38 captured repliesDiscussion pagination complete · Source accounts, not a confirmed diagnosis
THIS DISCUSSION / SOURCE-DERIVED OVERVIEW
Discussion summary
YOUR RESEARCHPURCHASE INTERMEDIATE SHAFT BEARING
Leading reported evidence
Replace were easy
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
No successful repair reported for this finding.
0
Reported fixes
0
Unsuccessful attempts
1
Discussions
Read evidence and context
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I have used bearing shops for many other cars and had great success (then again the bearing I have replaced were easy to replace and did not hold a $15k hammer over my head)
Leading evidence: 'Replace were easy' (no explicit attributable resolution; this is a reported action or suggestion). Across 1 matching discussions, The most frequently discussed action is 'Recommend engine oil' (1 discussions). For that action, 0 discussions report a resolution and 0 report an unsuccessful attempt. No action has an explicit, attributable resolution report under the current rules. These are forum reports and suggestions, not a confirmed diagnosis.
Source reports, not a diagnosis or a success probability. Counts refer to discussions and can overlap.
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Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
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Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I have used bearing shops for many other cars and had great success (then again the bearing I have replaced were easy to replace and did not hold a $15k hammer over my head)
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
Discussions that contain suggestions
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Suggestion
One question, recommended engine oil after bearing replacement?
Explicit resolution reports before identified causes, performed actions and suggestions. Within each level, matching component labels precede direct query mentions and inherited thread context; successful versus unsuccessful discussion counts, owner confirmations and independent discussion support determine order. This is not a probability of success.
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Suggestion
In less than one year the bearing has gained one hell of a reputation and has "saved" no less than 20 engines from the salvage yard when used as a last chance repair after an IMS bearing failure had occurred.
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Suggestion
In less than one year the bearing has gained one hell of a reputation and has "saved" no less than 20 engines from the salvage yard when used as a last chance repair after an IMS bearing failure had occurred.
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I have used bearing shops for many other cars and had great success (then again the bearing I have replaced were easy to replace and did not hold a $15k hammer over my head)
Discussions that performed work without a confirmed outcome
1
0 original-poster resolution reports. Counts can overlap; they are not unique people or a success rate.
0 discussions have direct query context; 0 report a fix in that context. Other evidence may inherit the discussion’s subject.
Performed · outcome unconfirmed
I have used bearing shops for many other cars and had great success (then again the bearing I have replaced were easy to replace and did not hold a $15k hammer over my head)
Counts describe captured discussions, not unique people or a diagnosis. Author identities are not reliably stored. Exact duplicate evidence is counted once across matching discussions; one discussion counts at most once per action/state. Multiple repairs reported together remain a combination. Suggestions and failed attempts do not establish a fix. Matches cover whole discussions and can include related faults, model variants and incomplete threads.
38 eligible posts · 0 unverified posts · 1 discussions match the subject in their title or opening post.
Rennlist: 1 discussions
0 evidence records excluded for query context · 0 excluded by outcome qualification · 0 adjusted by outcome qualification.
0 acknowledgements have no verified action link; they do not establish a repair result.
Generation: 20261026T163944Z · outcome-qualification-6. Deterministic extraction; no AI model inference. How we use sources
OH NOH.............hmmm,
doing a rebuild and thought it would be a good idea....current bearing feels thight though. cannot find a bearing on the market except the super expenstaimune one from LN.
WELL - on the spain site there is a guy who did a "home job"
A bearing shop can help with getting "a bearing" but without the research its just a bearing. That said if you provide the current bearing number they should be able to get a replacement... I have used bearing shops for many other cars and had great success (then again the bearing I have replaced were easy to replace and did not hold a $15k hammer over my head)
You can always give it a shot - I use US Bearings and Drives & Brown's Bearing - google them
for me, the LNE part is a great choice and since they also have the "better" bolt AND the new flange and it all works together, its a no brainer.... but...............
I do have my own machining center, however, I agree that sourcing this bearing isn't really worth the trouble. I have many engine projects and no time to waste. I will do the LN thing. Between the 996 gearbox's we service and the 996 engine debacle, the factory sure has hammered us with little or no help on purpose-they really suck!
Porsche has no part number for the bearing, they will tell you and maintain that the bearing is not serviceable.
LN and I have worked on perfecting the replacement bearing, extraction procedures and tooling for the past 5 years, lots of time has gone into the development. When you buy this bearing the purchase is for much more than just the bearing unit.
Porsche holds the proprietary on all absolute replacement bearings for this application- Its not as simple as just picking up the phone and ordering a bearing. Most bearings that are sized the same as the IMS bearing are designed for inner race rotation, where in this application the outer race is the rotational component. This complicates things greatly and one would see very early on just how critical bearing design and application really are.
Its very odd for a bearing like this to have the inner race parked and the outer race in rotation.
I would just buy the kit. why?
1. the flange has a better seal and a little different design. I assume to let more oil in to the bearing. Plus I am a fan of supporting the support. I am sure they have bookoo time invested. And really, is it REALLY that much money? we are talking about a Porsche not a 350 chebby.
Although i HAVE had my fare share of head butting with Jake. They deserve the sale.
Here was my thought on going at it alone with pulling the bearing and finding one to match on my own...
Ok they fail anywhere from 5K miles to whenever??? Yours has ran for XX time THIS TIME. But you are disturbing EVERYTHING. You put a stock bearing back in with the stock flange.... its my opinion you set yoru self up for failure. Being we really don't know WHY they are failing.
Could it have been the way the bearing was broke-in the first 1000 miles?
Could it be the way the car was driven for the first 3000 miles?
Did someone dump some magic additive in the oil that saved it?
With LNE or F6I they made some changes to keep the bearing more oiled and put in a bearing that is meant to be oiled with the oil the weight of engine oil.... I think your trying to save a few bucks is plane sillyness.
The flange in the factory arrangement is less substantial, which is why we made the billet flange. Over time Porsche has changed the flange and made is stronger as well as adding more sealing surface, so they recognized part of the issue.
Certainly do as you wish, but you'll end up spending more money to do this job without the kit than you will with the kit IF you outfit the engine with the same quality (silicon nitride) bearing and the same flange strength.
I was just down talking with my indy, he was in Jakes motor rebuild class just a couple weeks ago. On the table - a motor torn down with an IMS disaster. What a mess! I held the parts in my hand and shook my head, then told my indy there should be a line of cars waiting for this retrofit. The OEM bearing has a life expectancy that is pretty short!
I will be ordering my kit soon. Praying in the meantime!
I spoke with my indy yesterday and he mentioned he had also just returned from the same M96 rebuild class. From what he understood the IMS bearing replacement would be considered a regular long-term maintenance item, even after the new bearing is installed.
I'd never post a life expectancy... It would be a blanket statement and would be based on speculation.
The materials are far superior to that of a conventional bearing, the bearing is open to unobstructed engine lubrication and has a far superior flange. I don't make blanket statements regarding any mechanical component, not an engine, not a single part. Thats generally because I make a living breaking things and I try to break at least one thing per week.
To date we have a 100% success rate for the bearings, including some that were applied to engines that were in the process of failing and were saved with the procedure and bearing. These engines had experienced oil contamination and secondary failures that were not beneficial to the replacement bearing's life but they continue to perform. The only thing thats going to prove the ability of the bearing to perform will be application, miles and actual experiences of installers. In less than one year the bearing has gained one hell of a reputation and has "saved" no less than 20 engines from the salvage yard when used as a last chance repair after an IMS bearing failure had occurred. I have personally experienced 6 engines that had bearings failing during normal preventive retrofit procedures, so thats 6 more that had imminent failure in their future that were saved. Do that math at an average engine replacement cost of 14,000.00- We kept a lot of money out of Porsche's hands.
Anyone who has ever experienced Silicon Nitride in a wear environment would never question how long the bearing will last. Thats because once exposed to the material and its characteristics you'll never forget the experience.
We are and have been since day one logging trend data from failed bearings and we are also logging vehicle info from every retrofit bearing that is applied. Logging and serializing every bearing and matching those stamped bearing flanges to both VIN and engine serial numbers will help us to in the event that we do experience a failure. It also keep people honest that were trying to sell cars that had supposedly been outfitted with the IMSR for more money; when the procedure had not been carried out.
Glad to see so many Indy's that attended the rebuild school here last week are sharing what they learned first hand. I am planning an "Understanding the IMS BEaring Failure" Seminar here over the Summer. Things are a lot different when you see piles of broken parts first hand and talk to the people who have had it happen eyeball to eyeball. (one has had TWO failures in two different cars!)
One question, recommended engine oil after bearing replacement? Is there a preference since we are adding the lubrication to the bearing?
FYI Jake, I purchased the kit today from Charles. Nice guy, we talked for quite sometime about addtional maintenance (and kids!). I think we have broken the barrier where 996 engines are now the 911SC's of past. Where enthusiasts are going in breaking these guys open and getting into the internals....WOOT!
Hmmm, then perhaps I misunderstood my mechanic - he may have meant that the
original
IMS bearing should be considered a rountine long-term maintenance item...
Thanks Jake!
And yes, holding a failed bearing and flange in my hand today will make for a bit of a sleepless night tonight. Can't wait to put those fears to rest!
With the 996 prices at the point they are now more DIY owners are buying/ owning the cars. This is the key to development and application and these people need real reference material written and offered by the people who actually work on these engines.. Working on that now.
"Other reference" material for other Porsche engines has been written by people who have never built an engine by themselves.. It reads really good and makes you all warm and fuzzy inside but at the end of the day that real questions didn't get answered.
GLAD to have opened up "yet" another discussion" on the "presumably" cheaped out 996/boxster engine design. After 40+ years in the P business, this new genereation of engine/trans is so sad! I am going the LN design way without question. Thanks to all for sharing with me this terrible situation and some partial solutions. Mark
Well put, and I agree. I also think this is when Porsche ownership gets fun. There is always that period when a Porsche is being driven by people who leased it for status points and don't really get it, and then by people who stretched a bit too far to pay for it. Once they all get shaken out of the process and move on to something else, the people who just love the cars emerge and the game becomes one of keeping them fun as long as possible.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again: The M96 engine is a long way from perfect, but it's also a long way from bad. I'm delighted to see the aftermarket getting interested in the little beast.
Sorry for the hijack. As you were...
Well, what REALLY eats me up is quite simple........After the "Fuhrmann" design boxer powerplant, evolving and morphing over 50 years! TO THIS (996). Cannot we all agree, WHAT A DISAPPOINTMENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!M sorry, got carried away
No, we cannot all agree, not if 'all' includes me. It's a Porsche. At this stage of the game, if you bought one without understanding the risks of this particular series, or that Porsche historically gets it wrong as often as it gets it right because they're cheap, stubborn and independent minded (which I mostly love about them in this day and age), then the problem is yours. (Your reference to Fuhrmann ignores the lovely but nightmarish Carrera engine, by the way).
All this dramatic pissing and moaning, year after year, about being disappointed is absolutely unproductive and subtractive to enjoying the car. Which is, IMHO, simply stupid when pleasure is the only reason to own one in the first place. I sympathize with someone who is disappointed by a dishwasher that doesn't work, but less so someone who bought a ten year old Porsche.
I know it's ad nauseam but I gotta +1 to that BruceP.
If someone wants absolute reliability they should be looking at a Toyota (whoops).
And to those who insist on worshipping older 911 engines, I ask you to take a cold hard look at pulled head studs, bad mechanical chain tensioners, worn valve guides, and secondary air injection/CEL issues which collectively plagued the air-cooled engines at different times over a span of 20 years. So sure the IMS failure is more dramatic, but that doesn't mean earlier engines were fault-free either.
If you don't have the stomach for it, just get rid of the car. And if you can't do so because it's now broken, a quick browse of this forum prior to purchase would have been enough of a forewarning .
