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YOUR RESEARCHDurametric? Buy or rent? How useful is it?
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Replace )."
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Leading evidence: 'Replace )."' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Fill reservoir' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
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As expected I got a considerable amount of air out of the front two calipers (both were essentially rebuilt + I replaced the short metal brake line on the driver's side).
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And finally, I use open brake fluid bottles many months after they were opened just like I use the brake fluid in the reservoir for many months after its been exposed to air.
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And finally, I use open brake fluid bottles many months after they were opened just like I use the brake fluid in the reservoir for many months after its been exposed to air.
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Suggestion
Fill the reservoir to the rim, pressure it up, bleed it down to just above the clutch line, unhook, repeat.
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed · Original poster
As expected I got a considerable amount of air out of the front two calipers (both were essentially rebuilt + I replaced the short metal brake line on the driver's side).
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I just finished rebuilding my front calipers and I have a feeling that I'm going to need the dealer, or a Durametric to bleed the system (it has PSM - I'm going to try with just the power bleeder tomorrow so I'll know for sure soon).
It looks like my options are pay the dealer $200, buy a Durametric for $285, or rent one. Considering I may have to rebuild my rear calipers at some point, my inclination is to buy one.
I've never used one before - are they pretty useful to have around? Does it let you see cam deviation? Anything else that is really really nice to have about it? I've seen talk about coding and the pro vs. enthusiast - what does this even mean? Is it applicable to normal repair and maintenance?
Thanks in advance!
Charlie
Invaluable tool for the long term. Yes, it shows cam deviations and a multitude of real time values. Also can help diagnose CEL's codes to pinpoint problems, brake activations for bleeding, and can reset the air bag light. Have it myself and it is truly invaluable. Great support as well. You need the enthusiast version - works on up to three VIN's. No need for the unlimited number of VIN's for the Pro. That really is the only difference. And no, it won't do coding (well it does if you go Pro and have a specific model/DME MY 2000 up it supports...but I have no idea what coding you can do).
http://www.durametric.com/
Joe summed it up nicely. I found the following most valuable for diagnostic that you can't get from a generic OBDII.
Real-time sensor data
- Oil temp
- Cam deviations
- Fuel trims at different conditions (idle vs medium load vs high load)
- Misfire count per cylinder
- Rough running values per cylinder
- MAF voltage
Commands
- Activate fuel pump
- Activate variocam lift
- Activate coolant fans, low and high speed settings
- Activate SAI pump
- Activate a/c compressor
- Activate litronic leveling
- Disable individual injector
- instrument cluster test (test all the lights and gauges)
You don't need to buy a Durametric just to bleed your brakes with PSM. The amount of fluid that is trapped in the ABS system isn't worth worrying about, especially if you change the fluid yearly.
On the other hand, the Durametric is well worth the price if you plan on doing other maintenance/repairs in the future.
Thanks for all the great info!
I hope you're right and I don't need it. But, I had to remove both front calipers and the brake fluid reservoir appears to have emptied as a result. My hope is that I can reinstall the calipers, fill up the reservoir and bleed the system normally. But, I have a feeling I'm going to need to run the ABS pumps to get all the air out.
Hi Bill, can you tell me for sure that you don't need Durametric to open the ABS valves in order to do a simple brake flush? If so, i'll bleed my brakes right now!
I don't have PSM so it might be different but I've had my car completely drained of brake fluid three different times and never had an issue using a power bleeder. I will usually bleed a second time after driving the car pretty hard to get the last few bubbles out.
I also reuse the brake fluid I bleed out to go back into the system to continue bleeding it some more.
And finally, I use open brake fluid bottles many months after they were opened just like I use the brake fluid in the reservoir for many months after its been exposed to air.
If you don't have air in your system, my understanding is the only reason you would need to cycle the ABS pumps is if you're adamant about flushing every last drop of the old fluid.
It's not worth it just to bleed the brakes. It IS worth it to own one...eventually something will crop up and allow the unit to pay for itself.
It's better to order it now so it's there when you need it rather than wait until something's broken and you're desperate.
I'm not sure I understand this. Please 'splain it to the slow kid.
FWIW
From Renntech:
Porsche's method to bleed the ABS is to hookup a PST2 or PIWIS tester and use a built-in function that starts the ABS pump during bleeding."
"Most dealers do not both to bleed the ABS unless the system has been open (i.e. lines or components replaced)."
A related benefit of Durametric is that if you can give the results of a test with Durametric attached to your question, you'll get more focused,helpful,technical responses imho. W/o the Durametric/PIWIS data the thread sometimes deteriorates into arguments and flip comments about guesses.
For example Camshaft deviation and chain pad wear/IMS worries.
Yes, a durametric is useful.
No, you don't need it to bleed the brakes (even after caliper rebuild) in 999/1,000 situations.
As mentioned before, it allows a very tiny bit of additional fluid to be purged, that is all. Put in some SRF, bleed as you would on any other performance car, call it done.
FYI - in case anyone comes across this thread. I put everything back together today and flushed / bled the whole system with my Motiv bleeder. As expected I got a considerable amount of air out of the front two calipers (both were essentially rebuilt + I replaced the short metal brake line on the driver's side). Just finished a short test drive and there is no sponginess in the pedal at all. In fact, it engages higher and feels a bit better than it did before. Since the pads are brand new, I'm taking it easy and haven't stomped on them yet to engage the ABS - but so far so good without the need to cycle the pumps using Durametric.
Cheers
Charlie
As long as air was not introduced into the ABS pump system you should be absolutely fine with using the Motiv bleeder.
If your really worried about it just drive your car around for a few days... then flush it again... you might get a tiny bubble or two... if that... but you will have piece of mind.
If you really want to make sure with out using the Durametric tool just find a nice secluded area and do a few panic stops... let the ABS system do its job a few times... then back to the garage for another flush and see what you find...
I find that brake fluid can be reused over and over if you follow these steps:
1. Put it in a large pot and "bake" in an oven at 250 degrees for two hours. This removes any entrained water.
2. Strain through a cheesecloth.
We all know how good you are at servicing the brakes!
No, there was a long discussion about it in the racing forum. Why is brake fluid good in your reservoir but not in a bottle that has been opened. It doesn't make any sense.
For routine bleeding, I don't reuse the fluid. But if I have emptied the system there is no reason to run new brake fluid through it once and throw it out. It typically takes about the equivalent of 3-4 liters to get all of the bubbles out of the brake and clutch lines. I use the crap out of my brakes and have never once had an issue with the fluid boiling. I've had plenty of other issues, to Cuda's point, but none because of the fluid.
That is logical. Especially if you're flushing your system pretty regularly. If it's going to be in there a while I'd rather just play it safe and crack open a few new cans of fluid.
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Sarcasm aside - if you loosen a bleeder too much, air gets sucked through the threads and out the end courtesy of fluid dynamics. If you don't realize this is happening, you will bleed your way through all of your available brake fluid...
This is true. Also, I did a complete flush and bleed with 2 liters comfortably. I would not recommend trying to do it with just 1. Its probably possible but it doesn't leave room for much error - and if you run dry you have to start over. I used a Motiv power bleeder, and due to its large base, it takes a decent amount of fluid just to cover the bottom completely and up past the intake straw.
Also, unfortunately the Durametric didn't work out. It is the 'basic' version, which isn't listed on the main website but I called Durametric. Apparently the basic was sold through over vendors and supports only 1 VIN. HOWEVER - it may still have value in terms of trade-up to the pro version (you'd need to call Durametric to confirm this though).
Cheers
Charlie
Sorry, 3-4 half liters, not a gallon. Clutch bleeding alone can take 20-30oz to make sure you get all of the bubbles out. I've drained the system fully 3 times now and clutch only another 3 times.
I'm curious, have you seen any definitive research that would point towards not reusing brake fluid or are you just going off of what you've been told? My research shows that I should be able to get a year out of SRF, even with the 30+ track days I have planned, without issue.
FYI, you don't have to put the fluid in the Motive. Fill the reservoir to the rim, pressure it up, bleed it down to just above the clutch line, unhook, repeat. It's a lot cleaner way to do it.
Also, if you haven't ordered a Genesis bleeder bottle off of amazon yet you might want to look into them.
I haven't had any issues with a mess using the motive with fluid in it - but for smaller jobs that aren't going to use as much fluid I definitely see the advantage of leaving it dry.
+996 on the genisis bottle - that makes bleeding so much more enjoyable.
