 993 up early due to financial worries. I will say the 996, though a great car, left me cool as it missed some of the rawness. I am ecstatic with my 997 S! Anyway, they are ALL GOOD and get the newest and best you can afford!

I had a 993 S prior to my 996 and have been part of both "gangs" preaching their cars. One thing I can say now is, and trend seems to be strengthening, that the people saying they would never go watercooled are now "turning their jackets" with the 997. Probably because of looks though. So the last air-cooled, quality, interior etc.. crap they have been throwing at us is just BS to me. 996 and 997 are very similar cars. Experienced 993 owners acknowledge, usually, that the 996 is a superior car, but it does not give them the "look and feel" that the 993 does. My point is the 996 is a better car in many ways. Some have more resistance to that fact and maybe need another 911 "generation" to accept that. We 996'ers were earlier to see that the 996's offerings was great, that's all. I am really happy with mine, it does exactly what I want it to do and more. It has been troublefree and I enjoy it more and more. I can only recommend that car. It's great.

If going regular Carrera, give it a year or two, but people are going to look right over the 996 series and hit the 997s. So it'll be 993 or 997 and the red-headed step-child being the N/A 996 Carreras.

I highly doubt that.

I highly doubt that too (that the 996 will be the step-child), especially when it comes to the GT3 or the 40 Jahre.

Love it!! It was a match made in heaven, me and my 911's(aircooled and watercool)...forever, till death do us part.

I think it comes down to what type of driving experience you're after....I own a 993 but have driven many 996's....The 996 are years ahead of the 993 in terms of refinement and does everything well...In my mind, a great Grand Tourer....I chose a 993 because to me, it has a "rawnest" to it that I prefer with little electronic aids...no PSM, just ABS... They are all Great cars in their own right....

It took me a while to warm up to my 996. Coming from the air-cooled cars, it lacked the raw feel of my '87 911 (which I still drive on weekends). It had intoxicating power, but so much understeer it left me wanting. Then, I did the H&R coilovers. '87 911? What '87 911? Once you eliminate the Cadillac-like ride of the US-spec suspension, man, the 996 really comes alive. I can think of a lot of words for how I feel about the car now. Hate is not even close to being on the list.

I love my 996.

OH MY that picture is really gorgeous.

Love mine too. Just came back from a little drive. I've had it 3 years and am surprised how it still makes me grin when I drive it.