Found 2 oil leaks - updated with CPO coverage results

While changing exhaust I found one leak from the motor, and when pulling the heat shield to the coils, I found another leak. Neither leak to the ground though. However I just bought the CPO'd car, so I'd like to have the dealer fix them. But I would like to know what's leaking if any of you can tell. This way, I'll be more knowledgeable when I discuss it with the dealer and show them the pictures. Thanks. Motor leak: Other leak on part inbetween coils on passenger side:

the second one looks like the cam solenoid... if it is and is leaking the fix is pretty involved. DHarn55 has been in there... though on the 3.4 that is not where the solenoid is, so I am not sure. The first one looks to be right in line with the tranny/engine split. Could be a numer of things in there RMS/IMS seal or maybe something above those on the outside. Since it is a CPO coverage, point to them and say "Fix these" then ask for a loaner 7GT3

The sensor item that's leaking in the second picture: there are 2 sensors each side of the 3.6l motor that are on both sides of the most rear coil. These are different sensors (or whatever part they are), but have similar connectors. The one that is leaking is closer to the front of the car on the passenger side. The driver's side is dry. Another picture is here for reference:

The black pipe in the first picture is actually a coolant line. However the oil seems to be coming from the center of the engine where it joins the trans. Could be the RMS, or the IMS flange. Could also be from a cam cover. To check the RMS and IMS flange seal you have to drop the trans and pull off the flywheel. At that point you may want to consider the LN Engineering IMS bearing and flange update. The parts are only about $600, and maybe an hour labor beyond what you have already done in removing the trans and flywheel. However, the dealer may want to get more than this. The second picture is a cam solenoid, but it is one from a 3.6 VariosCamPlus engine. My experience is with a 3.4 engine. However replacing the seal at the solenoid is not that involved. The green ring is the seal. I think you just pull of the actuator (the black plastic part) and then the seal, which is part of the metal cap, comes right off with the two hex head bolts. Not a hard job to replace. I actually use some additional sealant (permatex RTV Copper) on these seals and they are a common leak. With CPO this should all be covered (not the LN upgrade).

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Yes, it's on the metal part to the right of the coolant line and coming from were you describe. Well, it's off the dealer. I agree about the IMS upgrade from LN engineering and will discuss with the dealer if they do pull need to replace the RMS and/or IMS. My other option is to let the dealer fix whatever is leaking now and then do my clutch (at an indie) at the end of the CPO along with the LN upgrade since the car will have around 35-40k miiles on the odometer in 2 years. That's if I keep it for more than 2 years (just bought it a few weeks ago). I have a bad habit of buying a car every 2 years. Hopefully a loaner car is included from the dealer.

If the first leak is RMS or IMS then teh dealer will have to drop the engine to install the new seal. Have them check the clutch for wear. If it is 50% or less, consider replacing the clutch. They can install a new clutch without any additional labor, so it would be cheaper to do it now rather than later.

Looks like you have a Rear main or intermediate shaft seal leaking in the first picture. Judging from the presence of the old style hex head case half bolts you're probably running the old style seal as well. The new style seal is a revalation and has been the cure of probably 95% of rear main leaks. The second picture looks like a Variocam solenoid leaking. It could just be the seal around it but there have been issues where the solenoid themselves must be replaced due to a problem were oil can leak through the electrical connector. If you pop the electrical connector off and you see oil inside either end of it, you'll need a new Variocam solenoid. Also you might already know this but in your third picture, you're missing a screw for one of you coils, it looks like it might be cyl. 4.

I'm not convinced #1 is RMS/IMS. When my RMS leaked it looked like this. The drops made a bullseye on the sway bar. Unless you're parking on a pretty steep hill, your fluid is much further to the rear. Are you certain it's oil? It could be coolant from the hose.

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+1 ^^^ If only the REAL PTEC were of any assistance!!

It's not even a drip that's collected, but definitely oil. I showed the picture to the local dealer and they said it's likely the RMS, but will want to verify on a lift of course. How could the selling dealer check the "Pass" box for oil leaks just 4 weeks ago is beyond me - he must have been 3/4 asleep that day. Won't PCNA be a bit suspicious of the selling dealer when a 4 week old CPO develops 2 oil leaks? If the RMS needs replaced, will it be with the new seal? I hope Porsche has a new part # that dealers will know to use. Yes, just thought to take pictures as I was putting the coil back in, but the bolt is in there...thanks for heads-up though. I couldn't get that rear passenger plug out without the wobble extension. I'm going to order the SK wobble spark plug extension kit from Sears.com. Someone here pointed it out and it looks nice for the $35...no way for an extension to come loose from the plug socket.

The wobble is normally called a universal unless I've been deployed too many times for too long You list the car as a 2002? Could be it sat for a while and normally seals will get strange after a car is run in then sits for extended periods. With just pictures it looks like old seepage that was partially cleaned off then baked on. I was told by a local friend today that giving the dealer the VIN and asking if it's had the IMS done is what I should do. Seeing the wiped clean portion of the sway bar I'd wonder if the leak could be from the trans and blowing back. Your best bet is a brush with something like castrol super clean and start with a clean slate and see where things go from there. Then you'll know the origin besides being happy with a clean engine. I'd even be guessing front main is seeping stuff down. Class 1 leak in military terms.

[QUOTE=Pac996;7163929]The wobble is normally called a universal unless I've been deployed too many times for too long QUOTE] The wobble lets the extension articulate up to 16 degrees, which is different than the universal (I just learned about it because Porsche recommends a Snap On extension with a part # and it's a "wobble"). There are probably others ways at it, but I ordered the KD 3 set magnetic kit from Tooltopia for $35.

Thanks for letting me know. There's a lot for me to learn for sure. I do know the germans taught me to wobble with veissen beer

I just got back the results of a few items including these leaks from the dealer. 1. 1st picture leak on this post is the RMS - covered under CPO 2. 2nd picture leak is a valve lift actuator - covered under CPO 3. Yellow gunk in oil filler tube - they will replace tube, cap, and associated parts - covered under CPO 4. Power steering leaking at the filler neck, o-rings, etc - not covered by CPO, $45 in parts and 2 hours labor. At least winter labor is discounted to $95/hr. I would have thought this would have been covered...oh well can't have a PS fluid leak. 5. Rear spoiler make strange sounds like it's binding when manually opening/closing - dealer said it could clean the tracks for 1/2 labor. I'll figure out to clean them myself since they said it's not causing harm. I've been almost regretting paying a higher price for a CPO...until now. This service may come close to paying for the $2k CPO fee.

You did ok, got lots fixed, and very little $ out of pocket. Yea!

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I know you have a really low mileage car but you may want to consider replacing the clutch. It's 8 years old and could have some oil residue on it. If you order the clutch from sunset you can get the whole kit for $500. Then just bring the clutch kit in and ask the dealer to put it in when they reinstall the trans. No labor and discounted OEM parts. That's what I did when my RMS leaked. And I have a newer CPO as well.

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I'm considering replaing the clutch and they will be measuring it for me. It does have some slight (very slight) chatter when pulling away in 1st gear. However I have a decision to make regarding this: 1. Replace the clutch now since the dealer says no additional labor 2. Wait until the end of CPO (11/2011) and install LN IMS upgrade and clutch at an indy. I will intall the IMS upgrade at that point if I keep the car beyond 11/2011. I will likely put about 10-12k max on the car each year, so it will have 35-40k miles on the clock in 2 years. Any advice?

I’d replace clutch now if needed and save on labor. Also ask if dealer parts dept will price match Sun Coast's or Sun Set's prices. Seems the dealer that sold you the car and the CPO didn't actually do the inspection and the required repairs. Your clutch should be within spec if it was recently CPO'd. If it is out of spec give the selling dealer a call and while you have them on the phone ask them to pick up the tab for the PS leak work as that should have been caught and taken care of by them before they sold the car. I'd also double check with them (or any other P dealer) to see if this repair should be covered by the newer CPO limits that apply to your car if it was purchased recently. I've heard stories of dealers not having/using the current CPO coverage list and denying service that is now covered.

+1 on replacing the clutch now, especially if it has 50% or less wear remaining. You may or may not do the LM IMS replacement later. Since the dealer will be replacing PMS, get the new clutch installed now for free (labor) plus the cost of the parts (your expense).

Typical stealer. Replacing the oil filler tube because there is some yello gunk, give me a break!! It is probably condensation related, nothing to do with the neck and cap. As for the Steering pump resevior, the two o-rings list for $2.02@, and It only take about 15 minutes to take off the tank and replace the o-rings. Now you probably would have to repalce the fluid, and Porsche charges an arm and a leg for Pentosin. Looks to me like they are taking advantage of both Porsche (under the CPO for the filler neck, cap etc.) and Optical TDI for the steering fluid leak.

O-rings and gaskets are typically not covered on aftermarket warranties unless you pay extra... but surprised they are not covered by the CPO warranty from Porsche.

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Did you have a noticeable difference with the new clutch?

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Night and day difference. My car had 35K on it when I bought it. The clutch wasn't bad but the old pressure plate made the clutch action far more stiff (and a bit noisy) than I thought it should be. Once they replaced it, the pedal was smooth as butter and the action was really improved. Plus it gives you peice of mind that a wear item that is costly to get to is brand new and in perfect shape. With the low miles you have, the flywheel should be perfect and not require any replacement. My dealer was going to sell me the clutch kit for $800. I said really? really? Sunset sent it to me for $468.65 plus $20 for shipping. The day I had the RMS replaced I said, "there's a clutch kit on the passenger side floor, please use it when putting everything back together." Dealers reponse, "no problem"

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UPDATE: I pushed back on the dealer on the power steering issue. He called Porsche and they directed him to an exclusions list for the CPO (apparently not available to us). He said it does in state the PS pump and associated o-rings are a "wear and tear" item. He's going to provide me with a copy of it though. They said they clutch was in remarkedly good shape and does not need replaced, but would give me a quote on parts. It's all going back together today, so I decided not to replace the clutch due to their observation of the condition.

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Optical The power steering pump leak should have been caught and fixed before the car was sold to you as a CPO two weeks ago. I’d bet at a minimum dealers are supposed to check basic fluid levels during the following “To give you maximum security when buying a Porsche, all vehicles within the Porsche Approved Certified Pre-owned Car Program must pass a demanding quality inspection. An obligatory checklist with over 100 quality criteria is used for this purpose. This way you can rest assured that your pre-owned Porsche is in perfect condition, both technically and visually.” and “• Porsche Approved vehicles are inspected by factory trained technicians who conduct a mechanical and cosmetic 100+ point inspection • Repairs are carried out in line with the strict Porsche quality criteria” If the leak started after your purchase I'm pretty sure you would have noticed some evidence on the ground if it was severe enough for the PS fluid reservoir to lose its entire contents during your short period of ownership. But even if this is the case and the leak is new, I can’t see how the repair isn’t covered by your CPO when the following is taken directly from the CPO description Porsche’s website “The new Porsche Approved Certified Pre-owned Limited Warranty offers full peace of mind. Porsche Cars NA will repair or replace with new or remanufactured part any factory installed part that is faulty in material or workmanship under normal use. This limited warranty covers all parts of the following components: • Engine • Fuel / Cooling system • Power train / transmission • Suspension / Steering • Brake system • Heating / Air conditioning • Electrical Systems • Body • Comfort Electronics” There is a general limitation disclaimer "The Porsche Approved Certified Pre-Owned limited warranty is just like our new car limited warranty. All you’re responsible for are normal wear and tear components, such as brake pads or wiper blades and scheduled maintenance. What’s more, you receive 2 years or 50,000 miles of coverage (whichever comes first) following the remainder of the new car limited warranty. Plus, our around-the-clock Porsche Roadside Assistance in the unlikely event you have trouble on the road. All in all, you can rest easy knowing that you’re covered.” http://www.porsche.com/usa/pre-owned-vehicles/approved/

Thanks for all the info guys. I picked up the car this morning. The service advisor sent in a "PTC" to Porsche and they responded by directing him to the exlusions area of the warranty. This is not available to us, but to the dealers. He navigated through the site with me there and printed the exclusions page that lists the PS pump resevoir and o-rings. And he did select the CPO from 8/2008 or later so it's the updated version. Unfortunately it's legit, but the total was around $2,200 and I only paid $260 with tax, fluid, parts, etc. The CPO already paid for itself. Now I did send a detailed and professional email to the selling dealer about the oil leaks that they checked off as "pass" on the CPO checklist they provided me. I've requested they reimburse me for the repair among other things. The sales rep replied that he forwarded to the appropriate person and they will respond soon. Overall, I was impressed with Porsche North Olmsted in Cleveland, OH and would recommend them for service. They were honest and transparent. I met the tech that worked on my car as well. He did not see any metal shavings in the IMS area and felt it was okay at this point.

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Sure would be nice to take a look at that CPO exclusion list. Glad everything worked out for you. Yeah, the CPO is great to have. I intend to drive my p car often this year to get some more miles on her before the CPO expires 2/2011.

I have the exclusions list, so I'll scan it and put up the pdf.

Love the fact that Porsche has an "Exclusions" list that is available to dealers, BUT NOT TO OWNERS!!! What is that about? Great, a warranty that has exclusions but they won't ell you wha they are. Sounds like Porsche.

Not surprised myself after they told me my coolant tank replacement was a 'wear and tear' item under CPO. Funny how it's a known problem and they used an updated part, not the same one, which is basically like admitting the original part was a faulty design. They sure couldn't tell me where in the service interval guide does it say to replace this 'wear and tear' item. What a joke..... I've never replaced a coolant tank on any vehicle and I've had multiple 150k plus cars.

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Any response on that?

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They requested pictures which I emailed them about 2 weeks ago. The sales rep has responded and been the liason, but no formal response yet. I will give them 1 more week and I'll contact them again.

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Here was their response: I received a copy of your email from your salesman. Looking at the photo details as best as possible I see oil seepage as defined by Porsche. I not do not see oil droplets leaking down, again it is difficult to determine the severity looking at the photos. When these flat engines sit/low mileage for long periods, they will seep oil. Porsche recommends to drive the vehicles for 6 weeks/600 miles, to reseal the drive train if parked for long periods. Then have the vehicle rechecked. Believe me if you had issues it would be rectified. I have not seen, or repaired any power steering leaks from the filler neck on 911 models. However I am concerned the power steering reservoir was low. I would have taken care of the concern at our dealership. I will offer 50% goodwill towards the cost of repair that you incurred at the other dealer. I will need a copy of the receipt to reimburse you. Any other concerns please do not hesitates to contact me. Thank-you

nothing wrong with that at all IMO unless you are Phil in which case 600 miles = 2 years of driving

They were professional and followed through along with offering 50%, so it worked out okay. I have no bad feelings toward the dealer whatsoever.